Preexistence

[Ed J]

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 01 2011,01:18)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 31 2011,03:46) Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 30 2011,23:36) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 29 2011,01:36) TheodoreJ………..Indeed God and His words are on and the same, and Jesus certainely Had God the Father (IN) Him as he said he did. But none of that makes Jesus the creator of anything, He is unique in this sense he was the (first) from man kind to be raised unto eternal life and has the glory and honor of the first born of man brothers and sisters, He has all seven of the Sprits of GOD on him , he has been grately blessed by God that is for sure, But to move his likeness away from our in most surely Antichrist teachings, and comes from false Christian greek mythology of man gods and women having childern with their pagan gods,. God was not dealing Morphed beings or other Gods or demigods, he was dealing with MAN KIND . Jesus said 87 times He was a SON OF MAN, He certainely did not seperate Himself from us at any time in his life. This whole concept of Jesus being something different in its very nature has a seperating effect it makes him different then we are and that brakes down our sense of relating with him in human terms and the is truly against Christ. Think about it. theordorej………….Type in DENCK and read what he wrote, i believe it will help brother. peace and love……………………………………gene Greetings Gene…..Before I read Denck….The personage that is Jesus did not exist physically at the time of creation,however,the Word of The Eternal did and that was the means by which all things were created….That same word became flesh and lived among us….That same word was God,That same word was with God….Gods ways and understanding is higher than ours….To underestimate the ability of the Eternal is folly on our behalf…and to try and equate it to our reasoning and understanding is to miss the purpose of his word which is for education and correction… Hi Theodore J, And “The Word” also inspired men to write the bible. 2Peter 1:21 For the prophecy(The Bible) came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the HolySpirit. So now you know who “The Word” really is! Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak (The Word), but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Greetings Ed….. The word was penned by men….the inspiration was of the spirit….

Hi Theodore J,

Did it sound (to you) like I was saying something different?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

To All…………The “WORD” is GOD and NOT Jesus, and GOD was (IN) Jesus Speaking through Him. But that does not make the person Jesus speaking GODS Words, GOD, no more then if your were to Speak GOD'S Word that would make you GOD. There are seven Spirits of one GOD and those all seven spirits can indwell anyone GOD Choses to put them in, man or angels. Jesus had them (IN) him when he was on the earth and still does now as Revelations Says he does. IMO

peace and love to you all………………………………………….gene

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 01 2011,02:20)

To All…………The “WORD” is GOD and NOT Jesus, and GOD was (IN) Jesus Speaking through Him.  But that does not make the person Jesus speaking GODS Words,  GOD,  no more then if your were to Speak GOD'S Word that would make you GOD. There are seven Spirits of one GOD and those all seven spirits can indwell anyone GOD Choses to put them in, man or angels.  Jesus had them (IN) him when he was on the earth and still does now as Revelations Says he does. IMO peace and love to you all………………………………………….gene

Hi Gene,

Excellent Post! Here's the Scriptural backing:
Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but
the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 01 2011,02:20)

To All…………The “WORD” is GOD and NOT Jesus, and GOD was (IN) Jesus Speaking through Him.  But that does not make the person Jesus speaking GODS Words,  GOD,  no more then if your were to Speak GOD'S Word that would make you GOD. There are seven Spirits of one GOD and those all seven spirits can indwell anyone GOD Choses to put them in, man or angels.  Jesus had them (IN) him when he was on the earth and still does now as Revelations Says he does. IMO peace and love to you all………………………………………….gene

Have you ever tried to sell your fantasy's to the History Chanel? they produce all sorts of weird scenarios when it comes to the Bible; just a thought.

Georg

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 01 2011,02:36)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 31 2011,13:56) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 31 2011,17:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:45) Ed, Pick a point and ask a question about it.  Your post of hundreds of words of scripture says nothing to me about your understanding.   Btw, if Jesus is the one who sowed the good seed, then the referrence to the seed being the “word of God” is a different referrence than Jesus being called the “Word of God” because he is God's spokesman.  For Jesus did not sow himself, did he? mike Hi Mike, Jesus baptizing us with the “HolySpirit” and the Son of man planting the Good seed are one and the same; you never considered this? And with fire, because YHVH is the fire. (Hebrews 12:29) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj being baptised ,in the name of Jesus ? being baptised ,in the name of the father ? being baptised in the holy spirit ? could you answer those questions ?? Pierre Hi Pierre, Those are incomplete questions? To illustrate this: you try to answer this question… Being born, with the name John?   Could you answer this question ?? eD j (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

being born or have been given a name ,is all part of the process,

if you do not exist you do not need a name.

but now answer my questions ,??

