Preexistence

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 16 2011,23:25)

Kerwin…….To me the simplest explanation of what a Soul is, is found in Genesis , GOD created or molded a BODY when GOD did that it was a soul, but not LIVING and when GOD Breathed into His Nostrils the breath of LIFE (SPIRIT) He THEN became a “LIVING” Soul, before that he was a Body or a dead Soul not living.  Also Jesus did not address more then two thing when he said GOD could DESTROY (BOTH) Body and SOUL where “IN THE GRAVE” why because a body is the soul rather living or dead. “FOR THOU WILL NOT SUFFER HIS “SOUL' TO SEE CORRUPTION” Jesus' soul did not see corruption because GOD raised his body before it corrupted. WHY Because a Soul is the body and can corrupt in the grave. How by God simply not resurrecting a Body and adding spirit of life back into it. God who is pure Spiirt himself loves vicariously (IN) his material creation. It is crucial we ALL are resurected after we die to continual to live ever again, just as it was for Jesus. No Mystery Religion of some spooks still alive after we die , when we die our thoughts PARISH that is it the lights are out for ever unless GOD reconstructs a BODY and adds Spirit back into it. Kerwin a Sould is a living Being consisting of both a Soul (body) and Spirit in it. nothing more just that simple. The question is which Spirit and what Kind of SPIRIT (intellect) is driving that Soul or Body. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene

Gene! We don't agree with what our believes are, but with the Soul we for once agree. Genesis is the best proof. And we should always go by proving what Scripture says,. The Soul that sinnrth it shall die. Spirit that God gave us goes back to God who gave it.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Peace and love Irene

[terraricca]

all

it is not the flesh that sins,but the spirit in that flesh,

flesh stands for nothing,but is only the means by witch we acting our personality ,and produce the fruits of live (obedience to God)or the fruits of dead (sin)
so it is obvious that we need both to be a soul.
Pierre

[Proclaimer]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 16 2011,21:12)

Kerwin do not mix the tree and the fruit, our soul is not the flesh it is the spirit you receive from God ,and your hearth are the deepest sentiments you can have .add to those our works in live history and now thats a soul.(spirit of us) those two will combine and make what we are,the flesh being the tent in wish we can show to others who we are. this is why the day of our dead is more important than the day of our birth ,because wen we died all what has been written can not be changed, only the judgement is to come. this is why as a tree we should produce Godly fruits,not carnal fruits or sinful ones. Pierre

It is written somewhere that our spirit bears witness with God's spirit that we are the sons of God. So we are given the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit has fellowship with our spirit. To me, our spirit is what connects us with God and makes us one with him, Christ, and each other.

Further, our flesh is what connects us with the physical realm. Just as a space suit allows us to exist in space, the human suit allows us to live in the physical realm and be subject to it.

e.g., the body actually filters out much of the spectrum and interprets a small part of it. We can see the colours of the rainbow, but not beyond that. Our hearing is limited too.

What happens when the body is removed? I think it is like a filter that is taken away, and you are able to see so much more. At least in NDE, you often hear about people seeing portals etc.

[terraricca]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 17 2011,15:24)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 16 2011,21:12) Kerwin do not mix the tree and the fruit, our soul is not the flesh it is the spirit you receive from God ,and your hearth are the deepest sentiments you can have .add to those our works in live history and now thats a soul.(spirit of us) those two will combine and make what we are,the flesh being the tent in wish we can show to others who we are. this is why the day of our dead is more important than the day of our birth ,because wen we died all what has been written can not be changed, only the judgement is to come. this is why as a tree we should produce Godly fruits,not carnal fruits or sinful ones. Pierre It is written somewhere that our spirit bears witness with God's spirit that we are the sons of God. So we are given the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit has fellowship with our spirit. To me, our spirit is what connects us with God and makes us one with him, Christ, and each other. Further, our flesh is what connects us with the physical realm. Just as a space suit allows us to exist in space, the human suit allows us to live in the physical realm and be subject to it. e.g., the body actually filters out much of the spectrum and interprets a small part of it. We can see the colours of the rainbow, but not beyond that. Our hearing is limited too. What happens when the body is removed? I think it is like a filter that is taken away, and you are able to see so much more. At least in NDE, you often hear about people seeing portals etc.

