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- jb2u,May wrote:
[/quote]
Quote My problem is that you stated the Apostles were angels. That is NOT in scripture!!! Jb2u,
It is in scripture!
But it is not word to word like you expect!
There are tons of God's hidden things in scripture, and God hidden things are ALL SPIRITUAL, AND IF YOU KEEP RELYING ONLY ON WORDS YOU WILL BE CONFUSED, WE ALL MUST SEARCH GOD’S WORDS WHICH ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE, and only those who KNOCK, SEARCH, ASKS,AND BELIEVE IN THE TRUTH! WOULD BE ABLE TO DISCERN IT!
James 1:5But if any of you want wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men abundantly, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea, which is moved and carried about by the wind. 7Therefore let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8A double minded man is inconstant in all his ways.
You never commented anything regarding Jacob's ladder!
You never commented regarding the generation of heaven!
Genesis 1:4:25 Adam also knew his wife again: and she brought forth a son, and called his name Seth, saying:
And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begot a son to his own image and likeness, and called his name Seth.
GOD HATH GIVEN ME ANOTHER SEED, FOR ABEL WHOM CAIN SLEW.
WHAT IS THE MEANING ANOTHER SEED FOR ABEL?
WHY FOR ABEL? WHY NOT JUST: ANOTHER SEED,?
OR
ANOTHER SEED LIKE CAIN AND ABEL?DID YOU REALIZE THAT EVE WAS 130 YEARS WHEN SHE HAD SETH?
DOESN'T THAT GIVE YOU SOME DISCERNMENT THAT THE 130 YEARS IS A PARTICULAR SIGN THAT SETH WAS THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
John 4: Do you not say, There are yet four months, and then the harvest cometh? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes, and see the countries; for they are white already to harvest.
HOW ARE THEY WHITE ALREADY, OBVIOUS THE SOWER, AND THE REAPER DID THE WORK!
36And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life everlasting: that both he that soweth, and he that reapeth, may rejoice together. 37For in this is the saying true: That it is one man that soweth, and it is another that reapeth.
SO BOTH THE SON’S SPIRIT, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN DID THE WORK , PLUS THE FATHER’S POWER FROM HEAVEN!
38I have sent you to reap that in which you did not labour: others have laboured, and you have entered into their labours
[/b]WHO ARE THE OTHERS ON EARTH WORKING THEN
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,21:49) Quote (terraricca @ May 20 2013,20:18) Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,08:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 20 2013,05:37) Quote (kerwin @ May 19 2013,14:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 20 2013,00:55) Oh, and you must also explain how your theory works in light of the fact that, in John 3, Jesus mentioned only “flesh” – not “flesh and blood”, or “flesh and bone”.
Mike,Offhand I venture that Jesus is speaking in a spiritual sense as he is teaching about the rebirth of the spirit and not the resurrection. I am considering looking into it some more.
In what scriptural instance does a “spirit” need to be “reborn”?
Mike,Titus 3:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;Colossians 3:10
King James Version (KJV)10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
kerwinso you now understand that it is not by being dip in water that we are saved
but by being dipped in the knowledge of the son of God ,and the application of his words ,and so glorify God's only son ,Jesus Christ
T,I know that God saves.
I know that should God tell a sick man to go and dunk in the river Jordon seven times and I will save you then to be saved the man would do just that.
I know that is is not the water that saves the sick man from his disease but God.
KerwinNamaan the gentile that God saved from his sickness he did it by showing that the only way to be saved is by doing the way God tells you ,
and I believe you are not ready to do just that ,
jb2u,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote I took issue with you saying that the apostles were angels. Knowing that they denied Christ, Jb2u,
THAT IS IRRELEVANT!
NOW READ HOW MANY TIMES JESUS ASSERTED REGARDING THE ORIGIN OF THE APPOSTLES!
COUNT THEM AND TELL BE WHY ALL THAT INSISTENCE TO REPEAT SUCH STATEMENT!
John 20:17 :6 I have manifested thy name to the men
(1) WHOM YOU HAST GIVEN ME OUT OF THE WORLD
THEREFORE FROM HEAVEN!
(2) THINE THEY WERE, AND TO ME THOU GAVEST THEM;
Yours they were, SO THEY WERE THE FATHER’S THEREFORE , SPIRITS ANGELS NO? AND THEY WERE GIVEN TO JESUS, OBVIOUS CARNAL BEINGS. NO?
and they have kept thy word.
Now they have known, that all things which thou hast given me, are from thee: 8Because the words which thou gavest me, I have given to them; and they have received them, and have known in very deed that I came out from thee, (NOT CREATED)and they have believed that thou didst send me.
