Preexistence

[kenrch]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,09:23)

Quote (kenrch @ July 22 2007,09:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,09:08) Hi K, Would you want me to align your logical derivation with Scripture? The Word was with God and had his own glory. You didn't answer my question.  Is your spirit with you? Hi K, No, I am glad my spirit is still in me. If it was with me I would be dead. Jas 2.26

I think God is little different than us Nick. God IS life is able to send His Spirit anywhere.

Your spirit is in you but is your spirit WITH you?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,09:02)

Hi 94, So Jesus was in the form of God at the Jordan? God is not a man, even an anointed man.

Hi Nick:

Philippians did not say that he was God.  It says that he was in the “form of God”.  He was God's Christ.  He was God's representative to humanity.  God endowed him with such athority as to even forgive sins.

There is only “One God”.  There never was and never will be more than “One God”.  If you say that being in the form of God means that he was God prior to his being conceived of the Holy Ghost, then you are agreeing that he was God incarnate.

Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Quote

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

God Bless

[kejonn]

Quote (942767 @ July 22 2007,05:23)

Hi KJ: God's plan was to make man in his own image. The first man was made a living soul. The last man was made a life-giving spirit. The personality of Jesus did exist with the Father in the beginning. This is the Word of God that Jesus would teach to humanity and would apply to his daily life. He was perfected through obedience to the the Word of God. God Bless

Hmmm, I don't know that I'm quite sure what you mean by “the personality of Jesus did exist with the Father in the beginning”. Was he, in your opinion, an entity with awareness before the earthly birth?

[942767]

Quote (kejonn @ July 22 2007,10:02)

Quote (942767 @ July 22 2007,05:23) Hi KJ: God's plan was to make man in his own image.  The first man was made a living soul.  The last man was made a life-giving spirit.  The personality of Jesus did exist with the Father in the beginning.  This is the Word of God that Jesus would teach to humanity and would apply to his daily life.  He was perfected through obedience to the the Word of God. God Bless Hmmm, I don't know that I'm quite sure what you mean by “the personality of Jesus did exist with the Father in the beginning”. Was he, in your opinion, an entity with awareness before the earthly birth?

Hi KJ:

No, he was not a sentient person. The Word, that is the personality or spirit, that would be formed in Jesus as he obeyed God even unto death on the cross was with God in the beginning. Hebrews 1:3 states that he is the “express image” of God's person.

He (that is his personality was perfected) through obedience to the Word of God.

Quote

Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and * * supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The following scriptures may also help you to understand what I am indicating by his personality was with God in the beginning:

Quote

1 Corinthians 10 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

God Bless

[GeneBalthrop]

942767…..where it say's they drank of that Rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ. Again this word should have not been captilized to indicate Jesus but shuold have rear > that Rock was the Christos or the annointing or Holy Spirit, Besause there is a scripture where God say's He is the Only Rock…..gene

[942767]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 22 2007,11:21)

942767…..where it say's they drank of that Rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ.  Again this word should have not been captilized to indicate Jesus but shuold have rear > that Rock was the Christos or the annointing or Holy Spirit, Besause there is a scripture where God say's He is the Only Rock…..gene

Hi Gene:

I believe that this indicates that they drank of the spiritual drink (the Word of God). Jesus is the anointed Word of God.

God Bless

[IM4Truth]

nt3in1 Since you started this post can you tell me why you have not given me your opinion about the scriptures I gave on Page 81?
Mrs.IM4Truth

[michaels]

gene yes a word has glory for gods name has all things for he is in his name,yet his name is just a word,and yes a word can become flesh,is gods arm shortend that he cannot do these things,for he spoke everything forth with just a word,or words,he said let there be light and there was,for his word is true

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
You say
” The Word, that is the personality or spirit, that would be formed in Jesus as he obeyed God even unto death on the cross was with God in the beginning.”
Is this written?

[NickHassan]

Quote (kenrch @ July 22 2007,09:26)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,09:23) Quote (kenrch @ July 22 2007,09:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,09:08) Hi K, Would you want me to align your logical derivation with Scripture? The Word was with God and had his own glory. You didn't answer my question.  Is your spirit with you? Hi K, No, I am glad my spirit is still in me. If it was with me I would be dead. Jas 2.26 I think God is little different than us Nick.  God IS life is able to send His Spirit anywhere. Your spirit is in you but is your spirit WITH you?

Hi K,
No.
In me…and I am grateful it still is.
I am body soul and spirit.
Are you not?

[NickHassan]

Quote (942767 @ July 22 2007,09:58)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,09:02) Hi 94, So Jesus was in the form of God at the Jordan? God is not a man, even an anointed man. Hi Nick: Philippians did not say that he was God.  It says that he was in the “form of God”.  He was God's Christ.  He was God's representative to humanity.  God endowed him with such athority as to even forgive sins. There is only “One God”.  There never was and never will be more than “One God”.  If you say that being in the form of God means that he was God prior to his being conceived of the Holy Ghost, then you are agreeing that he was God incarnate. Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Quote 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; God Bless

Hi K,
The WORD WAS GOD.
When WAS this?
Do you say immediately prior to his coming?
Not necessarily.
Perhaps even before he was with God?

[kenrch]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,19:20)

Quote (kenrch @ July 22 2007,09:26) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,09:23) Quote (kenrch @ July 22 2007,09:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,09:08) Hi K, Would you want me to align your logical derivation with Scripture? The Word was with God and had his own glory. You didn't answer my question.  Is your spirit with you? Hi K, No, I am glad my spirit is still in me. If it was with me I would be dead. Jas 2.26 I think God is little different than us Nick.  God IS life is able to send His Spirit anywhere. Your spirit is in you but is your spirit WITH you? Hi K, No. In me…and I am grateful it still is. I am body soul and spirit. Are you not?

