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Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2010,13:15) WJ what is the scriptures that mention that
?
TI agree!
I am merely asking Kerwin if he knows what “Imaculate Conception” means because he seems to think it is the same as the “Incarnation”!
WJ
WJ
immaculate conception,is this not related to to AstarteA Moon goddess worshipped by the Sabaeans (contemporary Yeman, Eritrea) was Astarte, or Ashtart, whom they called Astar, which means “womb.” The giver and destroyer of life, Astar was Queen of Heaven and Mother of all Deities. Arriving from heaven as a ball of fire, and accompanied by a lioness, she was pictured with horns, and a disc of the sun above her forehead.
source: http://www.windweaver.com/sheba/Sheba.htmAstarte was an early artistic theme; small statues were made of her so that women could easily pray to her for fertility. So from Greece to Babylonia, there were various types of statues of Astarte.
Astarte was a wonderful name for our boat, as my mother's name is Esther, and we understand that Esther was the Hebraic form of the goddess's name. My mother was a marriage and sex counselor, making the name especially appropriate.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 16 2010,05:21) WJ
immaculate conception,is this not related to to AstarteA Moon goddess worshipped by the Sabaeans (contemporary Yeman, Eritrea) was Astarte, or Ashtart, whom they called Astar, which means “womb.” The giver and destroyer of life, Astar was Queen of Heaven and Mother of all Deities. Arriving from heaven as a ball of fire, and accompanied by a lioness, she was pictured with horns, and a disc of the sun above her forehead.
source: http://www.windweaver.com/sheba/Sheba.htmAstarte was an early artistic theme; small statues were made of her so that women could easily pray to her for fertility. So from Greece to Babylonia, there were various types of statues of Astarte.
Astarte was a wonderful name for our boat, as my mother's name is Esther, and we understand that Esther was the Hebraic form of the goddess's name. My mother was a marriage and sex counselor, making the name especially appropriate.
I always thought it meant that Mary conceived Jesus without having sex. She conceived by the Holy Spirit which o ne is a miracle. Also there is a Scriptures that says that She did not know Joseph after Jesus was born.
Math. 1:25
IreneQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 16 2010,05:18) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2010,13:15) WJ what is the scriptures that mention that
?
TI agree!
I am merely asking Kerwin if he knows what “Imaculate Conception” means because he seems to think it is the same as the “Incarnation”!
WJ
W.J. It means that She did not know Joseph before Jesus was born, I am putting it like Scripture says. She was a Virgin until then. That is what Immaculate Conception means. It was that She conceived by the Holy Spirit, which to me is a miracle. No sex involved. So many fall over that verse in Math. 1:24 especially the Catholics who think that Maria stayed a Virgin….And it has nothing to do with Jesus preexisting.
IreneQuote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 15 2010,14:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 16 2010,05:18) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2010,13:15) WJ what is the scriptures that mention that
?
TI agree!
I am merely asking Kerwin if he knows what “Imaculate Conception” means because he seems to think it is the same as the “Incarnation”!
WJ
W.J. It means that She did not know Joseph before Jesus was born, I am putting it like Scripture says. She was a Virgin until then. That is what Immaculate Conception means. It was that She conceived by the Holy Spirit, which to me is a miracle. No sex involved. So many fall over that verse in Math. 1:24 especially the Catholics who think that Maria stayed a Virgin….And it has nothing to do with Jesus preexisting.
IreneQuote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 15 2010,14:24) [That is what Immaculate Conception means. It was that She conceived by the Holy Spirit, which to me is a miracle.
No Irene, that is not what it means…Blessings WJ
Scripture states that it was Jesus Christ who was SENT, not a spirit son was sent, but the MAN who was PROMISED to one day come was SENT.
Jesus the MAN who died on the cross is the express image of the Father.
Jesus the MAN born of Mary is the firstborn over all creation. A spirit son was not the first thing God created, but the MAN Jesus Christ was declared firstborn by the Father giving Jesus Adam's birthright.
Hi thethinker:
Relative to Number 20:16, I suppose the following scriptures apply. But yes, God delivered the people out of Egypt through Moses:
Quote 1Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. 2And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
7And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows;
8And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
9Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them.
10Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.
11And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt?
Based on these scriptures the Angel or messenger would be His Holy Spirit.
Love in Christ,
MartyThe Spirit of Wisdom in Proverbs is God our Almighty Father's Spirit, it represents the Father's OWN intelligence, it is not some creature the Father made to be wisdom for Him. The Father delights in His OWN creation and in His Own intelligence that He used to create it.
