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This is not the total truth,some of those cast away have already refused to accept the apostles envoy's and some congregation leaders prevent them to even talk to his congregation ,so that now the wolves took possession of those souls in his now personal congregation,
And also understand what Paul says to his spiritual son Thimoty ,after he warned him about the corruption in the teachings and told him :to stay away from them and stick to what he as learned ,knowing from whom he received the teaching,
So it does not matter what :we all have to stick to the scriptures and make sure to overcome the trickery of the devil works (men against the truth)
So it still leaves us alone with Christ and his father our God ,it does not matter if you are in or outside a church or congregation,,the trouble with men made churches is that they feel that they have to belong first to the church then to God ,this is why the leaders put rituals in place and create a exclusive club ,
And make sure that the ones that are not conforming to those rules of taught s are corrected or expelled and Declare unwanted for association ,spiritually killed ,until they accepting the will and the ways of the church views,never mind scriptures this would be secondary,
No kingdom (church)can survive if it is divided,this is also the rule that Constantine the great applied to his kingdom with religion,
So bottom line ,we have to follow Christ and his father words ,no place in the scriptures it says that we have to stay within a corrupted church or congregation and so expose ourself to become corrupted,but it say to run away of those type of congregation or company by fear of corruption,
And last it is Christ that will judge us not men ,
Ed wrote:[/quote]
Quote It was through Satan's plan that God became man, Edj,
All yours enjoy!
Lucifer opted to be the direct contender for the achievement of humanity. Therefore a negative God and be like the Most High.
Matthew 16:22And Peter taking him, began to rebuke him, saying: Lord, be it far from thee, this shall not be unto thee. 23Who turning, said to Peter: Go behind me, Satan, thou art a scandal unto me: because thou savourest not the things that are of God,
BUT THE THINGS THAT ARE OF MEN.
always believing, and still believes,that he would achieve it
God automatically,and accordingly only radiates His power to those who loves him. So since Lucifer became His direct contender,and became powerless, there was only one way out for Lucifer.
That the light shines through darkness,and darkness never comprehended. OK?
So God, through the word the mediator,Jesus' spirit,recreated our world both through HIMSELF SPIRITUAL WISE. (MALE, SOULS)and through darkness, Lucifer/Satan MATERIAL WISE (FEMALE FLESH)
AND GOD BECAME BOTH GOD OF THE WORLD OBVIOUS THROUGH SATAN!
AND GOD OF THE HEAVENS OBVIOUS THROUGH THE WORD!
NOW REFLECT:
THE WORLD AND THE FEMALE SUBJECTS WERE GIVEN TO SATAN. EVIL
THE SOUL AND THE MALE SUBJECTS WERE GOD'S GOOD
IN THIS WAY GOD CREATED A VERY GOOD WORLD SINCE THERE WAS A PERFECT EQUILIBRIUM . BUT NOT PERFECTLY ALL GOOD!
IT WAS JESUS FUNDAMENTAL TASK TO PUT IT PERFECTLY ALL GOOD!
ON THE THE CROSS,TO DECIDE WHO IS MOST POWERFUL:GOOD OR EVIL!!!
THE FLESH BODY OF JESUS,(SATAN'S PROPERTY EVIL) OR THE SOUL OF JESUS???(GOD'S PROPERTY GOOD)
SO IF JESUS, son of man AS A JEW WAS NOT ACCORDING TO THE LEAST OF THE LEAST OF SATAN'S WORLD CREDENTIALS AND THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF GOD OF THE WORLD, JESUS WOULD HAVE BEEN ERADICATED!
but SATAN lost it on the cross in his first attempt,when Jesus never died ALTHOUGH MAN,but Satan did ALTHOUGH A SPIRIT, and achieved his kingdom!
TO EXPLAIN IN DETAILS HOW JESUS OVERTHREW SATAN,IN A WAY THAT SATAN NEVER HAD THE CHANCE TO FUNCTION AS THE SPIRIT OF DEATH, HIS OWN ATTRIBUTE, BUT INSTEAD JESUS'SPIRIT FUNCTIONED AND CONTINUED THE SPIRITUAL PROCESS OF HIS FLESH BODY,THEREFORE DIDN'T DIE LIKE WE DO,ALTHOUGH HE SEEMED SO,
I NEED A HELL OF A SPACE
NOW SATAN NEVER BELIEVED THAT JESUS IS COMPLETELY CLEAR,THEREFORE INNOCENT!
FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT JESUS IGNORED ALL SATAN'S RULES AND COMMANDMENTS OF THE WORLD IN ORDER TO BE BORN AS SON OF MAN
ALTHOUGH GOD LOST BOTH ADAM(SOUL) AND EVE,(FLESH) THEREFORE TOTALLY AGAINST ALL ODDS.
