Preexistence

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 14 2011,04:58)

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 13 2011,18:51) John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? Who among you can give the best explanation to make this mean otherwise to what it is saying? Get crackin boyz. There's some work to be done. t8, I have previously presented the following before, but here it is again! How soon they forget! Following is an excerpt from John Cordaro's article “Did Our Savior Preexist?“: Yahshua Came Down From Heaven The phrase “came down from heaven” is difficult for many to understand.

Frank. That scripture doesn't say, “came down from heaven”. It says, “What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?”.

Have another try.

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 14 2011,11:06)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 13 2011,16:31) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 13 2011,20:56) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 13 2011,13:39) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 13 2011,19:33) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 13 2011,12:04) frank Quote So Pierre, I take it that you believe that you can not possess, have or share the truth right? That is VERY sad! my friend you may understand English better than i do this is certain  but as to scriptures you are blind it stops to the reading of your English language,in your spiritual knowledge,and sins spiritual understanding does not make sens to carnal believers,i do know you missed the real value in scriptures , What I was saying in my comment is ;GOD IS TRUTH ,HAS THE TRUTH ,NOTHING ELSE HAS TRUTH , BUT GOD GIVES TRUTH TO HIS SON ,AND HIS SON GIVE IT TO HIS DISCIPLES ,AND THE DISCIPLES HAVE WRITTEN FOR US TO TAKE PART OF THAT TRUTH and so possess it  ;BUT EVEN NOW THIS IS STILL GODS TRUTH ,IF YOU LEAVE IT ALONE AS HE GIVE IT TO US, BUT YOU CARNAL MINDED KNOW BETTER RIGHT ?D Pierre: Pierre, Did not Yahshua proclaim “I am the way the truth and the life.”? First you say “GOD IS TRUTH ,HAS THE TRUTH ,NOTHING ELSE HAS TRUTH” then you contradict yourself and then say “BUT GOD GIVES TRUTH TO HIS SON ,AND HIS SON GIVE IT TO HIS DISCIPLES ,AND THE DISCIPLES HAVE WRITTEN FOR US TO TAKE PART OF THAT TRUTH and so possess it” When our Heavenly Father and Creator gave His son truth, would he not then have the truth that He had given him. When Yahshua gave the truth to his disciples that his and our Father Yahweh had given to him, wouldn't they all then have the truth? They most certainly would! This makes your statement “NOTHING ELSE HAS TRUTH” an untruth, since they certainly had the truth that was given to them. frank Quote Did not Yahshua proclaim “I am the way the truth and the life yes he say that ; but he also say this ;Jn 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. so this you mist  on the way wen you read the first verse ?? Pierre Pierre, No, I did not miss that verse. Verse 5:19 does not say that Yahshua did not have the truth. In fact Yahshua says at the very beginning of this verse “I tell you the truth …”. If Yahshua did not have the truth he certainly would not be telling them that he was telling them the truth. frank you still do not get it ; Christ was created so he had a beginning and that's where he start to know the truth of God ,Pro;8 ;22-30 and sins he did not do the will of his father and so accomplish the truth of his father prior to him going to John to get baptize he was preparing him self for the work to be done but as soon that he is baptized is live change into the truth of God so that all the works,talks, he does glorifies his father ,and he his glorifies as well because he says that he his the son of God and by doing the will that glorifie s God he get glorified by it because it prove that what he says is the truth, no lie came out of the lips of Christ , we are judged by the truth of God. see the truth is the most importante thing ,without it all is a lie; so the truth leads to the true understanding ,with out of it you do not have a key to enter the kingdom,because you are carrying lies,how can you find the kingdom door ?? with lies ??or the trail that leads to that kingdom,impossible . Pierre Pierre, No, it is you that still does not get it! You can't even admit that you contradicted yourself!

