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Hi JA,
I'm glad you are willing to discuss this subject. I have started a thread about it called “Was Jesus Always Superior?”
I'll move your post over there.
peace and love,
mikeMike………I answered you question before rather you read it or not, i did.
Mike Where did you get (FROM) from, John never said that, He said that those who do not believe Jesus came (IN) the FLESH. But true to your changing context you add to his word the word {FROM} into the mix. Fact is, if you understood the reasonings of the Gnostic's you could easily see what John was saying because they also Believe Jesus was sent from the Gods as all preexistences and trinitarians do. That ties both trinitarians and preexistences to the Gnostic's false teaching of Jesus preexistence. The very thing John was arguing against. “Who soever confess not that Jesus came in the FLESH IS Antichrist' and this (not believing) Jesus came in the flesh is the Spirit of Antichrist. John was not talking about a MORPHED BEING coming in the FLESH or he would have said that , He was talking about Jesus existence as a (BEING) was in and through the Flesh. No where did John ever said Jesus Preexisted in any form or shape other then his earthy existence as a MAN . No “Morphing” or “Incarnation” ever mention by John or any apostle about Jesus, that is a false teaching of the APOSTATE CHURCHES. Not any apostle or true disciple of Jesus.
Why add anything to what is written as i see you do with even the Kingdom of GOD coming “without observation” and is “within you”. As s meaning “among you”>
ps…………..> And by the way thank you for relating me with martian, Jodi, barely and Kerwin, that is a honor to me. And i believe Tim Kraft and Shimmer and Chosenone would all fit there also, and even Nick on his understanding of Jesus becoming a Son of GOD at the Jordan River would to.
peace and love…………………………….gene
Mike ………..I have to agree with JA and His alter EGO, much of what he said there is true, POINT is Mike you do force the text to try to draw a conclusion that you want and to what the text does not actual say and that this is what many Trinitarians and Preexistences do, An it confuses many here and around the world in Christendom . We need to try to put all the scripture together first in order to draw our conclusions, remember it say the Sum if GODS words are truth. Something can appear one way especially when we have had a past association with wrong teachings and cause us to comprehend them wrong and we have all had those association in our lives. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 24 2010,23:13) Mike, You, yourself, point out that 'God' cannot be 'With God'.
Hi JustAskin,If God is in me and God is in you, and if we are standing next to each other…
Then would God not be with God? Why do you say this cannot be?
Eph.4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all,
and through all, and in you all.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2010,06:22) Mike Where did you get (FROM) from, John never said that, He said that those who do not believe Jesus came (IN) the FLESH.
Gene,I merely pointed out that if it says Jesus CAME in the flesh, then that means he CAME from somewhere or something else.
Can you show me one other person in the history of the world who was said to have COME in the flesh?
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2010,03:31) Mike………. It is non wonder you get so many thing out of context , Mike i think if you would kinda stand back and view scripture from a more overall context of what is being said , instead of looking for some single word that causes you to lose focus on what in being implied by the text as a whole , that would help you brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Hi Gene,Excellent Point! (Click Here)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2010,07:47) If God is in me and God is in you, and if we are standing next to each other…
Then would God not be with God? Why do you say this cannot be?
Oh brother!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2010,07:54) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2010,07:47) If God is in me and God is in you, and if we are standing next to each other…
Then would God not be with God? Why do you say this cannot be?
Oh brother!
Hi Mike,It's an excellent point; No?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2010,06:39) Mike ………..I have to agree with JA and His alter EGO, much of what he said there is true, POINT is Mike you do force the text to try to draw a conclusion that you want and to what the text does not actual say and that this is what many Trinitarians and Preexistences do
Just answer this question DIRECTLY Gene.Does Jesus say he wants to be glorified with the “pre-ordained” glory that God had waiting for him from before the creation of the world?
Or does Jesus ask God to glorify HIM with the glory HE HAD in God's presence before the creation of the world?
You see Gene, you have to agree with JA's insults because you have no other recourse. You can't answer what the words of scripture actually say armed with nothing but your “wishes” and “imagination”.
Like I said before, if the word says “black”, but “black” doesn't fit into YOUR doctrine, it is YOU, not ME, who tries to “force the text”. And then you fault me for reminding you that the word actually says “black”.
Please DIRECTLY answer the bolded part above.
mike
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2010,07:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2010,07:54) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2010,07:47) If God is in me and God is in you, and if we are standing next to each other…
Then would God not be with God? Why do you say this cannot be?