IN THE ABOVE JESUS ASSERRTED THAT HIS MISSION IS SUCCESS, REGARDING HIS MEN, SINCE THEY ACCEPTED ALL WHAT HE GAVE THEM,AND ALSO REGARDING HIS IDENTITY!
JESUS ABOVE MADE US AWARE THAT IT WAS NOT THAT EASY TO ESTABLISH THE FATHER'S WORK, NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT THEY WERE SENT BY THE FATHER!
SO GOD GIVES TOTAL FREEDOM TO ALL HIS CREATURES. THEREFORE, THEY WERE NOT AWARE WHOM THEY WERE!
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them
OK! IT IS CONFIRMED; THEY ARE IN FULL FREEDOM! IF IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SO, IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FARE, SO THEY HAD TO BE TESTED REGARDING THEIR LOVE TO GOD!
(3) [/B]whom thou hast given me: because they are thine:[/B]
AGAIN; THEY ARE YOURS! ANGELS. NO?
10And all my things are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
THIS IS QUITE A LIGHT!
JESUS REMAINED WITHIN CONTEXT, KEPT ON STRESSING AND GAVE US MORE TRUTH!
ALL MY THINGS HUMAN CARNAL ATTRIBUTES ARE YOURS!
AND YOURS GOD'S SPIRITUAL ATTRIBUTES ARE MINE
DOESN'T IT MEAN THAT ALL SPIRITUAL CREATURES , THE FATHER’SWOULD EVENTUALLY ACQUIRE THE FLESH BODY, AND ALL FLESH CREATURES JESUS’ THE OWNER OF ALL FLESH, GOD OF ALL FLESH ACQUIRE THE SPIRITUAL BODY, THROUGH THE PROCESS OF ETERNAL LIFE, AND UNIFY THEMSELVES IN ONE BODY!
LIKE HIM AND THEY’LL BE IN HIM, AND HE IN THEM, LIKE THE FATHER IS IN THE SON, AND THE SON IN THE FATHER, AND THEY ALL BE ONE!11And now I am not in the world,
NOTICE THE PRESENT TENSE! JESUS CONFIRMED THIS ALREADY;IN THE PREVIOUS CHAPTER, AND IN THE 13TH .THAT HE IS ALREADY GLORIFIED ALTHOUGH HE STILL HAVE TO DIE; DOESN'T IT MEAN THAT HIS BODY WAS IN THE STATE OF ITS SPIRITUAL PROCESS? THEREFORE NOT IN THE CONDITION OF WORLD!
and these are in the world, NOTICE HE COMPARED HIMSELF WITH HIS MEN TO MAKE US AWARE ABOUT HIS CONDITION and I come to thee. CLEAR NO! HE IS NOT IN THE CONDITION IN RESPECT OF THE WORLD, BUT THEY ARE!
Holy Father, keep them in thy name
(4) whom thou has given me; that they may be one, as we also are.OBVIOUS BECAUSE THEY WILL EVENTUALLY UNIFY BOTH THEIR SOUL AND FLESH BODY INTO ONE THESE ARE THE FIRSTFRUITS CHRIST’S! THEREFORE NOT ORDINARY BELIEVERS LIKE WE ARE! BUT THE FATHER’S ANGELS
12While I was with them, I kept them in thy name.
(5)Those whom thou gavest me have I kept; and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture may be fulfilled.
14 I have given them thy word, and the world hath hated them,
(6) because they are not of the world; as I also am not of the world.
THIS TIME JESUS COMPARED HIS MEN WITH HIMSELF, TO ASSERT THAT THEY WERE NOT ORDINARY BELIEVERS,BUT THEY ARE THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT THE FATHER’S ANGELS!
15 I pray not that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from evil.
IT IS A DIFFICULT TASK IN THIS WORLD TO AVOID EVIL, NO DOUBT!notwithstanding the fact that they are the Father's property, SO THE FATHER GIVES TOTAL FREEDOM TO HIS CREATURES NO MATTER WHAT, HE IS JUST , AND ALL HIS CREATURES MUST JUSTIFY THEMSELVES THAT THEY REALLY LOVE GOD! EVEN IF GOD HAD TEMPORARY COMPLETELY ISOLATED THEM FROM HIM,
EVEN JESUS WAS in order to be tempted!
Luke 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the spirit, into Galilee,……………. SO HE WAS NOT
IN THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHEN HE WAS TEMPTED, THE REASON THAT SATAN WAS SCEPTIC WHETHER HE WAS OR NOT THE MESSIAH!(7)16They are not of the world, as I also am not of the world.
