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Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 31 2010,17:30) Lightenup, Thank you for the bump as I seemed to have missed your initial post.
Jesus’ divine nature is the Spirit of God in him since there is only one God. We to participate in that divine nature through Jesus our Lord, 2 Peter 1:3-4.
There is no record of Jesus being active before his conception just speculations based on the actions of angels and the Spirit of God. The later is also called the Spirit of Christ in the New Testament writings.
kerwincould explain this?There is no record of Jesus being active before his conception just speculations based on the actions of angels and the Spirit of God. The later is also called the Spirit of Christ in the New Testament writings
Pierre
All, I have no idea what you all fighting over,
None of you is antichrist,
Islam denies the Son of God. The -middle eastern world- has been decieved into believing this lie. No-one here denies the Father and the Son, pre-existance of Jeus is another thing, even Muslims believe Jesus was sent from Heaven, does it make their teachings true ? No. What they are decieved to believe is scriptually antichrist
…”He who denies the Father and the Son, this is the Antichrist”….Islam denies God can be a Father, Islam denies the Son, so I dont for a moment believe either pre-existancers or non are antichrist, neither denies the Son, do some research on what exactly the Quran says regarding the Son…it is a lie within truth.
My thoughts for today,
What is 'The Word which was from God and was God' and why did John not just say “Jesus” ? How come in revelations The Word is on a horse 'With a name no-one knows'
In Hermas there are two sons, First was the spiritual son, then was taken up the flesh son Jesus.
If the word is Spirit, If Jesus is risen in glorified flesh, if the two worked together spirit in flesh while on earth, Who's to say that isnt so after, that they still dont work together to rule the nations, spirit in the flesh of Jesus?
Hermas was the most popular reading in the earliest church, it appears they had no problem with it,
In Revelations there are TWO witnesses risen from the dead,
'Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead,'
And more on Jesus and the word,
'A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did signify [it], having sent through his messenger to his servant John, who did testify the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, as many things also as he did see.'
'I, John, who also [am] your brother, and fellow-partner in the tribulation, and in the reign and endurance, of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, because of the word of God, and because of the testimony of Jesus Christ;'
'And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God,'
`I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star'
'His eyes [are] as a flame of fire, and upon his head [are] many diadems — having a name written that no one hath known, except himself, and he is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, and his name is called, The Word of God.'
Kind of makes sense to me ?
shimmer
i got a question for you;is anyone who has knowledge and does not follow Christ and his apostles teachings,are called antichrist,it is not those who do not know Christ came in the flesh, right??
Pierre
Hi terrarica,
I think maybe, if anyone knows Jesus is the son of God, has read scripture or understood this, then goes against that and follows Islam, accepts Mohammads word over Jesus's word, they have chosen themself to deny the son, anyone who knows the son would struggle to do this, if they do, they have denied 'the Father and the Son' – 'This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son'
If someone had no knowledge of who the son is, if all they knew was Islam, they havent denied because they dont yet know, so cant make a decision. Maybe ?
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 31 2010,18:43) Hi terrarica, I think maybe, if anyone knows Jesus is the son of God, has read scripture or understood this, then goes against that and follows Islam, accepts Muhammad's word over Jesus word, they have chosen them self to deny the son, anyone who knows the son would struggle to do this, if they do, they have denied 'the Father and the Son' – 'This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son'
If someone had no knowledge of who the son is, if all they knew was Islam, they haven't denied because they don't yet know, so cant make a decision. Maybe ?THEY have gone out into the world,
WHEN YOU DENY CHRIST AS MASTER ,YOU ALSO DENY THE ONE WHO MADE HIM MASTER OVER ALL CREATION,RIGHT?
WOULD THIS NOT MEAN THEN THAT YOU HAVE DENIED THE SON AND THE FATHER?I BELEIVE SO,Islam and Muhammad are the false prophet,they did not come out of the true faith ,they never were in that faith.they have made there own faith.right
Pierre
shimmer1Jn 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many Antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the Antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
2Jn 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the Antichrist.Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.Jas 1:24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.
