Perspectives on key doctrines.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,12:10)

Hi not3, Seek ye first is a command. He gave many more

But only two that really counted.

[seekingtruth]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 24 2009,02:32)

Hi Seekingtruth, Thanks for your reply.  It is interesting how similarly I see those things too. Hmmm!  So would you mind telling me some of the details of your “revelation.”  I had a timely whisper in my ear once and it changed my understanding or should I say, it gave me understanding of something I was searching for. I too was a trinitarian for many years-34 years when I took a serious look at the doctrine.  I am still going to a trinitarian church basically because my husband is still a trinitarian.  Tonight I am planning on attending their “Missions Conference” and the topic is on the “Jesus of the cults.”  So, that should be interesting when I think that the Jesus of the trinity doctrine is not the real deal.  I believe He had a beginning by birth of God and not created by God and not always existent.  I wonder if the speaker will have a category for the Jesus that I understand? God bless, Kathi

Kathi,
I've never told any one this much of the story but In the case of this revelation I had been studying for a few days in a row trying to learn more of God (I was on vacation at Disney World) and I was meditating on the word when I had a “revelation”. During that period of time I could see how many truths weaved together and everything seemed so obvious I was astonished that I hadn't seen it all before. But as the vision,… dream…, revelation…? faded, I returned to my normal mode of mostly confused but with this one new understanding still intact. Believe me I know how it sounds but its the best I can do to describe it.

I then struggled for many months at this new “understanding” as it flew in the face of what I had been taught and believed for 25 years but with the memory of how I gotten the understanding and the harmony it bought, I finally embraced it.

As to your conference, I have taken a page from Paul who instead of attacking beliefs directly, he used an “idol to an unknown god”, as a path to present a more accurate understanding of the true God.

Wm

[NickHassan]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 24 2009,12:14)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,12:10) Hi not3, Seek ye first is a command. He gave many more But only two that really counted.

Hi not3,
If he said this is the FIRST thing we should do should we argue?

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,12:26)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 24 2009,12:14) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,12:10) Hi not3, Seek ye first is a command. He gave many more But only two that really counted. Hi not3, If he said this is the FIRST thing we should do should we argue?

You're kidding, right?

You are the King of the argument!!

Hey, I'm just calling it as I read it. Jesus only gave a couple commands. They're important if you want to go by what is written. He thought the two commands that he gave were so important, that you could hang'em all on them!! In other words, if we didn't get anything else…..get this!!!

Love God.
Love People.

You're golden!

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
“SEEK YE FIRST the kingdom
and everything else will be added to you”

Do we not want the rest?
They are added to us.

[Lightenup]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 23 2009,20:25)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 24 2009,02:32) Hi Seekingtruth, Thanks for your reply.  It is interesting how similarly I see those things too. Hmmm!  So would you mind telling me some of the details of your “revelation.”  I had a timely whisper in my ear once and it changed my understanding or should I say, it gave me understanding of something I was searching for. I too was a trinitarian for many years-34 years when I took a serious look at the doctrine.  I am still going to a trinitarian church basically because my husband is still a trinitarian.  Tonight I am planning on attending their “Missions Conference” and the topic is on the “Jesus of the cults.”  So, that should be interesting when I think that the Jesus of the trinity doctrine is not the real deal.  I believe He had a beginning by birth of God and not created by God and not always existent.  I wonder if the speaker will have a category for the Jesus that I understand? God bless, Kathi Kathi, I've never told any one this much of the story but In the case of this revelation I had been studying for a few days in a row trying to learn more of God (I was on vacation at Disney World) and I was meditating on the word when I had a “revelation”. During that period of time I could see how many truths weaved together and everything seemed so obvious I was astonished that I hadn't seen it all before. But as the vision,… dream…, revelation…? faded, I returned to my normal mode of mostly confused but with this one new understanding still intact. Believe me I know how it sounds but its the best I can do to describe it. I then struggled for many months at this new “understanding” as it flew in the face of what I had been taught and believed for 25 years but with the memory of how I gotten the understanding and the harmony it bought, I finally embraced it. As to your conference, I have taken a page from Paul who instead of attacking beliefs directly, he used an “idol to an unknown god”, as a path to present a more accurate understanding of the true God. Wm

Hi Wm,
Thanks for the info. I wish that I could know more about your revelation. I appreciate that you shared what you did share. How is sharing this with family/friends going for you?