Pierre

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 01 2011,01:24)

Georg……….What? i am putting a spin by quoting what Mike has just said, Georg, that is the reason you preexistences never come to understanding  you block yourself from even reading things Posted rightly. This is caused by your preconditioning of past false teachings of Preexistence and your Trinitarian past association,  IMO. peace and love………………………………………….gene

Gene!  Wrong, we never learned that in any Church we ever belonged to.  Someone told us about it, and we said, no He is crazy.  But we also started to search and see if that person was right or wrong.  
It was God's Holy Spirit that taught us.  You don't seem to understand that in John1:1-14 is talking about two beings.  It says” There was the Word and the Word was with God. '  when I say there was Kim Old, and Kim Old was with Robert Old, those are two not just one.  What you fall over is that it says The Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  That is why I gave you the comparison in Rev, 19 where it explains it.  But you just don't want to see that…..Just like God is a title, so is “The Word of God.” and both Jesus and His Father have other names.  Rev. 19 tells us that Jesus will come back as The Word of God….
also in
Jhn 17:3   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.  

Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.  

Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.  

Now if it is like you say, then Jesus went back how? Back into Gods mind??? now that makes no sense.  Also the trinatarians believe that Jesus always existed we don't….Jesus had a beginning Col.1:15-17 and Rev.3;14 tells us so….And please don't come back at me with senseless attacks, that we have etc. NO WE GO BY WHAT SCRIPTURES SAY, YOU WANT TO INTERPRET THEM YOUR WAY, WE READ THEM THE WAY THEY ARE WRITTEN.  NOT OUT OF CONTEXT EITHER….
Also you say we read them by our preconditioned view.  Tell me when it says in Col. and Rev.that Jesus s the firstborn of all creation, and that through Him He created all, how do we interpret that? We say He is the firstborn of ALL, ALL creation, that includes us, the Angels and everything on Earth and in Heaven verse 16……and you say WHAT?
Peace Irene

[Baker]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 01 2011,02:25)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 01 2011,02:20) To All…………The “WORD” is GOD and NOT Jesus, and GOD was (IN) Jesus Speaking through Him.  But that does not make the person Jesus speaking GODS Words,  GOD,  no more then if your were to Speak GOD'S Word that would make you GOD. There are seven Spirits of one GOD and those all seven spirits can indwell anyone GOD Choses to put them in, man or angels.  Jesus had them (IN) him when he was on the earth and still does now as Revelations Says he does. IMO peace and love to you all………………………………………….gene Hi Gene, Excellent Post! Here's the Scriptural backing: Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed I thought you said you believed in the preexisting of Jesus????I ask you too!!! What about Rev. `19:13-16? To compare the two Scriptures.
Irene

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:38)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:34) The glory is that which he received of God His Father when He brought him forth into this world as His Only Begotten Son and anointed him as His Christ, and savior of all mankind, and as his heir, and that he exalted him to His right hand as head of the church as Lord and Christ, and to be the judge of the Living and the dead. God had forseen all of this before he created the world, and that is what is meant. Hi Marty, Sure, GOD had forseen all this.  But how was Jesus aware of any “glory” he had before he even existed?   You say the glory is that which he received when he was brought into this world.  But Jesus speaks of a glory he had before the world even existed. mike

Hi Mike:

Let's take a look at the scriptures:

Jesus said:

Quote

Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.   Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was

At the Age of 12, we see Jesus in the Synagogue discussing the scriptures with the scribes, and saying that he must be about His Father's business, and to the Pharisees he said, “Abraham desired to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”, and he said, “before Abraham was, I am”, and so, God showed him what his ministry would be after he was born into the world.

Note the scripture states: “I have glorified thee on earth, I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.”

And then he says,“and now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self” (present tense)  I believe here is speaking of his exaltation to the right hand of the Father as head of the church.

God had forseen that His plan for humanity would be fulfilled through his Son.  

