Preexistence

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 27 2010,11:54)

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 27 2010,04:03) Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 26 2010,19:35) Hi Ed, do you and Gene both believe the same (Holy Spirit is the word)…..and wheres your differences ? Thanks. Hi Shimmer, I can't answer for Gene in this matter, The Scripture (I believe) clearly teaches “The Word” is the HolySpirit. (Click Here) I do know that Gene does not believe what the systems of religion and traditions of men teach regarding “The Word”. My research also providing the evidence that “The Word” is God, which is exactly what John 1:1, John 14:24 and John 12:49-50 say!            English        ↔    Hebrew       ↔    Greek      “Word of God”  ↔      “God”         ↔ “The Word” “Word of God”(86) =   (אלהים](86]     = [ο λογος](86)th Prime Hō Lōgôs         YHVH(63)      = ĔL-ō-Hêêm(63) = The Bible(63)     Why would people put the systems of religion's teachings above what “The Bible” clearly says “The Word” of God is? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj i think you are confusing the WORD in Jn 1;1 and the written words in all your scriptures you show as supposedly teach that the WORD  is the Holy spirit. sorry but you better go back to read the bible and receive understanding. Pierre

Hi Terraricca,

No, you are trying to apply a special meaning the words [ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs in John 1:1
even this wording is found in many other places of Scripture which you Irene
and others ignore because you are the one confused; Terraricca!
I highlighted the parts that applies to you! (Matt.7:2)

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

Irene………..So you don not consider a Saint as a JOINT Heir with Jesus and in your religion Jesus did not say the glory which thou hast given me i given unto them, and The saints are not Kings and Priest unto GOD as scripture say they are. Which bible are you reading or have you simply forgot these thing written in there concerning the Saints of GOD. Like i have said you have separated yourself from Jesus like mike by not acknowledge you exact identity with him as a fellow human being. I am not talking so much about position as i am about His and Our identical Humanity. That is why i gave the analogy about our president , which you have failed to even commit on. Jesus does have his position given him by GOD the Father and so do all Saints, but none of that separates Him from US. He is still SON OF MAN and Son of GOD EXACTLY AS WE ARE. What you seem to be looking for is someone you can IDOLIZE and Worship other then GOD Alone.

peace and love to you and Georg…………………gene

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 28 2010,17:08)

Irene………..So you don not consider a Saint as a JOINT Heir with Jesus and in your religion Jesus did not say the glory which thou hast given me i given unto them, and The saints are not Kings and Priest unto GOD as scripture say they are. Which bible are you reading or have you simply forgot these thing written in there concerning the Saints of GOD. Like i have said you have separated yourself from Jesus like mike  by not acknowledge you exact identity with him as a fellow human being. I am not talking so much about position as i am about His and Our identical Humanity. That is why i gave the analogy about our president , which you have failed to even commit on. Jesus does have his position given him by GOD the Father and so do all Saints, but none of that separates Him from US. He is still SON OF MAN and Son of GOD EXACTLY AS WE ARE. What you seem to be looking for is someone you can IDOLIZE and Worship other then GOD Alone. peace and love to you and Georg…………………gene

Gene! Did you die for Christ? No. The first resurrection belong to those who died for Christ……Period. His Saints….. We will inherit the earth, if we are meek. That is not good enough for you? It is up to God again. To consider yourself so highly, speaks of righteousness in your own eyes. That is never rewarded….Think about what a Saint is? None of us that live today can say what the Saints did for Christ…… That you have not taken in to consideration. And it shows self righteousness………Amen….And you never give Scriptures…..Where does it say that the Saints are not going to be Kings and Priests with Christ, who is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Are you also denying that Christ will not be a King?……. redicoulous……He will come back as The Word of God and KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS Rev. 19:13-16………..Why should I comment on something so stupid, the analogy of a human President…I have answered you again this time, and I see that you just do your thing, and for that reason , and even if you do, I will not answer you again, ……… Irene

[Not3in1]

Hello every one!

I thought I would visit my favorite thread to see if there were any new revelations on the subject.

I hope every one is well and happy. As for me, I've taken on a few different jobs and am currently writing a book for Arcadia Publishing Co (their Images of America series.)

I've had the opportunity to visit various churches/faiths and they have all been glorious in their own way. I've learn to appreciate all faiths. I confess that I find the Catholic church to be the most facinating. It's also the most complex. Still, I do not buy all the Mother sells for a dollar…but it sure is interesting.