Jas 1:25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he doesSO IF WE BELIEVE IN CHRIST WE WILL PRODUCE THE FRUITS OF THAT FAITH,RIGHT
SO IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE THAT FAITH BUT NOT PRODUCE THE DEEDS OF THAT FAITH WE ARE LIARS,RIGHT
SO IF WE ARE LIARS IT IS BECAUSE,; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed,
Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;AND DEAD,SO IF YOU HAVE DECLARED YOURSELF OF CHRIST FAITH AND THEN FALL AWAY TO TEACH SOMETHING SIMILAR BUT UNTRUE,WHAT WOULD THAT MAKE YOU ?SINSE YOU NO LONGER ARE SUBMITED TO CHRIST AND AS REJECTED HIM AS MASTER ,WHAT IS LEFT ?OTHER THAN BEING A ANTICHRIST IS IT?
Shimmer …………It say he had a name that no one has known, now do some know him as “the word of GOD” so that can't be his name if it is a name no one has knowns except himself right?. It say he is (called)the word of GOD , it dose not say he (IS) the word of GOD. Did you notice that Shimmer. Think about it sis. Jesus did testify about GOD the Father to us and told us his words that is true, but notice John says he saw them that were beheaded for the “testimony of Jesus”, (and) “for the Word (OF) GOD,” not the word of Jesus, so now are we to presume Jesus (IS) the Word of GOD or is ONE OF THE Spokesmen of the WORD of GOD to US. Notice also John said he was on the island of Patmos for the word of GOD (AND) the testimony of Jesus. Two different thing being mention there, one the WORD of GOD, and the Other the Testimony of Jesus Christ. What was Jesus testimony That he spoke to us Not (HIS) Word but the words of the FATHER, which he said were not His words and Here John backs that up also, so saying Jesus the person and GODS WORD ARE one and the same thing is wrong. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
peace and lvoe to you and yours…………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,16:40) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,14:15) Otherwise my comment is I don't agree!
Okay Ed. Could you PLEASE take me through the post step by step pointing out the particular things you disagree with……..and why?mike
Hi Mike,I don't spend my time in the unfruitful pursuit of
critiquing everyone's individualized idiosyncrasies.That's too much work, and it wouldn't help you anyway.
If you pose questions to me, then I will explain; OK?
This way I know you are open to my responses.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (shimmer @ Oct. 31 2010,21:22) Terrarica why are you shouting? What are you talking about ?
shimmeri am sorry i was not shouting to you,i put capitals to make it more important ,i do no have bold letters and gadgets like edj
again sorry
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 31 2010,04:23) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,04:13) Hi Mike, This verse cannot be taken to mean carry a cross around with you!
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me,
let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Of course it isn't to be taken literally Ed. But I have answered your questions. (1)Now tell me how God's Holy Spirit, which is “God Himself” BECAME flesh, (2)died, (3)and then raised Himself. (4)How did the Father have a glory of an only begotten FROM the Father?
(5)Remember, the scripture does NOT say the Word “came to be IN someone who WAS flesh”. It says “the Word BECAME flesh”.
mike
Hi Mike,Good questions!
1) He came to Jesus in a bodily shape like a dove. (Luke 3:22)
2) This parable explains question #2…Luke 10:30-37 And Jesus answering said, A certain
went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which
stripped him of his raiment(Matt.27:35), and wounded him(John 19:1),
and departed, leaving him half dead(Luke 23:46). And
by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him,
he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place,
came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan,
as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own
beast(Zech.9:9), and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he
departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him;
and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which now of these three,
thinkest thou, was neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on
him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise. Jesus' neighbor metaphorically was God The Father!3) God The Father raised Jesus up. (Galatians 1:1)
4) The same way all fathers have glory when they have a son.
5) Webster's Collegiate Dictionary…
Became: came into existence, came to be, underwent change.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 31 2010,05:44) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,04:31) NOBODY would think that your spokesman was your word.
And if you said you gave you word, others would think that you will keep your promise!