Have you read what I have said about the light of day one?

Kathi

[NickHassan]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 24 2009,12:31)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,12:26) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 24 2009,12:14) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,12:10) Hi not3, Seek ye first is a command. He gave many more But only two that really counted. Hi not3, If he said this is the FIRST thing we should do should we argue? You're kidding, right? You are the King of the argument!! Hey, I'm just calling it as I read it.  Jesus only gave a couple commands.  They're important if you want to go by what is written.  He thought the two commands that he gave were so important, that you could hang'em all on them!!  In other words, if we didn't get anything else…..get this!!!   Love God. Love People. You're golden!

Hi not3,
You quote Mt 22
Please note the first line.
It is a question about the jewish OT Law

“36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

We are not Jews and these are not the commandments of Jesus.

He said we should seek first the kingdom as that is the only way for us gentiles

[Lightenup]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 23 2009,19:56)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 24 2009,09:53) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 23 2009,17:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,08:09) Hi not3, Is there more important advice given by Jesus? Yes!  Love your neighbor. How can you love your neighbor when you don't even believe that a co-believer, like Keith, is your brother? Hi Dear Mandy, I have a question for you…have you stopped speaking to your neighbor also?  I saw on another thread that you have stopped speaking to God.  Just curious. Yes, it is important to love our neighbor but even more important to love God with all our heart, and with all our soul, and with all our heart, and with all our mind.  Should we love our neighbor more than God?  Should we speak to our neighbor but not speak to God? Mark 12:28-32 28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;  30 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'  31 “The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these.” NASU Love, Kathi Sister, Oh, wait.  You don't want me to call you “sister”.  I forgot, my apologies.  I have to remember that you and Nick have qualifications that I must meet first, before I can be considered your family in Christ.  My bad. You have jumped head-first into judgement upon me, haven't you?  That's fine, if you've nothing better add.   I never implied that I have stopped loving God, did I?  I only said that I have stopped talking to him.  Perhaps I am waiting for direction that isn't coming?  Perhaps I cannot hear him for some reason?  Perhaps a million things other than I do not love him.  But go ahead and presume the worst. Oh, Vanity!  We think we know another man's heart – it's amazing to me! You can keep your scriptures.  Show me love instead!

Mandy,
Good grief girl. Settle down! I just wondered how someone can speak to others about loving their neighbor on one thread and boast that they are not talking to God anymore on another thread. It doesn't seem to line up. When you ask whether God is sulking because you aren't speaking to Him anymore…it sounds like you are mocking God. Maybe you didn't mean to come across like that but if you did I really think that you should rethink that direction.

BTW I was challenging you, not judging you. I gave you an opportunity to clarify…that's all. You seem to jump all over me when I challenge you. Why is that? Do you not want to be challenged? Do you just want agreeable posts. Does love not challenge?

[seekingtruth]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 24 2009,09:12)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 23 2009,20:25) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 24 2009,02:32) Hi Seekingtruth, Thanks for your reply.  It is interesting how similarly I see those things too. Hmmm!  So would you mind telling me some of the details of your “revelation.”  I had a timely whisper in my ear once and it changed my understanding or should I say, it gave me understanding of something I was searching for. I too was a trinitarian for many years-34 years when I took a serious look at the doctrine.  I am still going to a trinitarian church basically because my husband is still a trinitarian.  Tonight I am planning on attending their “Missions Conference” and the topic is on the “Jesus of the cults.”  So, that should be interesting when I think that the Jesus of the trinity doctrine is not the real deal.  I believe He had a beginning by birth of God and not created by God and not always existent.  I wonder if the speaker will have a category for the Jesus that I understand? God bless, Kathi Kathi, I've never told any one this much of the story but In the case of this revelation I had been studying for a few days in a row trying to learn more of God (I was on vacation at Disney World) and I was meditating on the word when I had a “revelation”. During that period of time I could see how many truths weaved together and everything seemed so obvious I was astonished that I hadn't seen it all before. But as the vision,… dream…, revelation…? faded, I returned to my normal mode of mostly confused but with this one new understanding still intact. Believe me I know how it sounds but its the best I can do to describe it. I then struggled for many months at this new “understanding” as it flew in the face of what I had been taught and believed for 25 years but with the memory of how I gotten the understanding and the harmony it bought, I finally embraced it. As to your conference, I have taken a page from Paul who instead of attacking beliefs directly, he used an “idol to an unknown god”, as a path to present a more accurate understanding of the true God. Wm Hi Wm, Thanks for the info.  I wish that I could know more about your revelation.  I appreciate that you shared what you did share.  How is sharing this with family/friends going for you?   Have you read what I have said about the light of day one? Kathi

Kathi,
I'm with you, I wish I understood more about what it was and how to make it happen more often. I can't begin to tell you what it was like seeing it all fit together it was such a joy beyond description, perhaps it was a taste of the heavenly.

