Preexistence

[Lightenup]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 24 2008,16:34)

Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2008,01:35) Hello Is 1:18, Imperfect The imperfect tense generally represents continual or repeated action. Where the present tense might indicate “they are asking,” the imperfect would indicate “they kept on asking.” In the case of the verb “to be,” however, the imperfect tense is used as a general past tense and does not carry the connotation of continual or repeated action. I copied and pasted this from http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=5713&tool=grk That is in direct opposition of what you wrote.   They can't both be right. God bless, LU Not it isn't. I said an imperfect tense denotes continuous action (quoting A T Robertson, by the way), which is exactly what your source also spells out. Did you misunderstand? Blessings

Hi Isaiah,

The verb “to be” is where “was” comes from. By conjugating “to be” we get the words like: is, am ,are, WAS, were, be, being, been. See, now reread my post that says:

In the case of the verb “to be,” however, the imperfect tense is used as a general past tense and does not carry the connotation of continual or repeated action.

God bless ya 1:18,
LU

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ May 24 2008,16:06)

Hi Lightenup: I guess that I am a little slow to understand, but what action is the Word doing in this context?

Hi 94,
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God.

the “word”, the subject of each phrase, was being in existence in the past and in an active way.

God bless,
LU

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2008,09:44)

Quote (942767 @ May 24 2008,16:06) Hi Lightenup: I guess that I am a little slow to understand, but what action is the Word doing in this context? Hi 94, In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God. the “word”, the subject of each phrase, was being in existence in the past and in an active way. God bless, LU

Hi Lightenup:

Active in what way?

[Is 1:18]

Quote (942767 @ May 25 2008,09:32)

And I did not get a response from you relative to the passage of scripture that I quoted about being Jesus being “one” with the Father in the spirit and we being “one” in the spirit with them.

I'll get to it, my kids using the computer quite a lot these days, so it's hard to find the time to fully respond to all the points addessed to me. And hey, lets be fair about this SDN, I don't see you adressing many of my points!!

Blessings

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2008,09:40)

In the case of the verb “to be,” however, the imperfect tense is used as a general past tense and does not carry the connotation of continual or repeated action.

Hello LU,
According to A. T Robertson, and probably about every other kione Greek grammarian worth his/her salt, it does:

Was (hn). Three times in this sentence John uses this imperfect of eimi to be which conveys no idea of origin for God or for the Logos, simply continuous existence. Quite a different verb (egeneto, became) appears in verse John 1:14 for the beginning of the Incarnation of the Logos.
From: http://bibletools.org/index.c….NT

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2008,09:44)

Quote (942767 @ May 24 2008,16:06) Hi Lightenup: I guess that I am a little slow to understand, but what action is the Word doing in this context? Hi 94, In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God. the “word”, the subject of each phrase, was being in existence in the past and in an active way. God bless, LU

See I agree with this, I'm now wondering if you and I have been talking at cross purposes LU.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (942767 @ May 25 2008,08:24)

Jesus made it quite clear that he did not teach his own thoughts.  Yes, they are one in the spirit.  And we, who are born again Christians should be one in the spirit with them also. Quote Jhn 17:18  As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. Jhn 17:19  And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Jhn 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;  Jhn 17:21  That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. God Bless

Brother SDN,
You've assumed that the oneness spoken of here is exactly the same as that spoken of in John 10:30. I don't agree that it is. Joh 1:1, Col 2:9, Phil 2:6 and Heb 1:3 all show that Yeshua had/has a godly nature. He is One with God in His nature. So in all likelyhood it was this is what He alluded to in John 10:30. John 17 is speaking of the body of Christ, which to me is more to do with the collective body of believers being bound together by the Holy Spirit of God. We are transformed by the fusion of our spirit with the Spirit of God, yes, but we should not conclude from this that we acquire godly nature. Lest we fall into the same theological trap the Mormons (and t8) have. We are humans with a human nature. This will always be so.

[Proclaimer]

Good morning Is 1:18.

If you do not want to participate in divine nature Is 1:18 by reason of your doctrine then that is your choice.

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

We should try and receive all of God's (good) promises. He is generous and wants to give good things to us.

[Is 1:18]

I've answered that a few times now. You've misinterpreted the verse. You might be into polytheism t8 but I want no part of it.

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ May 24 2008,17:55)

Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2008,09:44) Quote (942767 @ May 24 2008,16:06) Hi Lightenup: I guess that I am a little slow to understand, but what action is the Word doing in this context? Hi 94, In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God. the “word”, the subject of each phrase, was being in existence in the past and in an active way. God bless, LU Hi Lightenup: Active in what way?

Hi 94,
I'm sorry I thought I had answered that for you in the quoted post. I just wasn't clear enough, I guess.

