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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2009,17:23) Quote (martian @ Dec. 09 2009,13:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 10 2009,04:49) Hi,
Many have opinions but scripture is truth[Jn17.17]
Truth can be proven by scriptural witnesses[2cor13.1]
Some much time is wasted trawling through opinion here.
But until the parties agree on a proper method to interpret scripture it will always be opinion making the scriptural witness void.
Even scriptures that seem to be clear in English may not truly represent the original text as it was intended in the Greek or Hebrew culture or language.
Most religious people are not willing to research to any depth beyond what seems to prove their doctrine.
MartianHow about studying Greek tenses, verbs, voice, moods, and basically the Greek and Hebrew grammer with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit?
You and Benner seem to reject that!
WJ
I do believe in being guided by the Holy spirit but not exclusively. I know for myself and I believe for others too, that what we think we might know by the breath of God is another spirit altogether. that is why we have a more sure word of prophecy and there needs to be rules to interpret that prophecy.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2009,17:23) Quote (martian @ Dec. 09 2009,13:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 10 2009,04:49) Hi,
Many have opinions but scripture is truth[Jn17.17]
Truth can be proven by scriptural witnesses[2cor13.1]
Some much time is wasted trawling through opinion here.
But until the parties agree on a proper method to interpret scripture it will always be opinion making the scriptural witness void.
Even scriptures that seem to be clear in English may not truly represent the original text as it was intended in the Greek or Hebrew culture or language.
Most religious people are not willing to research to any depth beyond what seems to prove their doctrine.
MartianHow about studying Greek tenses, verbs, voice, moods, and basically the Greek and Hebrew grammer with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit?
You and Benner seem to reject that!
WJ
One finale thought —
If you will remember I have in the past posted my understandings of hermaneutics. I listed the rules I attempt to follow.
In capitols at the bottom of the post I wrote be led by the spirit.
Being led by the breath of God is a given in any bible study, but the accuracy of those conclusions will be according to the accuracy of hearing from God and not our own imaginations or traditions.Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,10:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2009,17:23) Quote (martian @ Dec. 09 2009,13:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 10 2009,04:49) Hi,
Many have opinions but scripture is truth[Jn17.17]
Truth can be proven by scriptural witnesses[2cor13.1]
Some much time is wasted trawling through opinion here.
But until the parties agree on a proper method to interpret scripture it will always be opinion making the scriptural witness void.
Even scriptures that seem to be clear in English may not truly represent the original text as it was intended in the Greek or Hebrew culture or language.
Most religious people are not willing to research to any depth beyond what seems to prove their doctrine.
MartianHow about studying Greek tenses, verbs, voice, moods, and basically the Greek and Hebrew grammer with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit?
You and Benner seem to reject that!
WJ
One finale thought —
If you will remember I have in the past posted my understandings of hermaneutics. I listed the rules I attempt to follow.
In capitols at the bottom of the post I wrote be led by the spirit.
Being led by the breath of God is a given in any bible study, but the accuracy of those conclusions will be according to the accuracy of hearing from God and not our own imaginations or traditions.Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,10:53) If you will remember I have in the past posted my understandings of hermaneutics. I listed the rules I attempt to follow.
MartianAre not the rules that you follow made by you? In other words the rules themselves that were created may not be correct and lead to error.
For instance if your rules applied to a scripture brings you to an understanding or interpretation of that scripture that violates the Greek or Hebrew rules of grammar then your rules are flawed. Which is greater, your rules or the rules of Hebrew and Greek grammar?
Take the example of translating John 1:1 for instance…
What case, gender, and number is “Theos” in John 1:1? Why is it anarthrous?
How about parsing “en”, it’s found three times in the verse. It’s very important.
Whats its lexical form? Why is the imperfect tense important in the verse?
How does the imperfect tense relate to the prepositional phrase at the start of the verse?
Why is “arche” in dative case? Why does “pros” have grave accent?
Do you know these things? I am not a skilled Greek scholar either so I trust what the Translators have done and seek to learn Greek grammar.
If I am not mistaken your “rules” of interpreting scriptures never mentions anything about Greek or Hebrew rules of grammar!
If not should they not include them?
Should your rules supercede the Greek for instance in John chpater 6 where the meaning that Jesus came down from heaven cannot mean a thought or plan came down, but in fact the Greek dictates that he literally came down and that in the context he says he will literally ascend back to where he was before?
