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Hi Oxy,
So we are not made in the image of God after all?
Or perhaps our spirits can be separate from us?
This is confusingQuote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 20 2007,16:49) Hi Oxy,
So we are not made in the image of God after all?
Or perhaps our spirits can be separate from us?
This is confusing
We are indeed made in the image of God, body, soul and spirit, but we are not God. Hence the difference.God is omnipresent, we are not.
Oxy God uses His Spirit in ways we cannot but we still don't deny having a spirit.
The son of man has the same Spirit without measure. But the son of man also has His own spirit. That's what makes Him the Son of God. A different person than the Father but having the same Spirit.Is the Holy Spirit another Son?
Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 20 2007,16:54) Oxy God uses His Spirit in ways we cannot but we still don't deny having a spirit.
The son of man has the same Spirit without measure. But the son of man also has His own spirit. That's what makes Him the Son of God. A different person than the Father but having the same Spirit.Is the Holy Spirit another Son?
Is that a silly question?In the beginning there was no Son. There was God almighty, The Spirit of God and the Word of God. The three were one.
Then the Word was made a little lower than the angels, and became flesh.
When He was baptised He was empowered with the Holy Spirit, but the fullness of the Father was in Him from when He was born.
Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,13:49) Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 20 2007,13:33) Oxy There are scriptures that clearly tell you that Jesus preexisted before the world began. If it says that He was the firstborn of all creatures, would you not think that that is a person and not just in the future? He existed before He became a man born of Mary.
Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN OVER ALL CREATION.
verse 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are in earth, visible and invisible…. ALL THINGS WERE CREATED THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM.
Rev. 3:14 These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.THIS IS THE TRUTH YOU MAY BELIEF IT OR DENY IT, THAT IS UP TO YOU, BUT I BELIEF IF YOU HAVE GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT YOU WILL UNDERSTAND AND BELIEF WHAT I AND SOME OTHERS ARE SAYING. AND I AM NOT A JEHOVAH WITNESS EITHER.
AS FAR AS PROVERBS IS CONCERNED I ALSO THINK YOU ARE WRONG IN THE JAMES MOFFATT TRANSLATION IT EXPLAINS IT THESE WAY
PROVERB 8:22 THE ETERNAL FORMED ME FIRST OF HIAS CREATION, FIRST OF ALL HIS WORKS IN DAYS OF OLD.
V.23 I WAS FASHIONED IN THE EARLIEST AGES, FROM THE VERY FIRST, WHEN EARTH BEGAN.
V. 24 I WAS BORN WHEN THERE WERE NO ABYSSES, WHEN THERE WERE NO FOUNTAINS FULL OF WATER.
V.25 ERE HE SUNK THE BASIS OF THE MOUNTAINS, ERE THE HILLS EXISTED, I WAS B O R N.
V. 26 WHEN EARTH AND FIELDS WERE NOT CREATED, NOR THE VERY FIRST CLODS OF THE WORLD.
V. 27 WHEN HE SET THE HEAVEN UP, I W A S T H E R E WHEN HE DREW THE VAULT O'RE THE ABYSS.
V. 28 WHEN HE MADE THE CLOUDS FIRM OVERHEAD, WHEN HE FIXED THE FOUNTAINS OF THE DEEP.
V. 29 WHEN HE SET THE BOUNDARIES OF THE SEA, WHEN HE LAID THE FOUNDATION FOR THE EARTH.
V. 30 I WAS WITH HIM THEN HIS FOSTER CHILD I WAS HIS DELIGHT DAY AFTER DAY, PLAYING IN HIS PRESENCE CONSTANTLY.I sure hope you will once and for all belief, I know how it is, I did not want to belief this either at first and I thought this is crazy. But God did not leave me in that belief and I thank Him for that understanding.
I want to touch on something else that is just my belief and is not that I can prove that is scipture. I have wondered if Jesus was just a man like us, if He would not have sinned. I belief because He was taught by the Father right from the start, that He did have the Fathers Spirit full strength and therefore would or could not have sinned, even tho He was tempted like we were. He knew what was at stake. Thanks be to our Heavenly Father and Our Savior Jesus Christ for dying on the cross for us so we can have eternal life. AmenPeace and Love Mrs.
