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Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 30 2011,10:59) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 30 2011,10:50) frank Quote Father Yahweh's word was with Him just as my word is with me. I never said that I believed “God was with God”! What foolishness! paid attention that it does not say WORDS it say THE WORD Jn 1;1 ,so if he was talking about his own words it would be plurial ,and it is totally non sens to think that John would talk about the speaking words that God may or may have not said ,
you have an preconcieved believe and so it make it difficult to see the truth.
Pierre
Pierre,So, is it your belief that when your translation of Scripture mentions the “word of God” that it is speaking of ONLY ONE word being spoken and not several words being spoken? If so, your translation of Scripture needs a total revamping!
You had better check your belief with the following and you will find that you are totally in error in your foolish reasoning:
Pierre,Note that in the KJV that there are fewer reference to “the words [plural] of God” than there are to “the word [singular] of God”. It is clear when reading the verses that contain “the word of God” that there are several words spoken and not just one single word spoken.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,17:19) Mike, I have previously made known to you that I was not CREATED, but was BORN
So then you are NOT a creation of your God, Frank?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,17:19) You believe that Yahshua created and I do not.
The only thing Jesus is ever said to have “created” is the whip he made out of cords. I don't believe Jesus created anything, Frank, nor have I ever claimed that he did. We have A Creator, not Creators.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,17:19) I believe that Father Yahweh “ALONE” and “BY HIMSELF” created the Heavens and the Earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM and that His son Yahshua never once proclaimed that he had created ANYTHING!
I believe that exact same thing………..because it is scriptural.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,17:19) I do not believe that Yahshua was a creating agent of his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning.
Not a “creating agent”, Frank. An agent THROUGH WHOM God created.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,17:19) Now is it your position that I should also believe that Adam, Noah, and my mother were also creating agents and pre-existed with Father Yahweh in the beginning?
Not at all. Adam, Noah, and your mother need only pre-exist the things that were created through them. So unless something was created through your mother BEFORE she was born as a human, then she most likely didn't pre-exist her flesh.On the other hand, the only way ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH could have been created through Jesus is if Jesus existed PRIOR TO the things that were created through him.
Frank, you are foolishly trying to put claims into our mouths that we haven't made. None of us have claimed that Jesus created anything ever. Nor have we claimed that anyone other than Jesus pre-existed his humanity.
Just stick to the things we HAVE ACTUALLY said, and SCRIPTURALLY refute them if you can.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 30 2011,10:50) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 30 2011,10:35) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 30 2011,09:49) t8, WHO IS THE WORD?
In John 1:14, this same 'word' that was God the Father (because the word was in the Father) produced His son Jesus.
Hi Frank, you are well studied and are rightly dividing “The Word” of God.the glory as of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14)
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18)The Word of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Hebrews 7:28)1Pet.1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of
incorruptible, by “The Word” of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.Of his own will begat he us with “The Word” of truth,
that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,Great Scriptural references! Thanks!
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,17:30) I never said that I believed “God was with God”! What foolishness!
That's right Frank,It is complete foolishness. But that is exactly what YOUR preferred translation of John 1:1 says – “In the beginning, God was WITH God”.
If the Word IS God, then 1:1 says “God was WITH God”.
But one thing cannot be WITH itself, Frank. That's why sane people realize that 1:1 speaks of TWO beings, one of whom was WITH the other.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 30 2011,11:16) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 30 2011,10:59) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 30 2011,10:50) frank Quote Father Yahweh's word was with Him just as my word is with me. I never said that I believed “God was with God”! What foolishness! paid attention that it does not say WORDS it say THE WORD Jn 1;1 ,so if he was talking about his own words it would be plurial ,and it is totally non sens to think that John would talk about the speaking words that God may or may have not said ,
you have an preconcieved believe and so it make it difficult to see the truth.
Pierre
Pierre,So, is it your belief that when your translation of Scripture mentions the “word of God” that it is speaking of ONLY ONE word being spoken and not several words being spoken? If so, your translation of Scripture needs a total revamping!
