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Quote (IM4Truth @ Aug. 03 2007,20:15) not 3in1 do not remember you explaining to Nick what you think these scriptures mean. Would appreciate if you would do so again.
Gen.1:26
Col.1:15
Col. 1:18
Rev.3:1
Thank and Peace Mrs.IM4Truth
Sure. I'll have time next week to give you a more thorough answer because the kids will be at camp!Gen. Just because we say that Jesus created everything does not mean that I worship Jesus. I would never rob Our Heavenly Father His rightful Place being above us all. It is the Father who I pray to in Christ Jesus name because He is our mediator.
But back to your Post, I don't quit understand what you mean, you say:”The Spirit of God is the true Witness Jesus.”
But do you believe that?
God's Holy spirit is in every believer, in measure.
God's Holy spirit was also in Jesus in fullness and it was the Father who created the Son first, who the Apostle John referred to as the Word.
It was through His Son that God created all things. (scriptures already given)
It was the Word/Son who became flesh.
It was the Son who was the True Witness and who revealed to us the Father. After His dead and resurrection the Apostles continued to Witness for Christ and the Father by the power of His Holy Spirit.
Rev. 3:14 The Spirit of God is speaking about His Son. That is what I believe. I am not taking anything away from the Father by saying or believing that, on the contrary, I give all Honor and Glory to the Father like Jesus did. I just can't deny that anymore, I did for a long time.
Always in Love and Peace to you my Brother Gen.
Mrs.IM4TruthMat 11:24 But4133 I say3004 unto you,5213 That3754 it shall be2071 more tolerable414 for the land1093 of Sodom,4670 in1722 the day2250 of judgment,2920 than2228 for thee.4671
Mat 11:25 At1722 that1565 time2540 Jesus2424 answered611 and said,2036 I thank1843 thee,4671 O Father,3962 Lord2962 of heaven3772 and2532 earth,1093 because3754 thou hast hid613 these things5023 from575 the wise4680 and2532 prudent,4908 and2532 hast revealed601 them846 unto babes.3516
Mat 11:26 Even so,3483 Father:3962 for3754 so3779 it seemed1096 good2107 in thy sight.1715, 4675
Mat 11:27 All things3956 are delivered3860 unto me3427 of5259 my3450 Father:3962 and2532 no man3762 knoweth1921 the3588 Son,5207 but1508 the3588 Father;3962 neither3761 knoweth1921 any man5100 the3588 Father,3962 save1508 the3588 Son,5207 and2532 he to whomsoever3739, 1437 the3588 Son5207 will1014 reveal601 him.1Th 5:1 But1161 of4012 the3588 times5550 and2532 the3588 seasons,2540 brethren,80 ye have2192 no3756 need5532 that I write1125 unto you.5213
1Th 5:2 For1063 yourselves846 know1492 perfectly199 that3754 the3588 day2250 of the Lord2962 so3779 cometh2064 as5613 a thief2812 in1722 the night.3571
1Th 5:3 For1063 when3752 they shall say,3004 Peace1515 and2532 safety;803 then5119 sudden160 destruction3639 cometh upon2186 them,846 as5618 travail5604 upon a woman with child;2192, 1722, 1064 and2532 they shall not3364 escape.1628
1Th 5:4 But1161 ye,5210 brethren,80 are2075 not3756 in1722 darkness,4655 that2443 that day2250 should overtake2638 you5209 as5613 a thief.2812
1Th 5:5 Ye5210 are2075 all3956 the children5207 of light,5457 and2532 the children5207 of the day:2250 we are2070 not3756 of the night,3571 nor3761 of darkness.4655
1Th 5:6 Therefore686, 3767 let us not3361 sleep,2518 as5613 do(2532) others;3062 but235 let us watch1127 and2532 be sober.3525
1Th 5:7 For1063 they that sleep2518 sleep2518 in the night;3571 and2532 they that be drunken3182 are drunken3184 in the night.3571
1Th 5:8 But1161 let us,2249 who are5607 of the day,2250 be sober,3525 putting on1746 the breastplate2382 of faith4102 and2532 love;26 and2532 for a helmet,4030 the hope1680 of salvation.4991
1Th 5:9 For3754 God2316 hath not3756 appointed5087 us2248 to1519 wrath,3709 but235 to obtain1519, 4047 salvation4991 by1223 our2257 Lord2962 Jesus2424 Christ,5547
1Th 5:10 Who died599 for5228 us,2257 that,2443 whether1535 we wake1127 or1535 sleep,2518 we should live2198 together260 with4862 him.846Live in the dark, if you so choose. I am not in the dark.
to all…..I ask a question whats so hard to see Jesus as a person Just like us with the same limitations as us. Why are some here always putting Him as a preexistant being, a deity, a creator of the world, and the rock that followed the childern in the wilderness, the answer is because there is a gross mistranslation of our modern text and if you can't see Jesus as a simple human being like you and me that The Father preplaned and broght forth at the right time to do the things he did you are not fully seeing God The Father as the one behind all things that Jesus did and not giving God the Glory . Jesus said he could do nothing by himself and he gave God all the glory that was done. Most all the disagreement i have seen here are the result of mistranslations of the texts brought on by trinitarian translators forcing the text to push Jesus deity.
Gene,
I agree and disagree. I agree that Y'shua was born a man as we are, to deny that is to deny my salvation. I agree that Y'shua was preplanned and came just at the right time and at the right place.What I disagree with you on is why you don't believe those words that came from your own mouth. Preplanned means that in YHWH's Spirit Y'shua existed before He was born.
The Old Testament Torah and Prophets existed before Y'shua was made flesh and yet the Torah and Prophets show us that in Spirit Y'shua existed even before He was born.
