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Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 21 2011,13:30) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,13:12) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 21 2011,11:12) t8, I tested what you refer to as “iron” and found that it was nothing but pot metal
Thanks. Pot metal is quick and easy to cast, where as you seem to be made of stone and cannot change shape when required.
A normal conversation in anyone's language consists of two or more people in dialogue.
Do you always shout or have one way conversations with people and then try to insult people when they want to converse rather than be shouted or dictated at?
That is your manner online and if that is how you communicate like that in every day life, then I suggest going on a course or some kind of therapy to find out the route cause.
t8,Iron will break pot metal into pieces, not sharpen it! I am iron clad in what I believe and it breaks your pot metal belief into insignificant little pieces!
Hi Frank,Not if you don't use “YOUR” SWORD it won't.
Posting 'propaganda material' is a waste of your time!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 21 2011,13:34) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2011,13:25) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 21 2011,20:20) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2011,13:02) frank Quote These expressions show conclusively that the apostle did not mean, by his use of the term, that Jesus pre-existed. why you do not go and get an excerpt from one who accept the preexistence of Christ you really don”t know what to believe right ??Pierre
Pierre,Why would I promote an article by someone who believes that the Messiah pre-existed his birth when I myself do not believe such bull?
Yes, I do know what it is that I believe and I certainly do not believe the Messiah pre-existed his birth as an actual being! I believe that Yahshua was born (came into existence) as a man and di not pre-exist his birth as an “angel” or a “god”. I believe that Yahshua had the same origin as all other men. We certainly did not pre-exist our birth!
frankwe are not equal to Christ ,or are you ??
if he was a men like us ,then he would born under the curse of sin,and could not save anyone never mind himself,
Pierre
Pierre,I guess that you are not aware that the Messiah said that he was a man then, right? You also must not be aware that the so-called “New Testament” teaches that Yahshua had the same origin as his brethren, right?
Hi Frank,Who, do you believe, was Jesus' Father?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 21 2011,13:39) Pastry, NOWHERE in Scripture does it EVER SAY “The Word of God is Jesus Christ.”
Hi Frank,The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.
They do always seem to ignore this important point! (Col.2:22)Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 22 2011,01:56) Terricca…………Tell us why do you have to flop all around from one translation to another to try to prove your points, another thing i noticed NOT ONE ORIGINAL TESTAMENT WORD to BACK UP YOUR mix match translations. Using translation that TRINITARIANS and PREEXISTENCES translate is hardly any proof. Paul told us to compare all said to the ORIGINAL SCRIPTURES which you people seem able to do, Why is that Pierre? Where is ONE SCRIPTURE that Say Jesus existed as a LIVING BEING before his berth on this earth. Or just tell us what his man was , or where did Jesus say He as a real being was Existed before Abraham forcing the text to say what in fact it is not saying is hardly Proof of a Preexisting Jesus as a Sentinel “BEING” . Not only that but You are mixing up GOD the FATHER SPEAKING “THROUGH” Jesus with the MAN JESUS. And what about where GOD said “THIS DAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU” , which in your false understanding would have been a lif because according to you Preexistences He was his So from the very beginning of creation, So the Word of GOD has a contradiction according to you dogmas. I could list all kinds of scriptures from the ORIGINAL TESTAMENT and HAVE before that Show JESUS was a Prophesied HUMAN BEING that was the offspring of King David, and was Born in life from an Israelite decedent. I can think of many scriptures that has been posted here for all of you but you Preexistence choose to just ignore them and you would think that Jesus calling himself a SON of MAN 80 or so times would mean something to you all. You can't even produce ONE good reason why GOD would even “MORPH” Any Angel in the first Place , Scripture say that sin interred into the World by man and by man it was Expatiated, no where does it say it was by a MORPHED ANGEL. Scripture says Jesus was the “SECOND ADAM” nothing more or nothing less.
You preexistences, are in great danger because your work is to separated Jesus from our exact Identity, and turn him into a different being other that a man Just as we are. your work of SEPARATION is not of GOD, but pagan traditions You turn Jesus into an Idol which you worship and idolize, and as a result your are turning the IMAGE of JESUS into the MAN of SIN mentioned in 2 Ths 2, not even realizing what you are doing by those false teachings of Preexistences , Preexistences are no different the the trinitarians except they say Jesus was a GOD and YOU a Angel. But both of you are wrong Jesus was not a God nor a “MORPHED” ANGEL, both of your teachings SEPARATE Jesus from our exact IDENTITY> God was dealing with his HUMAN CREATION BY and THROUGH HIS HUMAN CREATION nothing more and nothing less.
