Preexistence

[Ed J]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 24 2011,05:28)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,04:47) Hi Frank, You have made it abundantly clear that you do not believe in any pre-existence. But there are many other points that get discussed on this and other threads. Besides the only threads that you seem to post on are similar to this thread. Sorry if my asking you questions seems to bother you, but I cannot extrapolate what you believe through the words others. Perhaps it is only me that has this difficulty? God bless Ed J Ed J, Your asking questions of me does not bother me in the least. I will never post anything from someone elses article that I do not agree with. In fact, I believe that there was one point the author made in the last article that I excerpted from that I did not agree with. This is why I had only made an excerpt from the article in part. I am sure that you are aware that Yahshua did not speak his own words, but that he spoke the words that his and our Father Yahweh instructed him to speak, right?

Hi Frank, of course.

“I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me
a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.” (John 12:4)

“the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but
the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.” (John 14:10)

“For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God:
for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.” (John 3:34)

“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,
they are the sons of God.” (Romans 8:14)

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,05:56)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 24 2011,05:28) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,04:47) Hi Frank, You have made it abundantly clear that you do not believe in any pre-existence. But there are many other points that get discussed on this and other threads. Besides the only threads that you seem to post on are similar to this thread. Sorry if my asking you questions seems to bother you, but I cannot extrapolate what you believe through the words others. Perhaps it is only me that has this difficulty? God bless Ed J Ed J, Your asking questions of me does not bother me in the least. I will never post anything from someone elses article that I do not agree with. In fact, I believe that there was one point the author made in the last article that I excerpted from that I did not agree with. This is why I had only made an excerpt from the article in part. I am sure that you are aware that Yahshua did not speak his own words, but that he spoke the words that his and our Father Yahweh instructed him to speak, right? Hi Frank, of course. “I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.” (John 12:4) “the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.” (John 14:10) “For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.” (John 3:34) “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.” (Romans 8:14) Your brother in Christ, Jesus. Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode

Ed J,

I figured that you were aware!

[Pastry]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 21 2011,13:59)

Quote (Pastry @ Dec. 21 2011,13:50) Quote NOWHERE in Scripture does it EVER SAY “The Word of God is Jesus Christ.” Frank, who is the only begotten of the Father? Irene Pastry, Yahshua is the only begotten and in turn the “first begotten” from the dead! And from Yahshua Messiah, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, … (Revelation 1:5). Yahshua is the first begotten son from the dead of many sons!

according to John 1:14 it is The Word of God, or do you not believe that Scripture……

Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.  

Also the firstborn of all creation is not only the firstborn of the dead…

Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:  

Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:  

He is not only the firstborn of all creation, but also the beginning of the creation of God….
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;  

and then it says this

Col 1:18   And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
meaning that He was first in all…. 

He is both…firstborn of all creation and firstborn from the dead… how else could Almighty God use The Word of God to create all… Jesus who was in the beginning The Word of God also has the tilt of KING OF KINGFS AND LORD OF LORDS… besides The Word of God And Jesus, it is all the same person and thos Scriptures prove it..

Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.  

Rev 19:12   His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.  

Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  

Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  

Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  

Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.  

There is not another being that fits this description….Irene

[Ed J]

Hi Irene, I have explained these verses plenty of times,
but look directly at why “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”…

           Rev.19:11-21 Compares to Isaiah 63:2-10…

                      “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”!    
                        And “HolySpirit” is HE and I !                
                 
Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood.
Isaiah 63:3 Their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments

Revelation 19:15 He treadeth the winepress
Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone

Rev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God.
Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit within

                     But they rebelled, and vexed
                     his HolySpirit: therefore he
                     was turned to be their enemy,
                     and he fought against them.