Should we follow your rule if it violates the true interpretation of the text? Or shouldn't we just throw away our manmade doctrines and accept the text for what it says?
WJ
To All……….If ones imaginations are being lead by GOD'S Spirit (intellect) it will guide you and (Reveal) to you His intents even if their are some scriptural discrepancies. If we read his words and take them in to us, His SPIRIT(Intellect) gives recognition of of TRUTH, because (IT) bothe accuses and defends US, it also teaches Us, “no you not you shall (ALL) be taught by GOD, said Jesus. I believe any do to understand the depth of that truth, and only lean on their own understanding, which is not necessarily wrong, the question is if that understanding is being guided by HOLY SPIRIT (Special Intellect) recieved from GOD or from their own Spirit (intellects). No one can condemn anyone, because if a person speaks from what he has then that is all he or she Has, it doesn't make them liars or deceivers either, they simple are playing with the hand they have been dealt. But debate is good in done in LOVE. WE are told to have salt in ourselves and also have Peace at the same time. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Dec. 10 2009,11:40) To All……….If ones imaginations are being lead by GOD'S Spirit (intellect) it will guide you and (Reveal) to you His intents even if their are some scriptural discrepancies.
GeneWhat does this mean? Does this mean that the Spirit may contradict the “Inspired” scriptures therefore it is okay to go by “What we think the Spirit is saying” over the scriptures?
Or is this just your way of saying the scriptures are corrupt?
Either way your statement would be self defeating because if the scriptures to you are corrupt then you take away any validity in quoting from them.
If you are saying that the Spirit may contradict the “inspired” scriptures then it just becomes a “whatever you think the Spirit says is okay” game and therefore have to say “I am right, and you are wrong”.
We must let the scriptures dictate doctrine to us and if you think they are corrupt, then you loose from the start!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2009,03:39) Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,10:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2009,17:23) Quote (martian @ Dec. 09 2009,13:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 10 2009,04:49) Hi,
Many have opinions but scripture is truth[Jn17.17]
Truth can be proven by scriptural witnesses[2cor13.1]
Some much time is wasted trawling through opinion here.
But until the parties agree on a proper method to interpret scripture it will always be opinion making the scriptural witness void.
Even scriptures that seem to be clear in English may not truly represent the original text as it was intended in the Greek or Hebrew culture or language.
Most religious people are not willing to research to any depth beyond what seems to prove their doctrine.
MartianHow about studying Greek tenses, verbs, voice, moods, and basically the Greek and Hebrew grammer with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit?
You and Benner seem to reject that!
WJ
One finale thought —
If you will remember I have in the past posted my understandings of hermaneutics. I listed the rules I attempt to follow.
In capitols at the bottom of the post I wrote be led by the spirit.
Being led by the breath of God is a given in any bible study, but the accuracy of those conclusions will be according to the accuracy of hearing from God and not our own imaginations or traditions.Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,10:53) If you will remember I have in the past posted my understandings of hermaneutics. I listed the rules I attempt to follow.
MartianAre not the rules that you follow made by you? In other words the rules themselves that were created may not be correct and lead to error.
For instance if your rules applied to a scripture brings you to an understanding or interpretation of that scripture that violates the Greek or Hebrew rules of grammar then your rules are flawed. Which is greater, your rules or the rules of Hebrew and Greek grammar?
Take the example of translating John 1:1 for instance…
What case, gender, and number is “Theos” in John 1:1? Why is it anarthrous?
How about parsing “en”, it’s found three times in the verse. It’s very important.
Whats its lexical form? Why is the imperfect tense important in the verse?
How does the imperfect tense relate to the prepositional phrase at the start of the verse?
Why is “arche” in dative case? Why does “pros” have grave accent?
Do you know these things? I am not a skilled Greek scholar either so I trust what the Translators have done and seek to learn Greek grammar.
If I am not mistaken your “rules” of interpreting scriptures never mentions anything about Greek or Hebrew rules of grammar!
If not should they not include them?
Should your rules supercede the Greek for instance in John chpater 6 where the meaning that Jesus came down from heaven cannot mean a thought or plan came down, but in fact the Greek dictates that he literally came down and that in the context he says he will literally ascend back to where he was before?
Should we follow your rule if it violates the true interpretation of the text? Or shouldn't we just throw away our manmade doctrines and accept the text for what it says?
WJ
And what text or copy of the text are you using?