T8

only the 144k will see Christ and God as they really are,

so most of us will be resurrected in the flesh,

and so what is going to be judged is not our body or our mind or our spirit ?

who are we ? we are what we do ,think,love,and preach,

for those things we will be judge,and all those are our soul the flesh being like you say a tent ,but without that tent it would be imposible to perform anything.

witch part of us is sinning ? the flesh ? no ,the flesh only act or respond to our will (spirit)

so it is the inner soul ,the will of the spirit in us what we have developed to love good or bad.

the holy spirit can be given in many different ways.the word (scriptures)are also from the holy spirit.

but is always given by God for a reason,but never for personal gain.

and i agree with you that our spirit bears witness that what we do is known to us either being good or bad,

and so become responsible of our actions.
and so it is “the soul that sin will die””

Pierre

[kerwin]

To all,

I was inspired to look up scriptures in the NIV that tell us what the soul does.  These are some of what I found as the list was longer than I expected.

Psalm 26:9

Do not take away my soul along with sinners, my life with those who are bloodthirsty,

Psalm 23:3

he refreshes my soul. He guides me along the right paths for his name’s sake.

Psalm 6:3

My soul is in deep anguish. How long, LORD, how long?

Job 30:25

Have I not wept for those in trouble? Has not my soul grieved for the poor?

Job 21:25

Another dies in bitterness of soul, never having enjoyed anything good.

Job 10:1

“I loathe my very life; therefore I will give free rein to my complaint and speak out in the bitterness of my soul.

Psalm 31:7

I will be glad and rejoice in your love, for you saw my affliction and knew the anguish of my soul.

Psalm 31:9

Be merciful to me, LORD, for I am in distress; my eyes grow weak with sorrow, my soul and body with grief.

Psalm 35:9

Then my soul will rejoice in the LORD and delight in his salvation.

Psalm 42:1

As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you, my God.

Psalm 42:2

My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. When can I go and meet with God?

Psalm 42:5

Why, my soul, are you downcast? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God, for I will yet praise him, my Savior and my God.

Psalm 42:6

My soul is downcast within me; therefore I will remember you from the land of the Jordan, the heights of Hermon—from Mount Mizar.

Psalm 62:1

my soul finds rest in God; my salvation comes from him.
Psalm 84:2

My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God.

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin……….Yes the Soul is the (COMPLETE) YOU, it is a BODY with SPIRIT in it, that is a SOUL. It can see (CORRUPTION) in the GRAVE as Jesus said it could, man did not become a (LIVING) Soul until the Spirit of GOD was breathed into it, and (THEN) He became a LIVING Soul. You also left out scriptures that show this , from your quotes that is because you assume a Soul can exist outside of a BODY. But Jesus showed that is not true a Soul is simply a Body with Spirit in it. God can destory a person by separating those two things (the spirit and the body) in the grave and man is in that state when he dies and will remain that way until he is resurected with a new body and spirit added back into it. Read the valley of Dead Bones this clearly shows a resurrection of bodies and spirit added back into them , Just as Adam was a lifeless body until God added Spirit (intellect) into it and (THEN) he became a “LIVING SOUL”> it is just that simple a Body + Spirit equals a living Soul rather a animal, fish, foul, or a man. Nephseh means a breathing Creature that entails all what a Soul or Nephesh is. separated the breathing from the creature and he no longer is a LIVING Soul. Destroy the body and his Soul no longer exists.

This may help.

Gen 1:21………And God created great whales, and ever living creature (the word there is mistranslated it should be Nephesh or SOUL. Kerwin Check it out brother.

peace and love………………………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 18 2011,08:57)

Kerwin……….Yes the Soul is the (COMPLETE) YOU, it is a BODY with SPIRIT in it,  that is a SOUL.  It can see (CORRUPTION) in the GRAVE as Jesus said it could, man did not become a (LIVING) Soul until the Spirit of GOD was breathed into it, and (THEN) He became a LIVING Soul. You also left out scriptures that show this , from your quotes that is because you assume a Soul can exist outside of a BODY. But Jesus showed that is not true a Soul is simply a Body with Spirit in it.  God can destory a person by separating those two things (the spirit and the body) in the grave and man is in that state when he dies and will remain that way until he is resurected with a new body and spirit added back into it. Read the valley of Dead Bones this clearly shows a resurrection of  bodies and spirit added back into them , Just as Adam was a lifeless body until God added Spirit (intellect) into it and (THEN) he became a “LIVING SOUL”> it is just that simple a Body + Spirit equals a living Soul rather a animal, fish, foul, or a man. Nephseh means a breathing Creature that entails all what a Soul or Nephesh is. separated the breathing from the creature and he no longer is a LIVING Soul. Destroy the body and his Soul no longer exists. This may help. Gen 1:21………And God created great whales, and ever living creature (the word there is mistranslated it should  be Nephesh or SOUL.  Kerwin Check it out brother. peace and love………………………….gene

Gene

I did not know that flesh can ;lie,kill,mock,cheat,mislead,speak good or bad ideas,tell abomination,murder,the flesh is a simple product it needs to eat drink and sleep ,so all other actions are not from the flesh.

