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John 5:
16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought t
o slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
The Jews at that time knew Angels were called The Sons of God and so were prophets.
But when Jesus said it, he apparently meant it in a different way…so much so they wanted to kill him.
Mind you this isn't the first time they wanted to kill Jesus because he made it seem like he was God somehow.
Remember when he said “Before Abraham I was” and the Jews wanted to kill him for blasphemy making himself out to be God?
So if Jesus was but a mere man, then making these statements and watching the Jews reactions would prove he's a liar.
And if he's a liar then the christian faith is nothing.
However
If Jesus meant what he stated in his claims…based on the Jewish reactions we can see that he absolutely claimed that he was equal to The Father. And if we are to know Jesus is sinless then we also should understand he is God.
And please, remember there are 3 forms of comparison
You can be Less Than, Equal, or Greater Than
So…so pls don't refute this by saying Jesus said I am not greater than the father…Because that statement still leaves the Equal and Less Than options….
Where trinies take the equal, non trinies take the Less Than.
Hi R,
Jesus told the Jews the Father was the one they called God[Jn. 8.54]
Surely you would not call him a liar ?He went back to his and our God[Jn20.17]
Why do you prefer the teachings of carnal men?
Choose your master well.Quote (RokkaMan @ Sep. 17 2009,04:53) John 5: 16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought t
o slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
The Jews at that time knew Angels were called The Sons of God and so were prophets.
But when Jesus said it, he apparently meant it in a different way…so much so they wanted to kill him.
Mind you this isn't the first time they wanted to kill Jesus because he made it seem like he was God somehow.
Remember when he said “Before Abraham I was” and the Jews wanted to kill him for blasphemy making himself out to be God?
So if Jesus was but a mere man, then making these statements and watching the Jews reactions would prove he's a liar.
And if he's a liar then the christian faith is nothing.
However
If Jesus meant what he stated in his claims…based on the Jewish reactions we can see that he absolutely claimed that he was equal to The Father. And if we are to know Jesus is sinless then we also should understand he is God.
And please, remember there are 3 forms of comparison
You can be Less Than, Equal, or Greater Than
So…so pls don't refute this by saying Jesus said I am not greater than the father…Because that statement still leaves the Equal and Less Than options….
Where trinies take the equal, non trinies take the Less Than.
the Pharisees also said GOD was their FATHER, does that mean they though they were GOD. According to you logic they would have thought that also. They were falsely accusing Jesus , Jesus never Said He was The ONE and TRUE GOD, if it is written show it and the case will be settled. But Scripture does say that there is (ONLY) one GOD, and GOD HIMSELF said there is (NO) other GOD besides HIM. Now how do the lying trinitarians get around that, not only by Jesus direct words but BY GOD the FATHER HIMSELF also. But rather then accept the Truth they would rather hang on tho their false teachings and continue to try to confuse People in IDOLATRY, by creating another GOD. IMOpeace and love………………gene
Quote (RokkaMan @ Sep. 16 2009,12:53) John 5: 16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought t
o slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
The Jews at that time knew Angels were called The Sons of God and so were prophets.
But when Jesus said it, he apparently meant it in a different way…so much so they wanted to kill him.
Mind you this isn't the first time they wanted to kill Jesus because he made it seem like he was God somehow.
Remember when he said “Before Abraham I was” and the Jews wanted to kill him for blasphemy making himself out to be God?
So if Jesus was but a mere man, then making these statements and watching the Jews reactions would prove he's a liar.
And if he's a liar then the christian faith is nothing.
However
If Jesus meant what he stated in his claims…based on the Jewish reactions we can see that he absolutely claimed that he was equal to The Father. And if we are to know Jesus is sinless then we also should understand he is God.
And please, remember there are 3 forms of comparison
You can be Less Than, Equal, or Greater Than
So…so pls don't refute this by saying Jesus said I am not greater than the father…Because that statement still leaves the Equal and Less Than options….
Where trinies take the equal, non trinies take the Less Than.
Hi Rokkaman,
I totally get what you are saying in the first part of your post. When Jesus claimed to be the “Son of God,” He was implying that He had the same nature of His Father…a god nature. The Jews believed that they were “sons of God” but they weren't stoning each other for believing that, so obviously, IMO, to cause such a reaction of wanting Jesus to be killed because He said that He was the Son of God shows that they understood Him to be saying something entirely different. From what I can tell, they were offended by Jesus' claims and thought that their God would be also, hence the stoning attempts and later the crucifixion.What I differ with you on is that I do not understand Jesus to be equally God as the Father is. for Jesus, as a son, came from someone…His Father. The Father came from no one. The Father was the source of the Son. The Son had a beginning (as an offspring not as a creation). I believe that to be the Most High God, that God would be a source of all good things and not come from another.