And so, to your question, Jesus knew because God showed him this after he was born into this world.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Baker]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2011,06:54)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:38) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:34) The glory is that which he received of God His Father when He brought him forth into this world as His Only Begotten Son and anointed him as His Christ, and savior of all mankind, and as his heir, and that he exalted him to His right hand as head of the church as Lord and Christ, and to be the judge of the Living and the dead. God had forseen all of this before he created the world, and that is what is meant. Hi Marty, Sure, GOD had forseen all this.  But how was Jesus aware of any “glory” he had before he even existed?   You say the glory is that which he received when he was brought into this world.  But Jesus speaks of a glory he had before the world even existed. mike Hi Mike: Let's take a look at the scriptures: Jesus said: Quote Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.   Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was At the Age of 12, we see Jesus in the Synagogue discussing the scriptures with the scribes, and saying that he must be about His Father's business, and to the Pharisees he said, “Abraham desired to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”, and he said, “before Abraham was, I am”, and so, God showed him what his ministry would be after he was born into the world. Note the scripture states: “I have glorified thee on earth, I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.” And then he says,“and now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self” (present tense)  I believe here is speaking of his exaltation to the right hand of the Father as head of the church. God had forseen that His plan for humanity would be fulfilled through his Son.   And so, to your question, Jesus knew because God showed him this after he was born into this world. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty!  Are you not leaving some of that Scripture out?
Jesus wanted His glory back which He had with His Father before the world was,  that is what you leave out.

And also this

Jhn 8:57   Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?  

Jhn 8:58   Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.  

How in the world can you see something else in this Scripture?

He was there before Abraham was…..not in any mind or whatever, man that is what I call interpreting Scripture according to man… not God….

Peace Irene

[942767]

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 01 2011,07:18)

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2011,06:54) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:38) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:34) The glory is that which he received of God His Father when He brought him forth into this world as His Only Begotten Son and anointed him as His Christ, and savior of all mankind, and as his heir, and that he exalted him to His right hand as head of the church as Lord and Christ, and to be the judge of the Living and the dead. God had forseen all of this before he created the world, and that is what is meant. Hi Marty, Sure, GOD had forseen all this.  But how was Jesus aware of any “glory” he had before he even existed?   You say the glory is that which he received when he was brought into this world.  But Jesus speaks of a glory he had before the world even existed. mike Hi Mike: Let's take a look at the scriptures: Jesus said: Quote Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.   Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was At the Age of 12, we see Jesus in the Synagogue discussing the scriptures with the scribes, and saying that he must be about His Father's business, and to the Pharisees he said, “Abraham desired to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”, and he said, “before Abraham was, I am”, and so, God showed him what his ministry would be after he was born into the world. Note the scripture states: “I have glorified thee on earth, I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.” And then he says,“and now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self” (present tense)  I believe here is speaking of his exaltation to the right hand of the Father as head of the church. God had forseen that His plan for humanity would be fulfilled through his Son.   And so, to your question, Jesus knew because God showed him this after he was born into this world. Love in Christ, Marty Marty!  Are you not leaving some of that Scripture out? Jesus wanted His glory back which He had with His Father before the world was,  that is what you leave out. And also this Jhn 8:57   Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?   Jhn 8:58   Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.   How in the world can you see something else in this Scripture? He was there before Abraham was…..not in any mind or whatever, man that is what I call interpreting Scripture according to man… not God…. Peace Irene

No, Irene, Jesus did not say anything about wanting some of the glory back that he had with the Father before the world was. You are adding that word “back”. That is not what he said.

Jesus said: “Abraham desired to see my day and he saw it and was glad”. God had shown Abraham that through his seed all nations of the earth would be blessed, and when he tested Abraham with sacrificing Isaac on Mount Moriah, God provided a ram for the sacrifice. This was symbolic of God providing Jesus as the sacrifice through whom all nations of the earth would be blessed.