I am on your side here Gene, I just want you to see that in a sense He did exist before He was born, and in your own words He was “preplanned”.
Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 04 2007,17:39) Gene,
I agree and disagree. I agree that Y'shua was born a man as we are, to deny that is to deny my salvation. I agree that Y'shua was preplanned and came just at the right time and at the right place.What I disagree with you on is why you don't believe those words that came from your own mouth. Preplanned means that in YHWH's Spirit Y'shua existed before He was born.
The Old Testament Torah and Prophets existed before Y'shua was made flesh and yet the Torah and Prophets show us that in Spirit Y'shua existed even before He was born.
I am on your side here Gene, I just want you to see that in a sense He did exist before He was born, and in your own words He was “preplanned”.
Laurel……> Yes Jesus was preordained and was Manifested in our time just like Peter Said. The word preordained means to me he was a forthought of God's plan for mankind, but did not actually exist until he was Manifested or brought into existence by The Father at the right time.and by the way…..good Sabbath to you…..gene
Do we agree then that He existed Spiritually? I believe that it can be then they He existed as the Word which Scripture teaches is the Set-apart Spirit.
This makes Scripture ring with truth, when you here that in the beginning was the word, the word was with Elohim, the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us.
It also makes Scripture ring with truth when you here that “by Y'shua” nothing came to be that came to be. Because although Y'shua had not been born yet, Elohim knew how many hairs were on His head as if He was already, and all Scripture “the Word” points to Y'shua Messiah, as the only way to the Father.
Laurel;
The word was made flesh in Jesus Christ, but Christ is not the Word made flesh. The Word represents the truth that came by Christ which he received from the Father. Christ said the words he spoke were the Father's word. The teaching or doctrine did not belong to Christ, but to the Father who sent him. Christ was emphatic on this issue. In I John, it reads “…of the word of life.” Christ was begotten by God by his Word. Why is the Word so important? God said I have magnified my Word above all my name. God's word or doctrine is powerful. That is why we need to understand it, so we can grow up to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.
Mr. Steve, Your enmity for the trinitarian is so great that you are blind to the truth. Step out of your self and see from a higher vantage point. YHWH Created all by the Son. The Son was there with Him before creation. Our amazingly unfathomably intelligent Father knew before anything was made that we would be in need of a Savior. Why can you not see His plan?
Laurel;
You evidently haven't read many of my posts. You allege that I deny the pre-existence of Jesus Christ. On the contrary, Jesus was with the Father in the beginning, even before the foundation of the world. John 17
In Hebrews 1:2, Paul said God made the worlds by Christ. I absolutely believe in Christ and his pre-existence with his Father before coming down from heaven.Take Care
Steven
Dear IMforTruth;
If you are a disciple of Christ you must worship Christ. After Christ was raised from the dead the Bible says the disciples worshipped him. Christ is the Saviour of the world. A saviour is to be worshipped. You'll find many cases in the new testament where people worshipped Christ as Lord.
Gene Balthrop;
Christ specifically stated that he was with the Father before the world was. Thus, the Father Son relationship was pre-existent. The Father pre-ordained us in Christ. The difference between us and Christ in our earthly walk is that before we came to Christ God knew us, but we did not know God. When Christ came he said he knew the Father, not just that the Father knew him.
Mr Steve,
It is impossible to believe that Y'shua pre-existed if you say He was not the Word made flesh. I say this because Y'shua Messiah was alive and well in the hearts of the believers, before He was born, through the Word. The Word is not simply some letters written on paper it is how the people of Elohim lived. They lived in the Word, as I do today.Laurel;
Before Christ (on earth) the jews followed the law. Jesus addressed your question though. He said there has never been a greater prophet than John the Baptist, but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than John. What was Christ saying? As believers in Christ we have something that the believers in God before Christ did not have-The Spirit of God in our hearts. We fulfill in Christ the prophecy of Ezekiel in Christ which states that God would take out our stoney hearts and give us a heart of flesh. Hearts that could receive the spirit of God. The Bible says that we have been born again by the incorruptible seed of the word of God. God's word is eternal, but it did not abide in the hearts of believers until Christ. God's word will never pass away. In other words, the truth we see now in Christ has always been the truth and will always be the truth in the world to come.
Y'shua said until John. Now after John, He is; and He is greater that John, because He is lesser. This has to be looked at from the Jewish perspective that John was the son of the High Priest Zacheriah. The jews thought that John was greater than Y'shua because of his earthly position. Some Jews even thought the John was the Messiah.
May I ask then since you say that God's Word did not live in the hearts of men before Messiah, How was Scripture written? According to your belief, Scripture could not have been inspired by Elohim, so then I guess by what you teach, men must have come up with it on their own.
The Spirit was given to a chosen few Levitical priests. A remnant has always existed from Adam
Think about what you are saying, and test it against other Scripture.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 05 2007,08:54) Gene Balthrop; Christ specifically stated that he was with the Father before the world was. Thus, the Father Son relationship was pre-existent. The Father pre-ordained us in Christ. The difference between us and Christ in our earthly walk is that before we came to Christ God knew us, but we did not know God. When Christ came he said he knew the Father, not just that the Father knew him.
Mr. STeve…..> no where did Jesus say he know the Father before He came into the world as far as I Know.
Secondly In Hebrews where it say's God created all things by Christ, that is a mistranslation. Notice it does not say God created all things through or by (Jesus Christ) it say's by Christ, there is a difference, had the writter meant Jesus he would have us Jesus in the text, But the writter Meant the Christo's or Spirit, Just as it say's in Genesis ” the Spirit of God moved over the waters and God said let there be.,Not Jesus said. thats the way I see it….gene
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