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Quote (t8 @ Dec. 12 2011,07:16) Edj. Too much water has gone under the bridge for me to read it all, since our last communication.
You say that the Word is the Holy Spirit.
So I want to ask you what you think the sword of the Spirit is.
I think the sword is the word, but you say the spirit is the word.
So what is the sword then?
t8,The sword is one of the representive spiritual divises (powerful weapons for protection in fighting – armour) that are used to fight off the wiles (schemes, strategies, deceits) of the devil (Ephesians 6:11). Clearly the sword represents Father Yahweh's inspired word.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 12 2011,10:19) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 12 2011,07:16) Edj. Too much water has gone under the bridge for me to read it all, since our last communication.
You say that the Word is the Holy Spirit.
So I want to ask you what you think the sword of the Spirit is.
I think the sword is the word, but you say the spirit is the word.
So what is the sword then?
t8,The sword is one of the representive spiritual divises (powerful weapons for protection in fighting – armour) that are used to fight off the wiles (schemes, strategies, deceits) of the devil (Ephesians 6:11). Clearly the sword represents Father Yahweh's inspired word.
In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance (Revelation 1:16.Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth (Revelation 2:16).
Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of Yahweh Almighty (Revelation 19:15.
For the word of Yahweh is living and active, sharper than any double-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul and spirit, joints and marrow, as it judges the thoughts and purposes of the heart.Hebrews 4:12
Clearly the sword represents the word that come from the mouth.
Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Proverb 12:18).
Like a club or a sword or a sharp arrow is the man who gives false testimony against his neighbor (Proverb 25:18).
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 12 2011,10:19) t8, The sword is one of the representive spiritual divises (powerful weapons for protection in fighting – armour) that are used to fight off the wiles (schemes, strategies, deceits) of the devil (Ephesians 6:11). Clearly the sword represents Father Yahweh's inspired word.
I agree, however, truth is also from YHWH and yet it is still possible that Jesus is the truth.Another being can be named after an attribute of God if that being represents that attribute.
Even in English we have names like Grace and Joy.
Many second century fathers said that Jesus was the Logos and that didn't diminish the logos that was in God himself.
Likewise a fire that ignites another fire doesn't lessen the original fire.Quote (t8 @ Dec. 12 2011,11:06) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 12 2011,10:19) t8, The sword is one of the representive spiritual divises (powerful weapons for protection in fighting – armour) that are used to fight off the wiles (schemes, strategies, deceits) of the devil (Ephesians 6:11). Clearly the sword represents Father Yahweh's inspired word.
I agree, however, truth is also from YHWH and yet it is still possible that Jesus is the truth.Another being can be named after an attribute of God if that being represents that attribute.
Even in English we have names like Grace and Joy.
Many second century fathers said that Jesus was the Logos and that didn't diminish the logos that was in God himself.
Likewise a fire that ignites another fire doesn't lessen the original fire.
t8,Father Yahweh's truth is not an actual being or person apart from Himself just as Father Yahweh's word and spirit is not an actaul being or person apart from Himself. Yahshua simply referred (or attributed) to himself as truth, in that he spoke the words of truth that came from his and our Father Yahweh (Yahchanan [John] 12:49). Certainly his and our Father Yahweh is the source of the way, the truth and the life and the initial source of the righteous spiritual word.
The spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life (Yahchanan [John] 6:63).
Note also that Shaul gives reference to Father Yahweh's law (torah, instruction, word) as being spiritual:
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am merely human, sold as a slave to sin (Romans 7:14).
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 12 2011,02:36) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 10 2011,20:39) Hi Mike, The father's glory is in his children.
And Jesus is God's firstborn.
That is completely unscriptural, Ed. The Father says He will share His glory with NO other.God's children have the glory of God's children – not of God Himself.
Only God has the glory of God. And God does not have the glory of one of His creations. He has a much greater glory than any of His creations could ever have.
So, once again:
Why would the Word, (who IS God, according to you), not have the glory of GOD – but instead have the glory of one begotten BY GOD?
Hi MikeFor God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts,
to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2Cor.4:6)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 12 2011,02:43) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 10 2011,20:47) After Jesus is mentioned at the end of verse 14 as “the only begotten of the Father”,
“him”, “he” and “his” then refers to Jesus, as the focus switches to Jesus.
But it is “The Word” who is referred to by the words “the only begotten of the Father”.THE WORD is who became flesh………….AND dwelled among us…………….AND had the glory of the only begotten of the Father.
Hi Mike,“As of” was used because God's glory had not yet been revealed in us.
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14)
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 12 2011,02:45) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 10 2011,20:50) Hi Mike, Compliment or no Gene is going to agree with me in the end
as you pointed out; and that is a compliment.