AGAIN: COMPARISON WITH HIMSELF ! SEVEN TIMES IN THIS CHAPTER JESUS DECLARED THAT THE APPOSTLES ARE GOD’S SPIRIT WISE
WHAT ELSE THEY WERE IF NOT ANGELS! WE ARE THE DEVIL’S SPIRIT WISE! ACCORDING TO PETER WE WERE NOT EVEN A PEOPLE
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote The Apostles were different men in deed AFTER they saw the resurrection of Christ!! jB2U,
TO CONCLUDE :
AND AS I SAID; SINCE GOD GIVE TOTAL FREEDOM TO HIS CREATURES TO JUSTIFY THEMSELVES THAT THEY IN REALITY LOVE GOD, THEY WILL NOT BE AWARE OF IT UNTILL THE APPROPRIATE TIME! PENTECOST
REFALECT:
Hebrews 1: And as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: but thou art the selfsame, and thy years shall not fail.
13But to which of the angels said he at any time: Sit on my right hand, until I make thy enemies thy footstool?
SO ALTHOUGH THE ANGELS ALSO WENT THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS, LIKE JESUS THROUGH CREATION, ONLY HE REMAINED WITH THE SAME FLESH BODY, OBVIOUS;
THE WORD MADE FLESH, GOD IN FLESH!
14Are they not all ministering spirits, SENT to minister for them, who shall receive the inheritance of salvation
THIS IS ALSO INTERESTING:
ALL MINISTERING SPIRITS; THE GOOD SPIRITS ,ANGELS,THE GENERATION OF HEAVEN, ARE SENT INTO THE WORLD TO MINISTER FOR BELIEVERS! NO?
JESUS SAID TO THE PHARISEES : YOUR FATHER IS THE DEVIL!
SO SATAN ALSO SENDS HIS! AFTER ALL IT IS HIS KINGDOM!
SO ORDINARY EARTHLY MEN WHO SHALL RECEIVE THE INHERITANCE OF SALVATION WERE USELESS IN THE INTRODUCTION OF GOD’S KINGDOM,
REFLECT:
13 :10 And his disciples came and said to him: Why speakest thou to them in parables?
11Who answered and said to them: Because to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven: but to them it is not given.
DISTINCTION
SO THEY WERE NOT FROM THE FATHER, ANGELS, THEY WERE OF EARTH!
10 Therefore do I speak to them in parables: because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE WHO INHERIT SALVATION, AND THOSE WHO WERE SENTPURPOSELY FROM THE FATHER !
THERE'S MORE IN SRIPTURES TO MAKE US AWARE THAT ALL ANGELS MUST COME TO EARTH PURPOSELY IN ORDER TO LIVE A HOLY LIFE AND WE IMITATE THEM!
MARK 4:8 And some fell upon good ground; and brought forth fruit that grew up, and increased and yielded, one thirty, another sixty, and another a hundred. 9And he said: He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ May 21 2013,07:27) Ed wrote:[/quote]
Quote 100% Man + 100% God equals a 200% God/Man – which is a logic fallacy. Edj,
WITH EVERY RESPECT,
WHAT WILL ONE EXPECT FROM A CORRUPTED MIND!
You are concluding that when IN:
Luke 1:35 And the angel answering, said to her:
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee.
IT MEANS SIMPLY 50%?
listen to this now!
100% from the Father spirit
100% from the Holy Ghost soul
100 % from Mary flesh EX SON'S SPIRIT THROUGH CREATION
So THAT for me is the appropriate WORD WAS MADE FLESH, THE TRIUNE GOD IN FLESH
IF NOT EVEN HUMANS ARE 50% SINCE THEY POSSESS A COMPLETE SOUL, THROUGH THE SPERM
AND A COMPLE BODY FROM BOTH PARENTS!
HOW ON EARTH THE WORD, WHO CREATED ALL THE ENTIRE CREATION, IS 50% and 50%
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Now you got 300%, another logic fallacy.Quote (kerwin @ May 19 2013,13:31) Quote (t8 @ May 19 2013,04:15) Quote (carmel @ May 19 2013,11:07) Jesus owns the flesh body eternally!
But what do you say about these facts that are taught in scripture?1) It is written that our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his.
2) It is written that there is a physical body and then a spiritual and that the physical is first.
T8,That is a poor translation. It weakens your argument to use it.