OBVIOUS THIS BECAUSE JESUS DID IT NOT FOR HIM BUT FOR LUCIFER TO BECOME MAN THROUGH THE SINFUL WAY,BUT STILL JESUS WON!!!
I leave it to you to ask all questions, and through your questions I will supply all what the Holy Spirit would eventually
enlighten me with!PLEASE REFLECT IN DEPT!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (david @ April 02 2013,10:17) Does it not seem to all, that true Christians around the world, should generally believe the same things?
David,They will come to learn the one true gospel. The true teachers of God will teach it. They are the good fish.
Quote (carmel @ April 03 2013,04:46) Quote (Ed J @ April 02 2013,15:29) Quote It was through Satan's plan that God became man, Edj,
All yours enjoy!
Lucifer opted to be the direct contender for the achievement of humanity. Therefore a negative God and be like the Most High.
Matthew 16:22And Peter taking him, began to rebuke him, saying: Lord, be it far from thee, this shall not be unto thee. 23Who turning, said to Peter: Go behind me, Satan, thou art a scandal unto me: because thou savourest not the things that are of God,
BUT THE THINGS THAT ARE OF MEN.
always believing, and still believes,that he would achieve it
God automatically,and accordingly only radiates His power to those who loves him. So since Lucifer became His direct contender,and became powerless, there was only one way out for Lucifer.
That the light shines through darkness,and darkness never comprehended. OK?
So God, through the word the mediator,Jesus' spirit,recreated our world both through HIMSELF SPIRITUAL WISE. (MALE, SOULS)and through darkness, Lucifer/Satan MATERIAL WISE (FEMALE FLESH)
AND GOD BECAME BOTH GOD OF THE WORLD OBVIOUS THROUGH SATAN!
AND GOD OF THE HEAVENS OBVIOUS THROUGH THE WORD!
NOW REFLECT:
THE WORLD AND THE FEMALE SUBJECTS WERE GIVEN TO SATAN. EVIL
THE SOUL AND THE MALE SUBJECTS WERE GOD'S GOOD
IN THIS WAY GOD CREATED A VERY GOOD WORLD SINCE THERE WAS A PERFECT EQUILIBRIUM . BUT NOT PERFECTLY ALL GOOD!
IT WAS JESUS FUNDAMENTAL TASK TO PUT IT PERFECTLY ALL GOOD!
ON THE THE CROSS,TO DECIDE WHO IS MOST POWERFUL:GOOD OR EVIL!!!
THE FLESH BODY OF JESUS,(SATAN'S PROPERTY EVIL) OR THE SOUL OF JESUS???(GOD'S PROPERTY GOOD)
SO IF JESUS, son of man AS A JEW WAS NOT ACCORDING TO THE LEAST OF THE LEAST OF SATAN'S WORLD CREDENTIALS AND THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF GOD OF THE WORLD, JESUS WOULD HAVE BEEN ERADICATED!
but SATAN lost it on the cross in his first attempt,when Jesus never died ALTHOUGH MAN,but Satan did ALTHOUGH A SPIRIT, and achieved his kingdom!
TO EXPLAIN IN DETAILS HOW JESUS OVERTHREW SATAN,IN A WAY THAT SATAN NEVER HAD THE CHANCE TO FUNCTION AS THE SPIRIT OF DEATH, HIS OWN ATTRIBUTE, BUT INSTEAD JESUS'SPIRIT FUNCTIONED AND CONTINUED THE SPIRITUAL PROCESS OF HIS FLESH BODY,THEREFORE DIDN'T DIE LIKE WE DO,ALTHOUGH HE SEEMED SO,
I NEED A HELL OF A SPACE
NOW SATAN NEVER BELIEVED THAT JESUS IS COMPLETELY CLEAR,THEREFORE INNOCENT!
FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT JESUS IGNORED ALL SATAN'S RULES AND COMMANDMENTS OF THE WORLD IN ORDER TO BE BORN AS SON OF MAN
ALTHOUGH GOD LOST BOTH ADAM(SOUL) AND EVE,(FLESH) THEREFORE TOTALLY AGAINST ALL ODDS.
OBVIOUS THIS BECAUSE JESUS DID IT NOT FOR HIM BUT FOR LUCIFER TO BECOME MAN THROUGH THE SINFUL WAY,BUT STILL JESUS WON!!!
