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Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,12:30) Hi KW,
Was Nicodemus already reborn from above??John 3:30-36(NIV) reads:
Quote He must become greater; I must become less. “The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.”
Hi KW,
So everything, including the Spirit he was given, is placed in the hands of the Son of God to share with those joined to him. All must come to the door of the Son Jesus Christ who is the source for men of the waters of eternal life[jn7]. Those who climb in by other means are theives and robbers.[jn10]Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,12:49) Hi KW,
So everything, including the Spirit he was given, is placed in the hands of the Son of God to share with those joined to him. All must come to the door of the Son Jesus Christ who is the source for men of the waters of eternal life[jn7]. Those who climb in by other means are theives and robbers.[jn10]
That sounds right but weren't we discussing whether or not coming from above proves preexistence?Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,14:00) Hi KW,
No.
Preexistence is an oxymoron.
One either exists or one does not
Yes it is but it still sounds like you are dodging the issue. I just want you to consider the way words are used in scripture. In this case we are not speaking of location of geography though the words seem to clearly say that but rather location of inspiration. I also wanted you to consider where Jesus' inspiration comes from.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 23 2009,01:09) Hi KW,
His inspiration is of the Spirit of God given at the Jordan.
You think Jesus was not inspired before the Jordan river?Hi KW,
God, his Father, was always with him training him in ways of righteousness.
He was given the Spirit at the Jordan and the fruits and the gifts of God manifested from that time onwards.
We follow him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,19:00) Hi KW,
No.
Preexistence is an oxymoron.
One either exists or one does not
no its not…“oxymoron [ox-see-more-on]
Noun
a figure of speech that combines two apparently contradictory terms, for example cruel kindness [Greek oxus sharp + mōros stupid]”if one were saying that someone existed before they existed, then yes, that would be untrue and logically fallacious…. but preexistence when applied to Jesus Christ means that prior to His earthly incarnation He already possessed existence, that is, He did not start to exist at the incarnation, and further, that there never was a time when He did not exist. there is nothing contradictory or oxymoronic (is that a word? if not, it should be lol!!) about that at all. The word was coined to try and disabuse persons tainted by false and unbiblical notions, especially promoted by various strains of Arianism that says that prior to the incarnation, Jesus, the Son of God, did not exist. This is false, Jesus preexisted prior to the incarnation.
pre·ex·ist or pre-ex·ist (prg-zst)
v. pre·ex·ist·ed, pre·ex·ist·ing, pre·ex·ists
v.tr.
To exist before (something); precede: Dinosaurs preexisted humans.
v.intr.
To exist beforehand.Jesus the Son existed before the incarnation, or, in other words, He preexisted before the incarnation… got it?
blessings,
kenHi KW,
Jesus was not a Superman from birth.
It denies the anointing powers of Almighty God to suggest he was different from other men.He was chosen and guarded and guided but it was the Spirit that enabled his works.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 23 2009,05:28) Hi KW,
Jesus was not a Superman from birth.
It denies the anointing powers of Almighty God to suggest he was different from other men.He was chosen and guarded and guided but it was the Spirit that enabled his works.
'
I believe he did gain authority when God had the Holy Spirit descend on him at the Jordan river but I also believe he was inspired by God previously which is why he was showing knowledge of the truth at the temple when but he was but 12.
Luke 2:46-47(NIV) reads:
Quote After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
Hi KW,
Certainly His Father schooled him well in his youth on scripture and it's beauty.
But that was all towards enabling his vessel to be clean and suitable for infilling with treasureColossians 2:3
In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.We follow him
2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.Luke 6:45
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.Hi KW, as far as
Quote Certainly His Father schooled him well in his youth on scripture and it's beauty.
But that was all towards enabling his vessel to be clean and suitable for infilling with treasurethese are simply the carnal understandings of a sinful fallen man and should not be taken as anything other than N's interpretation of what the Scriptures mean. While for some reason Nick wants to deny the right of interpretation to others, remember that he is busily engaged in interpretation himself, and that if we must dismiss “scholars” because their commentaries are simply “the words of man”, then Nick's judgment on these men must necessarily fall on himself, for he too is merely a man who's interpretations not only need not be accepted, but according to Nick, since it is not the Scripture itself, should be therefore summarily dismissed. Now of course this is unreasonable and illogical as the holy Spirit as given gifts to the church like the office of teacher, and we should respect (not blindly accept all they say) teachers who are in fact knowledgeable in the original languages and the study of the culture out of which the Scriptures came…etc…. but Nick seems to want people to not accept the words/interpretations of anyone but himself. This is so blindingly clear it amazes me that Nick does not see it, but then maybe that has something to do with his insistence that we be like little children, as so that is all the higher he aspires to in his own level of reasoning ability?
blessings,
kenNick………Think about what E said brother, you do make you own interpretations that are not written in the scriptures yourself also, so is it fair for you to condemn other when you yourself do the same thing. I don't mean to be disrespectful to you. Let stop this personal attacks brother OK. I know you Job as monitor is not an easy one.
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,15:19) G,
No you must be reborn from above.
You have not learned much if you think natural men already have the Spirit of God.Check the fruit.
Nick……So are you saying that ADAM did not have the Spirit of GOD in Him? Am i understanding you right, and GOD does not enlighten every man coming into the world then. Pleas explain you statement brother.peace and love……………gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2009,13:47) Yes G,
Read scripture
He had the breath of God.
The problem I see here is that both spirit and soul are the breath of God and yet they are not the same according to scripture.Hi KW,
The breath of God is neither His soul nor His Spirit any more than ours is.You must be reborn from above to share the Spirit of God.
Till we are reborn we are as the animals with our own spirit only. Eccl, Rom8,
Unless we find the fountain of waters of eternal life in Jesus[jn7] our natural life ends at death [jas2] till we are raised at the Judgement.
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