Here is what Strong's says:
Quote psuchikos: natural, of the soul or mind
Original Word: ψυχικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: psuchikos
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khee-kos')
Short Definition: animal, natural, sensuous
Definition: animal, natural, sensuous.and
Quote 5591 psyxikós (an adjective, derived from 5590 /psyxḗ, “soul, natural identity”) – properly, soulish, i.e. what is natural, as it relates to physical (tangible) life alone (i.e. apart from God's inworking of faith). 5591 /psyxikós (“natural”) typically describes the natural (“lower”) aspect of humanity, i.e. behavior that is “more of earth (carnality) than heaven.” 5591 (psyxikós) then sometimes stands in contrast to 4152 /pneumatikós (“spiritual”) – the higher, spiritual aspect of humanity that develops through faith (4102 /pístis).
and
Quote Word Origin
from psuché
Definition
natural, of the soul or mind
NASB Translation
natural (5), worldly-minded (1).There is no physical there.
Weakens my point?You ignore that it says BODY.
And a natural body works fine, even though our natural bodies are physical and supernatural are spiritual.
First the natural and then the spiritual.
There you have it. 2 bodies.
Quote (t8 @ May 21 2013,13:22) Quote (kerwin @ May 19 2013,13:31) Quote (t8 @ May 19 2013,04:15) Quote (carmel @ May 19 2013,11:07) Jesus owns the flesh body eternally!
But what do you say about these facts that are taught in scripture?1) It is written that our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his.
2) It is written that there is a physical body and then a spiritual and that the physical is first.
T8,That is a poor translation. It weakens your argument to use it.
Here is what Strong's says:
Quote psuchikos: natural, of the soul or mind
Original Word: ψυχικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: psuchikos
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khee-kos')
Short Definition: animal, natural, sensuous
Definition: animal, natural, sensuous.and
Quote 5591 psyxikós (an adjective, derived from 5590 /psyxḗ, “soul, natural identity”) – properly, soulish, i.e. what is natural, as it relates to physical (tangible) life alone (i.e. apart from God's inworking of faith). 5591 /psyxikós (“natural”) typically describes the natural (“lower”) aspect of humanity, i.e. behavior that is “more of earth (carnality) than heaven.” 5591 (psyxikós) then sometimes stands in contrast to 4152 /pneumatikós (“spiritual”) – the higher, spiritual aspect of humanity that develops through faith (4102 /pístis).
and
Quote Word Origin
from psuché
Definition
natural, of the soul or mind
NASB Translation
natural (5), worldly-minded (1).There is no physical there.
Weakens my point?You ignore that it says BODY.
And a natural body works fine, even though our natural bodies are physical and supernatural are spiritual.
First the natural and then the spiritual.
There you have it. 2 bodies.
T8,As you say there are two bodies one is natural in a worldly kind of way and the other is spiritual.
Quote Jhn 16:16 ¶ A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. Marty,
As you can read hereunder, and in the ABOVE scripture, the words :I GO hupago
which definitely means that Jesus DEPARTED TO THE FATHER!
hupagó:
Short Definition: I go away, depart
Definition: I go away, depart, begone, die.John 20: 17Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me, for I am not yet ascended to……
FROM THE OTHER HAND:
“ASCEND TO” IS A COMPLETE DIFFERENT COMPLEX PHRASE!
SO, IF JOHN WANTED TO BE CLEAR,THAT JESUS DEPARTED TO HIS FATHER, HE WOULD HAVE NEVER USED PURPOSELY THE PHRASE ASCEND TO, IF NOT FOR ALL THOSE WHO ARE DEDICATED AND CHEW EVERY WORD IN SCRIPTURE IN ORDER TO DISCOVER THE TRUTH!
SO, SINCE YOU HAVE ALREADY ACCEPTED THAT THE WORD ASCEND COULD MEAN : go up TO A SUPERIOR STATE.
THE TRUTH IS THAT:
Jesus, hours after his glorification in his FLESH BODY ONLY, therefore acquired a perfect non mortal GOD’S ATTRIBUTE SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY, he also acquired THE FULL GLORY OF GOD AS SOON AS THE HOLY SPIRIT, JESUS’ SOUL, ALREADY GLORIFIED IN FLESH BODY JESUS’ HUMAN ATTRIBUTE ended his work in hell, and united eternally with Jesus glorified body, and became, THE ONLY TRUE GOD IN BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH BODY ETERNALLY!
Now reflect on this scripture:
Yet that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; afterwards that which is spiritual.
Paul in the above scripture made us aware that when WE RESURRECT WE DO SO IN A PERFECT NON MORTAL FLESH BODY FIRST, THEN WE GLORIFY ALSO IN THE SPIRIT THEREFORE WE WILL BE LIKE JESUS, BOTH VISIBLE,AND NON VISIBLE !So it is quite clear that John used the phrase ascend to purposely for all those who love Go in the truth, and through discovering its actual definition, would be aware of God’s wisdom regarding their redemption, and eternal life!