And who did the interpretation and made the rules that you flaunt so much?
And whose understanding of Greek do you follow?All translation and even rules of translation are subject to error.
That is why I have over and over and over and over and over and over again said that a functional test of our conclusions is more definitive then OUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS.You conclusions lead nowhere and produce nothing. They have no fruit that moves us along the path of righteousness or makes Christ more of a viable example for us. THEREFORE no matter how many tenses you quote it is still wrong.
your Greek dissection of the verses cannot follow the intent of the author if it does not support the plan of God and certainly cannot be correct if it works against the plan of God as your does.Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,12:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2009,03:39) Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,10:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2009,17:23) Quote (martian @ Dec. 09 2009,13:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 10 2009,04:49) Hi,
Many have opinions but scripture is truth[Jn17.17]
Truth can be proven by scriptural witnesses[2cor13.1]
Some much time is wasted trawling through opinion here.
But until the parties agree on a proper method to interpret scripture it will always be opinion making the scriptural witness void.
Even scriptures that seem to be clear in English may not truly represent the original text as it was intended in the Greek or Hebrew culture or language.
Most religious people are not willing to research to any depth beyond what seems to prove their doctrine.
MartianHow about studying Greek tenses, verbs, voice, moods, and basically the Greek and Hebrew grammer with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit?
You and Benner seem to reject that!
WJ
One finale thought —
If you will remember I have in the past posted my understandings of hermaneutics. I listed the rules I attempt to follow.
In capitols at the bottom of the post I wrote be led by the spirit.
Being led by the breath of God is a given in any bible study, but the accuracy of those conclusions will be according to the accuracy of hearing from God and not our own imaginations or traditions.Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,10:53) If you will remember I have in the past posted my understandings of hermaneutics. I listed the rules I attempt to follow.
MartianAre not the rules that you follow made by you? In other words the rules themselves that were created may not be correct and lead to error.
For instance if your rules applied to a scripture brings you to an understanding or interpretation of that scripture that violates the Greek or Hebrew rules of grammar then your rules are flawed. Which is greater, your rules or the rules of Hebrew and Greek grammar?
Take the example of translating John 1:1 for instance…
What case, gender, and number is “Theos” in John 1:1? Why is it anarthrous?
How about parsing “en”, it’s found three times in the verse. It’s very important.
Whats its lexical form? Why is the imperfect tense important in the verse?
How does the imperfect tense relate to the prepositional phrase at the start of the verse?
Why is “arche” in dative case? Why does “pros” have grave accent?
Do you know these things? I am not a skilled Greek scholar either so I trust what the Translators have done and seek to learn Greek grammar.
If I am not mistaken your “rules” of interpreting scriptures never mentions anything about Greek or Hebrew rules of grammar!
If not should they not include them?
Should your rules supercede the Greek for instance in John chpater 6 where the meaning that Jesus came down from heaven cannot mean a thought or plan came down, but in fact the Greek dictates that he literally came down and that in the context he says he will literally ascend back to where he was before?
Should we follow your rule if it violates the true interpretation of the text? Or shouldn't we just throw away our manmade doctrines and accept the text for what it says?
WJ
And what text or copy of the text are you using?
And who did the interpretation and made the rules that you flaunt so much?
And whose understanding of Greek do you follow?All translation and even rules of translation are subject to error.
That is why I have over and over and over and over and over and over again said that a functional test of our conclusions is more definitive then OUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS.You conclusions lead nowhere and produce nothing. They have no fruit that moves us along the path of righteousness or makes Christ more of a viable example for us. THEREFORE no matter how many tenses you quote it is still wrong.
your Greek dissection of the verses cannot follow the intent of the author if it does not support the plan of God and certainly cannot be correct if it works against the plan of God as your does.
MartianThank you. For you have just claimed that “You” are the final authority in translating and then interpreting the text.
You have just proven to us that the litteral meaning of the Greek does not mean anything to you if it violates your rules of interpretation and your understanding or doctrine.
What authority or right do you have to do this?
How can you possibly know the plan of God if you reject the scriptures and their intended meaning?
WJ
Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,12:19) You conclusions lead nowhere and produce nothing.
MartianUnfortunately for you they are not my conclusions but the conclusions of the experts in Greek grammar and translation!
But you seem to claim that you know more than they!