Hi IM4Truth,If you read on a couple of verses on Colosians it clarifies “First Born over all creation”
Col 1:18 And He is the Head of the body, the church, who is the Beginning, the First-born from the dead, that He may be pre-eminent in all things.
This shows that Jesus was not only the First Born Son of God, but He was the First Born of the Kingdom of God. It doesn't means He was born before anyone else in the natural sense of the word.
As for your second comment, I too wonder if He could have sinned because of this Scripture.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all fullness should dwell.That doesn't mean He wasn't tempted, because we know He was, but He's the only person ever to live that never sinned. The fullness of God dwelling in Him would have certainly been a factor.
Oxy Do you know what preeminence means? It means first in all. It means to be above and before all others.
Since the Father always existed we could not be talking about the Father here lets just take that out of the way.
Then Jesus was first in being the first CREATION OF ALL., THEN HE WAS FIRST TO BE RESURRECTED AND HIS CHURCH IS ALSO FIRST OF THE NEW KINGDOM OF GOD. SO IN ALL HE WILL HAVE PREEMINECE.
WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO INTERPETE THAT AWAY? IT MAKES NO NENSE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.Peace and Love Mrs.
The whole of creation is about one thing only. That God could be blessed with the blessing He gave Abraham ie, that He could be the Father of many. Prior to Jesus dying on the cross there was no salvation. Jesus was the first born to the Father. That's what the whole of creation and life is all about. Of course it makes sense! Jesus was the first of the living, as apposed to those dead in their transgessions as is/was the state of mankind who do not know Jesus.
Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,18:37) The whole of creation is about one thing only. That God could be blessed with the blessing He gave Abraham ie, that He could be the Father of many. Prior to Jesus dying on the cross there was no salvation. Jesus was the first born to the Father. That's what the whole of creation and life is all about. Of course it makes sense! Jesus was the first of the living, as apposed to those dead in their transgessions as is/was the state of mankind who do not know Jesus.
You don't get. First of all creation, tell me how else can you see that, you are blind, and who is blinding you if you say you have God's Holy Spirit. I am done if you can't get it, you can't get.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote I have only one issue with this. If ALL THINGS were made by him, how could He be made with out himself? Who said he was without himself? He existed with God. The word “he” indicates a person. It's amazing how easy it is to overlook the rudiments of language.
The first chapter of John does not say Christ made all things by himself alone. It says without him was not any made that was made. That is, the Father involved Christ in all of creation. Indeed, all things were made by him and for him. Jesus said he could nothing by himself, but only by the Father and the authority he received from his Father.
Jesus gives us many parables regarding the Kingdom of God. In many of these parables including the Goodman of the House, the Vineyard and the Husbandman, the Talents, and others, he tells us that God entrusts his servants with certain tasks and then returns to judge. Those servants that are faithful are greatly rewarded. Those who are not receive otherwise.
Jesus says that this is how the kingdom of God works. Jesus said he was with the Father before coming to earth. He said he came not of his own will, but the will of the Father. The task of Christ was to complete the work of salvation for all who believe in him. Christ completed his task and was highly exalted by God because of his faithfulness.
Jesus said that the Kingdom of God was like unto all these parables, not the law of Moses, not before the Flood, not before Christ came, but the eternal truths of the Kingdom of God.
When these parables are viewed in light of God's work in Christ, what is seen is that Christ was entrusted with power and authority because of his faithfulness. Hence, he was entrusted by the Father with the power to create just like the Father. Jesus said the Father loves him and shows him all things because he always does those things which please the Father.
Jesus never exploited the power that God gave him, but used it as God commanded him. For instance, you never see Christ teaching out of ego, only obedience.
Jesus taught that those that received him were not receiving him but him who sent him. Likewise, those who believe on him. So Jesus was more concerned with teaching us that he was from God and was sent to bring us to God.
