- This topic has 85 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 3 months ago by
.
- Posts
The identity of Jesus: divine and only begotten Son of God
His nature, his essence: like that of God His FatherHi Berean,
Of course. Now isn’t that much simpler?
Carmel good post to t8 about Jesus bringing his children that he has been given!
Berean, good post to Edj, yes the Father calls his son God and even credits him as Jehovah.
Keep up the good work, LU
Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
[13] And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
[14] And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.JESUS IS EMMANUEL ….GOD WITH US
Hi Berean,
Yes Jesus is “God with us” as he is God’s SERVANT, His messenger, he does all of God’s commands. His words and his works ARE NOT HIS but ARE our One God the Father’s.
Hi Jodi
Back on topic
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6]Back on topic
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Who, being in the form of God,……………………………and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Jesus before putting on human nature was God and form of God, the image of the living God and he took on himself the form of a servant by being made similar to men;
It’s the first step
Hi Berean,
YOU: Who, being in the form of God,……………………………and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
JESUS BEFORE PUTTING ON HUMAN NATURE WAS GOD AND FORM OF GOD, THE IMAGE OF THE LIVING GOD AND HE TOOK ON HIMSELF THE FORM OF A SERVANT BY BEING MADE SIMILAR TO MEN;
ME: Paul is talking about the MIND of Christ. I equate Christ with the man anointed Chrio (to anoint) thus made into the Christos (anointed).
Jesus speaks of the Spirit coming upon him and says it was his anointing for the purpose to be sent out into the world to do God’s works and speak God’s words. John 3 tells us that he received the Spirit not by measure. Upon Jesus’s anointing he could perform all manner of signs and miracles. THIS CHRIST is he who was in the form of God, but he took upon himself to be God’s servant, not using any of the powers bestowed upon him to serve his own will.
As said, you directly change the identity of WHO and what point in time thus that the passage is directly speaking of.
Jesus who was anointed with the full measure of the Spirit of God was thus most certainly in the form of God, why Paul says he is speaking OF CHRIST and his MIND.
What it must have felt like to have God’s full Spirit upon you but still feel your weak flesh and keep yourself from vainglory or serving yourself with all that power, especially as you face going without food for 40 days and going to be persecuted, spit at, beaten, and nailed to a cross. How humbling it must have been for Christ to be a man who knew no sin be an object for people to ridicule and mock, as he was numbered with transgressors.
Berean, Paul’s message is for those who received the Spirit made into apostles, prophets, healers..etc to be like minded with Jesus the Christ, where with their bestowed powers of the Spirit they were to be like him, humble servants not seeking vain glory but doing all things for the love of their brethren as Jesus Christ loved his brethren. Jesus asked them to be like minded with him, ready to be faithful through persecution, face tribulation unto death.
By your understanding Paul’s message would be that we need to be like minded with the God Jesus in heaven. How does that play out in your mind exactly?
By your understanding the God Jesus found himself contemplating his own existence, that’s rather odd for a God to do so don’t you think?
If he is God in heaven, why is he in the “form of God” and not God?
Jodi
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.…and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
The Word
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
NOT BY IT …… BUT BY HIM
and WITHOUT HIM(The WORD) was NOT any thing made that was made.
THE “HIM ” is a person, not other thing…..
God,……………… hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
God bless
Hi Berean,
By your understanding Paul’s message would be that we need to be like minded with the God Jesus in heaven. How does that play out in your mind exactly?
By your understanding the God Jesus found himself contemplating his own existence, that’s rather odd for a God to do so don’t you think?
If he is God in heaven, why is he in the “form of God” and not God?
Hi Berean,
Acts 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
THAT WORD,
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
THAT WORD MADE TRUE IN THE FLESH,
Mark 1: 1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;…10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, WHEN there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Berean the clear truth is right before your EYES!
John 14 is YHVH’s word from Isaiah 11, 42, 45, and 61 made true in the flesh of Jesus. Recall how in Isaiah 42 YHVH said that He would not give His glory to any other, He was speaking unto the son of Jesse whom He promised to anoint, whom He promised to raise up in righteousness, whom He promised to direct all His ways.
Jesus was begotten by God of the fullness of the Spirit at the river Jordan filled with grace and truth as the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of YHVH came upon him. Jesus received honor and glory at that moment, he had been begotten of God’s Spirit at that moment and YHVH called him His Son at that moment, and after he was sent into the wilderness being led by the Spirit he came out of the wilderness filled with the power of God to be SENT out into the world where people would behold his glory as he preached God’s word and performed signs, miracles, and wonders through that Spirit that was upon him.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
[9] For in HIM dwelleth all the FULNESS of the Godhead bodily.….the FULNESS of the Godhead bodily.
THIS MEANS THAT CHRIST HAS THE DIVINE NATURE IN A HUMAN BODY
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
[17] And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.Hi Berean,
Titus 1: 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
1 John 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
Eternal life was God’s WORD that was WITH Him before the world began.
That eternal life was manifested to us when people witnessed the man Jesus raised first among the dead having received that eternal life.
2 Timothy 2: 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Believing that Jesus was a man whom God raised from the dead gives us hope to our own resurrection from the dead.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
The anointed Jesus who received the fullness of the Spirit, said to have been raised up in righteousness to deliver captives having God direct all His ways, came in the flesh and that flesh profits nothing it was the Spirit of God dwelling in him that brought forth his resurrection to life, because the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Because he was obedient with all that God commanded, even being obedient going to the cross where he is said to have been perfected, God could not hold him to the penalty of sin.