Hi Ed,Why God’s Son is called “the Word.” A title often describes the function served or the duty performed by the bearer. So it was with the title Kal-Hatzé, meaning “the voice or word of the king,” that was given an Abyssinian officer. Based on his travels from 1768 to 1773, James Bruce describes the duties of the Kal-Hatzé as follows. He stood by a window covered with a curtain through which, unseen inside, the king spoke to this officer. He then conveyed the message to the persons or party concerned. Thus the Kal-Hatzé acted as the word or voice of the Abyssinian king.—Travels to Discover the Source of the Nile, London, 1790, Vol. III, p. 265; Vol. IV, p. 76.
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,There are many who mis-understand what Matt.18:16 really means!
Matt.18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more,
that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word “[ [ [ may ] ] ] be established”.This does NOT mean that if you don't believe me
I will go and get Bob and Pete and they will tell you
the same thing, so you better believe what I tell you!
This is a common fallacy, believed by many BABY Christians.
THIS TACTIC WILL NOT WORK! PERIOD!! Why do so many try this futile tactic?
There is no peace (Ezekiel 13:10-12) or love using this tactic (Isaiah 54:17)!What Matt.18:16 really means is: when someone hears “Bible Truth” spoken by more than one,
but using different words, the truth hits home in the ears of the hearer, helping to establish truth for them!
That is also what 1Cor.14:24 means…1Corinthians 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that
believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 31 2010,05:48) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,04:25) John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee(HolySpirit)
the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
No Ed,God's name is Jehovah. Jehovah has a Spirit, as do we all. Our spirits are not “us” any more than Jehovah's Spirit is Him.
mike
Hi Mike,There is no indefinite article in Greek!
John 2:24 God is Spirit:
and they that worship him
must worship in spirit and in truth.Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 31 2010,05:52) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,05:22) Hi Mike, You say to us: don't words mean what they say? And…
'Come on Ed, you are just reaching and twisting and purposely ignoring what is clearly written down.'Will you not even consider what Gene is telling you?
Ed:Quote Hi Mike, You say to us: don't words mean what they say? And…
'Come on Ed, you are just reaching and twisting and purposely ignoring what is clearly written down.'
Look it up Ed. “god” does mean “mighty one”.Ed:
Quote Will you not even consider what Gene is telling you?
Only if and when he speaks scripturally WITHOUT the “reaching and twisting”. I examine all of Gene's “proof scriptures” as he posts them. The problem is that none of them eliminate the fact that Jesus pre-exsited.mike
Hi Mike,Preexistence is not the primary issue of this Post.
Greek #2316 God: θεός (theos) Thē-ôs:
a deity, the supreme divinity, very:- exceedingly God, GodwardlyThis same word (θεός) is used in “TWO” places in John 1:1.
Why are you making a special distinction for the second time?John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 31 2010,05:59) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,05:30) The real question that matters only to you is: How can I prove it to you!
Like I Posted earlier compare Rev.19:11-21 with Isaiah 63:2-10!
Compare 63:2 with Rev.19:13 and focus on Isaiah 63:10.
I have examined them. Maybe you can walk us all through HOW those particular scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit is the Word of God mentioned in Revelation………..or in the Gospel of John for that matter.The Holy Spirit can fill a flesh person with knowledge, feelings, etc. (1)But God's SPIRIT cannot BECOME FLESH and remaing a Spirit at the same time, can it? (2)And what became flesh in John 1:14 is the same thing that had the glory of an only begotten from the Father.
(3)You can't rightfully assert (as you try to) that the one who became flesh was the Holy Spirit, (4)but the one who had the glory of an only begotten from the Father was Jesus. (5)The passage speaks of only one subject…….not two. And the passage DOESN'T say the Word “came to be IN someone who WAS flesh”.
mike
Hi Mike,1) Why not? Are you not both flesh and Spirit? (Rom.8:16 / 1Cor.6:20)
2) John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld his(God's) glory, the glory(of God) as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.3) It is not my Job to convince you, only to present “Bible Truth”!
4) Was God's glory not in Jesus?