The Son is unique as the Only begotten God and the Father is unique as the only always existent God. The Son exists because of the will of the Most High God and the Son has authority because of the will of the Most High God who sees His Son as worthy. I believe the will of the Most High God is for the worship of His Son by the angels as well as by men and I will worship the Father and the Son for they are worthy of my praise and worship.
My opinion,
KathiQuote (RokkaMan @ Sep. 17 2009,04:53) John 5: 16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought t
o slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
The Jews at that time knew Angels were called The Sons of God and so were prophets.
But when Jesus said it, he apparently meant it in a different way…so much so they wanted to kill him.
Mind you this isn't the first time they wanted to kill Jesus because he made it seem like he was God somehow.
Remember when he said “Before Abraham I was” and the Jews wanted to kill him for blasphemy making himself out to be God?
So if Jesus was but a mere man, then making these statements and watching the Jews reactions would prove he's a liar.
And if he's a liar then the christian faith is nothing.
However
If Jesus meant what he stated in his claims…based on the Jewish reactions we can see that he absolutely claimed that he was equal to The Father. And if we are to know Jesus is sinless then we also should understand he is God.
And please, remember there are 3 forms of comparison
You can be Less Than, Equal, or Greater Than
So…so pls don't refute this by saying Jesus said I am not greater than the father…Because that statement still leaves the Equal and Less Than options….
Where trinies take the equal, non trinies take the Less Than.
Jesus reaction to this, is to point out that he can do nothing of himself, only what he sees his Father doing. In fact this scripture strongly reinforces the truth that his Father is his God and he (Jesus) is in submission to him. Again we make the same mistake as the Jews, if we use this scripture to say that Jesus is co equal to the Father. Whatever equality Jesus has with God was given to him by God, because all things originate in God. Equality has the word quality in it. He is theos in quality, but not in identity.Quote (RokkaMan @ Sep. 17 2009,04:53) John 5: 16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought t
o slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
The Jews at that time knew Angels were called The Sons of God and so were prophets.
But when Jesus said it, he apparently meant it in a different way…so much so they wanted to kill him.
Mind you this isn't the first time they wanted to kill Jesus because he made it seem like he was God somehow.
Remember when he said “Before Abraham I was” and the Jews wanted to kill him for blasphemy making himself out to be God?
So if Jesus was but a mere man, then making these statements and watching the Jews reactions would prove he's a liar.
And if he's a liar then the christian faith is nothing.
However
If Jesus meant what he stated in his claims…based on the Jewish reactions we can see that he absolutely claimed that he was equal to The Father. And if we are to know Jesus is sinless then we also should understand he is God.
And please, remember there are 3 forms of comparison
You can be Less Than, Equal, or Greater Than
So…so pls don't refute this by saying Jesus said I am not greater than the father…Because that statement still leaves the Equal and Less Than options….
Where trinies take the equal, non trinies take the Less Than.
Hi RokkaMan:When Jesus stated that His Father worked and so he also worked on the Sabbath, it was in response to the Pharisees accusation that he was violating the Sabbath by healing people on the Sabbath.
Apparently, they thought that he was saying that he was equal to God because He said my Father works and I work, that is on the Sabbath.
Jesus answered the accusation by saying:
Quote Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. And so, he told them that He was acting obedience to God.
And so, they might of accused him of making himself equal to God by saying that God was his Father, but he in his response said: “The Son can do nothing of himself”, and so, do you think that he was saying that he was equal to God?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote Where trinies take the equal, non trinies take the Less Than. Joh 3:30 `Him it behoveth to increase, and me to become less;
Shema Yisrael (or Sh'ma Yisroel or just Shema) (Hebrew: שמע ישראל; “Hear, [O] Israel”) are the first two words of a section of the Torah (Hebrew Bible) that is a centerpiece of the morning and evening Jewish prayer services. The first verse encapsulates the monotheistic essence of Judaism: “Hear, O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is One”, found in Deuteronomy 6:4.
Observant Jews consider the Shema to be the most important prayer in Judaism, and its twice-daily recitation as a mitzvah (religious commandment). It is traditional for Jews to say the Shema as their last words.
The only view they ever had was God is one.
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