I leave it to you to ask all questions, and through your questions I will supply all what the Holy Spirit would eventually
enlighten me with!PLEASE REFLECT IN DEPT!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Hi Charles, thank you!Yes, I have wanted to discuss this in more detail
with you for some time now. I have a thread all set
up where we can discuss Lucifer's involvement in this. (Link)Please copy this post (of yours) and RE-POST it
over there, and we will continue discussing this; OK?Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Jeremy @ Mar. 30 2013,09:09) Lightenup I come on here and there is alot of clever people who can tell you what this greek word means or what somthing means in hebrew, I`m not one of those people, I`m not even that good at english and sometimes just to right a post can take a silly amount of time. However the bible tells me that truth is simple to understand. For me God made it simple, he called himself the Father and Jesus his son, what could be more simple than that.
To me its clear that Jesus has free will to choose to stay in the will of God or go against him, otherwise why would Satan have tried to tempt him. Now to me its our own free will that makes us all separate I carry the DNA of my dad and my mom but I am not them, I am my own person because I have my own free will.
Hi Jeremy,
Just reading the Bible is fine for one who reads a good translation. How to know which one is a good translation takes getting to know the original languages that the Bible was written in.I agree that there is a Father and a Son and that they are not the same person. I believe that together they are the God of gods and the Lord of lords which, btw, is a description of Jehovah.
Jesus is the Lord of lords.
For us there is one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ.
Deut 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.God bless!
Quote (jb2u @ Mar. 29 2013,06:55) Lightenup…
So you do not answer the questions that I asked and did not understand the use of “one”.The bride is many, but where is the word “one”?
Now we know “one” here is “one set” because we see the “we”.“That they may be one as we are one.
Do you see it? WE, so again, they are one set, NOT one God!WE though many, are “one” body in Christ.
jb2u,
The 'one' is understood and seen in the singular form of the Greek word for bride. The translators could have said 'one bride' and that would be acceptable because the word is in the singular form.I think that you are putting too much importance in pronouns. For instance, read this passage in Hosea 14 and notice how the pronouns for the same subject (Israel) change from plural to singular. So, my point is that you do not have a solid argument that God is one person because 'He' is used as a pronoun for God.
Hosea 14 KJV
1O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.2Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.
3Asshur shall not save us; we will not ride upon horses: neither will we say any more to the work of our hands, Ye are our gods: for in thee the fatherless findeth mercy.
A Promise of God's Blessing
4I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.
5I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon.
6His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree, and his smell as Lebanon.
Israel is meant by the pronouns 'them,' 'him,' 'he,' and 'his,' 'we,' and 'our.'
Quote (jb2u @ Mar. 29 2013,07:07) Lightenup…
So what is your interpretation when Jesus says that
His Father is the one true God?FYI, I keep “Coming back” because I'm the original poster of this thread. I do not ever mind the challenge, but that is not what this thread is about.
jb2u,
This thread is about finding a church that does not teach the trinity. I am challenging you as to why are you leaving the church and looking for another since I see the plurality in unity with the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.You asked:
Quote So what is your interpretation when Jesus says that
His Father is the one true God?I can see two possibilities as to why Jesus says that.
1. He is comparing His Father to the gods of the nations of the earth in which Jesus is walking among.
2. Jesus is not just God, the Son, but God/Man the Son. The Father is only true God, not true God/Man like Jesus.
In no way is Jesus teaching anybody that He is not a God nor that He is not a true God by the verse in John 17. He is affirming His Father as the only true God compared with all the other gods of the nations and that He and His Father must be both known for eternal salvation. IMO.
Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,23:51) Quote (david @ April 02 2013,10:17) Does it not seem to all, that true Christians around the world, should generally believe the same things?
David,They will come to learn the one true gospel. The true teachers of God will teach it. They are the good fish.
David,Correction
The true teachers will teach and live the true gospel.
Quote (Ed J @ April 02 2013,17:43) Quote (david @ April 02 2013,17:26) Quote This would of course result in great opposition and fault finding missions in the way that Jesus was subject to Question Ed.
You are living in the end of the 1st century. Lets say you are one of the apostles grandchildren. You are a Christian. At this time, lets say 20 sects have formed. (I can't remember the number, I have stats somewhere). Now,
What is your view of these sects? Are you strongly opposed to them? Do you find fault with them? Or, do you accept them? Remember what Jesus, Peter and Paul and John foretold. So, how would you view these sects, or the people in them?
This question is really to anyone.
Hi David,Isn't that what got Shaool (Saul) in trouble?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi EdSorry, what was your response?
Quote (t8 @ April 02 2013,18:34) Quote (david @ April 02 2013,18:13) Quote Scripture guides us and that is the yardstick And yet, different people look at the yardstick differently.
Some look at it so close they only see a tiny part of it that says: “believe on The Lord.”