I always thought that it was the mind and the hearth of people that does that while in the flesh,

maybe that why there is a judgement comes,after we all have shown what we really are in the flesh.

the flesh is like receiving a car and while we are driving it we are tested and latter judge for are qualification .

Pierre

[Baker]

To All! It seems there is some confusion, what Soul, Body and Spirit is. God is Spirit. What is a Spirit? Can you see a Spirit? No….so we can't see a Spirit. Can we see a fleshly Body? Yes. can we see a Soul? Scripture in
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

It is the body, the body without the Spirit is nothing, its like the dust. God said in Genesis

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Now we know that the Soul is the same then the body. The Spirit is us, the mind what we believe. Without that we are just flesh. Some in the resurrection will only be a Spirit being while others will get a new body of flesh or Soul, those that will inherit the earth. While those that are Spirit the elect will reign with Christ and will see God and Christ. Those that died for Christ and those that stand in front of the Throne of God and worship Him day and night. Those that stand in front of the Throne listed in

Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
I am not sure who these are. I want to believe that we are among them, since we are under Christ blood, but I am not 100 % sure. Anybody knows??

Peace and Love Irene

[terraricca]

Irene

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

did God made a body for the spirit soul and then ,breath of live and became a living soul ??

Pierre

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2011,09:04)

Irene Gen 2:7   And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. did God made a body for the spirit soul and then ,breath of live and became a living soul ?? Pierre

Pierre! You are not understanding what that Scripture in Genesis is saying……God breathed into man and He became a living Soul…..
The body is the same then the Soul.  The Spirit is not the Soul….
Ask yourself what will die?  Is it not the body?

Eze 18:4   Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

From dust you came, and to dust you will return…..
The Spirit goes back to God….

If it would not be for Jesus, who is our ransom we would stay dead…..

Peace and Love Irene

[Proclaimer]

To those who think the soul is not us.

Rev 6:9
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

[Proclaimer]

Gene your body x spirit = soul doesn't work for those souls under the altar of God, unless they are in their body. But they are dead, so surely their bodies are rotting in the ground or have completely broken down.

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 18 2011,22:20)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2011,09:04) Irene Gen 2:7   And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. did God made a body for the spirit soul and then ,breath of live and became a living soul ?? Pierre Pierre! You are not understanding what that Scripture in Genesis is saying……God breathed into man and He became a living Soul….. The body is the same then the Soul.  The Spirit is not the Soul…. Ask yourself what will die?  Is it not the body? Eze 18:4   Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. From dust you came, and to dust you will return….. The Spirit goes back to God…. If it would not be for Jesus, who is our ransom we would stay dead….. Peace and Love Irene

Irene

if the body is the soul ,then what is the spirit ,and like T8 shows in revelation all the souls under the altar ??

I ask;what is the Body ? what is the spirit ?

which is the image ?

Pierre

[kerwin]

To all,

What I learned about the soul from the scriptures I shared with you yesterday is that it can be refreshed, in anguish, grieve, be bitter, delight, pant (thirst, yearn), be downcast, be disturbed, find rest.

I also learned it can be taken along to a sinner’s fate.

Today I will share more scriptures about the soul which come from the KJV instead of the NIV.

Today:

Genesis 19:20

See now, this city is near enough to flee to, and it is a little one; please let me escape there (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.”

Genesis 27:4

And make me savory food, such as I love, and bring it to me that I may eat, that my soul may bless you before I die.”

Genesis 34:3

His soul was strongly attracted to Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the young woman and spoke kindly to the young woman.
Genesis 34:8

But Hamor spoke with them, saying, “The soul of my son Shechem longs for your daughter. Please give her to him as a wife.

Genesis 35:18

And so it was, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-Oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

Genesis 49:6

Let not my soul enter their council;Let not my honor be united to their assembly; For in their anger they slew a man, And in their self-will they hamstrung an ox.

Leviticus 16:29

“This shall be a statute forever for you: In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether a native of your own country or a stranger who dwells among you.

Leviticus 17:11

For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.’

Leviticus 26:15

and if you despise My statutes, or if your soul abhors My judgments, so that you do not perform all My commandments, but break My covenant,

[terraricca]

kerwin and Irene

Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul

so it is the flesh that dies and this in according with Adam s sin.but the soul (spirit of us)go to God ,for resurrection of judgement right ?

Ge 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Ge 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living(active) being.

what would mean “in our image”? and our likeness”?

how is the image of “US” and OUR” ?

and what is the “LIKENESS of US ” ?

Ge 5:3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.
Jesus is also an image,
2Co 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Ge 9:6 “Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man.

Isa 40:18 To whom, then, will you compare God?
What image will you compare him to?

so did the spirit of men was first and then the flesh ??

or both at the same time ?

the breath of live is the breathing of air so man brain and blood start moving I gess here .