SO THE PHRASE “ASCEND TO” DEFINITELY MEANS:
ASCEND TO the highest state of God THE FATHER
ALSO IT IS IRRELEVANT WHETHER JESUS , AFTER HE ASCENDED IN HIS FATHER’S HIGH STATE,WENT UP TO HEAVEN OR NOT, PRESUMABLY HE DID ALSO, OBVIOUS SINCE HE POSESSED THAT KIND OF POWER FIRST
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Ed wrote:[/quote]
Quote Now you got 300%, another logic fallacy Edj
THERE'S NO LOGIC FOR GOD'S WORK!
IT IS YOU WHO ARE ESTABLISHING FALLACIES
BECAUSE REGARDING GOD'S THINGS: WE ARE OPPOSITE TO HIM!
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.
10And as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and return no more thither, but soak the earth, and water it, and make it to spring, and give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.
here is more:
JESUS HAD HIS FATHER'S SPIRIT 100%
JESUS HAD HIS SOUL THE HOLY SPIRIT 100%
JESUS HAD HIS BODY MARY'S FLESH 100% HIS EX
SPIRITJESUS HAD SATAN'S SPIRIT WITHIN HIS SOUL 100%
THE ABOVE WHILE JESUS WAS ON EARTH FROM BIRTH TO BAPTIZM!
NOW LISTEN TO THIS:
BEFORE JESUS THE WORD THE TRIUNE GOD ,WAS BORN AS THE WORD MADE FLESH,
HE WAS IN FULL; THEREFORE THE FATHER'S SPIRIT WITHIN THE HOLY SPIRIT,AND BOTH OF THEM WITHIN THE SON'S SPIRIT, THE TRIUNE GOD AS A MEDIATOR/CEATOR IN ORDER TO CREATE OUR WORLD, THROUGH DARKNESS AS:
GOD OF THE WORLD
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (jb2u @ May 20 2013,07:04) My problem is that you stated the Apostles were angels. That is NOT in scripture!!!
Certainly they were not Heavenly Angels JB2U, but men are called angels too because it is the word for 'messenger'. Both John and Jesus was called angels in an Old Testament prophecy and so Malachi means angel and he was the Lord's messenger in his time. The prophets were angels/messengers, but not heavenly ones.This opens up the possibility that the Lord's Angel as described in the Old Testament is Jesus. That is if you take the meaning Messenger. The Lord's Messenger certainly stands out from the other angels in the OT. Of course it might also be a being of lower rank too. But the Lord's Angel is not mentioned while Christ was on Earth as far as I know. Anyway I diverge, but thought I would show you this.
Quote (carmel @ May 22 2013,08:50) Edj JESUS HAD HIS FATHER'S SPIRIT 100%
JESUS HAD HIS SOUL THE HOLY SPIRIT 100%
JESUS HAD HIS BODY MARY'S FLESH 100% HIS EX
SPIRITJESUS HAD SATAN'S SPIRIT WITHIN HIS SOUL 100%
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Hi Charles,I see you managed to work your way towards “A Pattern of FIVE”; please take note T8.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ May 22 2013,09:10) Quote (jb2u @ May 20 2013,07:04) My problem is that you stated the Apostles were angels. That is NOT in scripture!!!
Certainly they were not Heavenly Angels JB2U, but men are called angels too because it is the word for 'messenger'. Both John and Jesus was called angels in an Old Testament prophecy and so Malachi means angel and he was the Lord's messenger in his time. The prophets were angels/messengers, but not heavenly ones.This opens up the possibility that the Lord's Angel as described in the Old Testament is Jesus. That is if you take the meaning Messenger. The Lord's Messenger certainly stands out from the other angels in the OT. Of course it might also be a being of lower rank too. But the Lord's Angel is not mentioned while Christ was on Earth as far as I know. Anyway I diverge, but thought I would show you this.
Although I know that angel also means “messenger”, I also know that Charles is talking about heavenly angels!!If he is not saying that the Apostles were heavenly angels then I will agree that they were messengers!!
Quote (carmel @ May 21 2013,07:33) jb2u,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote My problem is that you stated the Apostles were angels. That is NOT in scripture!!! Jb2u,
It is in scripture!
But it is not word to word like you expect!
There are tons of God's hidden things in scripture, and God hidden things are ALL SPIRITUAL, AND IF YOU KEEP RELYING ONLY ON WORDS YOU WILL BE CONFUSED, WE ALL MUST SEARCH GOD’S WORDS WHICH ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE, and only those who KNOCK, SEARCH, ASKS,AND BELIEVE IN THE TRUTH! WOULD BE ABLE TO DISCERN IT!