frank

yeah ,you are one of those ,

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 14 2011,11:14)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 13 2011,13:47) frank Quote Pierre, I guess you missed the point then! The illustration shows YOUR “Jesus glorified” as many other similar images of YOUR “deity” showing a halo suspended over its head. This image is related to the previous article that I posted entitled “GLORY”. The Messiah did not walk around “glorified” with a sun disc, halo or bright light suspended over his head. ————– if you going to talk about the son of God s glory ,then you have to talk about the glory of the father ,and of the disciplles and all others ,just as you would talk about an elephant you cannot just talk about his trumk this would misguiding the audience who are listning ,and this is where you need inside understanding , for your info I know what all that crap means but do not touch it , Pierre Pierre, No, you don't touch the crap you wollow in it!

frank

this is your world ,the picture of Christ in glory” is yours and you worship him ,so you make the image ,and not even know how Christ looks like in first place ,then you go on and you are a worshiper of created things ,

and it is me that you call WOLLOW IN IT “

yeah one of those ,funny ones;

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Pastry @ Dec. 14 2011,01:30)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 13 2011,13:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 13 2011,12:54) Pierre, Did you start worshipping Jesus without telling me?  Or is Frank just posting more of his usual nonsense? Mike, I have no problem with those who “worship” the Messiah. In fact, I myself “worship” the Messiah, since he is most certainly worthy of “worship”, but I most certainly do not worship him as a “God” or as our Heavenly Father and Creator. I “worship” Yahshua as the Messiah the son of the living Yahweh and not as a “God” or as a second Yahweh. Word Studies On Worship (shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo) Frank! I have not been around for awhile, but this post you made is not according to Scriptures…. In fact all you hear today in Churches Jesus here and Jesus there, singing praises to Him and indeed worship Him….So wrong… Jhn 4:21   Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.   I am showing you this verse first to make you aware that it is Jesus who is saying the next verses Jhn 4:22   Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.   Jhn 4:23   But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.   Jhn 4:24   God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. The time is here also that most worship Jesus… you are wrong my friend and should repent of it… Peace Irene

Pastry.

Frank has his view and everyone else is a Trinitarian.

He seems unable to see that some people believe scripture when it says that Jesus is the son of God, the messiah, and the firstborn of all creation. He is unable to comprehend that one can not believe that Jesus is God, yet believe the truth that Jesus existed with divine nature (form of God), emptied himself, came in the flesh, humbled himself, died, rose again, and is seated at the right hand of God in the glory that he had with the Father before the creation of the world.

You see, if he believes all others are Trinitarians, then he feels more secure that he is right because he is right that God is not a Trinity. So he will just put you in that camp and then it makes him right in his own mind.

It is this limitation of humans that politicians exploit. Thinking there are only 2 options to everything, politicians often pose things like the following:

You can have an ID card.
Or we will set up an ID system where everyone has a number in a computer.

Then people go for the one that will have least impact in their freedom. But what happened to not having either?

