Preexistence

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,10:10)

So keeping discussions as discussions is good, debates as well. But people becoming personal, turning one against another etc, that needs to be stopped.

We should all start heeding those words Shimmer…..even you.

Will you answer my last post to you?  I believe I asked you if you agree with JA that Christ pre-existed, or if you believe that Gene shows good fruits by preaching that he didn't?

It can't be both, you know.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 01 2010,10:56)

Mike ………God (WAS) Truly (IN) Jesus , Don't you believe it ,

Hi Gene,

I made many solid points and asked many direct questions in my last post to you.  I researched and worked long and hard on it.  You bring a reply to only ONE thing we discussed, and then repost your beliefs about one other thing we discussed – without posting or replying to how I already answered that point.  

And what was the point you thought was worth answering?  The PERSONAL point of whether I lied about you or not.  None of the scriptural ones.

Try again.  Answer my direct points and direct questions, and I will keep discussing with you.  But I won't keep addressing your points while you ignore mine.  Fair enough?

peace and love,
mike

[shimmer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,13:06)

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,10:10) So keeping discussions as discussions is good, debates as well. But people becoming personal, turning one against another etc, that needs to be stopped. We should all start heeding those words Shimmer…..even you. Will you answer my last post to you?  I believe I asked you if you agree with JA that Christ pre-existed, or if you believe that Gene shows good fruits by preaching that he didn't? It can't be both, you know. peace and love, mike

Mike, I have tried to heed those words, but how can I try when someone still seems to hold personal grudges and ignores me? I dont want that.

I believe the word pre-existed. I believe all was created through the word, so I do believe in pre-existance, but of the word, the spirit son of God. Who was in Jesus. Jesus never pre-existed, but the word which was in him did. The word was spirit, the spirit became flesh.

Thats how I see it. I have prayed for what it all means, but had nothing shown to me, I still feel confused thinking about it. If I pray for other things, I get shown clearly. Example trying to help someone etc. Or asking for guidance in life on a matter. But this…nothing.

[mikeboll64]

Hi Shimmer,

Thanks for you honest answer.  It's just that you told JA:

Hi JA, thanks,

I always believed Jesus pre-existed, it was never an issue for me. I never even thought about it.

And that's how I got to thinking you disagreed with Gene, but still considered HIM the one who was showing good fruit.

But now I see your understanding is closer to Gene's.  Now it is making sense to me.  I was confused by the word “Jesus” in your post, I guess.

Okay……….NOW I'll drop it!

peace and love,
mike

[shimmer]

Mike, I HAD always believed Jesus pre-existed, but could never understand HOW Jesus came to be born as Jesus, so now i see it wasnt the flesh side of Jesus which pre-existed, it was a normal body, born as we are, but it was the spirit which was in him, the pre-existant word, I call the word the son of God, so Im not thinking like Gene either. What I believe is scriptual, from what I can see.

Do I believe the word is the son of God ? Yes.
Do I believe the word pre-existed ? Yes,
Do I believe all was created through the son (the word)? Yes.
Do i believe the word was made flesh ? Yes.
Do I believe the word manifested to others throughout the old testement writings ? Yes,

The word was in the flesh, in the man Jesus.

[Baker]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 31 2010,17:46)

Irene, I agree that God was not made flesh.  The evidence seems to show that the translators incorrectly translated the common Greek “ginomai” to the English word “made” as there are other possible translations that fit the whole context of scripture better. I also agree that the Word of God is one of many titles for Jesus as he is the fulfillment of the word just as he taught.   He is not the literal Word of God. I agree that it was by God’s literal word that the old and new creations came to be.  I also agree that the Spirit of God is not only his righteous Spirit but also the active force of creation.  God speaks and the Spirit acts. I agree that Jesus is not the King of the old creation but he is King of the new creation because if he was King of the old then there would be no need of a new one. Preeminence means superior or notable above all others.  This is true as he is King of the new creation. Scriptures are not meant to be clear.  They are meant to appeal to the Spirit of God that brings one to Christ.  Those not so led will go astray following the letter but not God’s intent.  God’s fundamental intent is to create a people that are righteous as he is righteous for only such a people will glorify his name.

kerwin! What you are saying to me makes no sense. There are several Scriptures that the translators incorrectly translated. That
I don;t believe. I can see one Scripture, but not several.
These are

Mic 5:2 ¶ But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Col 1:19 ¶ For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jhn 1:6 ¶ There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.

Jhn 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe.

Jhn 1:8 He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light.

Jhn 1:9 [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Since God send Jesus into the world, He had to be somewhere. And John 6 twells us that He was in Heaven with His Father….

Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

How can all these Scriptures not be true???

If there were one Scripture, I could go along with you, but not this many……..