Isaiah 63:10 I will tread down the people in mine anger  
          …and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
Revelation 19:15 Out of His mouth goeth (The Word) a sharp sword,
                              that with it He should smite the nations.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,05:56)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 24 2011,05:28) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,04:47) Hi Frank, You have made it abundantly clear that you do not believe in any pre-existence. But there are many other points that get discussed on this and other threads. Besides the only threads that you seem to post on are similar to this thread. Sorry if my asking you questions seems to bother you, but I cannot extrapolate what you believe through the words others. Perhaps it is only me that has this difficulty? God bless Ed J Ed J, Your asking questions of me does not bother me in the least. I will never post anything from someone elses article that I do not agree with. In fact, I believe that there was one point the author made in the last article that I excerpted from that I did not agree with. This is why I had only made an excerpt from the article in part. I am sure that you are aware that Yahshua did not speak his own words, but that he spoke the words that his and our Father Yahweh instructed him to speak, right? Hi Frank, of course. “I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.” (John 12:4) “the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.” (John 14:10) “For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.” (John 3:34) “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.” (Romans 8:14) Your brother in Christ, Jesus. Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode

Frank and EDJ…………Problem they really do not truly believe What Jesus himself said, “the words that I speak unto you I speak not of (or from) myself; but the Father that (DWELLS IN ME), he does the works.”

They simply do not believe that it is possible for God to be (IN) a Person becasue they do not know what Spirit really is. so the concept of God dwelling (IN) a Person is foreign to them. So they turn and try to make JESUS the LOGOS that was (IN) HIM>

Thank God there is a FEW who do understand it>IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,15:12)

Hi Irene, I have explained these verses plenty of times, but look directly at why “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”…            Rev.19:11-21 Compares to Isaiah 63:2-10…                       “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”!                             And “HolySpirit” is HE and I !                                   Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood. Isaiah 63:3 Their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments Revelation 19:15 He treadeth the winepress Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone Rev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God. Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit within                      But they rebelled, and vexed                      his HolySpirit: therefore he                      was turned to be their enemy,                      and he fought against them. Isaiah 63:10 I will tread down the people in mine anger             …and I will bring down their strength to the earth. Revelation 19:15 Out of His mouth goeth (The Word) a sharp sword,                               that with it He should smite the nations. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Irene,

(His of Rev.19:15 refers to the Rider on the white horse, which is the HolySpirit)
Confirmed in Eph.6:17:  …”the sword of the [HolySpirit], which is the word of God:”
But they rebelled, and vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he(the rider on the white horse)
was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them (the sword out of his mouth). (Isaiah 63:10)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Pastry]

Ed, I have said to you also before that the one who sits on the white Horse is Jesus Christ, the only begotten of the Father… since I said to you all this before too, I am not going to go on into it again, just like Gene you are set in what your believe….The Holy Spirit doe not have a garment on dipped in blood it is Jesus who died for you and me….. And that my friend is what is true…besides I was talking to Frank… Irene

[GeneBalthrop]

Irene………..Indeed it was Jesus who following the HOLY SPIRIT or LOGOS that was (IN) HIM in complete OBEDIENCE to that WILL of GOD , became obedient unto death and fulfilled the WILL of God who was (IN) HIM> So we honor Jesus to the GLORY of GOD the FATHER, because it was GOD (IN) Christ reconciling the World unto HIMSELF> But you preexistences say it was Jesus doing the works and Jesus is the LOGOS when in fact that simply is not true . You give the Glory GOD was doing to the Man Jesus as if he was the one doing the WORKS when in fact it was the Father doing it. That is all you have to do is believe believe the FATHER was TRULY (IN) Christ Jesus and many scriptures will fall in place for you. Jesus PLAINLY said he could do (NOTHING) by himself. When are you people going to start to believe what HE SAID?. IMO

peace and love to you and Georg…………………………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Okay, what's the score here?

To my knowledge, Ed is the ONLY one on this site that doesn't recognize the Word of God in Rev 19:13 as Jesus Christ.

Is this correct? Frank, do you believe Rev 19:13 describes Jesus? Gene? Do you?

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike as i and we have said many many time that is a Title not an actual thing , Jesus is called that because God the Father who is the LOGOS was and does speak “THROUGH” HIM. But that does not make him the one speaking “THROUGH HIM Simple as that. O an by the way, Frank and Ed J, Marty, Chosenone, Martian , Paladin, not3in1, shimmer, Jodi Lee, Kerwin, Astiri, Kajion, and others who have come and gone do also. So yes we do believe Rev 19:13 is a title given to Jesus , Just like a bird is said to be an airplane , but is it really a bird, well to you it seem it is. IMO

peace and love

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 25 2011,12:25)