You make these false claims without addressing why the conclusions in John chapter 6 based on Greek grammar and rules are wrong! But instead you come up with pure apologetics!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2009,05:18) Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,12:19) You conclusions lead nowhere and produce nothing.
MartianUnfortunately for you they are not my conclusions but the conclusions of the experts in Greek grammar and translation!
But you seem to claim that you know more than they!
You make these false claims without addressing why the conclusions in John chapter 6 based on Greek grammar and rules are wrong! But instead you come up with pure apologetics!
WJ
OK WJ,I bow to your understanding and your wisdom. I now know that you are right. God is a triune God. Christ is God
NOW WHAT?
WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THAT?HOW DOES THAT BUILD (EDIFY) ME UP?
HOW DOES THAT TEACH ME RIGHTEOUSNESS?COME ON SMARTY PANTS. YOU CLAIM TO KNOW EVERYTHING. TELL ME DO YOU HAVE A PHILOSOPHY THAT IS GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT DEBATE FORUMS ARE DO YOU HAVE A LIVING WORKING GOSPEL THAT ACTUALLY CHANGES LIVES.
hi WJ and gene
I believe that Martian is right but is explanation is misunderstoot,just think that you walk by the spirit not by the letter,is this not means that no matter if you dont know greek,hebrew,and have not a so greath intelect,God does he not say i take the foolishtings of the world to confuse the worldly wise?,so in my understanding if you let grow in your heart the knowledge of God word by refreshing constantly,you will recieve the understanding not from the intelect but from the spirit of God who is close to us if we are sincere in our hearts,i think this is what martian try to express i believe is it
?Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,13:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2009,05:18) Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,12:19) You conclusions lead nowhere and produce nothing.
MartianUnfortunately for you they are not my conclusions but the conclusions of the experts in Greek grammar and translation!
But you seem to claim that you know more than they!
You make these false claims without addressing why the conclusions in John chapter 6 based on Greek grammar and rules are wrong! But instead you come up with pure apologetics!
WJ
OK WJ,I bow to your understanding and your wisdom. I now know that you are right. God is a triune God. Christ is God
NOW WHAT?
WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THAT?HOW DOES THAT BUILD (EDIFY) ME UP?
HOW DOES THAT TEACH ME RIGHTEOUSNESS?COME ON SMARTY PANTS. YOU CLAIM TO KNOW EVERYTHING. TELL ME DO YOU HAVE A PHILOSOPHY THAT IS GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT DEBATE FORUMS ARE DO YOU HAVE A LIVING WORKING GOSPEL THAT ACTUALLY CHANGES LIVES.
MartianWhy are you yelling? I am not trying to prove the Trinity.
I am trying to show you that the scriptures in John chapter 6 do not allow for a Unitarian interpretation as an example that “methods” of interpretation should not supersede “Translation”. You understand the difference don't you? If you claim to want to know what the scriptures say then you should be able to at least give a reason why the Apostle John wrote it that way. You refuse to look at the rules of Greek Grammar and show me how it can be translated and interpreted your way.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,13:47) [COME ON SMARTY PANTS. YOU CLAIM TO KNOW EVERYTHING. TELL ME DO YOU HAVE A PHILOSOPHY THAT IS GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT DEBATE FORUMS ARE DO YOU HAVE A LIVING WORKING GOSPEL THAT ACTUALLY CHANGES LIVES.
First of all, it is not I who claims to know it all, as I said the conclusions for the Greek in John 6 are not mine but the experts.It is not I who opposes over 600 scholars that translated the scriptures that way!
It is not I who opposes “Strongs” and AT Robertson a world renowned Greek Scholar.
It is not I that claims the scriptures are corrupt!
It seems rather arrogant to me for the “Unitarians” to oppose the clear teaching in the scriptures concerning Jesus preexistence!
BTW, knowing who the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are has changed my life and bears fruit in my life.
But you assume that because I am a Trinitarian that I have no fruit and that has no merit at all.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,13:47) TELL ME DO YOU HAVE A PHILOSOPHY THAT IS GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT DEBATE FORUMS ARE DO YOU HAVE A LIVING WORKING GOSPEL THAT ACTUALLY CHANGES LIVES. I believe in Angels, but how does that produce fruit in my life and change lives? So should I just say that to believe in Angels is false because it doesn't produce fruit in my life or change lives? Remember those Angels “came down from heaven” also, the same expression Jesus used when he said that he came down from heaven.
This is another example of the fallacy of your theory.