In the beginning, the word existed. That is the action-it existed (past tense, active voice). It existed in an active way and not in a passive way.

Then we ask, “what word actively existed in the beginning?”

So the “word” had to be something different than just a word because a word doesn't actively exist.

I think that the “word” is in reference to the “Light” of day one because that is what comes into existence as a result of the first “word” spoken by God in the “beginning”. After it came into existence, it existed in an active way, and it existed with God in an active way.

In summary my understanding:

In the beginning was the word “let there be light”
and the word was with God the light existed with God
and the word was God the light was God, the begotten one.

The Light of day one was the firstborn of creation. The light of day one was the introduction of the Son of God as a heavenly being. The Son of God is the true light from the father of lights.

So, 94, that's that.

Blessings to you and G'nite

[Lightenup]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 24 2008,18:52)

Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2008,09:40) In the case of the verb “to be,” however, the imperfect tense is used as a general past tense and does not carry the connotation of continual or repeated action. Hello LU, According to A. T Robertson, and probably about every other kione Greek grammarian worth his/her salt, it does: Was (hn). Three times in this sentence John uses this imperfect of eimi to be which conveys no idea of origin for God or for the Logos, simply continuous existence. Quite a different verb (egeneto, became) appears in verse John 1:14 for the beginning of the Incarnation of the Logos. From: http://bibletools.org/index.c….NT

Hi Is 1:18,
Well I guess you should have your scholars call my scholars

So maybe we should dig deeper into why my scholar said what they did since they were speaking specifically about the word in debate “was” the form of “to be”. Since they singled out “to be” as not like the other imperfect verbs. Don't you want to know that answer or are you satisfied to assume they do not know a hill of beans about it. From reading your posts, I would think that you would want to investigate their view more thoroughly.

I do not know what John 1:14 has to do with the discussion on the word was in John 1:1.

Blessings to you,
LU

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 25 2008,11:18)

I've answered that a few times now. You've misinterpreted the verse. You might be into polytheism t8 but I want no part of it.

Your God is 3 persons, I believe the Father is the one true God. Yet somehow I am the Polytheist. Well it makes no sense, but you are entitled to make no sense.

[942767]

Hi Lightenup:

You give me a summary of your understanding as follows:

Quote

In summary my understanding: In the beginning was the word        “let there be light” and the word was with God              the light existed with God and the word was God                      the light was God, the begotten one

And so, according to you, the light existed with God and the the light was God the begotten one.  Two Gods?

[942767]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 25 2008,10:52)

Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2008,09:40) In the case of the verb “to be,” however, the imperfect tense is used as a general past tense and does not carry the connotation of continual or repeated action. Hello LU, According to A. T Robertson, and probably about every other kione Greek grammarian worth his/her salt, it does: Was (hn). Three times in this sentence John uses this imperfect of eimi to be which conveys no idea of origin for God or for the Logos, simply continuous existence. Quite a different verb (egeneto, became) appears in verse John 1:14 for the beginning of the Incarnation of the Logos. From: http://bibletools.org/index.c….NT

Hi Bro. Isaiah:

And so, the Only Begotten Son of God always existed?

[seek and you will find]

942767 I said this before I do not think that we should just ignore scripture like John 1:1 and Col. 1:15-18 and Rev. 3:14 and say Oh this is only in God's mind, which to me is a cop out.
We know that there is the Almighty God Jehovah, and we have the Son of God Jesus Christ. When I read that He was the first born of all creation and came forth from the Father, I do believe that that did not mean that He was born of flesh. That happened later. John also speaks of that. So when we can put all the pieces together and they fit, I find that to be the truth, that God has shown us. God is only a title and even Satan is called the God of this world. There were many God's in Ancient time. It also says that He had a glory with the Father before the world was. I believe that He was a Spirit being like the Angels are. And now He is greater then the Angels and sits at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to reign a thousand years as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and Satan will be chained and only the truth will be taught. The Bible speaks of a Street of Holiness and that the truth will cover the earth like the water covers the sea. Then Satan will be loosed again and all will be tested and millions again will follow Satan into the Lake of Fire. When all is done Jesus then will give the Kingdom back to the Father so God can be all in all.
Peace and Love Mrs.