The Trinitarians are in fact at least able to SEE GOD (IN) JESUS While you Non Trinitarian Preexistence cant even see that GOD was truly Present (IN) HIM> So i would say they are closer to the truth then you people are. But both you and them are in error, because Jesus was not a GOD nor a “MORPHED” Angel either.
peace and love…………………………………………………gene
Hi Gene,A lot of people play the game of what translation best fits there perceptions of truth.
BD does this as well with versions of his 'book of fraud',
as well as the 40 or so English versions of the bible.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ Dec. 22 2011,07:11) - Jesus is called, “the Word of God”.John 1
Hi T8,Not in John, only in the teachings of the systems of religion and the traditions of men!
Non-truth will NEVER be established as true “Bible truth”!
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecodeQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 21 2011,13:39) Pastry, NOWHERE in Scripture does it EVER SAY “The Word of God is Jesus Christ.”
Do you consider the Book of Revelation to be a fraud then, because it says:Revelation 19:13
King James Version (KJV)
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.Revelation 19:13
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.Revelation 19:13
New International Version (NIV)
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.Hi T8,
I realize you pose this question to Frank, but I will answer here instead.
“The Word” is the “HolySpirit” (Link)“The Word” is the “HolySpirit”!
And “HolySpirit” is HE and I !
Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood.
Isaiah 63:3 Their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garmentsRevelation 19:15 He treadeth the winepress
Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress aloneRev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God.
Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit withinBut they rebelled, and vexed
his HolySpirit: therefore he
was turned to be their enemy,
and he fought against them.Isaiah 63:10 I will tread down the people in mine anger
…and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
Revelation 19:15 Out of His mouth goeth (The Word) a sharp sword,
that with it He should smite the nations.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 20 2011,17:55) No, you have not shown me where I am wrong in accordance with what Scripture teaches. I know that you can not, is why I have no desire whatsoever to discuss anything with you concerning what Scripture truly teaches.
“Mike,I welcome someone showing me where I am wrong in accordance with what Scripture truly teaches so that I cold correct such a wrong, but you have yet to do so!
I am certainly for reproof and correction!”
Hmmm…………what you said in the quote box seems to differ from the blue words above that you posted earlier.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 20 2011,18:00) The truth is, your irritation comes from within yourself and has nothing whatsoever to do with me
No,I'm quite sure it comes from people like you who post “stock answers” that don't even address the points we've made, instead of actually being man enough to refute the things we say using the scriptures and YOUR OWN words.
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 21 2011,11:14) Therefore it is necessary to put “any belief” in one's own words to carry on a viable conversation.
We agree on this, Ed.Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 21 2011,14:34) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 21 2011,13:04) Frank4Yahweh ………You have posted the absolute TRUTH regarding Jesus as the firstBORN in Position from among human kind. I see it the exact same way……….
Hi Gene,How can any of us see, if Frank doesn't post his own words?
Why don't you tell us specifically what it is that you agree with,
if YOU truly want to help? Or else WHO CARES what you agree with!Your friend,
Ed J
Once again, we are in agreement, Ed.Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 21 2011,16:32) “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”
And just like that, we are back to disagreeing, Ed.Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,02:52) Pierre, apparently these are all translated wrong, well according to Frank and Gene. The oldest trick in the book is to say that it is wrong because it is all mistranslated.
As is evidenced by these following words from one of the dudes Frank likes to copy:Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 20 2011,19:00) At this point the reader might become a little impatient, and desire to press upon our attention Bible references that seem to give some support to the pre-existence theory. We are not ignorant of those passages, but claim that none of them give support to the theory if they are properly interpreted.
Frank, I never received an answer from you to my question. Are you ready to defend your beliefs against Pierre, t8, Irene, and me……………IN YOUR OWN WORDS? Are you even CAPABLE?
The answer is either “Yes, let's do it”, or “No, I'm afraid”.