My love to you all. Press on!
Mandy

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 24 2010,08:34)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 24 2010,02:53) T8………Are your words (IN) YOU are the part of You, if not them why will we be Judged by them.  And if they are, do they not compose your thoughts and Plans. Your logic fails Brother. Exactly. And now understand that my words are not WITH me. They are part of me and I can express them to others. God's full expression is Christ. He is the image of the invisible God and the fullness of the deity in bodily form or the fulness of God's nature dwells embodied. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,

T8,
Not to go off subject,
but i was under the impression you believed that Jesus was an Angel?
or was i wrong all this time?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 24 2010,08:34)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 24 2010,02:53) T8………Are your words (IN) YOU are the part of You, if not them why will we be Judged by them.  And if they are, do they not compose your thoughts and Plans. Your logic fails Brother. Exactly. And now understand that my words are not WITH me. They are part of me and I can express them to others. God's full expression is Christ. He is the image of the invisible God and the fullness of the deity in bodily form or the fulness of God's nature dwells embodied. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,

T8,
Not to go off subject,
but i was under the impression you believed that Jesus was an Angel?
or was i wrong all this time?

What you Just stated was awesome,
Its the same thing i been trying to say,

I loved the way you worded it,

[shimmer]

Gene, heres what I was thinking,

If you start at the beginning, God is one, there is only one Almighty God, creater of the heavens and the earth, God, no other. This is what was repeated over and over in the old Testament and again in the new, and by Jesus…God is one.  Who was Jesus talking about ? Who was Jesus speaking for ? Who was Jesus praying to ? The ONE God.

Keep this clear, there is no other God Almighty, whom Jesus wants us to draw close to and love, Jesus came as the representative of the one God, the spokesperson, the messenger, the word, and I believe it was the same one throughout the old testament who also spoke for God though not in the flesh. This one messenger, No-one can see God, they can only hear from the word.

The Holy Spirit, the glory of the Lord, now the son, wisdom, an Angel, God, Lord, Logos, he can be called by all of these, he works for the Fathers will, they are one in power and spirit, “The Lord made me, the beginning of His ways to his works”

[shimmer]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 29 2010,18:30)

Hello every one! I thought I would visit my favorite thread to see if there were any new revelations on the subject. I hope every one is well and happy.  As for me, I've taken on a few different jobs and am currently writing a book for Arcadia Publishing Co (their Images of America series.) I've had the opportunity to visit various churches/faiths and they have all been glorious in their own way.  I've learn to appreciate all faiths.  I confess that I find the Catholic church to be the most facinating.  It's also the most complex.  Still, I do not buy all the Mother sells for a dollar…but it sure is interesting. My love to you all.  Press on! Mandy

Hi Mandy,

Have you seen an Orthodox church yet ?

[shimmer]

(Mandy, that's Christian Orthodox Church I meant), they are like Catholics but really different (it's late !

[JustAskin]

Shimmer,
You have the spirit of God in you.

Your post, except for a few anomalies, was excellent.

Keep on this path for it is the path of truth and righteousness.

Sf, what other creatures are in Heaven, or the holy heavens?

Please list them for the forum viewers.

Ok, let me start you off:
God and Angels.

Which category is Jesus in?

[GeneBalthrop]

Shimmer……….Many 'spoke the words of GOD both in the Old Testament as well as in the New . There is no (ONE) Person speaking Gods Words. Jesus was not the one Speaking Gods words in the old Testament, the prophets were speaking them to us. “FOR GOD SPOKE TO US IN TIMES PAST THROUGH THE PROPHETS, BUT IN THESE LATTER HE HAS SPOKEN TO US THROUGH A SON. THE SON DID NOT EXIST IN THE OLD TESTAMENT EXCEPT IN THE PLAN AND WILL OF GOD HE WAS PROPHESIED TO COME into existences at the right time through the seed of the women as spoken of in Genesis, as well as the prophet Moses and others.

The exclusivity of Jesus is to completely miss the who point of our salvation it moves him away from us , it cause us to not (truly) believe we can come to “the measure of the (fullness) of Christ” as we are told. It is part of the MYSTERY RELIGION that has decieved all Christendom. It is Antichrist Spoken of by John the Apostle.

Shimmer the scripture that say Christ was the Rock that followed the childern in the wilderness is also misunderstood to mean Jesus the man or angle. when in fact it is the SPIRIT OF GOD HIMSELF that is being spoken of there , this Spirit was on all the old leaders of GODS people like Moses and the Seventy elders , Joshua and etc and even the angles who communicated with them also. The Word CHRIST THERE IS CHRISTOS and simply means ANOINTING OR SPIRIT OF GOD. GOD ALONE IS THE ROCK AND THERE IS NO OTHER ROCK BUT HIM. Read where Jesus ask Peter who he was and you will see it is GOD who is the Rock being mentioned there by Jesus.