So then you will take it as a compliment that you are speaking unscriptural things, and your buddy will eventually agree with those unscriptural things just because your words tickle his itching ears? That is a “compliment” to you, Ed?
Hi Mike,Who says that YOU? …it is not true.
Explaining the truth is not a tickle to the ears.Quote (t8 @ Dec. 12 2011,07:16) Edj. Too much water has gone under the bridge for me to read it all, since our last communication.
You say that the Word is the Holy Spirit.
So I want to ask you what you think the sword of the Spirit is.
I think the sword is the word, but you say the spirit is the word.
So what is the sword then?
Hi T8,I agree that the sword of the spirit is the word.
“The Word” is sharper than a two edged sword.
The spirit causes us to speak “The Word” of God.
The spirit goes in, the word comes out. (1Cor.14:36)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 12 2011,10:19) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 12 2011,07:16) Edj. Too much water has gone under the bridge for me to read it all, since our last communication.
You say that the Word is the Holy Spirit.
So I want to ask you what you think the sword of the Spirit is.
I think the sword is the word, but you say the spirit is the word.
So what is the sword then?
t8,The sword is one of the representive spiritual divises (powerful weapons for protection in fighting – armour) that are used to fight off the wiles (schemes, strategies, deceits) of the devil (Ephesians 6:11). Clearly the sword represents Father Yahweh's inspired word.
Hi Frank,I agree.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgT8………..> The Fire you mention is still from one source and it is still and exact Fire as all fire is.Spirit is Spirit and a Type of Spirit is able to be (IN) anyone, it can be transfered to one and to another , But it is the same Spirit Just as fire is the same no matter where it is lite. Jesus brother is not the LOGOS he never was But the LOGOS was (IN) him just as it can be in you me and all. None of that would make us that LOGOS though no matter how much we have of It. GOD and His LOGOS are ONE and the Same and if we yield our WILLS the That WILL of GOD Through the LOGOS being (IN) us as it was (IN) Jesus we then (ARE) the Son of the LIVING GOD and He abides (IN) us Just as He did Jesus our Elder Brother. IMO
T8……….I hope you are coming to see that GOD and the LOGOS are one and the same thing. John 1:1 was not talking about Jesus brother but GOD along, and (IT) came to be (IN) a Flesh MAN, JESUS> God IS A SPIRIT (INTELLECT) and (IT) can be UTTERED as a LOGOS. This is how GOD can be in ALL and through ALL, when we yield to it, we then are doing the FATHERS WILL, and are accounted as sons of the living God. WE are temples GOD dwells (IN) and it reveals the Father Yahweh's truth to us .
peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………………………gene
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 13 2011,00:51) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 12 2011,10:19) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 12 2011,07:16) Edj. Too much water has gone under the bridge for me to read it all, since our last communication.
You say that the Word is the Holy Spirit.
So I want to ask you what you think the sword of the Spirit is.
I think the sword is the word, but you say the spirit is the word.
So what is the sword then?
t8,The sword is one of the representive spiritual divises (powerful weapons for protection in fighting – armour) that are used to fight off the wiles (schemes, strategies, deceits) of the devil (Ephesians 6:11). Clearly the sword represents Father Yahweh's inspired word.
Hi Frank,I agree.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Frank and ED J…………………I also agree with you on this also.peace and love………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2011,10:34) Okay Gene, Let's say that you are right, and your word IS you. Is your word a child of yours that you have begotten, or is it YOU?
If it is YOU, then it would have the glory of YOU, and not the glory of a child you have begotten.
This is the point I'm making, Gene. Are you able to address it sensibly?
Bump for Gene.Gene, I'm wanting to know if your word, who you say IS YOU, would have YOUR glory, or the glory of a child OF yours. Because the Word in John 1, who you say IS GOD, doesn't have GOD'S glory, but the glory of a child OF God.
Gene, WHY doesn't God/Word have the glory of God/Word? Why does God/Word have the glory of one begotten BY God/Word?
Mike………..Have not idea what you are trying to say, You and your word are one and the same thing, as far as Glory goes concerning GOD GOD said he gives (HIS) GLORY to (NO) MAN, and I believe Jesus was a MAN>
Mike your problem is you not understanding what SPIRIT REALLY IS. SPIRIT is (INTELLECT) (IT) is NOT a PERSON. GOD who is a SPIRIT and is expressed by WORDS, (intelligent utterances) GOD and His LOGOS (ARE) ONE. Just as you and your WORDS ARE. IMO
peace and love………………………………………………gene
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 11 2011,16:56) The word translated as “God” in John 1:1 are in reference to Father Yahweh
That's impossible, Frank. Because ONE of the words translated as “God” was said to be WITH the other word translated as “God”.Frank, are you willing to claim that God Almighty can be WITH God Almighty?