You had better check your belief with the following and you will find that you are totally in error in your foolish reasoning:
Pierre,Note that in the KJV that there are fewer reference to “the words [plural] of God” than there are to “the word [singular] of God”. It is clear when reading the verses that contain “the word of God” that there are several words spoken and not just one single word spoken.
Pierre,The second hyperlinked text in my last post should have been entitled “the word of God”.
When I say “I believe Father Yahweh's word!”, I am certainly not given reference to one single word within His word that I believe, but I am clearly giving reference to His ENTIRE WORD (ALL of His WORDS). It is common among all religions that study translations of Father Yahweh's inspired WORD to refer to His ENTIRE WORD (ALL of His WORDS) as HIS WORD.
No Greek “kudos” to you Pierre! You are easily shot down in your foolish reasoning! You will need a better education to deal with me!
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,17:48) Mike, I believe that Father Yahweh's word was with Him and that His word had power, might and strength. This is the initial Hebrew meaning of the word that has been erroneously translated as “God” or “god”.
Frank,I don't think “erroneously translated” is a fair claim, for John wrote what he wrote.
I will agree wholeheartedly that the word “theos” refers to a “mighty one” – and that one is not always God Almighty. (See 2 Cor 4:4 for an example)
The Hebrew word “el” is many times translated as “mighty” in English translations. And I would be happy with “mighty” in John 1:1……………..
“the Word was with God, and the Word was mighty”. Moffatt's translation has “and the Word was divine”.
Either way, this “Word” was WITH God Almighty, and also a mighty one himself. That still speaks of TWO, one of whom was WITH the other. Frank, consider the masculine forms of the Greek words. The Word is called a “he” and a “him”. The Word is never called an “it”, as it would be if you were right.
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 29 2011,17:50) paid attention that it does not say WORDS it say THE WORD Jn 1;1 ,so if he was talking about his own words it would be plurial
Great point, Pierre!It says “THE WORD”, not “words”. It is a title for God's main spokesman, Jesus.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,11:26) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,17:30) I never said that I believed “God was with God”! What foolishness!
That's right Frank,It is complete foolishness. But that is exactly what YOUR preferred translation of John 1:1 says – “In the beginning, God was WITH God”.
If the Word IS God, then 1:1 says “God was WITH God”.
But one thing cannot be WITH itself, Frank. That's why sane people realize that 1:1 speaks of TWO beings, one of whom was WITH the other.
Mike,My preferred translations do not say “In the beginning, God was WITH God”. If I ever found a translation with such wording, I would quickly throw it in the trash where it belongs! In fact, I am not aware of any such translation that says “In the beginning, God was WITH God”., are you? I believe that you would treasure such an erroneous translation if there was such a translation!
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,18:31) No Greek “kudos” to you Pierre! You are easily shot down in your foolish reasoning! You will need a better education to deal with me!
Says the fool who can't even address most of our posts!Frank, what happened when you read John 1:30? What about when you read 1:29 to find out who 30 was talking about?
Then what happened when you read 1:15? How about when you went back to 1:14 to find out who 15 was talking about?
Please…………..fill me in on what you discovered.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,18:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,11:26) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,17:30) I never said that I believed “God was with God”! What foolishness!
That's right Frank,It is complete foolishness. But that is exactly what YOUR preferred translation of John 1:1 says – “In the beginning, God was WITH God”.
If the Word IS God, then 1:1 says “God was WITH God”.
But one thing cannot be WITH itself, Frank. That's why sane people realize that 1:1 speaks of TWO beings, one of whom was WITH the other.
Mike,My preferred translations do not say “In the beginning, God was WITH God”. If I ever found a translation with such wording, I would quickly throw it in the trash where it belongs! In fact, I am not aware of any such translation that says “In the beginning, God was WITH God”., are you? I believe that you would treasure such an erroneous translation if there was such a translation!