Oh brother!
Hi Mike,It's an excellent point; No?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
No Ed,It's gibberish. The one being of God cannot be WITH the one being of God, anymore than Ed J can be WITH Ed J.
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2010,06:39) Mike ………..I have to agree with JA and His alter EGO, much of what he said there is true, POINT is Mike you do force the text to try to draw a conclusion that you want and to what the text does not actual say and that this is what many Trinitarians and Preexistences d
Gene. This is exactly what you do.You add words to the text all the time like “in God's mind”.
You add your own context.e.g., “Before Abraham was, I am” becomes something different to what it is saying.
“Back to the glory that he had with the Father before the world begun” becomes into the glory that God imagined in the past of his son in the future”.
These are huge changes from the text.
I respect people who read the text and accept it for what it says and align to what it says. I have no respect for people who start of with a preconceived idea and stick with it no matter what, and use scripture to back up their view by changing, adding, and taking away from it.
I have been debating with Trinitarians for years who are quite clever at this. You may not be a Trinitarian, but you employ the same tactics.
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2010,07:47) Hi JustAskin, If God is in me and God is in you, and if we are standing next to each other…
Then would God not be with God? Why do you say this cannot be?
Eph.4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all,
and through all, and in you all.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
That seems true from the third dimension perspective.
Obviously God's Spirit can dwell in all and not be visible.
Perhaps he can reside at a level lower than all things, even lower than quantum and he can reside above all things. Who knows, maybe the highest and the smallest are both the same part of the circle where it all joins up.Gene,
I don't know how you read…but if you read my post i clearly say, '…as God to Aaron'.Be it known to you that i actually do know what i am saying, thanks.
Also, i do say, 'The Word was God'.
I quoted John 1:1 with extension for the explanation to Mikeboll64.It is for his comprehension and there was no backsliding from me, no mistaking what i wrote.
The explanation being how to distinguish one use of the title 'God' from another by means of context.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2010,06:39) Mike ………..I have to agree with JA and His alter EGO, much of what he said there is true, POINT is Mike you do force the text to try to draw a conclusion that you want and to what the text does not actual say and that this is what many Trinitarians and Preexistences do, An it confuses many here and around the world in Christendom . We need to try to put all the scripture together first in order to draw our conclusions, remember it say the Sum if GODS words are truth. Something can appear one way especially when we have had a past association with wrong teachings and cause us to comprehend them wrong and we have all had those association in our lives. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
You are out of your mind……….Peace Irene… you need it….and open your eyes….Edj,
God with God. No.
That is perpostuous. That is just a combination of words that have no sense.
The ONE God would be in both of us, so there can be no division of God and therefore no 'God with God' as in God Almighty with God Almighty…God cannot be divided: 'for if a kingdom is divided in itself, how can it stand…no, it must fall'
TO ALL………..A rendering from the Greek text.
1 John 4:1-4……> Loved ones, not all spirit trust, but prove the spirits if from the God they are, because many false spokesmen have gone out into the world, In this you know the spirit of the GOD, all spirit that confesses Jesus Christ in flesh having come, from the God is, and all spirit that not confesses the Jesus from (flesh has come)-(this is left out from many text but is is many also)-the God not it is, and this is the of the Antichrist, that you have heard that he comes, and now in the world is already, (You from) the GOD are, little childern and you have conquered them, Because greater is the one in you or the one in the world,. Themselves from the world are.
Notice it say those who believe are (FROM GOD) and those Who do not believe are (FROM THE WORLD) Now does that mean we were preexisting with God before we were born on earth?, after all it say we are (FROM) GOD.Did we preexist as some kind of being and God sent us also into the world? So what about Jesus in what sense does that same expression Mean about HIM as Being (FROM GOD) is it any different them us., being (FROM GOD)?, NO it is not. We came into existence through the Flesh and so did He, We who believe are (FROM GOD) and Jesus who believed is (FROM GOD) in the Same way , through FAITH.