Can mikeboll64 be WITH mikeboll64? Can Frank4YAHWEH be WITH Frank4YAHWEH?How does this work? How is it possible for ONE being to be WITH itself?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 11 2011,16:56) 95 Translations Of John 1:1: “… and the Word was God.”
And you are too blind to even realize that the reason those translations say “and the Word was with God” is because the translators KNOW the Word was Jesus, and they want to convey to their readers that JESUS is God. You are relying on the flawed versions of TRINITARIANS, Frank.Frank, I want to show you something important. I hope you won't just close your eyes and plug your ears……………..
From the 25 Trinitarian scholars of NETNotes:
Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of θεός (qeos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb.Frank, do you see that there are THREE possibilities for the translation of John 1:1c?
1. God
2. a god
3. qualitatively god, which would mean “the Word was divine”, as Moffatt and the The American Translation rendered itFrank, I want you to consider that NETNotes was compiled by 25 TRINITARIAN scholars, who want nothing more than for Jesus to BE God Almighty. Yet, despite their wants, they have concluded:
The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”)
Do you see that, Frank? Do you notice that, out of the THREE different possibilities of 1:1c, these scholars have only eliminated ONE? Do you see that the one they eliminated is the one YOU hold to so dearly? And do you see the REASON for the elimination, Frank? It is that pesky little word “with”. They rightly eliminate YOUR favorite choice (not to mention, the choice of 99% of Trinitarians who want Jesus to BE God) because they know that “the person of God” cannot possibly be said to be WITH “the person of God”.
So you can quote a million Trinitarian biased translations if you want to, Frank. And you can even pretend that their translation of “and the Word was God” was somehow meant to support your view that Jesus isn't the Word. But you are just fooling yourself. Because the truth is that they translate “and the Word was God” because they KNOW Jesus is that Word, and they are trying to convince people that Jesus IS the God he was WITH.
This is the correct translation:
John 1:1 New World Translation
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.Compare with 1:18, NWT:
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.See Frank? The only begotten god, who came to explain God, is the god who was WITH God in the beginning. This god is the main spokesman for God, and has therefore been given the title “the Word of God”.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 12 2011,08:58) You and your word are one and the same thing, as far as Glory goes concerning GOD GOD said he gives (HIS) GLORY to (NO) MAN, and I believe Jesus was a MAN>
Bingo!Gene, WHOSE glory do YOU have?
A. Gene has the glory of Gene.
B. Gene has the glory of someone begotten by Gene.Which one is accurate, Gene?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 13 2011,02:04) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 11 2011,16:56) The word translated as “God” in John 1:1 are in reference to Father Yahweh
That's impossible, Frank. Because ONE of the words translated as “God” was said to be WITH the other word translated as “God”.Frank, are you willing to claim that God Almighty can be WITH God Almighty?
Can mikeboll64 be WITH mikeboll64? Can Frank4YAHWEH be WITH Frank4YAHWEH?How does this work? How is it possible for ONE being to be WITH itself?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Dec. 11 2011,16:56) 95 Translations Of John 1:1: “… and the Word was God.”
And you are too blind to even realize that the reason those translations say “and the Word was with God” is because the translators KNOW the Word was Jesus, and they want to convey to their readers that JESUS is God. You are relying on the flawed versions of TRINITARIANS, Frank.Frank, I want to show you something important. I hope you won't just close your eyes and plug your ears……………..
From the 25 Trinitarian scholars of NETNotes:
Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of θεός (qeos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb.Frank, do you see that there are THREE possibilities for the translation of John 1:1c?
1. God
2. a god
3. qualitatively god, which would mean “the Word was divine”, as Moffatt and the The American Translation rendered itFrank, I want you to consider that NETNotes was compiled by 25 TRINITARIAN scholars, who want nothing more than for Jesus to BE God Almighty. Yet, despite their wants, they have concluded:
The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”)
Do you see that, Frank? Do you notice that, out of the THREE different possibilities of 1:1c, these scholars have only eliminated ONE? Do you see that the one they eliminated is the one YOU hold to so dearly? And do you see the REASON for the elimination, Frank? It is that pesky little word “with”. They rightly eliminate YOUR favorite choice (not to mention, the choice of 99% of Trinitarians who want Jesus to BE God) because they know that “the person of God” cannot possibly be said to be WITH “the person of God”.
So you can quote a million Trinitarian biased translations if you want to, Frank. And you can even pretend that their translation of “and the Word was God” was somehow meant to support your view that Jesus isn't the Word. But you are just fooling yourself. Because the truth is that they translate “and the Word was God” because they KNOW Jesus is that Word, and they are trying to convince people that Jesus IS the God he was WITH.
This is the correct translation:
John 1:1 New World Translation
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.Compare with 1:18, NWT:
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.See Frank? The only begotten god, who came to explain God, is the god who was WITH God in the beginning. This god is the main spokesman for God, and has therefore been given the title “the Word of God”.