Jodi……….They do not understand that SPIRIT (IS) intellects, and there are SEVEN Spirit (intellects) of ONE GOD, Wisdom is one of the seven. No Person is Wisdom, a person (HAS) wisdom , it is a Spirit (intellect) in the person. Spirit is Not a Being, it is what is (IN) the Being, His intellect. You are right GOD used His Wisdom to create everything in existence. That was (NOT) Jesus, but GOD (HIMSELF) and (ALONE) as He said He did. That is all they have to do is read the Book of Isaiah and it all there, but they chose to not believe what GOD SAID concerning What he did BY HIMSELF> IMO
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 16 2010,00:00) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 13 2010,20:12) Irene, I find the idea of preexistence contradicts the idea of an immaculate conception as well as the idea that Jesus is full human as we are. I also am convinced it is necessary to believe the later in order for the promise of the spirit of righteousness to become complete in a person.
KerwinDo you understand what “immaculate conception” is?
Blessings WJ
The “immaculate” means completely near and clean and I probably do not understand it the same way it is taught in Catholic doctrine. I probably should use the word “virgin” instead. Thank you for the correction.hi
wen Jesus died on the cross it was the man called Jesus who died ,and his spirit wen back to God who changed him in time to accomplish his word,God can not lie,Jesus had to stay 3 day in the grave,
only wen all things were done that he moved on to his father to regain the position he had before,
wait until God submit all his enemy.Irene,
As I pointed out earlier I am convinced that any individual who believes scripture supports the tenet of preexistence is simply misunderstanding scripture. I have decided it is pointless to quibble with them if they do not understand the root message of salvation. For that reason I went into a discussion about God’s promise of righteousness and expressed my surprise when Terrarica did not appear to understand it. I was surprised is that promise is self evident if you understand the characteristics of the true God.
I did write of my surprise in my posts addressed to her so you may not have followed that part.
Becoming righteous as God is righteous through faith that Jesus is the Anointed One of God is the main part of the message of salvation and any teacher that threatens that accomplishment must be discarded as false.
Quote (martian @ Nov. 08 2009,01:57)
If Christ preexisted in a form that was conscious and capable of action and thought, what happened to his memories of that time? Was that Christ killed in favor of the one born to Mary?
secondly was there any advantage given christ because of his preexistance? If so, how can we become like one that has an advantage not available to us?Quote (banana) I don't know if I answered that or not, but I will do now. Jesus did know where He came from, otherwise He could not have said what He did in
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the world was.”
We do know what glory He went back with, and so we know what He had before the world was. He was a Spirit being. IMO God had to send someone like Jesus that knew what was at stake and did not sin. He was not an ordinary Human being. How could a 12 year old boy go into the Temple and teach like Jesus did. No way. If Jesus would be just like any other Human being He would have sinned. All have fallen short of the glory of God, and that would have including Jesus if He would be just an ordinary Human being and did not know where He came from.Jesus KNEW that he was the Messiah, that is WHAT Jesus KNEW. He knew that he was the MAN promised to Abraham of whom God had showed would come and it made Abraham rejoice to see “his day”. Jesus knew that he was the promised seed of David who would be Holy and who was promised to have flesh that would NOT see corruption.
Jesus KNEW that he was the MAN who would SAVE people from their sins.
Irene Jesus KNEW the scriptures, and He knew that his Father's Spirit was at work in him. Jesus knew that he was a promise made before time began, and he knew that his Father promised before time began eternal life to MEN. Jesus knew that he was to become the firstborn of the dead being made into a heavenly man having eternal FLESH that could not be corrupted.
You say Irene, “If Jesus would be just like any other Human being He would have sinned. All have fallen short of the glory of God, and that would have including Jesus if He would be just an ordinary Human being and did not know where He came from.”
Jesus was tempted in every way as we were, the difference was NOT because he pre-existed and that is why he did not sin, to say such is just unbelievably WRONG IMO, it destroys the WHOLE POINT of TRUTH the Father was trying to make which was that by our own selves we can do nothing, the purpose of the law was to prove that. The purpose of Christ was to show us that we need the Father's Spirit working in us. Christ HAD to be an “ordinary” human to PROVE that point.
Certainly we could say that Jesus was no ordinary human because he had the Spirit of God working in him, but to say he was not ordinary in meaning he was something more than human is false.