Frank,In your opinion, WHO is the Word from John 1:1? And I say “WHO” and not “WHAT” because of the masculine words associated with HIM.
WHO is HE, Frank?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,11:36) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 29 2011,17:50) paid attention that it does not say WORDS it say THE WORD Jn 1;1 ,so if he was talking about his own words it would be plurial
Great point, Pierre!It says “THE WORD”, not “words”. It is a title for God's main spokesman, Jesus.
Mike,You are clearly uneducated as Pierre is!
I gave you clear proof that Father Yahweh's words are referred to in translation as “His word” and you have not taken the least bit of notice to this fact.Here is the proof again for your consideration:
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,11:43) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,18:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,11:26) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,17:30) I never said that I believed “God was with God”! What foolishness!
That's right Frank,It is complete foolishness. But that is exactly what YOUR preferred translation of John 1:1 says – “In the beginning, God was WITH God”.
If the Word IS God, then 1:1 says “God was WITH God”.
But one thing cannot be WITH itself, Frank. That's why sane people realize that 1:1 speaks of TWO beings, one of whom was WITH the other.
Mike,My preferred translations do not say “In the beginning, God was WITH God”. If I ever found a translation with such wording, I would quickly throw it in the trash where it belongs! In fact, I am not aware of any such translation that says “In the beginning, God was WITH God”., are you? I believe that you would treasure such an erroneous translation if there was such a translation!
Frank,In your opinion, WHO is the Word from John 1:1? And I say “WHO” and not “WHAT” because of the masculine words associated with HIM.
WHO is HE, Frank?
Mike,Father Yahweh's word is not a “who”, but is an “it” just as His set apart (holy, sacred) spirit is not a “who”, but an “it”.
The Holy Spirit Is An It!
The Holy Spirit Is Not A Person!Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,11:40) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,18:31) No Greek “kudos” to you Pierre! You are easily shot down in your foolish reasoning! You will need a better education to deal with me!
Says the fool who can't even address most of our posts!Frank, what happened when you read John 1:30? What about when you read 1:29 to find out who 30 was talking about?
Then what happened when you read 1:15? How about when you went back to 1:14 to find out who 15 was talking about?
Please…………..fill me in on what you discovered.
Mike,
John 1
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’1. Frank, is it clear to you, based on the word “Jesus” in verse 29, that John says these bolded words about Jesus?
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 John testifies concerning him and he cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”
2. Frank, is it equally clear to you, based on the words “The Word” in verse 14, that John says these bolded words about the Word?
Frank, I would like YOU to address these two questions DIRECTLY, and in YOUR OWN words, please.
You posting a bunch of scripturally flawed crap from others who aren't here to defend their crap against our questions doesn't do anyone any good.
I'm trying to show YOU something here, using the very words of scripture. PLEASE ADDRESS THIS POST.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,11:33) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 29 2011,17:48) Mike, I believe that Father Yahweh's word was with Him and that His word had power, might and strength. This is the initial Hebrew meaning of the word that has been erroneously translated as “God” or “god”.
Frank,I don't think “erroneously translated” is a fair claim, for John wrote what he wrote.
I will agree wholeheartedly that the word “theos” refers to a “mighty one” – and that one is not always God Almighty. (See 2 Cor 4:4 for an example)
The Hebrew word “el” is many times translated as “mighty” in English translations. And I would be happy with “mighty” in John 1:1……………..
“the Word was with God, and the Word was mighty”. Moffatt's translation has “and the Word was divine”.
Either way, this “Word” was WITH God Almighty, and also a mighty one himself. That still speaks of TWO, one of whom was WITH the other. Frank, consider the masculine forms of the Greek words. The Word is called a “he” and a “him”. The Word is never called an “it”, as it would be if you were right.
Mike,Yahchanan did not write or translate the translations that are available to us in this time period. In fact, his writings as he originally penned them as with all other writers of all other Scripture are not even in existence in this time period! All we have are copies upon copies and translations upon translations of those copies. To take this even a step further, we also have edited versions upon edited version of translations.