Abraham died in faith believing God's promises.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Ed J]

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 01 2011,06:29)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 01 2011,02:25) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 01 2011,02:20) To All…………The “WORD” is GOD and NOT Jesus, and GOD was (IN) Jesus Speaking through Him.  But that does not make the person Jesus speaking GODS Words,  GOD,  no more then if your were to Speak GOD'S Word that would make you GOD. There are seven Spirits of one GOD and those all seven spirits can indwell anyone GOD Choses to put them in, man or angels.  Jesus had them (IN) him when he was on the earth and still does now as Revelations Says he does. IMO peace and love to you all………………………………………….gene Hi Gene, Excellent Post! Here's the Scriptural backing: Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed  I thought you said you believed in the preexisting of Jesus????I ask you too!!! What about Rev. `19:13-16? To compare the two Scriptures.   Irene

Hi Irene,

I believe we all pre-existed are birth on Earth.
Compare Rev.19:11-21 with Isaiah 63:2-10,
both refer to the HolySpirit as “The Word”!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Baker]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2011,08:06)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 01 2011,07:18) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2011,06:54) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:38) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:34) The glory is that which he received of God His Father when He brought him forth into this world as His Only Begotten Son and anointed him as His Christ, and savior of all mankind, and as his heir, and that he exalted him to His right hand as head of the church as Lord and Christ, and to be the judge of the Living and the dead. God had forseen all of this before he created the world, and that is what is meant. Hi Marty, Sure, GOD had forseen all this.  But how was Jesus aware of any “glory” he had before he even existed?   You say the glory is that which he received when he was brought into this world.  But Jesus speaks of a glory he had before the world even existed. mike Hi Mike: Let's take a look at the scriptures: Jesus said: Quote Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.   Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was At the Age of 12, we see Jesus in the Synagogue discussing the scriptures with the scribes, and saying that he must be about His Father's business, and to the Pharisees he said, “Abraham desired to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”, and he said, “before Abraham was, I am”, and so, God showed him what his ministry would be after he was born into the world. Note the scripture states: “I have glorified thee on earth, I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.” And then he says,“and now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self” (present tense)  I believe here is speaking of his exaltation to the right hand of the Father as head of the church. God had forseen that His plan for humanity would be fulfilled through his Son.   And so, to your question, Jesus knew because God showed him this after he was born into this world. Love in Christ, Marty Marty!  Are you not leaving some of that Scripture out? Jesus wanted His glory back which He had with His Father before the world was,  that is what you leave out. And also this Jhn 8:57   Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?   Jhn 8:58   Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.   How in the world can you see something else in this Scripture? He was there before Abraham was…..not in any mind or whatever, man that is what I call interpreting Scripture according to man… not God…. Peace Irene No, Irene, Jesus did not say anything about wanting some of the glory back that he had with the Father before the world was.  You are adding that word “back”.  That is not what he said. Jesus said:  “Abraham desired to see my day and he saw it and was glad”.  God had shown Abraham that through his seed all nations of the earth would be blessed, and when he tested Abraham with sacrificing Isaac on Mount Moriah, God provided a ram for the sacrifice.  This was symbolic of God providing Jesus as the sacrifice through whom all nations of the earth would be blessed. Abraham died in faith believing God's promises. Love in Christ, Marty

Quote
Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.  

Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which “””I had with “thee” before the world was”””

read and weep Georg

[Baker]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2011,08:06)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 01 2011,07:18) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2011,06:54) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:38) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:34) The glory is that which he received of God His Father when He brought him forth into this world as His Only Begotten Son and anointed him as His Christ, and savior of all mankind, and as his heir, and that he exalted him to His right hand as head of the church as Lord and Christ, and to be the judge of the Living and the dead. God had forseen all of this before he created the world, and that is what is meant. Hi Marty, Sure, GOD had forseen all this.  But how was Jesus aware of any “glory” he had before he even existed?   You say the glory is that which he received when he was brought into this world.  But Jesus speaks of a glory he had before the world even existed. mike Hi Mike: Let's take a look at the scriptures: Jesus said: Quote Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.   Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was At the Age of 12, we see Jesus in the Synagogue discussing the scriptures with the scribes, and saying that he must be about His Father's business, and to the Pharisees he said, “Abraham desired to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”, and he said, “before Abraham was, I am”, and so, God showed him what his ministry would be after he was born into the world. Note the scripture states: “I have glorified thee on earth, I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.” And then he says,“and now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self” (present tense)  I believe here is speaking of his exaltation to the right hand of the Father as head of the church. God had forseen that His plan for humanity would be fulfilled through his Son.   And so, to your question, Jesus knew because God showed him this after he was born into this world. Love in Christ, Marty Marty!  Are you not leaving some of that Scripture out? Jesus wanted His glory back which He had with His Father before the world was,  that is what you leave out. And also this Jhn 8:57   Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?   Jhn 8:58   Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.   How in the world can you see something else in this Scripture? He was there before Abraham was…..not in any mind or whatever, man that is what I call interpreting Scripture according to man… not God…. Peace Irene No, Irene, Jesus did not say anything about wanting some of the glory back that he had with the Father before the world was.  You are adding that word “back”.  That is not what he said. Jesus said:  “Abraham desired to see my day and he saw it and was glad”.  God had shown Abraham that through his seed all nations of the earth would be blessed, and when he tested Abraham with sacrificing Isaac on Mount Moriah, God provided a ram for the sacrifice.  This was symbolic of God providing Jesus as the sacrifice through whom all nations of the earth would be blessed. Abraham died in faith believing God's promises. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty!