Mike,Father Yahweh's word is with Him, not a “God” being called “Word”. Yahchanan 1:1 says “… and the word was Yahweh (“God”). Father Yahweh's word is not a separate being from Himself that existed with Him in the beginning. The words translated as 'word', and “God” in Yahchanan 1:1 are both in reference to Father Yahweh, not to His son Yahshua as a pre-existent being.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 13 2011,01:58) Mike………..Have not idea what you are trying to say, You and your word are one and the same thing, as far as Glory goes concerning GOD GOD said he gives (HIS) GLORY to (NO) MAN, and I believe Jesus was a MAN> Mike your problem is you not understanding what SPIRIT REALLY IS. SPIRIT is (INTELLECT) (IT) is NOT a PERSON. GOD who is a SPIRIT and is expressed by WORDS, (intelligent utterances) GOD and His LOGOS (ARE) ONE. Just as you and your WORDS ARE. IMO
peace and love………………………………………………gene
Gene,I have no idea what he is trying to say either! I don't believe that Mike even knows what he is trying to say! I believe he is only hell bent on trying to prove that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as and actual being and he will even puzzle and confuse you in an attempt to prove such foolishness. “If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit”?”
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 13 2011,02:08) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 12 2011,08:58) You and your word are one and the same thing, as far as Glory goes concerning GOD GOD said he gives (HIS) GLORY to (NO) MAN, and I believe Jesus was a MAN>
Bingo!Gene, WHOSE glory do YOU have?
A. Gene has the glory of Gene.
B. Gene has the glory of someone begotten by Gene.Which one is accurate, Gene?
Gene,Now Mike is trying to baffle you with the “glory” word!
It is really quite simple! Father Yahweh says that He will not give HIS esteem (“glory”) to another. The esteem (“glory”) that Father Yahweh gave to Yahshua is the esteem that he is His only begotten [first born from the dead] son, not that he is “God”.And the word [Father Yahweh's] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his [Yahshua's] esteem, the esteem as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of favor and truth (Yahchanan [John] 1:14).
Father Yahweh word was made flesh and dwelt [or tabernacled or housed) among us THROUGH (BY WAY OF) His son Yahshua.
Not only does scripture teach that Jesus was with the Father before the world began, but so does the Book of Enoch.
In addition, the second century fathers also believed this.But the fact that the bible teaches this is enough.
To teach this has nothing to do with being hell bent.
Try heaven bent.Snippet from the Book of Enoch
========================XLVIII. The Fount of Righteousness: the Son of Man -the Stay of the Righteous: Judgement of the Kings and the Mighty.
48
And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness
Which was inexhaustible:
And around it were many fountains of wisdom:
And all the thirsty drank of them,
And were filled with wisdom,
And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect.
And at that hour that Son of Man was named
In the presence of the Lord of Spirits,
And his name before the Head of Days.Yea, before the sun and the signs were created,
Before the stars of the heaven were made,
His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.He shall be a staff to the righteous whereon to stay themselves and not fall,
And he shall be the light of the Gentiles,
And the hope of those who are troubled of heart.All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him,
And will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits.And for this reason hath he been chosen and hidden before Him,
Before the creation of the world and for evermore.And the wisdom of the Lord of Spirits hath revealed him to the holy and righteous;
For he hath preserved the lot of the righteous,
Because they have hated and despised this world of unrighteousness,
And have hated all its works and ways in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
For in his name they are saved,
And according to his good pleasure hath it been in regard to their life.In these days downcast in countenance shall the kings of the earth have become,
And the strong who possess the land because of the works of their hands,
For on the day of their anguish and affliction they shall not (be able to) save themselves.
And I will give them over into the hands of Mine elect:
As straw in the fire so shall they burn before the face of the holy:
As lead in the water shall they sink before the face of the righteous,
And no trace of them shall any more be found.And on the day of their affliction there shall be rest on the earth,
And before them they shall fall and not rise again:
And there shall be no one to take them with his hands and raise them:
For they have denied the Lord of Spirits and His Anointed.
The name of the Lord of Spirits be blessed.XLIX. The Power and Wisdom of the Elect One.
49
For wisdom is poured out like water,
And glory faileth not before him for evermore.For he is mighty in all the secrets of righteousness,
And unrighteousness shall disappear as a shadow,
And have no continuance;
Because the Elect One standethbefore the Lord of Spirits,
And his glory is for ever and ever,
And his might unto all generations.And in him dwells the spirit of wisdom,
And the spirit which gives insight,
And the spirit of understanding and of might,
And the spirit of those who have fallen asleep in righteousness.And he shall judge the secret things,
And none shall be able to utter a lying word before him;
For he is the Elect One before the Lord of Spirits according to His good pleasure.
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