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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 21 2007,08:13) Hi Gene,
There is oNE kingdom.Christ is the apponted king in the Kingdom of God, of heaven, and of David.
Nick….> why did Jesus say the Kingdom of God comes not with observation, it is with in you. Hardly a physical Kingdom.
God rules in our heart and minds, and this is done through His Holy Spirit, While Jesus' kingdom on earth will rule in power and physical authority, But the people are not like Jesus and the saints because they don't have the Spirit in them, so they will exist in a physical Kingdom under the control of Jesus and the Saints.God's Kingdom is Spiritual
Jesus Kingdom with the Saints is Physical.
God rules in the Heart and Minds of Jesus and the Saints, but not the people they rule over. their minds are not converted that's why at the end of the thousand years they turn against Jesus and the Saints thes simply do not have the Spirit of God in them, so they are not in the Kingdom of God, they are in the Kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saints.
mr. steve …..what do you do with where Peter said Jesus was (ordained) before the world was mades (BUT) was (Manifested) in our day. why did Peter use this terminalogy, Wouldn't he have just said He existed instead Ordained if he were truly alive then, being ordained does not mean you existed except in the plan and will of God. Which i believe the language suports what i am saying. No where does it show any preactivity of any Kind by Jesus.
But I do totally agree whith the rest of your post….thanks ..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 21 2007,08:16) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 21 2007,07:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 21 2007,07:02) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 20 2007,19:06) Sure, Nick, we all offer ideas. You know I am not trying to keep you from sharing or anyone else for that matter. However, like you, I want to point out that we should stick with what is written instead of grabbing scriptures from here and from there to create a theology.
Hi not3,
I would like your opinion on how the verses align or to offer alternative ideas to keep a mutually positive aspect in what we do here. All suggestions are welcome on Psalm2 as it seems the most vital source for Peter and Paul in the OT.
You are a caring Mum. Would you tell your kids never to bake in case they burn their fingers or keep them home from school in case they get bullied?
Sensible caution is fine but we should not be scolding schoolma'ams discouraging honest searching with all it's attendant risks.
Nick, to some degree you are a being a bit silly. I believe this might be a case of you being able to dish-out critical advice, but then not able to receive it?You caution all here to stay within what “is written.” When I encourage you to do the same, somehow you have viewed this as being discouraging. Not so.
When you take from one section of the OT and two sections of the NT, and put them together to form a doctrine (say, preexistence), you must be careful to not create a NEW doctrine.
When one scripture is clear water (Jesus was conceived. God is One.) it is within our best interest to take them at face value and not muddy the clear waters of understanding. Do you think the doctrine of the Trinity would exist if we did not add to the scriptures that say, “God is One”? Do you think the doctrine of preexistence would exist if we did not add to the scriptures that say, “Jesus was conceived”? We should align our beliefs with clear scripture, not align scripture with our muddied beliefs.
We can take scriptures from Gen. to Rev. and make our own doctrines. But when scripture is clear, let it stand on it's own.
Hi not3,
You have yet to respond to the question.I love being corrected on matters of scripture but I do not love negative restrictions being applied to matters of study and the alignment of verses.
Again, no one has applied “negative restrictions” upon you.I did, however, in the “spirit of Nick Hassan” encourage you to stay with what is written and not piece your own theology together. I'm sorry if you cannot take your own advice. Sometimes it is hard to hear our own advice given back to us. But you have encouraged me to not go beyond what is written, you have also encouraged me to not use inference, you have also encouraged me to not rely on my own wisdom and reasoning. You have encouraged me to have faith. I do the same for you, brother.
nick….Yes it;s in 1Peter1:20….Nick i believe Jesus was born of God when the Spirit went into him. The voice said (This Day) i have begotten you, not thousands of years ago. Even if you apply the thousand years is as a day with God theory , It's still at that time God begot him. And people make a big deal out of that word beget as if somehow it magical, but it simply means brought forth and while Jesus was in the Plan of The Father in the beginning he didn't exist and at the right time The Father brought him forth.
thanks…..geneHi Gene,
1Peter 1
“18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, “
Compare Acts 2.23
” 23this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. “God's plan was for the Lamb to be offered. This does not relate to the Monogenes Son's existance but the plan and the prophetic foreknowledge of God. In the same way God's knowledge and plan for us can be see in 1 Peter 1.2 and Eph 1.4
Nick ….Yes, but that does not mean because God had the forknowledge of us or Jesus that we existed . Jeremiah 1:5, ” before I formed you in the womb, I (KNEW YOU); Before you were born I Sanctified you; I (ORDAINED YOU) a prophet to the Nations.
Can we say then Jeremiah prexisted as a being , NO we can't nor can we say with certinty Jesus was alive before he was Manifested either. thanks ….geneNick, if your questions of me were surrounding Psalm 2, you and I have already been through this together. I believe that the main thrust of the Psalm is prophetic – you disagree. We have agreed to disagree.
Hi Gene,
The two matters are not related.
The plan of God reqiuired a sacrificial lamb.
Jesus, the monogenes Son, was sent to become a man and be that sacrifice for men.If while during the meeting the preexistent son knew he was being sent to the earth to become the sacrificial lamb….why did he ask for the cup to pass from him? In the meeting, God must have told him this was the only way, right? I'm not being sarcastic in any way, I am sincere in my question.
Nick…i tell you if God wanted to he could have used you,me, or stones of the ground if he wanted to , and the two Jesus and Jeremiah both show a perknowledge, preordination, and manifsation, all done by God , have not proved the prexistence of Jesus before he was born in my opinion. Present activity by him before he was born and i will change my opinion.
thank nick……geneQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 21 2007,12:18) Hi not3,
Ever had second thoughts?
According to your Jesus – I don't think it would be possible for him to have second thoughts, as you say that from the Jordan God was “in” him and “working through” him. It sounds like you almost mean literally?Hi Not3,
Listen to him in the garden and see how hard it was for him to finally align his will with God's.me think he was showing that threw prayer to the father we can overcome,the will of the flesh to live,and he did over come and took the cup the father gave him,sometimes its harder to be obedeant when we know the pain we will have to go threw,so jesus knowing what he had to go threw ,said father isent there another way,yet in his asking it was still in his heart ,father whatever your will be and he was obedeant,unto death
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 21 2007,12:37) Hi Not3,
Listen to him in the garden and see how hard it was for him to finally align his will with God's.
What if he decided not to align his will?For all of those who do no believe that Yeshua existed in some form before his earthly birth, how do you answer the verse from Hebrews 1?
Hbr 1:10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
Hbr 1:11 THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN; AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
Hbr 1:12 AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP; LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED. BUT YOU ARE THE SAME, AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.”
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