Jesus did not sin because the Spirit of the Father was working IN him. Our flesh profits us nothing, through Christ we know that in order for us to be MADE perfect we need God's Spirit leading us.
To say that Jesus our Messiah was a sinless man because he pre-existed is the purest form of FALSE DOCTRINE I have EVER scene.
There have been many children throughout all of history that have shown extreme intelligence by age 12, and maturity as well. There are kids in the United States who have entered college at the age of 12 some were even only 10. These children were doing high school level work at age 6.Jesus being able to speak to men in the temple at age 12 would not have to mean that he must have pre-existed.
Is That not what you are saying Irene?The GLORY in Jesus is that of a MAN perfected through the work of the Father's Spirit, and that perfection which occurred even through suffering at the end of Jesus mortal life, was deserving of Eternal Life. The glory in CHRIST, the anointed MAN, has NOTHING to do with him pre-existing as some other being. Jesus KNEW full well that he was to FULFILL the Father's promise that existed in the beginning. When he spoke to the Father asking for glory, he was speaking of THAT glory, the glory of eternal life in a MAN.
Believing in Christ is believing that his flesh did not see corruption but was made into incorruptible flesh, ALL because he had been perfected through the work of the Father's Spirit.
Believing in Christ is not about believing he saved us because he was more then human having pre-existed. It is not about him going from a spirit being to a human, back to a spirit being.
Jodi
IT SEEMS YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT SIN IS??and you look like you do not know how the spirit of God is acquired??
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 17 2010,03:39) Quote (martian @ Nov. 08 2009,01:57)
If Christ preexisted in a form that was conscious and capable of action and thought, what happened to his memories of that time? Was that Christ killed in favor of the one born to Mary?
secondly was there any advantage given christ because of his preexistance? If so, how can we become like one that has an advantage not available to us?Quote (banana) I don't know if I answered that or not, but I will do now. Jesus did know where He came from, otherwise He could not have said what He did in
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the world was.”
We do know what glory He went back with, and so we know what He had before the world was. He was a Spirit being. IMO God had to send someone like Jesus that knew what was at stake and did not sin. He was not an ordinary Human being. How could a 12 year old boy go into the Temple and teach like Jesus did. No way. If Jesus would be just like any other Human being He would have sinned. All have fallen short of the glory of God, and that would have including Jesus if He would be just an ordinary Human being and did not know where He came from.Jesus KNEW that he was the Messiah, that is WHAT Jesus KNEW. He knew that he was the MAN promised to Abraham of whom God had showed would come and it made Abraham rejoice to see “his day”. Jesus knew that he was the promised seed of David who would be Holy and who was promised to have flesh that would NOT see corruption.
Jesus KNEW that he was the MAN who would SAVE people from their sins.
Irene Jesus KNEW the scriptures, and He knew that his Father's Spirit was at work in him. Jesus knew that he was a promise made before time began, and he knew that his Father promised before time began eternal life to MEN. Jesus knew that he was to become the firstborn of the dead being made into a heavenly man having eternal FLESH that could not be corrupted.
You say Irene, “If Jesus would be just like any other Human being He would have sinned. All have fallen short of the glory of God, and that would have including Jesus if He would be just an ordinary Human being and did not know where He came from.”
Jesus was tempted in every way as we were, the difference was NOT because he pre-existed and that is why he did not sin, to say such is just unbelievably WRONG IMO, it destroys the WHOLE POINT of TRUTH the Father was trying to make which was that by our own selves we can do nothing, the purpose of the law was to prove that. The purpose of Christ was to show us that we need the Father's Spirit working in us. Christ HAD to be an “ordinary” human to PROVE that point.
Certainly we could say that Jesus was no ordinary human because he had the Spirit of God working in him, but to say he was not ordinary in meaning he was something more than human is false.
Jesus did not sin because the Spirit of the Father was working IN him. Our flesh profits us nothing, through Christ we know that in order for us to be MADE perfect we need God's Spirit leading us.
To say that Jesus our Messiah was a sinless man because he pre-existed is the purest form of FALSE DOCTRINE I have EVER scene.
There have been many children throughout all of history that have shown extreme intelligence by age 12, and maturity as well. There are kids in the United States who have entered college at the age of 12 some were even only 10. These children were doing high school level work at age 6.Jesus being able to speak to men in the temple at age 12 would not have to mean that he must have pre-existed.