When The Word of Giod is plainly explained in Rev, 19, it makes it clear who The Word of God is……..And He was with God, as the Spokesman of God since no one has seen Jehovah God or heard His voice…….

Peace and Love Irene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 01 2010,12:35)

Mike, I HAD always believed Jesus pre-existed, but could never understand HOW Jesus came to be born as Jesus, so now i see it wasnt the flesh side of Jesus which pre-existed, it was a normal body, born as we are, but it was the spirit which was in him, the pre-existant word, I call the word the son of God, so Im not thinking like Gene either. What I believe is scriptual, from what I can see. Do I believe the word is the son of God ? Yes. Do I believe the word pre-existed ? Yes, Do I believe all was created through the son (the word)? Yes. Do i believe the word was made flesh ? Yes. Do I believe the word manifested to others throughout the old testement writings ? Yes, The word was in the flesh, in the man Jesus.

Hi Shimmer,

Then you and I are not so far off on our beliefs afterall. I can get behind almost everything you say. My only differences are:

1. I see no reason to believe Jesus was not always the name of the Son of God.

2. Instead of the Son of God “filling” the earthly man Jesus, I believe Jesus to BE the Son of God made flesh.

3. I believe God used Jesus in the OT for various tasks, but I don't think Isaiah, for instance, was another occasion of the Son/Word of God being made flesh.

peace and love,
mike

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 01 2010,00:35)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 01 2010,01:06) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 31 2010,10:54) shimmer i got a question for you;is anyone who has knowledge and does not follow Christ and his apostles teachings,are called antichrist,it is not  those who do not know  Christ came in the flesh, right?? Pierre Hi Terraricca, Is BD getting to you? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj no,but i think i start to get on his nerves Pierre

Hi Terraricca,

HA Ha ha aha ha ha!!!!

eD j
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,04:55)

Ed: Quote Hi Mike, Good questions! 1) He came to Jesus in a bodily shape like a dove. (Luke 3:22) If it was God who came to be inside Jesus in the shape of a dove, then who was the voice from heaven saying, “This is my Son”? mike

Hi Mike,

1) Are you suggesting: God(HolySpirit) cannot be inside
of Jesus and out side Jesus at the same time? (Psalm 139:7:12)

I have to separate your questions as I need more room to expound.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,04:55)

Ed: Quote 2) This parable explains question #2… Sorry Ed.  I don't see how the parable of the Good Samaritan explains how our God can die. mike

Hi Mike,

2) Jesus was the one going from the City of Peace(Jerusalem)
to the city of the moon(Jericho) to save the sinners of the world!
It's pretty simple: consider Jesus lineage, God inside of Jesus could NOT die…

                        Jesus lineage explained

“Son of Man”: 25%; Mary's mother's lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
“Son of Man”: 25%: Mary's father's lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
“Son of God”: 50%: Jesus' Father was the “HolySpirit”; NOT Joseph! (Mathew 1:18 / Mathew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)

Birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God)(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
Baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the HolySpirit(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)

Here is why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”…

                   Mother         Father
                    Mary         HolySpirit
                     50%           50%
                         \              /
                           \          /
                             Jesus
                            /        \
                          /            \        
                        /                \
              Son of Man     Son of God
             (Mark 6:3)        (Luke 1:35)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,04:55)

Ed: Quote 3) God The Father raised Jesus up. (Galatians 1:1) So God “left” Jesus' body before Jesus was killed?  At which point did this happen?  When he was being whipped?  Spat upon?  Nailed to the stake?  And what about all those prayers Jesus made TO God?  Was it really God praying to Himself in heaven? This is also what Gene overlooks.  He says the Word is the literal words of God, and Jesus spoke nothing but them.  But that means when Jesus prayed to his God, it was really God praying to Himself.   mike

Hi Mike,

You will not understand the answer to these questions in a short little Post. (John 16:12-16)
I explain these questions in Chapters 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 of The free e-book I wrote,
which I will e-mail it to you if you really want to know these answers;
then I can explain further if you are still having trouble; OK?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,04:55)