Take Care
Steven
Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 20 2007,21:58) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,18:37) The whole of creation is about one thing only. That God could be blessed with the blessing He gave Abraham ie, that He could be the Father of many. Prior to Jesus dying on the cross there was no salvation. Jesus was the first born to the Father. That's what the whole of creation and life is all about. Of course it makes sense! Jesus was the first of the living, as apposed to those dead in their transgessions as is/was the state of mankind who do not know Jesus.
You don't get. First of all creation, tell me how else can you see that, you are blind, and who is blinding you if you say you have God's Holy Spirit. I am done if you can't get it, you can't get.Peace and Love Mrs.
I don't get it? lol, okQuote In the beginning there was no Son. There was God almighty, The Spirit of God and the Word of God. The three were one. Christ was in the beginning with God. God created all things by Christ. Jesus said “I am the beginning and the end, the alpha and the omega.”
Jesus said he was with the Father before the foundation of the world.
Since God is eternal he has no beginning. Hence, when God says in the beginning he is referring to a specific point in time that is revealed to us as the beginning of our age. Jesus was with God before the beginning of our age or as he says, before the world was.
Steven
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Dec. 21 2007,09:44) Quote In the beginning there was no Son. There was God almighty, The Spirit of God and the Word of God. The three were one. Christ was in the beginning with God. God created all things by Christ. Jesus said “I am the beginning and the end, the alpha and the omega.”
Jesus said he was with the Father before the foundation of the world.
Since God is eternal he has no beginning. Hence, when God says in the beginning he is referring to a specific point in time that is revealed to us as the beginning of our age. Jesus was with God before the beginning of our age or as he says, before the world was.
Steven
Steve You got it.Peace and Love Mrs.
The argument of preexsistance is eally not as important as I first believed. If Jesus did prexist that does not prove deity. There are those that believe that all of us were alive with God befoe our birth on the Earth.Jesse Duplantis (A well know minister) says he saw millions of souls in a vision waiting to be born.
Another question arises from the scripture tha says when a person dies his spirit goes BACK to God. Did it start with God.What is the Spirit is it the same as our soul? I find no clear dscription in scripture.Hi martian,
There is a difference.
Heb 4.12
The soul goes to Hades[Lk16] or for those in Christ the mansions of Christ[Jn14]Quote The argument of preexsistance is eally not as important as I first believed. If Jesus did prexist that does not prove deity. Martian;
You're partially correct. Just because a person was with God before the world began would not in and of itself constitute deity. But the scripture does not just say that Christ was with God, it says that Christ was the Light that lighteth every man that comes into the world.
Paul even says that all things are held together by the power of Christ. Christ pre-existence is not to be taken lightly, Christ was emphatic about it. Whenever he was asked where he was from he said from heaven. Jesus never referred to his virgin birth as his origin.
John the Baptist gives his summary and says he is from above and is above all for the Father loveth the Son and hath given all things into his hand.
God the Father deified Christ, “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne oh God.”
Three times in the New Testament, the Father spoke audibly from heaven, “This is my Son…”
I get chills up and down my spine just thinking about what it must have like to witness hearing the Father himself speak those words.
Take Care
Steven
Nick….> deity was not in deity, Deity was in a man the man's name was Jesus and the Deity in Him was the Father. Jesus fully explains this, just read what He said and believe it. People who Say Jesus Himself was the Deity are denying the Father who was the one doing the works. ….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 22 2007,10:29) Nick….> deity was not in deity, Deity was in a man the man's name was Jesus and the Deity in Him was the Father. Jesus fully explains this, just read what He said and believe it. People who Say Jesus Himself was the Deity are denying the Father who was the one doing the works. ….gene
Exactly right.Quote (martian @ Dec. 22 2007,13:39) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 22 2007,10:29) Nick….> deity was not in deity, Deity was in a man the man's name was Jesus and the Deity in Him was the Father. Jesus fully explains this, just read what He said and believe it. People who Say Jesus Himself was the Deity are denying the Father who was the one doing the works. ….gene
Exactly right.
MartianBut if Jesus had Deity in him then that would give him an advantage over us.
So are you saying God (Deity) dwells in us?
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