Is That not what you are saying Irene?The GLORY in Jesus is that of a MAN perfected through the work of the Father's Spirit, and that perfection which occurred even through suffering at the end of Jesus mortal life, was deserving of Eternal Life. The glory in CHRIST, the anointed MAN, has NOTHING to do with him pre-existing as some other being. Jesus KNEW full well that he was to FULFILL the Father's promise that existed in the beginning. When he spoke to the Father asking for glory, he was speaking of THAT glory, the glory of eternal life in a MAN.
Believing in Christ is believing that his flesh did not see corruption but was made into incorruptible flesh, ALL because he had been perfected through the work of the Father's Spirit.
Believing in Christ is not about believing he saved us because he was more then human having pre-existed. It is not about him going from a spirit being to a human, back to a spirit being.
Hi Jodi:You say that Jesus did not sin because he had the Spirit of God dwelling within him, and so do we, but we do sin. The Spirit of God is our helper. Jesus did every thing that our Father showed him to do.
Also, Jesus did not sin under the Law. He did not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within at that time.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (kerwin @ Feb. 16 2010,20:24) Irene, As I pointed out earlier I am convinced that any individual who believes scripture supports the tenet of preexistence is simply misunderstanding scripture. I have decided it is pointless to quibble with them if they do not understand the root message of salvation. For that reason I went into a discussion about God’s promise of righteousness and expressed my surprise when Terrarica did not appear to understand it. I was surprised is that promise is self evident if you understand the characteristics of the true God.
I did write of my surprise in my posts addressed to her so you may not have followed that part.
Becoming righteous as God is righteous through faith that Jesus is the Anointed One of God is the main part of the message of salvation and any teacher that threatens that accomplishment must be discarded as false.
However I like to know what you are going to do with the Scriptures that I quoted. I also don't believe that one has to do with the other. Jesus died for us and the Salvation is by Faith in Christ and is a free gift from God. And even Jesus own words you and others want to do away with. When Jesus became a man He emptied Himself and became flesh. The righteousness of Jesus has always been within Him. In fact IMO if all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, if Jesus would be a mere man, He too would have sinned. But because He knew what was at stake He did not.
I would certainly go with you if these Scriptures were not more then one and would say O.K. it is an error. But not with more then one.
I believe Scriptures, and most are true. And how can you misunderstand those Scriptures? It says I was there with the Father before the world was. What is there to misunderstand about. Also firstborn of all creation? No my friend it is your misunderstanding of those Scriptures. Explain to me what you think those Scriptures do mean?
He was the firstborn of all creation and firstborn of the dead, so that in all things He may have PREEMINENCE. Don't deny Scriptures!!!!! Sorry but I simple don't understand you…..And I don't quibble the root message of salvation? I do know what that is. The good News, yes and God send His Son into the world to save the world that through Him we might be saveth. Send Him, where from…
I have come to do the will of my Father who is in Heaven. And I am going back again there, were I was before the world was.
Open your eyes my Friend.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (942767 @ Feb. 17 2010,09:14) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 17 2010,03:39) Quote (martian @ Nov. 08 2009,01:57)
If Christ preexisted in a form that was conscious and capable of action and thought, what happened to his memories of that time? Was that Christ killed in favor of the one born to Mary?
secondly was there any advantage given christ because of his preexistance? If so, how can we become like one that has an advantage not available to us?Quote (banana) I don't know if I answered that or not, but I will do now. Jesus did know where He came from, otherwise He could not have said what He did in
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the world was.”
We do know what glory He went back with, and so we know what He had before the world was. He was a Spirit being. IMO God had to send someone like Jesus that knew what was at stake and did not sin. He was not an ordinary Human being. How could a 12 year old boy go into the Temple and teach like Jesus did. No way. If Jesus would be just like any other Human being He would have sinned. All have fallen short of the glory of God, and that would have including Jesus if He would be just an ordinary Human being and did not know where He came from.Jesus KNEW that he was the Messiah, that is WHAT Jesus KNEW. He knew that he was the MAN promised to Abraham of whom God had showed would come and it made Abraham rejoice to see “his day”. Jesus knew that he was the promised seed of David who would be Holy and who was promised to have flesh that would NOT see corruption.
Jesus KNEW that he was the MAN who would SAVE people from their sins.
Irene Jesus KNEW the scriptures, and He knew that his Father's Spirit was at work in him. Jesus knew that he was a promise made before time began, and he knew that his Father promised before time began eternal life to MEN. Jesus knew that he was to become the firstborn of the dead being made into a heavenly man having eternal FLESH that could not be corrupted.