James 1:5But if any of you want wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men abundantly, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea, which is moved and carried about by the wind. 7Therefore let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8A double minded man is inconstant in all his ways.
………………
Peace and love in JesusCharles
So, your first mistake is in your belief that I have NOT searched God's word's, knocked, asked, and believed in the truth.And if YOU believe the scripture that you have quoted, and I have in fact asked and searched God's wisdom of the scripture with the purest heart…then it has been granted me!!! Right???
Or, are YOU, Charles, the decider of what is truth? Are YOU, the one with all the secrets and wisdom, as I have never met anyone else with your beliefs?
Quote (carmel @ May 21 2013,08:19) jb2u,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote I took issue with you saying that the apostles were angels. Knowing that they denied Christ, Jb2u,
THAT IS IRRELEVANT!
…………….
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
It is not irrelevant!! You want to claim that the apostles were angels, but what about the evil spirits? They recognized Jesus as the Son of God right away!! The apostles, even in spite of seeing first hand many miracles, still were not fully convinced until after the resurrection!! They did not even understand that He would be resurrected on the third day even though He told them that He would!! Think about it!!Ed wrote:[/quote]
Quote I see you managed to work your way towards “A Pattern of FIVE”; please take note T8. Edj,
TO CLARIFY EVEN MORE:
AS I SAID:
THE FATHER
AND THE HOLY SPIRIT
BOTH IN:
THE SON'S SPIRIT THEREFORE A TRIUNE GOD AS THE WORD
NOW THIS WORD CREATED OUR CREATION THROUGH DARKNESS, SATAN'S SPIRIT THE GENERATIONS OF EARTH! THE NEGATIVE SIDE OF CREATION
AND ALSO IN THE SAME INSTANT:
THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT:
THE GENERATIONS OF HEAVEN! THE HEAVENLY SPIRITS, WE CALL THEM ANGELS: THE POSSITIVE SIDE OF CREATION
NOW MY POINT :
THE WORD THE TRIUNE GOD AS I SAID IN DARKNESS, SATAN, BECAME 4 SPIRITS IN ONE ! THE GOD OF THE WORLD! SO THE GOD OF THE WORLD IN THE TRUTH WAS THE TRIUNE GOD! GOD ALMIGHTY! FUNCTIONING AS THE WORD
SO OUR WORLD WAS CREATED THROUGH A 4 SPIRIT PROCESS.
THAT 4 SPIRIT PROCESS IS REPRESENTD IN THE 4 EVANGELISTS, IN THEIR SYMBOLS OF: LION, BULL, EAGLE, AND MAN/ANGEL!
SO OUR WORLD WAS IN TOTAL DARKNESS , COMPLETE CHAOS ,ALL SATAN’S! GENESIS 1:2!
BUT AS SOON AS THE FIRST EVER CREATURE WAS ESTABLISHED, THE PREADAMITE, HE BECAME A BEAST CARRYING 4 SPIRITS WITHIN,
THEREFORE 5 ELEMENTS:
ONE EVIL AS FLESH. US!
ONE EVIL AS SPIRIT. US!
AND THE WORD THE TRIUNE GOD! MEDIATOR /CREATOR! US! THE SOUL TO BE!
SO THE BEAST'S BODY WAS THE DEVIL HIMSELF AS FLESH BEING: GOD OF THE WORLD IN FLESH! GOD ALMIGHTY AS AN EVIL FLESH BEING, ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM ,AND ALL FOR HIM!
HE HUMBLED HIMSELF, HE WAS A TREASURE HIDDEN IN A FIELD
THIS BEAST LIKE EVIL CREATURE, WAS WITHOUT A SOUL LIKE OURS, SIMPLY WITHOUT AN AWARENESS OF HIS OWN EXISTENCE! DEAD SOUL!
SO THE WORD BECAME THE FIRSBORN OF THE FIRST EVER BEAST LIKE EVIL CREATURE!
BUT SATAN BELIEVED THAT HE CREATED AND OWNED THAT CREATURE!
SO ACTUALLY THIS CREATURE WAS 5 SPIRITS, BUT ONE OF THEM WAS THE WORST EVER EVIL FLESH CREATURE IN THE ENTIRE CREATION EVER EXISTED! THE REASON THAT HE BECAME MATERIAL!
THOSE FIVE ELEMENTS ARE REPRESENTED IN OUR SENSES.
WHICH EVE, SATAN’S REPRESENTATIVE, SYMBOLICALLY MATTER, FLESH, MADE USED OF AND TOOK OF THE FRUIT!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
jb2u,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote So, your first mistake is in your belief that I have NOT searched God's word's, knocked, asked, and believed in the truth. t8,
YOU MADE ME CONCLUDE SO!
FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT I POSTED AT LEAST 3 POSTS, AND YOU SIMPLY IGNORED THEM AND GAVE YOUR OPINION WITHOUT CONTRADICT ME REGARDING MY POINTS IN ORDER TO PROOF THAT YOU DID SO!
Quote Or, are YOU, Charles, the decider of what is truth? Are YOU, the one with all the secrets and wisdom, as I have never met anyone else with your beliefs? NO I AM SURE THERE ARE MANY LIKE ME, BUT IT SEEMS THAT YOU NEVER READ AS MUCH AS I READ.
GOD SENT HIS WORDS NOT IN SCRIPTURES ONLY!
GOD STILL SPEAKS UP TO THIS THEY TO HIS CREATURES.
SIMPLY THROUGH THEIR OWN HEART!
OK LET'S SEE:
I AM GOING TO REPOST WHAT YOU IGNORED IN ORDER TO CONFIRM THAT YOUR WISDOM IS OF GOD,LIKE MINE, NOT OF THE WORLD and contradict me specifically through scriptures!
HERE WE GO!
You never commented anything regarding Jacob's ladder!
You never commented regarding the generation of heaven!
Genesis 1:4:25 Adam also knew his wife again: and she brought forth a son, and called his name Seth, saying:
And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begot a son to his own image and likeness, and called his name Seth.
GOD HATH GIVEN ME ANOTHER SEED, FOR ABEL WHOM CAIN SLEW.
WHAT IS THE MEANING ANOTHER SEED FOR ABEL?
WHY FOR ABEL? WHY NOT JUST: ANOTHER SEED,?
OR
ANOTHER SEED LIKE CAIN AND ABEL?DID YOU REALIZE THAT EVE WAS 130 YEARS WHEN SHE HAD SETH?
DOESN'T THAT GIVE YOU SOME DISCERNMENT THAT THE 130 YEARS IS A PARTICULAR SIGN THAT SETH WAS THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
John 4:35 ………….. for they are white already to harvest.
HOW ARE THEY WHITE ALREADY, OBVIOUS THE SOWER, AND THE REAPERDID THE WORK!
36 that both he that soweth, and he that reapeth, may rejoice together.
NOW READ HOW MANY TIMES JESUS ASSERTED REGARDING THE ORIGIN OF THE APPOSTLES!
COUNT THEM AND TELL ME WHY ALL THAT INSISTENCE TO REPEAT SUCH STATEMENT!
(1) WHOM YOU HAST GIVEN ME OUT OF THE WORLD
(2) THINE THEY WERE, AND TO ME THOU GAVEST THEM;
(3) whom thou hast given me: because they are thine:
(4) whom thou has given me; that they may be one, as we also are.
(5)Those whom thou gavest me have I kept; and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture may be fulfilled.
(6) because they are not of the world; as I also am not of the world.
(7)16They are not of the world, as I also am not of the world.
AND AS I SAID; SINCE GOD GIVE TOTAL FREEDOM TO HIS CREATURES TO JUSTIFY THEMSELVES THAT THEY IN REALITY LOVE GOD, THEY WILL NOT BE AWARE OF IT UNTILL THE APPROPRIATE TIME! PENTECOST
NOW REFLECT:
John 16:12 I have yet many things to say to you: but you cannot bear them now. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL TRUTH!……………
YES I AM CONVINCED THAT THE ENTIRE HEAVENLY HOSTS, SINCE GOD HIMSELF CAME DOWN TO EARTH IN JESUS CHRIST,WOULD EVENTUALLY ACQUIRE THE FLESH BODY THROUGH THE SAME SYSTEM WHICH WE TOOK, IN ORDER TO DEMONSTRATE GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS, TO JUSTIFY THEMSELVES THAT THEY REALLY LOVE GOD, AND BE AN EXAMPLE TO US !
I GAVE SUFFICIENT SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT MY BELIEFE. NO ONE POSTED ANY SCRIPTURE WHICH SUPPORT THAT ANGELS WOULD NEVER BECOME HUMANS LIKE US!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
jb2u,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote They did not even understand that He would be resurrected on the third day even though He told them that He would!! Think about it!! t8,
That is irrelevant!
ALL THE DEVILS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SATAN HIMSELF,RECOGNIZED JESUS. THIS SINCE GOD WANTED SO!
HE BLINDED HIM!
SO IF GOD SIMPLY LEAVE THEM IN TOTAL FREEDOM, WITHOUT ANY INFLUENCE FROM HIM, THEY WOULD ACT AS COMMON HUMANS!