Pierre

[GeneBalthrop]

Terricca…………> Again you misquote scripture, it does not say man became a “living being” , but a living Nahesh (SOUL)> Know wonder we can never come to any understanding here you people change scripture to meet you own concepts. Adam before he was a Living Soul was a Dead Soul. A Soul can PARISH (be completely destroyed) in the GRAVE , as Jesus said it could. If i take either one Spirit or Body from a person that person is no longer a living SOUL. God can simply leave us in the Grave and we are gone for ever. Mystery Religion want us to believe a Soul is Separate from our Bodies when in fact it is not separate from a Body.

peace and love……………………………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 18 2011,15:31)

Gene your body x spirit = soul doesn't work for those souls under the altar of God, unless they are in their body. But they are dead, so surely their bodies are rotting in the ground or have completely broken down.

T8………You mixing up Symbolic language with Literal. remember the book of revelations was (SIGNIFIED) or better translated (SYMBOLIZED). All souls appear before GOD is in a Symbolic sense, not a literial sense. Those Souls mentioned there were recorded and in waiting for eternal life after they are resurected. This is a problem here people, mix Symbolic language and Metaphorical and Proverbial and parables up and thinking they are literial when in fact they are not literial most of the time. Jesus spoke in parable so people would NOT Understand what he was saying and that hold true even to today.

T8…. Brother a SOUL is (SIMPLY) a BODY With SPIRIT (IN) IT brother nothing more nothing less. Even animals are living Souls if they are alive and if they are dead the are dead Souls. Mystery Religion confuses and complicates all this by separating man into three parts, a Soul, Spirit , and a BODY. Simply not true T8, man(IS) a LIVING SOUL He Has a body and spirit in it.
When a Man dies his Soul corrupts in the Grave and (THE) Spirit from GOD goes back to GOD, who Gave it in the First Place, and that is the END of That Man, until GOD reconstructs a Body and Adds Spirit back into it. And that Man becomes a Living “Nahesh”, (SOUL) Again. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2011,15:39)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 18 2011,22:20) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2011,09:04) Irene Gen 2:7   And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. did God made a body for the spirit soul and then ,breath of live and became a living soul ?? Pierre Pierre! You are not understanding what that Scripture in Genesis is saying……God breathed into man and He became a living Soul….. The body is the same then the Soul.  The Spirit is not the Soul…. Ask yourself what will die?  Is it not the body? Eze 18:4   Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. From dust you came, and to dust you will return….. The Spirit goes back to God…. If it would not be for Jesus, who is our ransom we would stay dead….. Peace and Love Irene Irene if the body is the soul ,then what is the spirit ,and like T8 shows in revelation all the souls under the altar ?? I ask;what is the Body ? what is the spirit ? which is the image ? Pierre

Pierre! You don't know what the Spirit is?? Come on…..,. What is God?  Read in Math. it explained what the Spirit is….. Scripture in Genesis clearly states that God breathed life into man, and He became a living Soul.  What is it that we became?  Feel your arm….The Soul is not Spirit.  Even t8 is wrong and I told Him too…….You are not thinking straight….And can Spirit die?  No, the Soul that sinnneth it shall die.  Flesh can die, Spirit goes back to God…..Only in the second death, the Lake of Fire, will body and Spirit (Mans) be destroyed.

Also you misquoted Genesis 2:7 it does not say body, but it says Soul.

Just like WJ takes one Scripture over the other, so are you doing. There are more Scriptures saying Soul meaning a body then Soul meaning Spirit. A Spirit can't die. Not yrt….

Eze 18:4   Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: THE SOUL THAT SINNETH IT SHALL DIE.

Not what I say, but what Scripture says.    

Read Genesis again, and again, maybe you will get it…..this time Gene is right…..Peace and Love Irene

[Baker]

Pierre!  Lets take one Scripture at the time that YOU quoted

Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL.

Gen 5:3   And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL

Gen 9:6   Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.  

NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL

2Cr 4:3   But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL

Isa 40:18 ¶ To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?  

AGAIN NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL.

Those that are under the Altar are sleeping in  their graves, it is meant as a METAPHOR.  They are bodies….

Why are you giving us all those Scriptures that have nothing to do with Soul??

Peace Irene

[Baker]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 18 2011,15:27)

To those who think the soul is not us. Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

t8 Those Souls are sleeping in their graves, just like everyone else that died. That Scripture is meant that they are a Soul, not that they have a Soul. Scripture in

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. tell us so….

The body dies or the Soul dies and the Spirit goes back to God that graved….

Peace and Love Irene

We can't take a Scripture out of context, which in this Scripture you did……

[Author]

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