Shimmer don't fall into trap of the false teachers of Preexistences and Trinitarians, They do not except Jesus as one of them or US, they deny him being a SON OF MAN. They have never produced any proof of MORPHING PROCESS WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURE they have brought the “LIE” Hook Line and Sinker. They are even though unaware Antichrists.

peace and lvoe to you and yours………………………………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Irene ……….So please tell me where i have said i am so righteous or consider myself so highely. That is you untruthful mouth saying that not me. I never said such a thing as that. Again you still fail to address my post or the points mentioned there , you just ignore them, so there is not point even discussing this with you. You ask a question and then we answer and then you just ignore the answer as if we never answered it, Mike does the same thing also. If you do not consider yourself a Saint of GOD that is fine with me that is your right to do so. But why criticize those who do consider themselves saints of GOD, I believe I have recieved the Spirit of GOD and an a Saint of GOD and a Joint heir with Jesus my Brother. If you chose not to then fine with Me , i can understand why you would not consider yourself a saint or Sister of Jesus because you do Not identify with Him as a REAL HUMAN Being A SON OF MAN so you seperate him from yourself and idolize him as a God or demigod of some kind.

peace and lvoe to you and Georg…………………………..gene

[Baker]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 29 2010,17:30)

Hello every one! I thought I would visit my favorite thread to see if there were any new revelations on the subject. I hope every one is well and happy.  As for me, I've taken on a few different jobs and am currently writing a book for Arcadia Publishing Co (their Images of America series.) I've had the opportunity to visit various churches/faiths and they have all been glorious in their own way.  I've learn to appreciate all faiths.  I confess that I find the Catholic church to be the most fascinating.  It's also the most complex.  Still, I do not buy all the Mother sells for a dollar…but it sure is interesting. My love to you all.  Press on! Mandy

Well Hello Mandy!  Good to hear from you….So you been in the Catholic Church and find it interesting/ Wow, I sure hope you would not join them.  You remember that we were Catholics until Georg was 46 and I was 45.  The Mass is the abomination speaking of in the Bible.  The Mass is a sacrifice for sin.  Christ died once for all times and not just then.  And then there is Maria and the Rosary.  Repeating the Our Father over and over again.  I back then started a Woman Organization and they also believe that Gay's should be allowed to be Catholics.  Only one time right after we left did we go to one Church and to me it was eerie, very eerie and I will never again go there…..Also the way they worship the Pope, He has on His Teairra in Latin that add up to 666.  The rest you can see yourself…..Sorry to give yous such bad taste about them, but I needed to do so……. Wish you all the best and congratulation on your Book.  Georg too has written one……Are you stricken around or are you just visiting?   It's been interesting around here.  Nick left, but He is also on Face Book and He is doing great….Having a good time and rest.  We have two new Moderators.  i know one is Mikebol64 hope I spelled that right. I just call Him Mike and His theology line up with mine….Peace to you Irene

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 30 2010,02:56)

Irene ……….So please tell me where i have said i am so righteous or consider myself so highely. That is you untruthful mouth saying that not me. I never said such a thing as that. Again you still fail to address my post or the points mentioned there , you just ignore them, so there is not point even discussing this with you. You  ask a question and then we answer and then you just ignore the answer as if we never answered it,  Mike does the same thing also. If you do not consider yourself a Saint of GOD that is fine with me that is your right to do so. But why criticize those who do consider themselves saints of GOD, I believe I have recieved the Spirit of GOD and an a Saint of GOD and a Joint heir with Jesus my Brother. If you chose not to then fine with Me , i can understand why you would not consider yourself a saint or Sister of Jesus because you do Not identify with Him as a REAL HUMAN Being A SON OF MAN so you seperate him from yourself and idolize him as a God or demigod of some kind. peace and lvoe to you and Georg…………………………..gene

Gene! For the last time. Untruthful mouth? When you say that you will be a what? When a person considers himself better then another is self righteousness. That is what you are doing, you denying Scriptures, even the ones were Jesus is saying that He came down from Heaven and that He wants the glory back which He had before the world was. He is a Spirit being and that is what He was before. His reward is that He is now has immortality, He will die no more. John Jesus Brother should know better then you do….. And I believe Jesus and not you……And you know better then Jesus even, how wrong can you get …..Irene