Then where will you stop, Frank? Will you make the “erroneously translated” accusation on any scripture that doesn't meet the approval of your doctrine?
Either accept the scriptures as the inspired word of God………or don't. But you can't just pick and choose the ones that fit into your doctrine and call the ones that don't fake.
Please address my previous post.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,12:03) John 1
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’1. Frank, is it clear to you, based on the word “Jesus” in verse 29, that John says these bolded words about Jesus?
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 John testifies concerning him and he cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”
2. Frank, is it equally clear to you, based on the words “The Word” in verse 14, that John says these bolded words about the Word?
Frank, I would like YOU to address these two questions DIRECTLY, and in YOUR OWN words, please.
You posting a bunch of scripturally flawed crap from others who aren't here to defend their crap against our questions doesn't do anyone any good.
I'm trying to show YOU something here, using the very words of scripture. PLEASE ADDRESS THIS POST.
Mike,Yes, I see that you are trying to show me something here and it certainly is not Scripture rightly divided, but wrested (twisted and perverted). You have shown me nothing but worthless crap from the very beginning. The fact is, I am already quite aware of the Scripture that Trinitarians and those who believe Yahshua pre-existed his birth twist (“wrest”) to their own destruction. See the leading links on my web page for full poof of this:
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,12:47) Frank, What is your direct answer to question #1?
How about question #2?
Mike,I have previously given answers to both of these questions in my previous posts which you have conveniently chose to ignore. I am also quite aware that others here who believe as I do have also answered both of these questions which you have also chose to ignore.
Frank……………….I have told them what you have brought out over and over, They just do not get it. God and His word or Words are one and the Same. Mike think a man and his word or words are not the same . I would like to see him separate his word or words from himself, if he could do that it that would prove his point, his words are an exaction expression of who and what he is they are him We know and man and his word are the same representation and mans words carry his Power, God's words carry his power and He spoke all thing into creation by His Own words. These people just don't understand if a man quotes someone else those words are not HIS Word but is the One he is quoting. Jesus plainly said in three places the words he spoke were not His word, so how could he be the Word or Words he said were not his. If He was the Word then the Word would be HIM, but he said he was not the Word becasue he said those words were not HIS. Thy think because Jesus was a spokesmen speaking God word to us that some how makes him the word or words he was speaking. The can't understand John was speaking about the Beginning of all thing in creation, and it was God who Spoke and carried out His Words in creation. God plainly says he created all the world and everything in to by himself and alone These people just reject those scriptures as if they are not even in the bible along with hundreds of other scriptures that also backs that up. They take one word that is translated 70/80 different way and they base their whole dogmas on that and other scriptures they take totally out of context forcing the text to say what in fact it is not truly saying. God does not create anything “THROUGH” any one He does it all Himself and he give that Glory to no man . God was (IN) Christ Jesus reconciling the words to him , they see it as GOD was working “THROUGH” Jesus the man , but scripture say He was (IN) Christ Jesus speaking to us. Where it say destory this temple and in three days I (God) , shall raise (IT) up. That was not Jesus speaking it was God the Father first person speaking through Jesus' mouth. and Where it says Mat 23:37…….> O Jerusalem, Jerusalem you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent unto you, how often would I have gathered your childern together, even as a hen gathers he chicks under her wings and you would not!,.
That was God the Father speaking first person in and through Jesus' mouth by his own spirit Logos, but none of that makes Jesus the LOGOS HIMSELF. Even if God Spoke directly through his mouth. God spoke directly through a Jack ASS to Balm that did not make the Jack ass GOD nor His word . God spoke through the Prophets His word but that did not Make them his Word either , God now Spoke through His Son but that does not makes His SON his word or words either.
Bottom line is GOD and His word or words are one and the Same. God's word was in the beginning with GOD and WAS GOD, Just that simple.
Peace and love to you and yours Frank………………gene
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