Frank doesn't want more than 2 choices because it means that other beliefs of his (besides God being the Father) come under scrutiny.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 14 2011,06:33)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 14 2011,11:06) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 13 2011,16:31) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 13 2011,20:56) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 13 2011,13:39) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 13 2011,19:33) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 13 2011,12:04) frank Quote So Pierre, I take it that you believe that you can not possess, have or share the truth right? That is VERY sad! my friend you may understand English better than i do this is certain  but as to scriptures you are blind it stops to the reading of your English language,in your spiritual knowledge,and sins spiritual understanding does not make sens to carnal believers,i do know you missed the real value in scriptures , What I was saying in my comment is ;GOD IS TRUTH ,HAS THE TRUTH ,NOTHING ELSE HAS TRUTH , BUT GOD GIVES TRUTH TO HIS SON ,AND HIS SON GIVE IT TO HIS DISCIPLES ,AND THE DISCIPLES HAVE WRITTEN FOR US TO TAKE PART OF THAT TRUTH and so possess it  ;BUT EVEN NOW THIS IS STILL GODS TRUTH ,IF YOU LEAVE IT ALONE AS HE GIVE IT TO US, BUT YOU CARNAL MINDED KNOW BETTER RIGHT ?D Pierre: Pierre, Did not Yahshua proclaim “I am the way the truth and the life.”? First you say “GOD IS TRUTH ,HAS THE TRUTH ,NOTHING ELSE HAS TRUTH” then you contradict yourself and then say “BUT GOD GIVES TRUTH TO HIS SON ,AND HIS SON GIVE IT TO HIS DISCIPLES ,AND THE DISCIPLES HAVE WRITTEN FOR US TO TAKE PART OF THAT TRUTH and so possess it” When our Heavenly Father and Creator gave His son truth, would he not then have the truth that He had given him. When Yahshua gave the truth to his disciples that his and our Father Yahweh had given to him, wouldn't they all then have the truth? They most certainly would! This makes your statement “NOTHING ELSE HAS TRUTH” an untruth, since they certainly had the truth that was given to them. frank Quote Did not Yahshua proclaim “I am the way the truth and the life yes he say that ; but he also say this ;Jn 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. so this you mist  on the way wen you read the first verse ?? Pierre Pierre, No, I did not miss that verse. Verse 5:19 does not say that Yahshua did not have the truth. In fact Yahshua says at the very beginning of this verse “I tell you the truth …”. If Yahshua did not have the truth he certainly would not be telling them that he was telling them the truth. frank you still do not get it ; Christ was created so he had a beginning and that's where he start to know the truth of God ,Pro;8 ;22-30 and sins he did not do the will of his father and so accomplish the truth of his father prior to him going to John to get baptize he was preparing him self for the work to be done but as soon that he is baptized is live change into the truth of God so that all the works,talks, he does glorifies his father ,and he his glorifies as well because he says that he his the son of God and by doing the will that glorifie s God he get glorified by it because it prove that what he says is the truth, no lie came out of the lips of Christ , we are judged by the truth of God. see the truth is the most importante thing ,without it all is a lie; so the truth leads to the true understanding ,with out of it you do not have a key to enter the kingdom,because you are carrying lies,how can you find the kingdom door ?? with lies ??or the trail that leads to that kingdom,impossible . Pierre Pierre, No, it is you that still does not get it! You can't even admit that you contradicted yourself! frank yeah ,you are one of those ,

Pierre,

No ,you are one of those ,

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 14 2011,06:37)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 14 2011,11:14) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 13 2011,13:47) frank Quote Pierre, I guess you missed the point then! The illustration shows YOUR “Jesus glorified” as many other similar images of YOUR “deity” showing a halo suspended over its head. This image is related to the previous article that I posted entitled “GLORY”. The Messiah did not walk around “glorified” with a sun disc, halo or bright light suspended over his head. ————– if you going to talk about the son of God s glory ,then you have to talk about the glory of the father ,and of the disciplles and all others ,just as you would talk about an elephant you cannot just talk about his trumk this would misguiding the audience who are listning ,and this is where you need inside understanding , for your info I know what all that crap means but do not touch it , Pierre Pierre, No, you don't touch the crap you wollow in it!   frank this is your world ,the picture of Christ in glory” is yours and you worship him ,so you make the image ,and not even know how Christ looks like in first place ,then you go on and you are a worshiper of created things , and it is me that you call WOLLOW IN IT “ yeah one of those ,funny ones;

Pierre,

No, it is YOUR world!

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 14 2011,06:37)

Quote (Pastry @ Dec. 14 2011,01:30) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 13 2011,13:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 13 2011,12:54) Pierre, Did you start worshipping Jesus without telling me?  Or is Frank just posting more of his usual nonsense? Mike, I have no problem with those who “worship” the Messiah. In fact, I myself “worship” the Messiah, since he is most certainly worthy of “worship”, but I most certainly do not worship him as a “God” or as our Heavenly Father and Creator. I “worship” Yahshua as the Messiah the son of the living Yahweh and not as a “God” or as a second Yahweh. Word Studies On Worship (shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo) Frank! I have not been around for awhile, but this post you made is not according to Scriptures…. In fact all you hear today in Churches Jesus here and Jesus there, singing praises to Him and indeed worship Him….So wrong… Jhn 4:21   Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.   I am showing you this verse first to make you aware that it is Jesus who is saying the next verses Jhn 4:22   Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.   Jhn 4:23   But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.   Jhn 4:24   God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. The time is here also that most worship Jesus… you are wrong my friend and should repent of it… Peace Irene Pastry. Frank has his view and everyone else is a Trinitarian. He seems unable to see that some people believe scripture when it says that Jesus is the son of God, the messiah, and the firstborn of all creation. He is unable to comprehend that one can not believe that Jesus is God, yet believe the truth that Jesus existed with divine nature (form of God), emptied himself, came in the flesh, humbled himself, died, rose again, and is seated at the right hand of God in the glory that he had with the Father before the creation of the world. You see, if he believes all others are Trinitarians, then he feels more secure that he is right because he is right that God is not a Trinity. So he will just put you in that camp and then it makes him right in his own mind. It is this limitation of humans that politicians exploit. Thinking there are only 2 options to everything, politicians often pose things like the following: You can have an ID card. Or we will set up an ID system where everyone has a number in a computer. Then people go for the one that will have least impact in their freedom. But what happened to not having either? Frank doesn't want more than 2 choices because it means that other beliefs of his (besides God being the Father) come under scrutiny.