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was….

AND NOW O FATHER GLORIFY THOU ME WITH THINE OWN SELF WITH THE GLORY WHICH I I I I (JESUS) HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
This is a Scripture I did not add this……

And Jesus also said this in

Jhn 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

What you are saying is right, however you don't want to believe that what Jesus said, it is not my saying it is Jesus saying…….Jesus said:” VERILY, VERILY, I SAY UNTO YOU, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM……

This is not my saying, again, not my saying, I did not add anything….you are denying it…..Irene

BTW all Scriptures taken from the Blue letter Bible from the Internet. Copied and pasted…..

[Baker]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 01 2011,09:39)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 01 2011,06:29) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 01 2011,02:25) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 01 2011,02:20) To All…………The “WORD” is GOD and NOT Jesus, and GOD was (IN) Jesus Speaking through Him.  But that does not make the person Jesus speaking GODS Words,  GOD,  no more then if your were to Speak GOD'S Word that would make you GOD. There are seven Spirits of one GOD and those all seven spirits can indwell anyone GOD Choses to put them in, man or angels.  Jesus had them (IN) him when he was on the earth and still does now as Revelations Says he does. IMO peace and love to you all………………………………………….gene Hi Gene, Excellent Post! Here's the Scriptural backing: Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed  I thought you said you believed in the preexisting of Jesus????I ask you too!!! What about Rev. `19:13-16? To compare the two Scriptures.   Irene Hi Irene, I believe we all pre-existed are birth on Earth. Compare Rev.19:11-21 with Isaiah 63:2-10, both refer to the HolySpirit as “The Word”! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed!  Can you say Father give me back the glory I had with Thee before the world was??   And remember that Jesus now is a Spirit Being…..To that He asked His Father to go back to……
To even be able to say what Jesus did shows that He was aware of where He came from.  
Jesus is the literal Son of God, not from the dust of the earth like we are.  Jesus came forth from the Father….but of course that is wisdom….. but wisdom is inside of God and not beside of God and His delight day and night….He was beside God as a master craftsman….And then we have Col. and Rev. where through Jesus all was created.  Have you done anything like that, or remember doing anything like that??Give me a break…Irene

[GeneBalthrop]

Irene……….where did Jesus say give me “BACK” any glory he had with the Farther, see you preexistences alway have to ADD Words to draw you false conclusions. Jesus had the Glory with the Father before he ever was Born Just as Cyrus and other had as well as all the Saints also have this Glory even though they have not yet recieved that Glory it is reserved in the heavens. Just as it says we sit with Christ in Heavenly places it speaks as if it already happened even though it has not YET happened. It was in the Will an Plan of GOD from the very beginning.

peace and love………………………………gene

[Baker]

Gene!
Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Verse 3 shows us that God send His Son. just like

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

if I say Georg send me from Home! Do you believe that I came from Home? Well I do. And so I believe Jesus who said God His Father send Him from Heaven…..

Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

There are several scriptures beside these that show me at least that Jesus was before the world began or was…..
He is also the firstborn of all creation…..
I said all of that before, sorry Gene but I will never deny what Jesus has said…..I don't care what label you give me….
Peace Irene

[theodorej]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 01 2011,01:46)

