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Nick………..the 144,000, are (ALL) the tribes of Israel, there is only 12,000 of those that will be Jews, the rest will come from the other tribes of Israel.
Joseph. …………….12,000
Manasseh…………..12,000
Benjamen……………12,000
Levi………………….12,000
Ruben……………….12,000
Naphtali……………..12,000
Simeon………………12,000
Issachar …………….12,000
Gad…………………..12,000
Judah…………………12,000
Aser…………………..12,000
Zebulun……………….12.000
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144,000There does seem to be a mistake thought in the translation though, the Tribe of Joseph would Normally consist of (Ephraim and Manasseh) and also notice that The tribe of DAN is not Shown. I believe where it say Manasseh should be (Dan) and Manasseh should be included with Joseph. Just my opinion, though. But the Point Nick is that the Jews are only 1/12 th of that number, no matter what they say. And as Georg brought out there also exist an unnumberial multitude there also. But these 144,000 Are at the core of the Throne and are filled with Eyes (spirits of GOD) in them and they go with Jesus where ever He goes.
What is interesting is the the four Beasts around the throne are the Standards of the four tribes, Dan, THE EAGLE, Ruben THE MAN, Judah, THE LION and EPHRAIM, THE OX. and the three wings on each total all twelve tribes their wings full of eyes (spirits) of GOD.
Peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
Gene
As nick brought up, the 144000 are mentioned in chapter 14 also, and it really is in that chapter that tells you who the 144000 are, or rather, will be.
Rev 14:1 ¶ And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.“Having the Fathers name written in their forehead”, is the clue. That of course is not meant literal, it means, they have received the Fathers name. Now think about that, when does a child, not being the fathers biological child, receive the fathers name? is it not when the father adopts the child? These 144000 are the adopted sons of God, a special group of sons. There is something else unique about them.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
What kind of virgins are they? what is meant by, not defiled with woman? You know that “woman” is also used symbolically to describe a church, right? so how can all of these 144000 not have defiled themselves with other churches? as you already have read in chapter 7, they are all Jews. All of these chosen ones have come out of obeying the Law of Moses, the old covenant, into following Jesus into the new Covenant; never had any contact with any other religion/church, that's why they are considered virgins.
Now look at this scripture.Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:…
These are the 144000 sitting on thrones, these are the “kings”, reigning with Christ; for a very special, and important reason.
Then it goes on,…and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
“AND” I saw the souls of them”, this is the great multitude referred back in chapter 7:9; they stand in front of the throne, they are the “priests”.
The fact that it says, “they did not worship the beast/emperor, neither the image/pope, shows that they were persecuted not only by the Romans, but by Antichrist too.
The four beasts by the throne, I thought they were representing the four land creations of God; Fowls, domestic beasts, wild beasts, and man.
Rev. 4:8 says, they “each” had six wings about him, don't really know what that means.
As far as the mistake you mentioned, I have to go along with Nick.Georg
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2010,12:42) Hi MB,
The 144,000 are mentioned twice in Revelation as being from the Jews. They are not spoken of in terms of rulership.Reigning with Christ is mentioned in several places incl 2 Tim2 and Rev 20 and more detail is given in Lk 19.12f[cfMt25] and there is no mention of the number being 144,000 in this context.
The JWS have spread some nonsense about this that has confused folk
Hi Nic,Right you are sir. I am one of the folk that was mislead.
Thanks,
mikeQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2010,04:42) G,
Mistake?
Your opinion does not outweigh what is written.
Nick………So lets look at what (IS) written then.Rev 7:4…> And I heard the number of them which were seald: and there were sealed a Hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the childern of Israel.
Rev 7:5…> Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve Thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:6…> Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:7….> Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjiamin were sealed twelve thousand.
Now there are anyone of you who can add this up , you will get the 144,000 thousand.
So who is not using scripture to support what he says, Me or you.
gene
i also agree with you on this about the 144000,but i would add that there are some of gentiles in there.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2010,11:49) gene i also agree with you on this about the 144000,but i would add that there are some of gentiles in there.
terrariccaNot in the 144000, v 9 speaks of another group of saints, they are for the most part gentiles.
Georg
To ALL….Mat 20:1…..> For the kingdom of Heaven is like unto a man that is a householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labors into his vineyard. 2..> And when he had agreed with the laborers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard..3..> And he went out about the third hour (9 am, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace. 4..> And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you, And they went their way. 5..> And again he went out about the sixth 12 am, and ninth hour 3 PM and did like wise. 6..> And about the eleventh hour 5 PM, he went out, and found others standing idle, and said unto them Why stand ye here all the day idle? .7..> And they said unto him Because no man hath hired us, He said unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye recieve. 8..> So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard said unto his steward, Call the laborers, and give the their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. 9..> and when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour 5PM, they recieved every man a penny. 10..> BUT WHEN THE FIRST CAME THEY SUPPOSED THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE RECIEVED MORE; AND THEY LIKEWISE RECIEVED EVERY MAN A PENNY. 11..> And when they had recieved they murmered against the goodman of the house 12…> Saying, these last have wrought but one hour, and you have made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. 13..>BUt he answered one of them, and said, Frinend, i do thee no wrong did not you agree with me for a penny? 14..> Take what is yours and go your way: I will give unto this last, even as unto you. 15…> is it not lawful for me to do what I WILL with mine own? Is thine eyve evil because I am good? 16….> So the last shall be first, and the first Last: because many are called , But FEW CHOSEN.
What do you all think about this, what does it mean for us? who exist at the LAST HOUR.
peace and love to you all……………gene
Hi GB,
The ignorant but kindly sheep found in the last judgement[mt25] after the millenium [rev20]equally enjoy all the eternal benefits that those found in the first resurrection?Nick
Your forgetting that those in the first resurrection will have a spirit body, those that come up later do not.
Georg
Nick…….Here is my take on this……….the orginal deciples wee called at first and they bore the Brunt of the trouble or labor and it cost them there lives to work in the kingdom of GOD they are those who bore the Heat of the day, and later others were added and some of them also gave up their lives for the kingdom of GOD, and as time went on the Labors did not have to face the real trials and testing as the first ones did, and finely it come down into our day When we have very little to endure as opposed to the first and others before Us. In fact this makes us feel in some way rather useless in what we have contributed for the advancement of the Kingdom of GOD. But None the Less WE will recieve the same rewards as they. Now it will be natural for the original apostles to see this as a inequality then being we did not have to endure as they did “the heat of the day” so to speak. But we will recieve the same pay as they are to recieve. On the surface this seem inequitable, but if you think about it , it is not because it destroys any boasting and causes us to realize Salvation is a GIFT of GOD and where does it say if the last were not called first as the original disciples, we would not have went through and endured the same things as they did. GOD is marvelous, how he keep the playing field even. We are those in the Last hour and have very little that can be done now, we can teach and preach without hardly any Church persecutions but our reward is no less then theirs, praise GOD. This is truly marvelous to us, 'O' the richness of GOD always having Love and equity for (ALL). We can never boast in our selves and at the same time neither can the First boast in themselves either. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………gene
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