Ed: Quote Hi Mike, Good questions! 1) He came to Jesus in a bodily shape like a dove. (Luke 3:22) If it was God who came to be inside Jesus in the shape of a dove, then who was the voice from heaven saying, “This is my Son”? Ed: Quote 2) This parable explains question #2… Sorry Ed.  I don't see how the parable of the Good Samaritan explains how our God can die. Ed: Quote 3) God The Father raised Jesus up. (Galatians 1:1) So God “left” Jesus' body before Jesus was killed?  At which point did this happen?  When he was being whipped?  Spat upon?  Nailed to the stake?  And what about all those prayers Jesus made TO God?  Was it really God praying to Himself in heaven? This is also what Gene overlooks.  He says the Word is the literal words of God, and Jesus spoke nothing but them.  But that means when Jesus prayed to his God, it was really God praying to Himself.   Ed: Quote 4) The same way all fathers have glory when they have a son. It doesn't say the Word had the glory of a Father who has a son.  It says the Word had the glory of an only begotten [son] FROM the Father. Ed: Quote 5) Webster's Collegiate Dictionary… Became: came into existence, came to be, underwent change. “The Word BECAME flesh”.  Did God “come into existence” as flesh?  Did God “come to be” a flesh being?  Did God “undergo change” to BECOME a flesh being?  Any way you slice it, your understanding has God Himself becoming a flesh being. mike

Hi Mike,

Take off those religiously filtered glasses you keep seeing Scripture through
“and consider” what I have been trying to tell you for over 6 months now.

                                Glory(77) = Christ(77) (1Peter 1:10-11)

4) John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his(God's) glory,
the (Spiritual) glory as (inside the Messiah) of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,04:56)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,16:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 31 2010,05:44) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,04:31) NOBODY would think that your spokesman was your word. And if you said you gave you word, others would think that you will keep your promise! Hi Ed, Why God’s Son is called “the Word.” A title often describes the function served or the duty performed by the bearer. So it was with the title Kal-Hatzé, meaning “the voice or word of the king,” that was given an Abyssinian officer. Based on his travels from 1768 to 1773, James Bruce describes the duties of the Kal-Hatzé as follows. He stood by a window covered with a curtain through which, unseen inside, the king spoke to this officer. He then conveyed the message to the persons or party concerned. Thus the Kal-Hatzé acted as the word or voice of the Abyssinian king.—Travels to Discover the Source of the Nile, London, 1790, Vol. III, p. 265; Vol. IV, p. 76. peace and love, mike Hi Mike, There are many who mis-understand what Matt.18:16 really means! Matt.18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word “[ [ [ may ] ] ] be established”. This does NOT mean that if you don't believe me I will go and get Bob and Pete and they will tell you the same thing, so you better believe what I tell you! This is a common fallacy, believed by many BABY Christians. THIS TACTIC WILL NOT WORK! PERIOD!! Why do so many try this futile tactic? There is no peace (Ezekiel 13:10-12) or love using this tactic (Isaiah 54:17)! What Matt.18:16 really means is: when someone hears “Bible Truth” spoken by more than one,   but using different words, the truth hits home in the ears of the hearer, helping to establish truth for them! That is also what 1Cor.14:24 means… 1Corinthians 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I don't understand your answer, Ed.  Do you refute that the Abyssinian King had a spokesman who was referred to as “his word”? What does your post actually answer? mike

Hi Mike,

I don't care to argue religious philosophy; no interest.
If ‘you want to’ discuss the meanings of “Bible verses”,
then I'll participate in an open discussion with all; OK?

Who you agree with or who agrees with you
makes NO difference to me! (1John 4:4)

1John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them(of the world):
because greater is he(YHVH) that is in you(Ed J), than he that is in the world.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,04:56)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,16:55) Hi Mike, There are many who mis-understand what Matt.18:16 really means! Matt.18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word “[ [ [ may ] ] ] be established”. This does NOT mean that if you don't believe me I will go and get Bob and Pete and they will tell you the same thing, so you better believe what I tell you! This is a common fallacy, believed by many BABY Christians. THIS TACTIC WILL NOT WORK! PERIOD!! Why do so many try this futile tactic? There is no peace (Ezekiel 13:10-12) or love using this tactic (Isaiah 54:17)! What Matt.18:16 really means is: when someone hears “Bible Truth” spoken by more than one,   but using different words, the truth hits home in the ears of the hearer, helping to establish truth for them! That is also what 1Cor.14:24 means… 1Corinthians 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I don't understand your answer, Ed.   What does your post actually answer? mike

Hi Mike,

           The part that you don't understand yet.

Thinking that bringing to the table those who agree with you
means absolutely nothing and does not strengthen
your position at all; PERIOD! (Isaiah 28:2-17)

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,04:59)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,17:04) Hi Mike, There is no indefinite article in Greek! John 2:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. You are correct…..remember that for my next post.  Thankfully, the do have a genetive form that they use to show possesion. So by understanding “the Spirit OF God”, we can figure out that God has A Spirit. Agreed? mike

Hi Mike,

We do NOT have agreement!

(117)יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) = God Spirit(117)! (John 4:24 / Eph.4:4-6)

God has a thought process, but God is NOT a thought process.
God is a Spirit rather than just having one as you suggest!