5) Became means: came to be; see earlier Post of mine.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgIrene,
I agree that God was not made flesh. The evidence seems to show that the translators incorrectly translated the common Greek “ginomai” to the English word “made” as there are other possible translations that fit the whole context of scripture better.
I also agree that the Word of God is one of many titles for Jesus as he is the fulfillment of the word just as he taught. He is not the literal Word of God.
I agree that it was by God’s literal word that the old and new creations came to be. I also agree that the Spirit of God is not only his righteous Spirit but also the active force of creation. God speaks and the Spirit acts.
I agree that Jesus is not the King of the old creation but he is King of the new creation because if he was King of the old then there would be no need of a new one.
Preeminence means superior or notable above all others. This is true as he is King of the new creation.
Scriptures are not meant to be clear. They are meant to appeal to the Spirit of God that brings one to Christ. Those not so led will go astray following the letter but not God’s intent. God’s fundamental intent is to create a people that are righteous as he is righteous for only such a people will glorify his name.
To all,
I am tired and have not covered everything tonight. God willing I plan to do so tomorrow. Until then may we keep up our studies and humble ourselves to the will of God.
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 31 2010,10:42) All, I have no idea what you all fighting over, None of you is antichrist,
Islam denies the Son of God. The -middle eastern world- has been decieved into believing this lie. No-one here denies the Father and the Son, pre-existance of Jeus is another thing, even Muslims believe Jesus was sent from Heaven, does it make their teachings true ? No. What they are decieved to believe is scriptually antichrist
…”He who denies the Father and the Son, this is the Antichrist”….Islam denies God can be a Father, Islam denies the Son, so I dont for a moment believe either pre-existancers or non are antichrist, neither denies the Son, do some research on what exactly the Quran says regarding the Son…it is a lie within truth.
My thoughts for today,
What is 'The Word which was from God and was God' and why did John not just say “Jesus” ? How come in revelations The Word is on a horse 'With a name no-one knows'
In Hermas there are two sons, First was the spiritual son, then was taken up the flesh son Jesus.
If the word is Spirit, If Jesus is risen in glorified flesh, if the two worked together spirit in flesh while on earth, Who's to say that isnt so after, that they still dont work together to rule the nations, spirit in the flesh of Jesus?
Hermas was the most popular reading in the earliest church, it appears they had no problem with it,
In Revelations there are TWO witnesses risen from the dead,
'Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead,'
And more on Jesus and the word,
'A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did signify [it], having sent through his messenger to his servant John, who did testify the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, as many things also as he did see.'
'I, John, who also [am] your brother, and fellow-partner in the tribulation, and in the reign and endurance, of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, because of the word of God, and because of the testimony of Jesus Christ;'
'And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God,'
`I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star'
'His eyes [are] as a flame of fire, and upon his head [are] many diadems — having a name written that no one hath known, except himself, and he is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, and his name is called, The Word of God.'
Kind of makes sense to me ?
Hi Shimmer,Only 66 books are Canon; the Shepherd of Hermes is NOT Canonical!
But I'm glad you're like the Bereans…Acts:17:11: These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in
that they(the Bereans) received the word with all readiness of mind,
and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.Matt.7:7-8 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock,
and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth;
and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Oct. 31 2010,10:54) shimmer i got a question for you;is anyone who has knowledge and does not follow Christ and his apostles teachings,are called antichrist,it is not those who do not know Christ came in the flesh, right??
Pierre
Hi Terraricca,Is BD getting to you?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Oct. 31 2010,18:37) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 31 2010,21:22) Terrarica why are you shouting? What are you talking about ?
shimmeri am sorry i was not shouting to you,i put capitals to make it more important ,i do no have bold letters and gadgets like edj
again sorry
Pierre
That's ok terrarica.To use bold print you put [/b] with the writing you want bolded in the middle of the two. You do the same for underline but it's [/u] with the writing you want underlined in the middle of the two,
Thanks Ed. Iv just always been curious about Hermas, People read things and feel something with it, I did with The Sheppard, some do with the church fathers, church fathers just made me confused, Hermas was before them, I'm seeing if it agrees with scripture. If it doesnt I will forget thinking about it.
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