[942767]

Quote (seek and you will find @ May 26 2008,09:29)

942767 I said this before I do not think that we should just ignore scripture like John 1:1 and Col. 1:15-18 and Rev. 3:14 and say Oh this is only in God's mind, which to me is a cop out. We know that there is the Almighty God Jehovah, and we have the Son of God Jesus Christ. When I read that He was the first born of all creation and came forth from the Father, I do believe that that did not mean that He was born of flesh. That happened later. John also speaks of that. So when we can put all the pieces together and they fit, I find that to be the truth, that God has shown us. God is only a title and even Satan is called the God of this world. There were many God's in Ancient time. It also says that He had a glory with the Father before the world was. I believe that He was a Spirit being like the Angels are. And now He is greater then the Angels and sits at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to reign a thousand years as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and Satan will be chained and only the truth will be taught. The Bible speaks of a Street of Holiness and that the truth will cover the earth like the water covers the sea. Then Satan will be loosed again and all will be tested and millions again will follow Satan into the Lake of Fire. When all is done Jesus then will give the Kingdom back to the Father so God can be all in all. Peace and Love Mrs.

Hi Mrs:

I am not ignoring those scriptures.  I have given you my understanding of them which happens to be different than what you seem to believe.

Ulitmately, what matters IMHO is that we know that God is a reality and that His testimony regarding Jesus is true by the Spirit of God dwelling within us.

However, it does matter that we study to show ourselves approved by God to teach His Word if we are going to teach the scriptures to others.  We cannot teach others until we are first taught ourselves.  And just because you or I may believe that we are correct in what we are teaching does not make it so unless God confirms what we are teaching.  In other words either you or I are wrong in our understanding about this matter.

God Bless

[seek and you will find]

Quote (942767 @ May 26 2008,10:14)

Quote (seek and you will find @ May 26 2008,09:29) 942767 I said this before I do not think that we should just ignore scripture like John 1:1 and Col. 1:15-18 and Rev. 3:14 and say Oh this is only in God's mind, which to me is a cop out. We know that there is the Almighty God Jehovah, and we have the Son of God Jesus Christ. When I read that He was the first born of all creation and came forth from the Father, I do believe that that did not mean that He was born of flesh. That happened later. John also speaks of that. So when we can put all the pieces together and they fit, I find that to be the truth, that God has shown us. God is only a title and even Satan is called the God of this world. There were many God's in Ancient time. It also says that He had a glory with the Father before the world was. I believe that He was a Spirit being like the Angels are. And now He is greater then the Angels and sits at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to reign a thousand years as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and Satan will be chained and only the truth will be taught. The Bible speaks of a Street of Holiness and that the truth will cover the earth like the water covers the sea. Then Satan will be loosed again and all will be tested and millions again will follow Satan into the Lake of Fire. When all is done Jesus then will give the Kingdom back to the Father so God can be all in all. Peace and Love Mrs. Hi Mrs: I am not ignoring those scriptures.  I have given you my understanding of them which happens to be different than what you seem to believe. Ulitmately, what matters IMHO is that we know that God is a reality and that His testimony regarding Jesus is true by the Spirit of God dwelling within us. However, it does matter that we study to show ourselves approved by God to teach His Word if we are going to teach the scriptures to others.  We cannot teach others until we are first taught ourselves.  And just because you or I may believe that we are correct in what we are teaching does not make it so unless God confirms what we are teaching.  In other words either you or I are wrong in our understanding about this matter. God Bless God Bless

that is true, that we all have to learn, and could I be wrong, yes. This is just the way I understand and I am not here to teach others. I am here to fellowship and share, that is all. The Bible teaches that all we need to understand the truth is God's Holy Spirit, we do not need a teacher or a Human being to teach us. We have received God's Holy Spirit at Baptizm and He will teach us all things.
Bless you too
Peace and Love Mrs.

[942767]

Hi Mrs.

There are many good things that I notice that you do to help others on this forum such as offering them encouragement when they are down, and praying for them.  I see Jesus in you by these actions.

God Bless

[GeneBalthrop]

To all………..see Jesus as a elder brother who our Father put over us. Let you eyes see him and yourself as the same, and whats in him is in you and whats in you is in him. For we and Jesus are all born through one spirit by ONE GOD, unto ONE HOPE>

Our Father has placed our brother Jesus as the firstborn in the Family and therefore He is entitled the honor due that position of first born and He deserves the respect due him. Not to mention what he has done for us, He acts in the Fathers behalf as is a full representative of our Father to us. But remember He is representing the Father not bing Him. Therefore we should all bow to Jesus (TO THE GLORY OF THE FATHER)>

peace to you all……..Your brother also in Jesus and the Father…..gene

[seek and you will find]

Quote (942767 @ May 26 2008,11:51)

Hi Mrs. There are many good things that I notice that you do to help others on this forum such as offering them encouragement when they are down, and praying for them.  I see Jesus in you by these actions. God Bless

942767 Thank you for that compliment, I like to do those things, and it comes easy. I was not always like that, and looking back I can see what God has done for me, and He deserves all the credit.
Bless you and yours
Peace and Love Mrs.

[Author]

Posts