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 01 2011,01:18) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 31 2011,03:46) Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 30 2011,23:36) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 29 2011,01:36) TheodoreJ………..Indeed God and His words are on and the same, and Jesus certainely Had God the Father (IN) Him as he said he did. But none of that makes Jesus the creator of anything, He is unique in this sense he was the (first) from man kind to be raised unto eternal life and has the glory and honor of the first born of man brothers and sisters, He has all seven of the Sprits of GOD on him , he has been grately blessed by God that is for sure, But to move his likeness away from our in most surely Antichrist teachings, and comes from false Christian greek mythology of man gods and women having childern with their pagan gods,. God was not dealing Morphed beings or other Gods or demigods, he was dealing with MAN KIND . Jesus said 87 times He was a SON OF MAN, He certainely did not seperate Himself from us at any time in his life. This whole concept of Jesus being something different in its very nature has a seperating effect it makes him different then we are and that brakes down our sense of relating with him in human terms and the is truly against Christ. Think about it. theordorej………….Type in DENCK and read what he wrote, i believe it will help brother. peace and love……………………………………gene Greetings Gene…..Before I read Denck….The personage that is Jesus did not exist physically at the time of creation,however,the Word of The Eternal did and that was the means by which all things were created….That same word became flesh and lived among us….That same word was God,That same word was with God….Gods ways and understanding is higher than ours….To underestimate the ability of the Eternal is folly on our behalf…and to try and equate it to our reasoning and understanding is to miss the purpose of his word which is for education and correction… Hi Theodore J, And “The Word” also inspired men to write the bible. 2Peter 1:21 For the prophecy(The Bible) came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the HolySpirit. So now you know who “The Word” really is! Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak (The Word), but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Greetings Ed….. The word was penned by men….the inspiration was of the spirit…. Hi Theodore J, Did it sound (to you) like I was saying something different? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Greetings Ed…… We agree on this point,notwithstanding the choice of words used in expression….you are a learning experience that just keeps giving….

[Baker]

Theo! And that Word of God became flesh, and will come back to strike the nation…..is that Jehovah God too? Not all when it says Word is Jehovah God 's Word, why is it that you and others can't see the compassion. that is what we are debating here on this tread. However to say that the Holy Spirit is the Word of God , is far out…..that makes it sound like a person, because that Word became flesh….. The Holy Spirit became flesh??

Peace Irene

[942767]

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 02 2011,03:09)

Gene!   Jhn 17:3   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.   Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.   Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.   Verse 3 shows us that God send His Son.  just like Jhn 6:39   And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.   Jhn 6:40   And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.   if I say Georg send me from Home!  Do you believe that I came from Home?  Well I do.  And so I believe Jesus who said God His Father send Him from Heaven….. Jhn 6:38   For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.   There are several scriptures beside these that show me at least that Jesus was before the world began or was….. He is also the firstborn of all creation….. I said all of that before, sorry Gene but I will never deny what Jesus has said…..I don't care what label you give me…. Peace Irene

Hi Irene:

Relative to Jesus being sent from heaven: Was Jesus conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary?

Is not God's Throne in Heaven?

And it as God speaking to humanity through Jesus. Is God's throne not in heaven?

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32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven;but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. And so, John 3:16 states: “For God so loved the world that he have his only begotten Son, that whosover believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life”.

Hebrews 1 states:

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Hebrews 1 1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

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John 6:51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

In the foregoing scripture he is speaking of his body of flesh. and it was this body that was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary, and it was in this body that God was speaking to humanity through him, and it was in this body that Jesus obeyed God without sin even unto death on the cross.

In the following verses of scripture Jesus was making it clear that it was through the Word of God that he obeyed and that God had spoken to humanity that we have eternal life. This is the bread of life, but of course, the blood that was shed for us is also part of that Word.

Quote

63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Ed J]

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 02 2011,05:27)

The Holy Spirit became flesh?

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 02 2011,03:55)

Ed   …you are a learning experience that just keeps giving….

Hi Irene and Theodore J,

                   “The Word” maketh the Son (Isaiah 7:14)

Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but
The Word(The Seed is HolySpirit) of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son(Jesus Christ), who is consecrated for evermore.

                                YHVH(63) = Color(63)
                                Connecting the dots

“The Word([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs) was made flesh, and dwelt among us” (John 1:14)
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible” (1Peter 1:23)
“The Word([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs) of God grew and multiplied.” (Acts 12:24)
“The seed is The Word([ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs) of God.” (Luke 8:11)

                   Understanding “The Truth”! (John 17:17)

2Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that [HolySpirit] was in Christ, reconciling
the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us “The Word” of reconciliation.
John 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because
ye have been with me from the beginning.
Matt.10:20 For it is not ye that speak,
but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

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