As to how it is going with friends/family… of the ones I've told so far, most just give me that “look” and “oh that's nice” then change the subject. I'm so bad at public speaking (you just thought my writing was bad) I have been putting all that I believe that God has shown me into a letter that I then plan on sharing with friends/family/church when complete… that should be interesting. Fortunately my wife has been very supportive and patient and listens to me prattle on with true interest.

I have not read your post about day one could you supply a link?

May the Lord Bless you – Wm

[Not3in1]

Kathi,

Quote

I just wondered how someone can speak to others about loving their neighbor on one thread and boast that they are not talking to God anymore on another thread.

I was boasting?  
Hardly.

Quote

When you ask whether God is sulking because you aren't speaking to Him anymore…it sounds like you are mocking God.

Do people not sulk when they give the silent treatment?
All I was saying is that since I stopped talking……I don't hear anything.
Makes me wonder.
You could have rather encouraged me to listen more.  Or ways in which I could perhaps understand the situation that I was in.  Maybe a few verses to draw me back into loving communication?  But nah…….you wanted to “challenge” me.  Instead you quoted scriptures and pointed to the fact that I must not love God if I can't hear him?  Good call.

Quote

BTW I was challenging you, not judging you.

Yes, of course it sounds much better when you put it that way.
Spare me.

Quote

You seem to jump all over me when I challenge you.  Why is that?

Because of this next quote…

Quote

Do you not want to be challenged?  Do you just want agreeable posts.

You're condescending, to say the least.
You've been this way with me on several occassions.
I don't care for people who do this.

Quote

I just wondered how someone can speak to others about loving their neighbor on one thread and boast that they are not talking to God anymore on another thread.

Ya, that sounds like challenging and encouragement to me, doesn't it you?  Not.
It sounds like you saw an opportunity to chastise me, and you took it.

I think you have lofty doctrinal ideas, to be perfectly honest.  I think you have spun a doctrine around a whisper that you think was God telling you something!  Something that no one else has heard before – no one else truly sees in scripture – and everyone else is wrong and you are right.  Sure, you have your scriptures, but does that mean anything?  Anyone can create any doctrine….just look at all the brands of Christianity that can point to the bible as their foundation.

Some of the exchanges you and I have had have been very nice.  But mostly I find that you are very selective in your idea of what is truth and what isn't.  And who is in line with this truth, and who is not.  Who you will consider a true Christian, and who doesn't cut the mustard.  I don't have a lot of tolerance for Christians like that.  And perhaps you can't tolerate me?  Let's call it even, shall we?

Have a good night,
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Is God tolerant of the myriad adaptations of truth?
Should we accept them all?
Are there no standards?

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,17:50)

Hi not3, Is God tolerant of the myriad adaptations of truth? Should we accept them all? Are there no standards?

I hear what you're saying, Nick.

But if the bible is so vague and open to so many interpretations, what choice do we have? I suppose you can cling to your version of the truth, but it would be only that – a version of the truth.

Should we send brother's and sister's into exile because they don't agree with a “version” of the truth? I dunno.

[GeneBalthrop]

Mandy………..Good Point Sis. How should our attitude be toward all, even if they or we, don't understand everything clearly.

love and peace to you and yours……………………………..gene

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
The Spirit wrote it through men.
Seek the Spirit[Lk11]