Others chop the yardstick into a thousand pieces and re-arrange and pick out their favourite parts.
Others, mask out pieces of the yardstick, saying this is parable and that is literal
Still, some say the first part of the yard stick isn't worth our time, while others believe we should examine the whole stick.
Others bend the stick into distorted shapes.
****
because everyone peers through glasses labeled “confirmation bias,” it's hard to measure by a yardstick with so much information in it that can be twisted by our own minds, to meet our desires.
While there might be one yardstick, on this website for example, it is viewed in a hundred different ways, people arguing over it, saying “it is black,” while others say “it is white.”
And it is God who will commend or rebuke us.God has the last say.
This is it. Our life is in progress.
Then the review.
T8,
Does this mean you will stop explaining to people where and why they are wrong?Quote (t8 @ April 02 2013,21:29) Quote (david @ April 02 2013,18:46) Quote (Ed J @ April 02 2013,15:38) Quote (t8 @ April 02 2013,09:56) Joining a cult where everyone signs up to a set of doctrines and become one in agreement (unless they leave) is not the answer. The truth is not easy and like gold, it takes work to get it. We live in a world that is under the sway of the evil one so we are opposed from every side.
Paul even said that these times would come after he passed away. He warned people day and night with tears regarding these times and the deceivers and deception to come.
All we can do is remain humble, teachable, and trust in God. If we have selfish motives, then we will err and cause others to err as well.
Of those who are humble enough to be given the task of teaching the great truths of God, surely such would recognise others and work together to dispel lies and shine the true light. This would of course result in great opposition and fault finding missions in the way that Jesus was subject to.
Ain't that the truth.
Jesus found fault with those who did what he didn't approve of. See revelation where he speaks to the congregations.Wouldn't they have opposed the “oppressive wolves” that entered the flock, the “weeds,” those that told “false stories” and were “twisting the scriptures to their own destruction,” those that taught philosophies and doctrine of men, following the traditions of man, rather than the word of God? Wouldn't the earliest Christians have opposed the many sects that were forming?
In fact, Jesus warned against these, specifically naming some of them.The sect of nicholaus for example. It wasn't just: let them do their thing and we will do ours. No, it was: they are wrong and have gone off the straight path, avoid them, and their teachings.
Agreed. I only opened the possibility that there might be a sect or section of people who are isolated, that might develop a unique Christian culture, but still be part of the Body of Christ when contacted, rather than an exclusive sect.Sects that are exclusive usually get that way because of the unique teachings they hold to. Otherwise they would not see themselves as different and would be part of the Body of Christ.
Sect:A group of people with somewhat different religious beliefs (typically regarded as heretical) from those of a larger group to which they…
A group that has separated from an established church; a nonconformist church.Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,04:51) Quote (david @ April 02 2013,10:17) Does it not seem to all, that true Christians around the world, should generally believe the same things?
David,They will come to learn the one true gospel. The true teachers of God will teach it. They are the good fish.
Ok, then does it seem that the “true teachers” should all be teaching the same things?Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,15:58) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,23:51) Quote (david @ April 02 2013,10:17) Does it not seem to all, that true Christians around the world, should generally believe the same things?
David,They will come to learn the one true gospel. The true teachers of God will teach it. They are the good fish.
David,Correction
The true teachers will teach and live the true gospel.
Ok kerwin. I didn't see your correction until now. But my question remains the same:Does it not seem that the true teachers should be teaching the truth–that they should be teaching the same thing everywhere?
And, if there are people who are teaching the same things, what are those things?
Further, kerwin,
Suppose that the truth is: God is not a trinity.There may well be people teaching this all over the earth. But, do those people agree on, or teach other things the same as well? Or, is this the only thing that is important or central and everything else doesn't really matter? Believing in Jesus and not believing the trinity?
Quote (david @ April 03 2013,11:57) Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,15:58) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2013,23:51) Quote (david @ April 02 2013,10:17) Does it not seem to all, that true Christians around the world, should generally believe the same things?
David,They will come to learn the one true gospel. The true teachers of God will teach it. They are the good fish.
David,Correction
The true teachers will teach and live the true gospel.
Ok kerwin. I didn't see your correction until now. But my question remains the same:Does it not seem that the true teachers should be teaching the truth–that they should be teaching the same thing everywhere?
And, if there are people who are teaching the same things, what are those things?
davidQuote Does it not seem that the true teachers should be teaching the truth–that they should be teaching the same thing everywhere? like whom
7 day Adventist ,the JW,the born again ,ect;;;thy all teach the same thing in their churches ,if you do not comply with them then you are a rebel if you are part of them and reject their practice for not being in scriptures you will be disciplined or ejected ,
because the reputation of the men made organization takes first place,
this is were volume and money plays ,you should read the book ” the greatest salesman in the world ” by Og Mandino
Terrarica, that's not what I'm doing here.