1 John 5:4…….> For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world even (OUR FAITH).
Who is he that overcomes the wold, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of GOD? 5.6 Notice ……> This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only , but by water and blood. (like we all did we all came into existence by water and Blood as all are when they are born do). John is talking about How Jesus came into existence, the same way we did. Now where Her does it say Jesus was morhped from a past existence of any kind , that is the teaching of Trinitarians and Preexistences which derive they teachings from the Gnostic's of Johns day these are all Antichrist and they separate Jesus likeness from our own exact identity with him.
peace and love to you all…………………….gene
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 25 2010,09:24) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2010,06:39) Mike ………..I have to agree with JA and His alter EGO, much of what he said there is true, POINT is Mike you do force the text to try to draw a conclusion that you want and to what the text does not actual say and that this is what many Trinitarians and Preexistences d
Gene. This is exactly what you do.You add words to the text all the time like “in God's mind”.
You add your own context.e.g., “Before Abraham was, I am” becomes something different to what it is saying.
“Back to the glory that he had with the Father before the world begun” becomes into the glory that God imagined in the past of his son in the future”.
These are huge changes from the text.
I respect people who read the text and accept it for what it says and align to what it says. I have no respect for people who start of with a preconceived idea and stick with it no matter what, and use scripture to back up their view by changing, adding, and taking away from it.
I have been debating with Trinitarians for years who are quite clever at this. You may not be a Trinitarian, but you employ the same tactics.
T8………..No you are adding to what the I AM means you (assume) it Means he PREEXISTED as SOME KIND of BEING , but the text does (NOT) (SPECIFICALLY) Say that, YOU DO, So who is adding words to it not Me you ARE. You are forcing the text to fit you dogmas , I force the text to mean Jesus had his Position before he was ever born and before Abraham even existed, by other scriptures mention here many times. Jesus could have even said before Adam was I am, and that would have been right also. You problem is you have to describe in what way the “I AM” is to be applied. Your are following the Trinitarians and Gnostic's who also believed Jesus preexisted His berth on earth, just admit it T8.There is no difference between Trinitarians , Preexistences and the Gnostic's , they all are Separatist and their doctrines all separate Jesus from our exact likeness and cause a rift in our identity with Jesus on the same level they moves Jesus away from human Kind, and that is What John was describing as the Spirit of Antichrist. Paul and John both fought that false concept and held it back from infecting the church until they were taken out of the way, and it took roots and became the main tenet teachings that exist today in all the apostate Churches, these teaching Jesus will abolish at his return, 2 Ths 2. IMO
T8………Ask you self why did not Jesus say before Adam “I AM”, was it not because they (Pharisees) were trying to give greater importance to them being decedents of Abraham, thereby giving themselves more authority in there relationship to God and Jesus was showing them his importance was greater then Abraham's was. If you keep in context of what Jesus was saying you could easily see what he was referring to and it had nothing to do with him being in existence as A BEING, before Abraham at all, but in Authority and Position he was ahead of Abraham in importance another words and the Pharisees need to trust in Him no Abraham. That was and is the Point>
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Hi Gene,
You have ignored the last two posts I made to you. You have also ignored the John 1:1 post both here and in the John 1:1-3 thread I moved it to. Why?
Here's another scripture you can ignore:
1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,
Now wait a minute here. Jesus never was, and never will be ANYTHING BUT FLESH, right Gene? What is this “other nature” Paul was alluding to? Hmmmmm……..
peace and love,
mikeQuote (t8 @ Oct. 25 2010,09:24) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2010,06:39) Mike ………..I have to agree with JA and His alter EGO, much of what he said there is true, POINT is Mike you do force the text to try to draw a conclusion that you want and to what the text does not actual say and that this is what many Trinitarians and Preexistences d
Gene. This is exactly what you do.You add words to the text all the time like “in God's mind”.
You add your own context.e.g., “Before Abraham was, I am” becomes something different to what it is saying.
“Back to the glory that he had with the Father before the world begun” becomes into the glory that God imagined in the past of his son in the future”.
These are huge changes from the text.
I respect people who read the text and accept it for what it says and align to what it says. I have no respect for people who start of with a preconceived idea and stick with it no matter what, and use scripture to back up their view by changing, adding, and taking away from it.
I have been debating with Trinitarians for years who are quite clever at this. You may not be a Trinitarian, but you employ the same tactics.
Hi brother T8, if Jesus was preexisting his birth and was before Abraham, was he a real human like you and me who could be our example in weakness. He must be an alien and belong to different world. How can Christianity claim Jesus was 100% man?This is where I am really fed up with Bible and Christianity. Therefore now I am on the way to becoming a skeptic than a believer of blind faith.
I am sorry
Adam
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