[shimmer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 30 2010,03:43)

Shimmer……….Many 'spoke the words of GOD both in the Old Testament as well as in the New . There is no (ONE) Person speaking Gods Words. Jesus was not the one Speaking Gods words in the old Testament, the prophets were speaking them to us. “FOR GOD SPOKE TO US IN TIMES PAST THROUGH THE PROPHETS, BUT IN THESE LATTER HE HAS SPOKEN TO US THROUGH A SON. THE SON DID NOT EXIST IN THE OLD TESTAMENT EXCEPT IN THE PLAN AND WILL OF GOD HE WAS PROPHESIED TO COME into existences at the right time through the seed of the women as spoken of in Genesis, as well as the prophet Moses and others. The exclusivity of Jesus is to completely miss the who point of our salvation it moves him away from us , it cause us to not (truly) believe we can come to “the measure of the (fullness) of Christ”  as we are told.  It is part of the MYSTERY RELIGION that has decieved all Christendom. It is Antichrist Spoken of by John the Apostle. Shimmer the scripture that say Christ was the Rock that followed the childern in the wilderness is also misunderstood to mean Jesus the man or angle. when in fact it is the SPIRIT OF GOD HIMSELF that is being spoken of there , this Spirit was on all the old leaders of GODS people like Moses and the Seventy elders , Joshua and etc and even the angles who communicated with them also. The Word CHRIST THERE IS CHRISTOS and simply means ANOINTING OR SPIRIT OF GOD. GOD ALONE IS THE ROCK AND THERE IS NO OTHER ROCK BUT HIM. Read where Jesus ask Peter who he was and you will see it is GOD who is the Rock being mentioned there by Jesus. Shimmer don't fall into trap of the false teachers of Preexistences and Trinitarians, They do not except Jesus as one of them or US, they deny him being a SON OF MAN. They have never produced any proof of MORPHING PROCESS WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURE they have brought the “LIE” Hook Line and Sinker. They are even though unaware Antichrists. peace and lvoe to you and yours………………………………gene

Gene, if someone like you or Marty believe different on who Jesus was, the scriptures are not clear, as someone once said, you could make scripture say whatever you want to support whatever you believe, however, I have seen you are humble,  you dont hurt people, and what seems to others to be 'error' what about the heart ? Doesnt God judge the intention of the heart, and also what we do ? There are people here who disagree with you, but they hurt others, they try to be higher than others, what is more important ?

I see things different Gene, but I also agree, because I don't know, so I sit on the fence not knowing for sure (as someone said to me in an abusive pm, “I dont think you know what you believe as it changes from day to day”..and thats only a part of it) well, thats exactly the kind of thing God would not like, God is fair and just and understands our errors,  and has patience, and knows the intentions of the heart. I was never confused untill I saw the debates going on here, and saw the true colors of many people.

[GeneBalthrop]

To All……………Jesus never preexisted his berth on earth , he was not a past angle or demigod or GOD of any kind . He was and is a SON OF MAN. Both now and always will be, He is Son of GOD just as we are, ” KNOW YOU NOT (NOW) ARE YOU THE SONS OF GOD.” John told us. “All who have GOD the Fathers Spirit are (NOW) son of GOD and it is not wrong to consider yourself a Son of GOD Just as Jesus is also. “FOR THE SPIRIT BEARS WITNESS WITH (OUR ) SPIRIT THAT WE (ARE) THE SON OF GOD.”

peace and love to you all………………………….gene

[Proclaimer]

Yes we know what you believe Gene and no amount of repeating that is going to make it right.
I know that some implore repetition as a type of brainwashing and that can work, but that is not the way of Christ.
He respects our free-will which you do not believe in either.

I also choose freely to believe that Jesus said that he existed before Abraham, when he said, “before Abraham was, I am”. I know this is frustrating for you because that single act proves 2 of your main doctrines as wrong.

And in case anyone has a doubt as to what “Before Abraham was, I am” means or how the hearers interpreted it, they said, “you are not yet 50 years old, how can you have seen Abraham”, with which he replied, “Before Abraham was, I am”. I am means that he existed. That is why God said, “I am who I am”. He is the ever existing one.

Of course Jesus wasn't claiming to be God, but simply said “I am” as did many others in scripture, and many today say.

e.g., “are you t8”? I am. In other words, I exist as T8.