[Lightenup]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 23 2009,23:30)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 24 2009,09:12) Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 23 2009,20:25) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 24 2009,02:32) Hi Seekingtruth, Thanks for your reply.  It is interesting how similarly I see those things too. Hmmm!  So would you mind telling me some of the details of your “revelation.”  I had a timely whisper in my ear once and it changed my understanding or should I say, it gave me understanding of something I was searching for. I too was a trinitarian for many years-34 years when I took a serious look at the doctrine.  I am still going to a trinitarian church basically because my husband is still a trinitarian.  Tonight I am planning on attending their “Missions Conference” and the topic is on the “Jesus of the cults.”  So, that should be interesting when I think that the Jesus of the trinity doctrine is not the real deal.  I believe He had a beginning by birth of God and not created by God and not always existent.  I wonder if the speaker will have a category for the Jesus that I understand? God bless, Kathi Kathi, I've never told any one this much of the story but In the case of this revelation I had been studying for a few days in a row trying to learn more of God (I was on vacation at Disney World) and I was meditating on the word when I had a “revelation”. During that period of time I could see how many truths weaved together and everything seemed so obvious I was astonished that I hadn't seen it all before. But as the vision,… dream…, revelation…? faded, I returned to my normal mode of mostly confused but with this one new understanding still intact. Believe me I know how it sounds but its the best I can do to describe it. I then struggled for many months at this new “understanding” as it flew in the face of what I had been taught and believed for 25 years but with the memory of how I gotten the understanding and the harmony it bought, I finally embraced it. As to your conference, I have taken a page from Paul who instead of attacking beliefs directly, he used an “idol to an unknown god”, as a path to present a more accurate understanding of the true God. Wm Hi Wm, Thanks for the info.  I wish that I could know more about your revelation.  I appreciate that you shared what you did share.  How is sharing this with family/friends going for you?   Have you read what I have said about the light of day one? Kathi Kathi, I'm with you, I wish I understood more about what it was and how to make it happen more often. I can't begin to tell you what it was like seeing it all fit together it was such a joy beyond description, perhaps it was a taste of the heavenly. As to how it is going with friends/family… of the ones I've told so far, most just give me that “look” and “oh that's nice” then change the subject. I'm so bad at public speaking (you just thought my writing was bad) I have been putting all that I believe that God has shown me into a letter that I then plan on sharing with friends/family/church when complete… that should be interesting. Fortunately my wife has been very supportive and patient and listens to me prattle on with true interest. I have not read your post about day one could you supply a link? May the Lord Bless you – Wm

Hi Wm,
Thanks again. You have been a much needed encouragement from the Lord today and a breath of fresh air. The link to my post is here:

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….9;st=30

Someday, I would really like to read your letter. Beware that when you speak up about this that the adversary will seek to devour you through others especially those claiming to be Christians and can at times greatly discourage you others will love you and encourage you. A forgiving heart and the approach that you have shared regarding eating meat when others don't agree with eating meat will carry you through.

We can't deny when God highlights something for us when it brings greater understanding…we can't go back to putting old wine in a new wine skin so to speak. I totally understand!

I am thrilled that your wife is understanding and supportive for you.

I hope to hear from you regarding the post that I have linked to.

Thanks again for your encouragement!
Have a great day,
Kathi

[NickHassan]

Hi lU,
So God told you
“You are the light of the world”.
which is reflected in scripture.

So why would you use this to extrapolate into other doctrinal ideas?

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,14:37)

Hi lU, So God told you “You are the light of the world”. which is reflected in scripture. So why would you use this to extrapolate into other doctrinal ideas?

Hi Nick,
Thanks for your question.
I suppose that you would of had to have been there to understand. You would have had to walked through what I walked through during the month before I heard the whisper in my ear. Then you would of had to realize the exact timing that I heard the whisper and what was happening at the moment. I am not just coming to an understanding based on the words “You are the light of the world.” That was just the exclamation point, the finish of what I was searching for and yet the start of the test of what I found.

The understanding that the Holy Spirit developed within me during that month brought simplicity and harmony to my understanding of God. It was a blessing to me and my walk.

LU

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
But the word you had from God was nothing to do with these other revelations/

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,18:46)

Hi LU, But the word you had from God was nothing to do with these other revelations/

Hi Nick,
The firstborn and day one and light of the world all tie together.