Mike as i and we have said many many time that is a Title not an actual thing , Jesus is called that because God the Father who is the LOGOS was and does speak “THROUGH” HIM. But that does not make him the one speaking “THROUGH HIM Simple as that. O an by the way, Frank and Ed J, Marty, Chosenone, Martian , Paladin, not3in1, shimmer, Jodi Lee, Kerwin, Astiri, Kajion, and others who have come and gone do also. So yes we do believe Rev 19:13 is a title given to Jesus , Just like a bird is said to be an airplane , but is it really a bird, well to you it seem it is. IMO peace and love

Rev 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his NAME is the Word of God.

can't believe in scriptures ,no Angel,and not the holy spirit,

so where are you standing ??gene

[Proclaimer]

OK,Gene, if the Word of God is a Title for Jesus, just as son of God is, then that equally opens the possibility from what you say, that the Word that was WITH God is Jesus before he came as a man, (and before creation was brought into existence), and might I add, through him as it is written.

So the Word that was WITH him could certainly be a title and not an attribute because it is also preceded with the definite article which is something I don't think you have ever addressed.

In addition to that, if the Word of God was WITH God, and all things that came into existence were spoken through or by the Logos, then that totally agrees with the verses where God made all things through or by Christ, and please note that it says ALL things.

Your doctrine ignores all that evidence and just sticks to your narrow view regardless of the facts.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 24 2011,12:25)

So yes we do believe Rev 19:13 is a title given to Jesus…..

Thank you Gene. Frank? Are you hip to this?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 25 2011,07:23)

OK,Gene, if the Word of God is a Title for Jesus, just as son of God is, then that equally opens the possibility from what you say, that the Word that was WITH God is Jesus before he came as a man, (and before creation was brought into existence), and might I add, through him as it is written. So the Word that was WITH him could certainly be a title and not an attribute because it is also preceded with the definite article which is something I don't think you have ever addressed. In addition to that, if the Word of God was WITH God, and all things that came into existence were spoken through or by the Logos, then that totally agrees with the verses where God made all things through or by Christ, and please note that it says ALL things. Your doctrine ignores all that evidence and just sticks to your narrow view regardless of the facts.

T8………The word was “WITH” Him by being  (IN) HIM> that is what Jesus meant when he said the FATHER WAS (IN) HIM> You still do not truly believe what Jesus said it seems t8. God the FATHER who (IS) SPIRIT was (IN) Jesus the MAN. and this is how the Word became Flesh (IT) the WORD or LOGOS which was GOD was (IN) Jesus the Flesh Man. Mone of that make Jesus the word or LOGOS that was with him by being (IN) HIM now does it. Why don't you believe Jesus when he said the word were not his, and he could do nothing of his self.  Put it together T8 by what Jesus himself said.

1 John 4:13…….Hereby know we that we dwell (IN) him, and he (IN) us, because he hath given us of (HIS) SPIRIT.  

That Spirit is with us because (IT) is (IN) US. and will remain with with us for ever Jesus told us. Just that simple .

God was reconciling the World to himself (IN) the Man Jesus Christ.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

T8……….You speak of the Definite article (The) as in “the Word of GOD”, that is right , “the Word of God” is  more the just an attribute or part of GOD, it (IS) the very expression of all of GOD himself, it represents all that God is , Just as your Words represent all you are, in the very same way, your words are not attributes, they are YOU. They (words) proceed out from your heart your total being. They contain all your attributes because they are expression of your mind and heart.  Your word brother are all of who you are Just as God words are all of who God is, they are one and the same thing. They are spirit and life. Jesus tells us.

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………gene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 25 2011,05:25)

Mike as i and we have said many many time that is a Title not an actual thing , Jesus is  called that because God the Father who is the LOGOS was and does speak “THROUGH” HIM. But that does not make him the one speaking “THROUGH HIM Simple as that. O an by the way, Frank and Ed J, Marty, Chosenone, Martian , Paladin, not3in1, shimmer, Jodi Lee, Kerwin, Astiri, Kajion, and others who have come and gone do also. So yes we do believe Rev 19:13 is a title given to Jesus , Just like a bird is said to be an airplane , but is it really a bird, well to you it seem it is. IMO peace and love

Gene,

Biblically a title is indeed an actual thing. Your explanation can be used against you. In Isaiah 44:6 Jehovah is called by the title “GOEL” or blood relative redeemer. So by your own standard Jehovah as you define Him is NOT Israel's blood relative redeemer.