t8,

You are a fool!

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 14 2011,06:29)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 14 2011,04:58) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 13 2011,18:51) John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? Who among you can give the best explanation to make this mean otherwise to what it is saying? Get crackin boyz. There's some work to be done. t8, I have previously presented the following before, but here it is again! How soon they forget! Following is an excerpt from John Cordaro's article “Did Our Savior Preexist?“: Yahshua Came Down From Heaven The phrase “came down from heaven” is difficult for many to understand. Frank. That scripture doesn't say, “came down from heaven”. It says, “What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?”. Have another try.

t8,

I see that you did not even bother to read the articles! What a fool you are!

[Frank4YAHWEH]

t8,

You have another try!

I have previously presented the following before, but here it is again! How soon they forget! In t8's case … How they do not even bother to listen!

Following is an excerpt from John Cordaro's article “Did Our Savior Preexist?”:

Yahshua Came Down From Heaven

The phrase “came down from heaven” is difficult for many to understand. The Jews did
not understand either as we read in Jn. 6:42; “And they said, Is not this Yahshua, the
son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he saith, I came
down from heaven?” There is no doubt that Yahshua was emphasizing his heavenly and
paternal origin, but in what sense was he declaring this? We have already seen that the
phrase “sent from Yahweh” does not necessarily mean to exist side by side with and
then leave Yahweh's presence. Neither does “came down from” mean something
similar.

Was Yahshua a pre-existent spirit being living side by side with Yahweh that was
transformed into an embryo placed in Miriam's womb or was he actually “inside”
Yahweh? Jn.17:8 teaches the latter. It reads, “For I have given unto them the words
which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I
came out from thee , and they have believed that thou didst send me.” The Greek word
“exerchomai” translated “came out” specifically means to go out of something that you
were inside of. In this case, Yahshua existed “inside” of Yahweh in a similar sense that
Levi existed inside the “loins of his father” before he was born (Heb. 7:5-10). In that
passage, Levi was not born yet, nor was his father Jacob. Yet, Levi was said to be in
Abraham's loins (in the sense of future lineage). (The lineage of Messiah is spoken of in
Mic 5:2 and it traces all the way back to his Father Yahweh). While it is difficult to
perceive of the Almighty having an “inside,” that is what the text is saying. Yet, this, too,
is figurative and equates with the mind of Yahweh.

There will be those who will totally misunderstand my words, so let me clarify this. I am
not suggesting the Almighty has “loins.” Nor am I suggesting Yahshua was conceived in
any manner similar to the manner in which all men are conceived (through
procreation/copulation). Yahweh is Spirit. His Holy Spirit “came upon” Miriam and
miraculously caused her egg to receive the necessary DNA to create a 100% male
child in her womb.

Lu 1:35 says, “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come
upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy
thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

Yahshua declared this truth in Jn.16:27-30 as well. “For the Father himself loveth you,
because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from Yahweh . I came
forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to
the Father. His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no
proverb. Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man
should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from Yahweh.” Yahshua
could not come from Yahweh's side and from inside of Yahweh at the same time. Only
one can be true.