Berean,
In the beginning was the WORD (eternal life), and that WORD (eternal life) was with God from the beginning, and that WORD (eternal life) was God, for God’s Spirit is LIFE because of righteousness. He (Jesus the anointed with the fullness of the Spirit) was likewise the WORD of God that was WITH God from the beginning.
God manifested the word of eternal life to us through Jesus Christ, Jesus preached it he said that we must be born again of the Spirit, he preached the word that we would follow him in the NEW BIRTH, and God manifested the word of eternal life when He raised the son of David from the dead. His resurrection is our resurrection. All things that God said that He made alone by Himself He did so by reason of and for the man who shed his blood and became the firstborn of many brethren.
Hi Berean,
YES IN CHRIST did God dwell in FULLNESS. As John 3 tells you he received the Spirit not by measure.
Let’s put a few simple things together.
In Luke 4 the word of God from Isaiah 11, 42, 45, and 61 is declared as true in a man of flesh, Jesus has the Spirit upon him because he has been anointed to be SENT out to preach God’s word.
In John 3 we are told he whom God SENT preaches the word of God because he received God’s Spirit not by measure.
In him, CHRIST dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead, and we are promised to be joint heirs with Christ, being heirs of God. God is to be ALL IN ALL.
Christ equates to the anointed Jesus, in the anointed Jesus dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead, it descended upon him like a dove, and likewise he received it according to a promise when he was raised from the dead.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Matthew 20:23 And he saith unto them,Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Ephes 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.
1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming….
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
…24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Berean, Christ equates to the son of David who is God’s Son according to God’s anointing Spirit, and he is going to sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh when he returns. God is ALL in him, all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in him, and at his return those who are his are promised to likewise have the fullness of the Godhead dwell in them.
Hi Berean,
You say that Jesus was God in heaven who existed in the form of God but then emptied himself and became in the likeness of man.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
So to you this Christ represents God before he came to earth and I’d imagine after he had ascended to heaven, but not when he was on earth as he had emptied himself of being in the form of God?
Hi Berean,
Could you please address this,
By your understanding Paul’s message would be that we need to be like minded with the God Jesus in heaven. How does that play out in your mind exactly?
By your understanding the God Jesus found himself contemplating his own existence, that’s rather odd for a God to do so don’t you think?
If he is God in heaven, why is he in the “form of God” and not God?
Hi Jodi,
YOU: 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
So to you this Christ represents God before he came to earth and I’d imagine after he had ascended to heaven, but not when he was on earth as he had emptied himself of being in the form of God?
John3:12If I have spoken to you earthly things, and you believe not: how will you believe, if I shall speak to you heavenly things?
(LIKE FOR INSTANCE:)
13And no man hath ascended into heaven, (ATTENTION JODI)
but he (who WAS IN FLESH BEFORE THE WORLD WAS) that descended from heaven,
the Son of man (ALREADY IN FLESH BEFORE THE WORLD WAS )
who is (EVEN RIGHT NOW ALSO IN FLESH) in heaven.
Philippians 2:5For let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:(BEFORE THE WORLD WAS, HIDDEN FROM THE HEAVENLY REALMS IN THE PROBATION PERIOD BEFORE THE REBEL)
6Who being in the form of God, (ALREADY IN THE FLESH) thought it not robbery to be equal with God:( PHYSICALLY GOD, THE EMBODIMENT OF GOD) 7But emptied himself, ( FROM HIS GLORY OF JESUS CHRIST, FOR ALL THE LOST IN ORDER TO REVEAL HIMSELF, AS THE TRUTH, AND ETERNAL LIFE) taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. 8He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross. 9For which cause, God also hath exalted him and hath given him a name which is above all names: 10That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth: 11And that every tongue should confess that
the Lord Jesus Christ
IS IN THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.
More scripture:
John6:62 If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? (IN FLESH BEFORE THE WORLD WAS)
John17:24 Father, I will that where I am,( WITH YOU IN FLESH EVEN BEFORE THE WORLD WAS)
they also whom thou hast given me may be with me:
that they may see my glory which thou hast given me,(IN FLESH BEFORE THE WORLD WAS)
because thou hast loved me (AS GOD’S FLESH EMBODIMENT)
before the creation of the world.
John17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh,(before the world was, as God’s FLESH embodiment)
that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
John17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, (IN FLESH ALSO ON EARTH) with the glory which I had,
( EMBODIED IN FLESH) before the world was, with thee.(A SPIRIT IN ME)
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel…..when Jesus decended into the Grave, he did after asend where he was before, right on this earth , being raised from the grave back to life again. And they did see him again after God raised him. Saying that he was alive in heaven befor he ever existed and the returned to heaven where he existed in the past is a Lie.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Saying that he was alive in heaven befor he ever existed and the returned to heaven where he existed in the past is a Lie.
Gene,
Your own bible says “the spirit of Christ” existed before Jesus was born., so how can you say that?
“Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently,
who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what,
or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.” (1 Peter 1:10-11)“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever:
and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” (John 6:51)Hi Ed J,
I only see in scripture there being 2 verses that contain the words “the Spirit of Christ”.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1 Peter 1:10-11 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently,
who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what,
or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
WHEN IT testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.”To be anointed is to be of God’s Spirit having it dwell in you, thus the Spirit of Christ is God’s Spirit.
God’s Spirit as was promised came to dwell in Jesus making him the Anointed One. Prior, that same Spirit of God was in them, where that Spirit of God did testify unto them the future suffering of the Anointed One and the glory that should follow.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