You say Irene, “If Jesus would be just like any other Human being He would have sinned. All have fallen short of the glory of God, and that would have including Jesus if He would be just an ordinary Human being and did not know where He came from.”
Jesus was tempted in every way as we were, the difference was NOT because he pre-existed and that is why he did not sin, to say such is just unbelievably WRONG IMO, it destroys the WHOLE POINT of TRUTH the Father was trying to make which was that by our own selves we can do nothing, the purpose of the law was to prove that. The purpose of Christ was to show us that we need the Father's Spirit working in us. Christ HAD to be an “ordinary” human to PROVE that point.
Certainly we could say that Jesus was no ordinary human because he had the Spirit of God working in him, but to say he was not ordinary in meaning he was something more than human is false.
Jesus did not sin because the Spirit of the Father was working IN him. Our flesh profits us nothing, through Christ we know that in order for us to be MADE perfect we need God's Spirit leading us.
To say that Jesus our Messiah was a sinless man because he pre-existed is the purest form of FALSE DOCTRINE I have EVER scene.
There have been many children throughout all of history that have shown extreme intelligence by age 12, and maturity as well. There are kids in the United States who have entered college at the age of 12 some were even only 10. These children were doing high school level work at age 6.Jesus being able to speak to men in the temple at age 12 would not have to mean that he must have pre-existed.
Is That not what you are saying Irene?The GLORY in Jesus is that of a MAN perfected through the work of the Father's Spirit, and that perfection which occurred even through suffering at the end of Jesus mortal life, was deserving of Eternal Life. The glory in CHRIST, the anointed MAN, has NOTHING to do with him pre-existing as some other being. Jesus KNEW full well that he was to FULFILL the Father's promise that existed in the beginning. When he spoke to the Father asking for glory, he was speaking of THAT glory, the glory of eternal life in a MAN.
Believing in Christ is believing that his flesh did not see corruption but was made into incorruptible flesh, ALL because he had been perfected through the work of the Father's Spirit.
Believing in Christ is not about believing he saved us because he was more then human having pre-existed. It is not about him going from a spirit being to a human, back to a spirit being.
Hi Jodi:You say that Jesus did not sin because he had the Spirit of God dwelling within him, and so do we, but we do sin. The Spirit of God is our helper. Jesus did every thing that our Father showed him to do.
Also, Jesus did not sin under the Law. He did not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within at that time.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,I'm not exactly sure what your point was in the above. Both John and Jesus had God's Spirit guiding them since they were in the womb of their mothers. Jesus was of course given a measure of the Spirit that cannot be compared to any other human. Scripture directly tells us that it is through God putting His Spirit in man that causes man to be obedient keeping God's statues.
Isaiah 42:1 “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
Matthew 12:18 “Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen, My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased! I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He will declare justice to the Gentiles. 19 He will not quarrel nor cry out, Nor will anyone hear His voice in the streets. 20 A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench, Till He sends forth justice to victory; 21 And in His name Gentiles will trust.”
Romans 5: 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
Hebrews 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Ezekiel 36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
Ezekiel 37:14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and p
erformed it,” says the Lord.' “Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. 15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
Hebrews 5:8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
The measure of God's Spirit that was in Jesus worked to keep him from sin, causing him to fully follow God's statues.
Irene wrote:
Quote In fact IMO if all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, if Jesus would be a mere man, He too would have sinned.
And yet scripture insists Jesus was a mere man who was tempted even as we are but without sin and now serves as a mediator between God and mankind. Hebrews 4:15 and 1 Timothy 2:5
He did this to show us that with God all things are possible even though without God we fall short of God’s glory.
“All” does not include Jesus just like Jesus having authority over “Everything” does not include God. 1 Corinthians 15:27
Irene wrote:
Quote Jesus died for us and the Salvation is by Faith in Christ and is a free gift from God.
It is true that God offers each of us a gift as long as we believe and so reach out and take that gift. Romans 1:17, Romans 3:22, Romans 9:30, and others
That gift is the righteousness that is like God’s and comes through living according to the ways of the spirit. Galatians 5:16
The result of walking by the Spirit is that we will inherit eternal life. Ezekiel 18:31-32
Irene wrote:
Quote However I like to know what you are going to do with the Scriptures that I quoted. I also don't believe that one has to do with the other.
I am convinced that all things that are important to the gospel are connected and thus if you solidly understand the basics all the rest will become clear for you.
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