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,05:21)

Hi Ed, It is not I who “makes a distinction”, but John.  One “theos” is in John 1:1 is preceeded by the definite article.  The other is not.  As you mentioned in your previous post, the Greeks did not use an indefinite article.  It has to be inserted by English translators for it to make proper sense in English. peace and love, mike

Hi Mike,

Adding the indefinite article changes the meaning of the text.

If I was to say to you: “Listen to God instead of man”…
…would the lack of the definite article change the focus?

1Theess.4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man,
but God, who hath also given unto us his HolySpirit.

Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,05:21)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,17:32) Hi Mike, Preexistence is not the primary issue of this Post. Greek #2316 God: θεός (theos) Thē-ôs: a deity, the supreme divinity, very:- exceedingly God, Godwardly This same word (θεός) is used in “TWO” places in John 1:1. Why are you making a special distinction for the second time? John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Hi Ed, It is not I who “makes a distinction”, but John.  One “theos” is in John 1:1 is preceeded by the definite article.  The other is not.  As you mentioned in your previous post, the Greeks did not use an indefinite article.  It has to be inserted by English translators for it to make proper sense in English.  The NWT correctly inserts the indefinite article in John 1:1, while almost every other translation leaves it omitted so the text can sound like Jesus is God Himself.   John 1:1 NWT In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. In order to help you understand this, look at Acts 12:22, Acts 12:22 NIV They shouted, “This is the voice of a god, not of a man.” The writer Luke does not add the indefinite article “A” here, as you know, because they don't use it in the Greek language. But virtually every major English translation inserts it for our understanding.  Why?  Because it is clear from the context that Luke did not mean “THE God”.  Why?  Because he didn't use the definite article “THE” in front of “god”.  Here's another: Acts 28:6 NIV The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead, but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happen to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god. Again, the word “A” is not there in the Greek text, but every major English translation inserts it for our understanding.  And again, they do so because we know Luke didn't mean “THE God”, for he didn't use the word “THE”. Now, if we can understand this simple rule of grammar in Acts 12:22 and 28:6, then why can't we understand it in John 1:1?  John uses the definite article in front of only one of the “gods” mentioned.  That means one was “THE God”, and the other was “a god”. Can you understand these scriptural examples?  Do you have any SCRIPTURAL reason whatsoever to disclaim what I have just showed you? peace and love, mike

Mike Mike,

I understand what you assert, but I don't agree at all.
You re-packaging it over and over changes NOTHING!

Present bible verses that support your position, so we can discuss them; OK?
Here are mine… and the link to discuss all these verses is… [[[Located Here]]]

Zech.4:6
Zech.12:1

Matt.13:19
Mark 4:14
Mark13:11
Mark 13:19
Luke 3:2
Luke 8:11
John 12:49
John 14:24
John 17:6-8
John 17:14
Acts 4:31
Acts 10:36-38
Acts 10:44
Acts 11:15-16
Acts 13:4-5
Acts 13:47-49
Acts 17:11
Acts 20:32
Romans 9:5-6
Romans 10:17
1Cor. 12:8-9
1Cor. 14:36
2Cor. 5:19
2Cor. 6:6-7
Gal.6:6
Eph. 1:12-13
Eph. 5:26
Eph. 6:17
Phillip.2:16
1Tm.5:17-18
2Tm.2:11-15
2Tm.4:2
Hebrews 1:1-2
Hebrews 2:2-3
Hebrews 4:2-6
Hebrews 4:8-12
Hebrews 5:13-14
Hebrews 7:28
Hebrews 11:3
Hebrews 12:19
James 1:18
1Peter 1:21-23
1Peter 2:6-8
1John 2:7-10
Rev.1:2
Rev.1:9
Rev.19:11-16
Rev.20:4

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,05:49)

I asked: Quote (1)But God's SPIRIT cannot BECOME FLESH and remaing a Spirit at the same time, can it?   Ed answered: Quote 1) Why not? Are you not both flesh and Spirit? (Rom.8:16 / 1Cor.6:20) Yes I am.  But the “spirit” part of me is not “flesh” and the “flesh” part of me is not “spirit”.   mike

Hi Mike,

What does that have to do with anything?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,05:49)

Ed: Quote 2) John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his(God's) glory, the glory(of God) as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Ed, you are not thinking this through completely.  How does God have the glory of an only begotten FROM God? mike

Hi Mike,

Where does Jesus “Glory” come from?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,05:49)

Ed: Quote 3) It is not my Job to convince you, only to present “Bible Truth”! If what you speak really is “Bible Truth”, then you would EASILY convince me Ed.  But that is a lame “fallback” sentence to say after I've showed you the scriptural and logical flaws in your theory……don't you think?

Hi Mike,

So you agree “The Word” becoming flesh [[[ in ]]] Jesus is what produces God's Glory; right?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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