LU

[seekingtruth]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 24 2009,13:14)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 23 2009,23:30) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 24 2009,09:12) Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 23 2009,20:25) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 24 2009,02:32) Hi Seekingtruth, Thanks for your reply.  It is interesting how similarly I see those things too. Hmmm!  So would you mind telling me some of the details of your “revelation.”  I had a timely whisper in my ear once and it changed my understanding or should I say, it gave me understanding of something I was searching for. I too was a trinitarian for many years-34 years when I took a serious look at the doctrine.  I am still going to a trinitarian church basically because my husband is still a trinitarian.  Tonight I am planning on attending their “Missions Conference” and the topic is on the “Jesus of the cults.”  So, that should be interesting when I think that the Jesus of the trinity doctrine is not the real deal.  I believe He had a beginning by birth of God and not created by God and not always existent.  I wonder if the speaker will have a category for the Jesus that I understand? God bless, Kathi Kathi, I've never told any one this much of the story but In the case of this revelation I had been studying for a few days in a row trying to learn more of God (I was on vacation at Disney World) and I was meditating on the word when I had a “revelation”. During that period of time I could see how many truths weaved together and everything seemed so obvious I was astonished that I hadn't seen it all before. But as the vision,… dream…, revelation…? faded, I returned to my normal mode of mostly confused but with this one new understanding still intact. Believe me I know how it sounds but its the best I can do to describe it. I then struggled for many months at this new “understanding” as it flew in the face of what I had been taught and believed for 25 years but with the memory of how I gotten the understanding and the harmony it bought, I finally embraced it. As to your conference, I have taken a page from Paul who instead of attacking beliefs directly, he used an “idol to an unknown god”, as a path to present a more accurate understanding of the true God. Wm Hi Wm, Thanks for the info.  I wish that I could know more about your revelation.  I appreciate that you shared what you did share.  How is sharing this with family/friends going for you?   Have you read what I have said about the light of day one? Kathi Kathi, I'm with you, I wish I understood more about what it was and how to make it happen more often. I can't begin to tell you what it was like seeing it all fit together it was such a joy beyond description, perhaps it was a taste of the heavenly. As to how it is going with friends/family… of the ones I've told so far, most just give me that “look” and “oh that's nice” then change the subject. I'm so bad at public speaking (you just thought my writing was bad) I have been putting all that I believe that God has shown me into a letter that I then plan on sharing with friends/family/church when complete… that should be interesting. Fortunately my wife has been very supportive and patient and listens to me prattle on with true interest. I have not read your post about day one could you supply a link? May the Lord Bless you – Wm Hi Wm, Thanks again.  You have been a much needed encouragement from the Lord today and a breath of fresh air.  The link to my post is here: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….9;st=30 Someday, I would really like to read your letter.  Beware that when you speak up about this that the adversary will seek to devour you through others especially those claiming to be Christians and can at times greatly discourage you others will love you and encourage you.  A forgiving heart and the approach that you have shared regarding eating meat when others don't agree with eating meat will carry you through. We can't deny when God highlights something for us when it brings greater understanding…we can't go back to putting old wine in a new wine skin so to speak.  I totally understand! I am thrilled that your wife is understanding and supportive for you. I hope to hear from you regarding the post that I have linked to. Thanks again for your encouragement! Have a great day, Kathi

Kathi's your referenced post copied below:

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2008,07:43)

Hello all, I have posted this in pre-existence but I think that it also belongs here: I grew up as a trinitarian and defended the doctrine when challenged.  Then one day I was challenged with the verse  Col 1:15-16 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. NASU I asked God to show me what that term meant “firstborn of all creation.” I surrendered my trinitarian claims to whatever God would show me and it was like I started to read the Bible all new with a different perspective.  Well, after about a month of searching scripture and looking for my answer I heard a voice speak in my left ear. Just before I heard that voice, I was reviewing with my son what happened on each day of creation because I was homeschooling him and the kindergarten curriculum was centered around the seven days of creation. I had just asked my son this question, “What happened on day one?”  My son responded by saying “God said let there be light” and that is when the voice spoke to me and said “You are the light of the world”. Now remember that I was meditating on what the “firstborn of all creation” meant for the past month and fervently, and excitedly reading scripture with a whole new perspective.  When I asked my son that question I was totally focused on his schooling.  I know that voice was not from me without a doubt.  Anyway, when I heard the voice say that I immediately thought of Jesus being the Light of the World and that “Let there be light” was God's birthing of His Son by His word as the begotten God.  So, I knew that I had to test that and I think about it everyday since.  I believe that the firstborn of all creation refers to the light of day one as the begotten God, the Radiant Son of God. Here are some verses about Jesus being the Light: John 1:1-10 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shine s in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 The Witness John There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. NASU Rev 21:22-24 23 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. NASU John 8:12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, ” I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.” NASU So, I remain amazed at the simplicity of all of this. For God's glory, K

Kathi,
First I apologize that I missed this and I'm only about 5 years late in responding. Next, are you still interested in further discussion?

Wm

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