If Jehovah as you define Him is not Israel's blood relative, then who is the Jehovah that is Israel's blood relative?

It doesn't take a degree in rocket science my friend.

Also, who cares about the list of uneducated novices you give in support of your conclusions?

KJ

[GeneBalthrop]

KJ……> hi brother, lets look at what you claim as Jehovah saying he is a Blood relative redeemer.

Isa 44:6……> Thus saith the LORD the King of ISREAL, and His (Isreal's) redeemer the LORD of Hosts; I am the first and i am the Last besides me there is (NO) GOD.

Now exactly where do you see any mention of a Kinsman “blood” related redeemer there, JK we are told in scripture that “that God is (NOT) a Man the he should lie nor a “Son of Man” that he should repent” Now Jesus said 80 times He was a “SON of MAN”.  God redeemed Us through the Blood of our Kinsman Redeemer and that Kinsman redeemer was a SON of MAN , known as Jesus the Anointed one . KJ you talk about the uneducated novice i used, so where on earth did you get that information you just posted it surely could not have been from any “truly Educated” source. IMO

I still love you and yours brother…………………………………………………………..gene

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 25 2011,16:03)

T8……….You speak of the Definite article (The) as in “the Word of GOD”, that is right , “the Word of God” is  more the just an attribute or part of GOD, it (IS) the very expression of all of GOD himself, it represents all that God is , Just as your Words represent all you are, in the very same way, your words are not attributes, they are YOU. They (words) proceed out from your heart your total being. They contain all your attributes because they are expression of your mind and heart.  Your word brother are all of who you are Just as God words are all of who God is, they are one and the same thing. They are spirit and life. Jesus tells us. peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………gene

Hi Gene,

Bible truth is sometimes hard to grasp, here's another verse…
Matt 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified,
and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 25 2011,16:03)

T8……….You speak of the Definite article (The) as in “the Word of GOD”, that is right , “the Word of God” is  more the just an attribute or part of GOD, it (IS) the very expression of all of GOD himself, it represents all that God is , Just as your Words represent all you are, in the very same way, your words are not attributes, they are YOU. They (words) proceed out from your heart your total being. They contain all your attributes because they are expression of your mind and heart.  Your word brother are all of who you are Just as God words are all of who God is, they are one and the same thing. They are spirit and life. Jesus tells us. peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………gene

An expression that is not the person, and image, and anything WITH God is not God himself.

So the very expression and full image was WITH God.

Jesus is the full expression of God. He is the image of God.
He was WITH God, and returned to the glory he had WITH God before the world began.

Thank you for your support Gene.

If we want to know what the unseen Almighty God is like, we look to Jesus Christ, who is the full and complete expression of himself.

Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

[Pastry]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 25 2011,00:56)

Irene………..Indeed it was Jesus who following the HOLY SPIRIT or LOGOS that was (IN) HIM in complete OBEDIENCE to that WILL of GOD , became obedient unto death and fulfilled the WILL of God who was (IN) HIM> So we honor Jesus to the GLORY of GOD the FATHER, because it was GOD (IN) Christ reconciling the World unto HIMSELF>  But you preexistences say it was Jesus doing the works and Jesus is the LOGOS when in fact that simply is not true . You give the Glory GOD was doing to the Man Jesus as if he was the one doing the WORKS when in fact it was the Father doing it. That is all you have to do is believe believe the FATHER was TRULY (IN) Christ Jesus  and many scriptures will fall in place for you. Jesus PLAINLY said he could do (NOTHING) by himself. When are you people going to start to believe what HE SAID?. IMO peace and love to you and Georg…………………………………………gene

Gene! So Gene when He comes again with the wrath of God as THE WORD OF GOD, He is not what He was before? It is Jehovah God? I said many times that God, The Word of God, King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and LORD are titles, but does that take away that He was a being? Or that He is a being now and will come back as a being? Yes, is my answer…. and you my friend need to reconsider… if you don't do it now, I know, you will have to do it when He returns….that is all I am going to say to you…BTW I was addressing this to Ed…Ed? Peace Irene

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