The burden of proof is on you to show why the experts are wrong!
WJ
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 10 2009,14:10) hi WJ and gene
I believe that Martian is right but is explanation is misunderstoot,just think that you walk by the spirit not by the letter,is this not means that no matter if you dont know greek,hebrew,and have not a so greath intelect,God does he not say i take the foolishtings of the world to confuse the worldly wise?,so in my understanding if you let grow in your heart the knowledge of God word by refreshing constantly,you will recieve the understanding not from the intelect but from the spirit of God who is close to us if we are sincere in our hearts,i think this is what martian try to express i believe is it?
TThe Holy Spirit will not contradict the “inspired scriptures”!
WJ
hi WJ
NO ,because there is no diference between “being guided or inspired by the Holy spirit.
same spirit.
but we should look at false pretenders to be prophets and so guided man.
the scriptures told us that they will be some today as well.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2009,08:24) Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,13:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2009,05:18) Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,12:19) You conclusions lead nowhere and produce nothing.
MartianUnfortunately for you they are not my conclusions but the conclusions of the experts in Greek grammar and translation!
But you seem to claim that you know more than they!
You make these false claims without addressing why the conclusions in John chapter 6 based on Greek grammar and rules are wrong! But instead you come up with pure apologetics!
WJ
OK WJ,I bow to your understanding and your wisdom. I now know that you are right. God is a triune God. Christ is God
NOW WHAT?
WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THAT?HOW DOES THAT BUILD (EDIFY) ME UP?
HOW DOES THAT TEACH ME RIGHTEOUSNESS?COME ON SMARTY PANTS. YOU CLAIM TO KNOW EVERYTHING. TELL ME DO YOU HAVE A PHILOSOPHY THAT IS GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT DEBATE FORUMS ARE DO YOU HAVE A LIVING WORKING GOSPEL THAT ACTUALLY CHANGES LIVES.
MartianWhy are you yelling? I am not trying to prove the Trinity.
I am trying to show you that the scriptures in John chapter 6 do not allow for a Unitarian interpretation as an example that “methods” of interpretation should not supersede “Translation”. You understand the difference don't you? If you claim to want to know what the scriptures say then you should be able to at least give a reason why the Apostle John wrote it that way. You refuse to look at the rules of Greek Grammar and show me how it can be translated and interpreted your way.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,13:47) [COME ON SMARTY PANTS. YOU CLAIM TO KNOW EVERYTHING. TELL ME DO YOU HAVE A PHILOSOPHY THAT IS GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT DEBATE FORUMS ARE DO YOU HAVE A LIVING WORKING GOSPEL THAT ACTUALLY CHANGES LIVES.
First of all, it is not I who claims to know it all, as I said the conclusions for the Greek in John 6 are not mine but the experts.It is not I who opposes over 600 scholars that translated the scriptures that way!
It is not I who opposes “Strongs” and AT Robertson a world renowned Greek Scholar.
It is not I that claims the scriptures are corrupt!
It seems rather arrogant to me for the “Unitarians” to oppose the clear teaching in the scriptures concerning Jesus preexistence!
BTW, knowing who the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are has changed my life and bears fruit in my life.
But you assume that because I am a Trinitarian that I have no fruit and that has no merit at all.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,13:47) TELL ME DO YOU HAVE A PHILOSOPHY THAT IS GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT DEBATE FORUMS ARE DO YOU HAVE A LIVING WORKING GOSPEL THAT ACTUALLY CHANGES LIVES. I believe in Angels, but how does that produce fruit in my life and change lives? So should I just say that to believe in Angels is false because it doesn't produce fruit in my life or change lives? Remember those Angels “came down from heaven” also, the same expression Jesus used when he said that he came down from heaven.
This is another example of the fallacy of your theory.
The burden of proof is on you to show why the experts are wrong!
WJ
WJ and Thinker
How dare you. You willing insult the character of My Father. You change the immutable character of the Judeo Christian God into a corruptible being able to be tempted and thereby capable of sin.
You challenge the very plan and purpose of God by insisting on a tradition whose origin is the occult rantings of the Roman Emperior.
You change the simple functional gospel of the human Christ as an example for his human brethren into some mysterious hybrid creature that could never exist outside of the musings of Greek philosophers.
I could care less what you or your so-called Greek experts want to say about John 1 or anything else. I do not have to counter your Greek scholars in any way. All I need do is look at the end conclusion (fruit) of your interpretation.