A verse that goes hand in hand with the phrase “came down from heaven” is Jn.6:62;
“What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?” Yahshua's
origin is not in question here. Those who reject the pre-existence doctrine should not
reject Yahshua's heavenly origin or that his father was Yahweh. Yahshua was, at one
time, in heaven. He existed in the loins of His Father Yahweh (in the sense of future
lineage) until the appointed time of his earthly birth. Through Yahweh's miraculous Holy
Spirit power He then created in Miriam's egg a 100% man. The belief that Yahshua
was a spirit being that was miniaturized and placed directly into Miriam's womb without
her egg being involved is unscriptural. If that were true, Miriam would merely be a
surrogate mother and Yahshua would not be from the blood line of David.

Also see:

Yahshua Came Down From Heaven
By Voy Wilks
1990 – Revised 1993

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 14 2011,06:54)

t8, I see that you did not even bother to read the articles! What a fool you are!

Frank.

Your post shows you have clearly lost.

Scripture warns about calling people fools.
And you have done the opposite of what scripture says not to do.

This is a sign as to what you do with scripture elsewhere.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 14 2011,07:11)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 14 2011,06:54) t8, I see that you did not even bother to read the articles! What a fool you are! Frank. Your post shows you have clearly lost. Scripture warns about calling people fools. And you have done the opposite of what scripture says not to do. This is a sign as to what you do with scripture elsewhere.

t8,

If what you say is true, then Yahshua would also be lost and he also would have been doing opposite of what Scripture says to do, since he would have called you a fool along with the foolish Galatians. BUT! You are wrong as usual!

[Proclaimer]

John 6:62
Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!

John 6:38
“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

They are completely different scriptures with different words.

You need to explain away both, not one and use that to nullify the other.

As I said earlier, there is a competition for you to come up with the best way to change what that verse is saying.

Saying that it is the same as John 6:38 is a bad attempt because the words are completely different.

For a start, one verse is talking about ascending and the other descending.
One is saying ascend to where he was before, the other is talking about coming down from Heaven.

Your attempts to answer questions using quotes from someone else, shows that you do not really have true understanding yourself.
Instead you show that you are a follower of someone else and refer to him each time you are asked a question.

This is what all cults do. The followers cannot think for themselves and refer to their leader instead.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 14 2011,07:18)

t8, If what you say is true, then Yahshua would also be lost and he also would have been doing opposite of what Scripture says to do, since he would have called you a fool along with the foolish Galatians. BUT! You are wrong as usual!

Not so Frank.

Calling a person a fool is different to saying they are foolish.
Because everyone is capable of doing foolish things as you sometimes demonstrate.

But to pronounce a person a fool is to pass judgement on them as a person.

Look at it this way. A wise person is still capable of foolish things. So you can be wise and do foolish things from time to time. Why, because even a wise person is not perfect.

But to pronounce someone as a fool is to pass judgement on them in a way that scripture condemns.

I simply point out that you have infringed scripture in this matter clearly for all to see and this only provides further proof that you are making errors in scripture elsewhere because if you are wrong on this point, then you can be wrong on other points and we are saying yes indeed you are wrong on other points too.

Look at it this way.

If I run sometimes, am I a runner.
If I draw a picture am I an artist.
If I do foolish things from time to time, am I a fool.

Of course I am not admitting that I have even done anything foolish in my defence as to why Jesus is the first-born of all creation and that everything was made through him and he is before all things.
I am arguing from the position as to show you that you are wrong to call anyone a fool.

You should repent and apologise to me for calling me a fool.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 14 2011,07:18)

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 14 2011,07:11) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 14 2011,06:54) t8, I see that you did not even bother to read the articles! What a fool you are! Frank. Your post shows you have clearly lost. Scripture warns about calling people fools. And you have done the opposite of what scripture says not to do. This is a sign as to what you do with scripture elsewhere. t8, If what you say is true, then Yahshua would also be lost and he also would have been doing opposite of what Scripture says to do, since he would have called you a fool along with the foolish Galatians. BUT! You are wrong as usual!

Can we call someone a fool or not?
Matthew 5:22 and Matthew 23:17; Psalm 14:1

Do not call someone a fool ? (Mattithyah [Matthew] 5:22) – “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the Gehenna of fire.”

Calling someone a fool: (Psalm 14:1) – “The fool has said in his heart, “There is no Almighty One [Yahweh].!” They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does righteousness.” (Mattithyah [Matthew] 23:17) – “You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold?”