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 22 2011,17:11) 
EDJWhy are you question this ,you know that Mike and me do not believe that the holy spirit his the word,
This believe of yours will prevent you to understand deeper thing in scriptures,
Pierre
1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,Titus 1:9
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.2Titus 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.1 Thessalonians 5:21
test everything; hold fast what is good.2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.Frank, are you listening?
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2011,10:30) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 22 2011,17:11)
EDJWhy are you question this ,you know that Mike and me do not believe that the holy spirit his the word,
This believe of yours will prevent you to understand deeper thing in scriptures,
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Like what?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ Dec. 22 2011,07:11) I John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
T8……….Maybe this will help you being you quoted it.! John 1:1-3………> I will paraphrase it for you and please notice what i put in Quotations marks.
That which was from “THE” beginning which we have “HEARD”, which we have Seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the “WORD” of LIFE.- 2 and the “LIFE” was made manifest, (IN) Jesus Christ, (now notice T8) and we have seen “IT”, and testify to “IT” and proclaim to you (THE) ETERNAL LIFE, which was “WITH” the FATHER and was made manifest “TO US” (IN) Christ Jesus- 3 that which we have seen and “HEARD” we proclaim “ALSO” to you, So that you too, may have fellowship is with the FATHER (AND) with his Son Jesus Christ. Who GOD the FATHER who is the WORD that was (IN) the MAN Jesus.
T8 notice the “IT”S there , John did not say He or Jesus now did he?, The “IT” is the WORD of GOD that was (IN) the man Jesus . Remember when Jesus said the WORDS i am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT (AND) LIFE> The Word or LOGOS which was God the FATHER was (IN) Jesus and the disciples understood that, That is the “IT” John was talking about there not Jesus as the “IT”. But the LOGOS that came to be (IN) the Flesh man Jesus. Another point is Jesus was Not from “THE” BEGINNING, GOD the FATHER was FROM the BEGINNING T8, Not Jesus.
Forcing the text to say what in fact it is not truly saying is wrong T8. Reread it closely as see if what i am telling you is true or not brother. I know it goes against you preconceived learning and past teachings but look at it honestly and without being prejudiced. brother. T8 just believe what Jesus said many time “THE FATHER IS (IN) ME” , you have yet not come to see and believe that . IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene
Hi Gene,
2 Cor 5:18-19 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,
and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us The Word(HolySpirit) of reconciliation.1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but
of incorruptible (Luke 8:11), by the word of God,
which liveth and abideth for ever.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 22 2011,13:52) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 22 2011,07:11) I John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
T8……….Maybe this will help you being you quoted it.! John 1:1-3………> I will paraphrase it for you and please notice what i put in Quotations marks.
That which was from “THE” beginning which we have “HEARD”, which we have Seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the “WORD” of LIFE.- 2 and the “LIFE” was made manifest, (IN) Jesus Christ, (now notice T8) and we have seen “IT”, and testify to “IT” and proclaim to you (THE) ETERNAL LIFE, which was “WITH” the FATHER and was made manifest “TO US” (IN) Christ Jesus- 3 that which we have seen and “HEARD” we proclaim “ALSO” to you, So that you too, may have fellowship is with the FATHER (AND) with his Son Jesus Christ. Who GOD the FATHER who is the WORD that was (IN) the MAN Jesus.
T8 notice the “IT”S there , John did not say He or Jesus now did he?, The “IT” is the WORD of GOD that was (IN) the man Jesus . Remember when Jesus said the WORDS i am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT (AND) LIFE> The Word or LOGOS which was God the FATHER was (IN) Jesus and the disciples understood that, That is the “IT” John was talking about there not Jesus as the “IT”. But the LOGOS that came to be (IN) the Flesh man Jesus. Another point is Jesus was Not from “THE” BEGINNING, GOD the FATHER was FROM the BEGINNING T8, Not Jesus.
Forcing the text to say what in fact it is not truly saying is wrong T8. Reread it closely as see if what i am telling you is true or not brother. I know it goes against you preconceived learning and past teachings but look at it honestly and without being prejudiced. brother. T8 just believe what Jesus said many time “THE FATHER IS (IN) ME” , you have yet not come to see and believe that . IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene
Hi Gene Gal.3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, ” And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one. “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. Is Christ and Jesus the same?
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