Simple stuff. Have a good day.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8………..Be assured i am not trying to brainwash anyone , why would you think that in the first place , because i hold on to my convections , that now makes me a brainwasher of some kind. In fact it could be said the same about you and others here also right?

peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene

[Baker]

Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 30 2010,10:50)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 30 2010,03:43) Shimmer……….Many 'spoke the words of GOD both in the Old Testament as well as in the New . There is no (ONE) Person speaking Gods Words. Jesus was not the one Speaking Gods words in the old Testament, the prophets were speaking them to us. “FOR GOD SPOKE TO US IN TIMES PAST THROUGH THE PROPHETS, BUT IN THESE LATTER HE HAS SPOKEN TO US THROUGH A SON. THE SON DID NOT EXIST IN THE OLD TESTAMENT EXCEPT IN THE PLAN AND WILL OF GOD HE WAS PROPHESIED TO COME into existences at the right time through the seed of the women as spoken of in Genesis, as well as the prophet Moses and others. The exclusivity of Jesus is to completely miss the who point of our salvation it moves him away from us , it cause us to not (truly) believe we can come to “the measure of the (fullness) of Christ”  as we are told.  It is part of the MYSTERY RELIGION that has decieved all Christendom. It is Antichrist Spoken of by John the Apostle. Shimmer the scripture that say Christ was the Rock that followed the childern in the wilderness is also misunderstood to mean Jesus the man or angle. when in fact it is the SPIRIT OF GOD HIMSELF that is being spoken of there , this Spirit was on all the old leaders of GODS people like Moses and the Seventy elders , Joshua and etc and even the angles who communicated with them also. The Word CHRIST THERE IS CHRISTOS and simply means ANOINTING OR SPIRIT OF GOD. GOD ALONE IS THE ROCK AND THERE IS NO OTHER ROCK BUT HIM. Read where Jesus ask Peter who he was and you will see it is GOD who is the Rock being mentioned there by Jesus. Shimmer don't fall into trap of the false teachers of Preexistences and Trinitarians, They do not except Jesus as one of them or US, they deny him being a SON OF MAN. They have never produced any proof of MORPHING PROCESS WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURE they have brought the “LIE” Hook Line and Sinker. They are even though unaware Antichrists. peace and lvoe to you and yours………………………………gene Gene, if someone like you or Marty believe different on who Jesus was, the scriptures are not clear, as someone once said, you could make scripture say whatever you want to support whatever you believe, however, I have seen you are humble,  you dont hurt people, and what seems to others to be 'error' what about the heart ? Doesnt God judge the intention of the heart, and also what we do ? There are people here who disagree with you, but they hurt others, they try to be higher than others, what is more important ? I see things different Gene, but I also agree, because I don't know, so I sit on the fence not knowing for sure (as someone said to me in an abusive pm, “I dont think you know what you believe as it changes from day to day”..and thats only a part of it) well, thats exactly the kind of thing God would not like, God is fair and just and understands our errors,  and has patience, and knows the intentions of the heart. I was never confused untill I saw the debates going on here, and saw the true colors of many people.

Shimmer!  What do you believe?  Is it fair to say that we shoud prove what we believe according to Scriptures?  If Jesus said in  John 17:5 that He wants the glory back which He had before the world was,do you believe it?  Or do you ignore it?  If Jesus said that He came down from Heaven to do the will of His father who send Him, do you believe it? Those are two clear Scriptures and I believe them.  Along with other that Christ was in existing befoe the world was.  The firstborn of all creation….. I know I said all of this before, but t8 is wrong in this, sometimes you have to repeat what is written, or some will walk all over you….
Micah 5:2 says this….the one to be ruler in Israel, Whose going forth have been from of old, From everlasting.  He will come again as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS REV. 19:16……..AND WILL RULE WITH A SHARP SWORD AND WILL STRIKE THE NATIONS  .etc…….Peace Irene

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 29 2010,20:36)

Shimmer, You have the spirit of God in you. Your post, except for a few anomalies, was excellent. Keep on this path for it is the path of truth and righteousness. Sf, what other creatures are in Heaven, or the holy heavens? Please list them for the forum viewers. Ok, let me start you off: God and Angels. Which category is Jesus in?

JA,
What the heck are you rhyming about?
I was Just askin as always abuot what t8 believed.

Is it wrong to Just ask?

Here let me offer you something to show the viewers,

The Son of God is Jesus Christ who is the Word, that created from the beginning and Who revealed God as the Father when he came as a Son of Man.

Why dont you tell me Ja?
do you believe that Jesus is in Angel?

[Author]

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