How would you answer my question: does it seem to you that the “true teachers” kerwin speaks of should be teaching the same things? Or, would the true teachers teach different things, based on location, preference, opinion, tradition, etc?
Quote (Lightenup @ April 03 2013,12:59) I think that you are putting too much importance in pronouns. For instance, read this passage in Hosea 14 and notice how the pronouns for the same subject (Israel) change from plural to singular. So, my point is that you do not have a solid argument that God is one person because 'He' is used as a pronoun for God.
I will try to explain this again,It is NOT about the “pronouns”!! Yes, I AGREE that a plural group can be represented by a singular pronoun. I have ALWAYS agreed to that!!!
I do NOT say that GOD is one person because it says “He.” It is about the USE of the word “one.” Please, please understand that concept!! ONE, ONE, ONE…..IF you see the word “one” and you want to KNOW if it is talking about a set or a singular item, then you look at what pronoun is used.
If it is “we are one” then we are a unity.
If it is “he is one”, then he is a singular person.
This ONLY applies if there is a use of the word “one.”Again, in all of the examples you keep giving me, you are only “proving” that which I have never refuted!! You keep giving examples of “groups” that are represented by a singular pronoun. You then proceed to say, “see you are wrong.” The problem is…I NEVER said that a “plural group” can not be represented by a singular pronoun!!! And NO, there is not an implied use of the word “one.” This only applies to the actual USE of the word “one.” Otherwise, it does not need to be defined.
Quote (Lightenup @ April 03 2013,13:24) I can see two possibilities as to why Jesus says that. 1. He is comparing His Father to the gods of the nations of the earth in which Jesus is walking among.
2. Jesus is not just God, the Son, but God/Man the Son. The Father is only true God, not true God/Man like Jesus.
In no way is Jesus teaching anybody that He is not a God nor that He is not a true God by the verse in John 17. He is affirming His Father as the only true God compared with all the other gods of the nations and that He and His Father must be both known for eternal salvation. IMO.
Well, I was going to say, “even if Jesus, Himself, told you that He was not the one true God, you still would not believe it”, but He did tell you that and you still don't believe it!!!I really do not know what else to tell you. God knew what would happen. He warned us about following the doctrine of men.
John 7:16-18
Ephesians 4:14
1 Timothy 6:3-5
to name a few!!You claim to agree with the Nicene Creed, which IS a doctrine of man!!!
God did not give us the Bible so that other people could interpret the scriptures and tell us about God. He gave us the Bible so that we may know Him and Jesus, whom he sent!!
Quote (david @ April 03 2013,12:11) Terrarica, that's not what I'm doing here. How would you answer my question: does it seem to you that the “true teachers” kerwin speaks of should be teaching the same things? Or, would the true teachers teach different things, based on location, preference, opinion, tradition, etc?
DavidYes I will answer you :
First the only truth we have is the scriptures,so all or any that says to follow the truth would do it in according to the scriptures truth right
YesNow we have to look at why the truth to some may not be the same ;
1) personal interest
2) greed ,
3) the love of self gloryso looking at what it takes to be true in truth before God almighty,it would take :self sacrifice ,guiding yourself by humility to make the glory of God and his son more important than your own ,the glory of them being the full truth,
Also accepting that we are nothing ,and that the scriptures is all we have to become closer to our creator,and we should not try to show others in our ego that we are something that they are not ,because we all receive from God according to our devotion to him .
The teachers should understand that he does not own the spirit of truth that comes from God through Christ ,and so any disciples he make it as to be made for God s glory not his own,
If I miss something ,remind me ,
Quote (Lightenup @ April 03 2013,13:24) jb2u,
This thread is about finding a church that does not teach the trinity. I am challenging you as to why are you leaving the church and looking for another since I see the plurality in unity with the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.
I know what the thread is about, seeing how I started it and all.The reason why I would not go to a church where I disagree with their doctrine is because God told me not to!!!
2 John 1:9-11
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Christ's doctrine is pretty clear I think. Of which, the most basic would include….
1) That His Father, GOD, is the one true GOD.2) That He sent His only begotten SON to die for our sins. That His Son died and was resurrected so that we may have everlasting life.
3) Although saved by faith…faith without works is dead!!!
I am guessing that we just will not see this the same. I find it sad, but I understand that not all people will know the truth. People will recognize the Lord, but He will say, “I know you not whence ye are.” Luke 13:25
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