When Yahshua said in Mattithyah [Matthew] 5:22 that you should not call anyone a fool, contextually he was speaking of those who were unrighteously angry. That is why Yahshua mentions anger in this verse. There is a righteous anger which is not sinful (Eph. 4:26 – “Be angry and do not sin . . .” ), as well as unrighteous anger that is sinful (Yahqob [James] 1:20 – “for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of Yahweh”). When Yahweh is angry with someone, He is always righteous in His anger. Yahshua can righteously be angry with people and pronounce upon them the foolishness of their deeds–which He did (Mattithyah [Matthew] 23:17). Also, undoubtedly, Yahshua knew Psalm 14:1 which says, “The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no Almighty One [Yahweh]' . . .” Yahshua didn't forget the well known verse, and Yahweh is not wrong for calling someone a fool, especially when it is true.

As a result, we see that the condemnation by Yahshua in regards to calling someone a fool is in the context of doing it out of unrighteous anger, which does not fit the later citations of Yahshua labeling the hypocritical Pharisees as fools.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 14 2011,07:38)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 14 2011,07:18) t8, If what you say is true, then Yahshua would also be lost and he also would have been doing opposite of what Scripture says to do, since he would have called you a fool along with the foolish Galatians. BUT! You are wrong as usual! Not so Frank. Calling a person a fool is different to saying they are foolish. Because everyone is capable of doing foolish things as you sometimes demonstrate. But to pronounce a person a fool is to pass judgement on them as a person. Look at it this way. A wise person is still capable of foolish things. So you can be wise and do foolish things from time to time. Why, because even a wise person is not perfect. But to pronounce someone as a fool is to pass judgement on them in a way that scripture condemns. I simply point out that you have infringed scripture in this matter clearly for all to see and this only provides further proof that you are making errors in scripture elsewhere because if you are wrong on this point, then you can be wrong on other points and we are saying yes indeed you are wrong on other points too. Look at it this way. If I run sometimes, am I a runner. If I draw a picture am I an artist. If I do foolish things from time to time, am I a fool. Of course I am not admitting that I have even done anything foolish in my defence as to why Jesus is the first-born of all creation and that everything was made through him and he is before all things. I am arguing from the position as to show you that you are wrong to call anyone a fool. You should repent and apologise to me for calling me a fool.

t8,

You are a fool!

[Proclaimer]

Enough said.

You demonstrate what manner of man you are and who would listen to your teaching or doctrine after that display.
Your fruits are in line with your doctrine it seems.

A good tree produces good fruit and a bad tree bad fruit.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 14 2011,07:57)

Enough said. You demonstrate what manner of man you are and who would listen to your teaching or doctrine after that display. Your fruits are in line with your doctrine it seems. A good tree produces good fruit and a bad tree bad fruit.

t8,

You are a FOOLISH bad tree! Apologize for calling you a fool? No way! I call them as I see them!

[Proclaimer]

For the benefit of those who love the truth, I offer this.

A man who believes that God doesn't exist is a fool according to God and thus we believe God's judgement.

We should call no man a fool based on our own standards.
God is the ultimate judge and if he says someone is a fool, then they are a fool because God is true.

We wary of men who make judgements as if they are God.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 12 2011,20:50)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 13 2011,19:54) Pierre, Did you start worshipping Jesus without telling me?  Or is Frank just posting more of his usual nonsense? Mike I would not do that unless i ask you       I am a senior not senile Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 12 2011,19:57)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 13 2011,12:51) Frank, can God Almighty be WITH God Almighty?  YES or NO? Mike, Why are you asking me such foolish questions? I have never claimed “God Almighty [is] WITH God Almighty.”!

Frank,

I'm confused because you are giving off mixed signals.  

First you say, “and the word was Yahweh”.  But then you deny claiming that Yahweh was WITH Yahweh.

The reason I'm confused is because of John 1:1b, “and the Word was WITH God”.

Do you see my dilemma now?  If John says the Word was WITH Yahweh, and YOU say the Word WAS Yahweh, then aren't you in effect saying Yahweh was WITH Yahweh?  

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