So your spirit is just the “spark of life”?  Does your spark of life ever get grieved, or rejoice in the Spirit, Luke 10:21.

Is your “inner man” different that you?

Rom 7:22  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

If the inner man should leave would you die?

Rom 7:23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Is it your finger that sins?

I don't understand how your spirit is in you but not with you.

Is the “inner man” separate from the outer man of sin?

When God pours His Spirit out does He die?

As you said God is able to pour His Spirit out. We are created in God's image.  We too have a spirit just as God but of course for now anyway we can't pour our spirit out.

I believe my spirit is MORE that just the spark of life.  Isn't yours? My spirit is part of me but separate from me, therefore is WITH me.

It's a mystery and hard to explain in Rom. 7 Paul did his best to explain it.

“…..So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but [YET] with the flesh the law of sin.

[kenrch]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,19:23)

Quote (942767 @ July 22 2007,09:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,09:02) Hi 94, So Jesus was in the form of God at the Jordan? God is not a man, even an anointed man. Hi Nick: Philippians did not say that he was God.  It says that he was in the “form of God”.  He was God's Christ.  He was God's representative to humanity.  God endowed him with such athority as to even forgive sins. There is only “One God”.  There never was and never will be more than “One God”.  If you say that being in the form of God means that he was God prior to his being conceived of the Holy Ghost, then you are agreeing that he was God incarnate. Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Quote 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; God Bless Hi K, The WORD WAS GOD. When WAS this? Do you say immediately prior to his coming? Not necessarily. Perhaps even before he was with God?

You mean 94 don't you Nick?

Quote

Perhaps even before he was with God?

But I would like to know what was God before He was God?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,19:18)

Hi 94, You say ” The Word, that is the personality or spirit, that would be formed in Jesus as he obeyed God even unto death on the cross was with God in the beginning.” Is this written?

Hi Nick:

Yes, it is written.  I have given you scripture to support my viewpoint.

God Bless

[942767]

Quote (kenrch @ July 23 2007,00:59)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,19:23) Quote (942767 @ July 22 2007,09:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,09:02) Hi 94, So Jesus was in the form of God at the Jordan? God is not a man, even an anointed man. Hi Nick: Philippians did not say that he was God.  It says that he was in the “form of God”.  He was God's Christ.  He was God's representative to humanity.  God endowed him with such athority as to even forgive sins. There is only “One God”.  There never was and never will be more than “One God”.  If you say that being in the form of God means that he was God prior to his being conceived of the Holy Ghost, then you are agreeing that he was God incarnate. Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Quote 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; God Bless Hi K, The WORD WAS GOD. When WAS this? Do you say immediately prior to his coming? Not necessarily. Perhaps even before he was with God? You mean 94 don't you Nick? Quote Perhaps even before he was with God? But I would like to know what was God before He was God?

Hi Nick:

Two Gods at some point in time?

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick…..> if you get a greek interlinear it will say, “crist Jesus in form of God existing, not a robbery did consider to be equal with God”.

This was his destined form (which was destined by God the Father)but even though He had this destiny he did not use it to be equal with God and steal Glory from God, but conformed to a man and became obedient to death even the death of the cross.

verse 9…therefore God also him highly exaulted and graceously gave him a name which is above every name, that the nameof Jesus every knee (MAY) bow of heaven and earth and subteranean, and every tongue (MAY) confess {What may every toungus confess} that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

notice the words MAY, in the original Greek text, quite a change to should or will or must, and when they do bow they must confess it to he is to the Glory of God the Father, not bow as Jesus is a God or any orther diety, but always giving the His God and Our God,His Father and Our Father.

thanks…..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick…> i ment to say Giving the glory to his God and our God,

another Greek translation renders it (MIGHT BOW) but neither remders it must or even should. the way the Greek text put it, it's as if God grants us permission to if we want to, but stepulates it must be in a sence of to the Glory of God only.

hope this helped……gene

[NickHassan]

Quote (942767 @ July 23 2007,01:14)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,19:18) Hi 94, You say ” The Word, that is the personality or spirit, that would be formed in Jesus as he obeyed God even unto death on the cross was with God in the beginning.” Is this written? Hi Nick: Yes, it is written.  I have given you scripture to support my viewpoint. God Bless

Hi 94,
Yes k.
So you have given possibly supportive scriptures
but it is not written.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2007,07:53)

Quote (942767 @ July 23 2007,01:14) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,19:18) Hi 94, You say ” The Word, that is the personality or spirit, that would be formed in Jesus as he obeyed God even unto death on the cross was with God in the beginning.” Is this written? Hi Nick: Yes, it is written.  I have given you scripture to support my viewpoint. God Bless Hi 94, Yes k. So you have given possibly supportive scriptures but it is not written.

Hi Nick:

It may not be written word for word as I have stated my viewpoint, but it is written in that I have supported what I have stated with scripture.

And,

Quote

2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

God Bless

[kejonn]

942,

I don't know that “personality” would be the right word to use to describe what Yeshua was before his earthly conception.

Personality

1. The quality or condition of being a person.
2. The totality of qualities and traits, as of character or behavior, that are peculiar to a specific person.
3. The pattern of collective character, behavioral, temperamental, emotional, and mental traits of a person: Though their personalities differed, they got along as friends.
4. Distinctive qualities of a person, especially those distinguishing personal characteristics that make one socially appealing: won the election more on personality than on capability. See synonyms at disposition.
5. a) A person as the embodiment of distinctive traits of mind and behavior.
   b) A person of prominence or notoriety: television personalities.

I think your use of the word “personality” would be confusing to most. It is why I asked for clarification.

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