I should be thankful that you remain on this venue. At least here you can do no real harm to Christianity with your anti-Christ teaching.
Yes! I said it ANTI-CHRIST.
Christ means the anointed one.
And anti means against.
You change Christ into a being that is God and does not need an anointing. Against the anointed one. Your teaching is anti-Christ because it does not teach a Christ that came in the flesh. In the flesh, born unto a woman, under the law, made in EVERY WAY like his brethren.Now you have managed to tick me off and as much as I would like to be ashamed about it, I am not.
“Be angry and sin not.”
It is not a sin to want to preserve the integrity of the immutability of YHWH and the nature of His human son and our savior and example Christ.
I will not play games with you anymore. If you do not produce some proof of your doctrines good fruit then it will be obvious that you have none and that your doctrine is a waste of time.experts he yells, disprove the experts, WJ go catholic and get it over with.
sorry Wj, not everyone has time to study the experts. so no matter what they have written, is of no use.
the trinity teachings are being exposed for what they have been for years, deceiving, lie. the church has lied to the ones they are to watch over, and now the true church is coming to life. the trinity churches are now feeling what the catholic churches have felt.
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
hi WJ
as christians true ones that is do not need to be instructed by religion ,the word of God is complete to them,and that is what is so disterbing for the false pretenders of faith,the false pretenders like power so they like recognition from men not from god ,and because of it they do not have love in there hearts they will never reach gods understanding,but will try to influence others in there wayQuote (martian @ Dec. 11 2009,10:49) WJ and Thinker
How dare you. You willing insult the character of My Father. You change the immutable character of the Judeo Christian God into a corruptible being able to be tempted and thereby capable of sin.
You challenge the very plan and purpose of God by insisting on a tradition whose origin is the occult rantings of the Roman Emperior.
You change the simple functional gospel of the human Christ as an example for his human brethren into some mysterious hybrid creature that could never exist outside of the musings of Greek philosophers.
I could care less what you or your so-called Greek experts want to say about John 1 or anything else. I do not have to counter your Greek scholars in any way. All I need do is look at the end conclusion (fruit) of your interpretation.
I should be thankful that you remain on this venue. At least here you can do no real harm to Christianity with your anti-Christ teaching.
Yes! I said it ANTI-CHRIST.
Christ means the anointed one.
And anti means against.
You change Christ into a being that is God and does not need an anointing. Against the anointed one. Your teaching is anti-Christ because it does not teach a Christ that came in the flesh. In the flesh, born unto a woman, under the law, made in EVERY WAY like his brethren.Now you have managed to tick me off and as much as I would like to be ashamed about it, I am not.
“Be angry and sin not.”
It is not a sin to want to preserve the integrity of the immutability of YHWH and the nature of His human son and our savior and example Christ.
I will not play games with you anymore. If you do not produce some proof of your doctrines good fruit then it will be obvious that you have none and that your doctrine is a waste of time.
martian…….>Amen, you have presented it right brother. Their teaching are not sound and maker (NO) sense at all.peace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Hi,
We are to pull down speculations and anything that raises itself against the truth of God.
But folk love opinion.Nick,
I can only speak for myself (although I'm sure it applies to most), I want truth. I have no interest in putting together together my own set of “religious beliefs”. I have studied scriptures for thirty years now with the intent purpose of finding truth, I have read what other have said about truth and at the end of the day I'm left with… “my opinion”. I can tell you I hate that I've failed to, with absolute certainty, put truth in a box, but I can tell you that I have very firm beliefs on most issues, that many here disagree with, I could be wrong, I've tried my best to understand what the scriptures say, I have sought the guidance from the Holy Spirit, but I may be wrong.So what I'm saying is, is it really wrong to approach life with your beliefs held as opinions, does it not leave you more flexible to accept truth when it comes our way, unless you believe you already have all truth, I certainly don't.
Which is why I continue to sign:
My opinion – Wm
While I hold most of my beliefs as subject to change I do not hold my relationship with the Father with that same uncertainty, He, as represented by His Son, is Truth, and love will never fail. We are saved by our relationship, both to God and to man (I expect a lot of flack for that statement). Love overcomes both sin, and errors in doctrine, it is my relationship with the Father that compels me to not sin and to do good works, it does not work the other way around.
Wm (notice no “my opinion”, this I believe at the core of my being)
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