THE FACT THAT JESUS MADE IT CLEAR TO THEM :
THAT HE CHOSE THEM, THEREFROE HE KNEW WHOM THEY WERE, LIKE HE EMPHASIZED IT IN ALL JOHN 20:17!
HE ALSO ASSERTED THAT COMMON MEN, WERE NOT TO BE SELECTED IN THE INTRODUCTION OF GOD'S KINGDOM,SINCE SATAN MADE THEIR HEART OF STONE, AND THEY SEE BUT NOT PERCEIVE, AND THEY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, SO THEY WOULD NOT BE CONVERTED! THE REASON THAT HE SPOKE TO THEM IN PARABLES! SO THE APPOSTLES MUST HAVE BEEN FOR SURE ANGELS'SPIRIT WITHIN HUMANS, THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT'S WORK!
ALSO THE FACT THAT JESUS CONFIRMED TO NATHANIEL :
John 1:47 And he saith to him: Amen, amen I say to you, you shall see the heaven opened, and the angels of God ASCENDING AND DESCENDING UPON THE SON OF MAN!
the above is the replica of JACOB'S LADDER!
WHICH MEANS THAT THROUGH THE PROCESS OF THE WORD ANGELS WILL COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN AND RETURN TO HEAVEN!
AND WHAT ABOUT PAUL'S STATEMENT, THAT ALL SPIRIT WERE SENT TO MINISTER FOR THOSE TO BE REDEEMED!
SO THE APPOSTLES WERE NOT CONSIDERRED TO BE REDEEMED, SINCE THEY WERE FROM THE FATHER, ANGELS!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ May 23 2013,07:08) jb2u,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote So, your first mistake is in your belief that I have NOT searched God's word's, knocked, asked, and believed in the truth. t8,
YOU MADE ME CONCLUDE SO!
FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT I POSTED AT LEAST 3 POSTS, AND YOU SIMPLY IGNORED THEM AND GAVE YOUR OPINION WITHOUT CONTRADICT ME REGARDING MY POINTS IN ORDER TO PROOF THAT YOU DID SO!
Quote Or, are YOU, Charles, the decider of what is truth? Are YOU, the one with all the secrets and wisdom, as I have never met anyone else with your beliefs? NO I AM SURE THERE ARE MANY LIKE ME, BUT IT SEEMS THAT YOU NEVER READ AS MUCH AS I READ.
GOD SENT HIS WORDS NOT IN SCRIPTURES ONLY!
GOD STILL SPEAKS UP TO THIS THEY TO HIS CREATURES.
SIMPLY THROUGH THEIR OWN HEART!
OK LET'S SEE:
I AM GOING TO REPOST WHAT YOU IGNORED IN ORDER TO CONFIRM THAT YOUR WISDOM IS OF GOD,LIKE MINE, NOT OF THE WORLD and contradict me specifically through scriptures!
HERE WE GO!
You never commented anything regarding Jacob's ladder!
You never commented regarding the generation of heaven!
Genesis 1:4:25 Adam also knew his wife again: and she brought forth a son, and called his name Seth, saying:
And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begot a son to his own image and likeness, and called his name Seth.
GOD HATH GIVEN ME ANOTHER SEED, FOR ABEL WHOM CAIN SLEW.
WHAT IS THE MEANING ANOTHER SEED FOR ABEL?
WHY FOR ABEL? WHY NOT JUST: ANOTHER SEED,?
OR
ANOTHER SEED LIKE CAIN AND ABEL?DID YOU REALIZE THAT EVE WAS 130 YEARS WHEN SHE HAD SETH?
DOESN'T THAT GIVE YOU SOME DISCERNMENT THAT THE 130 YEARS IS A PARTICULAR SIGN THAT SETH WAS THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
John 4:35 ………….. for they are white already to harvest.
HOW ARE THEY WHITE ALREADY, OBVIOUS THE SOWER, AND THE REAPERDID THE WORK!
36 that both he that soweth, and he that reapeth, may rejoice together.
NOW READ HOW MANY TIMES JESUS ASSERTED REGARDING THE ORIGIN OF THE APPOSTLES!
COUNT THEM AND TELL ME WHY ALL THAT INSISTENCE TO REPEAT SUCH STATEMENT!
(1) WHOM YOU HAST GIVEN ME OUT OF THE WORLD
(2) THINE THEY WERE, AND TO ME THOU GAVEST THEM;
(3) whom thou hast given me: because they are thine:
(4) whom thou has given me; that they may be one, as we also are.
(5)Those whom thou gavest me have I kept; and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture may be fulfilled.
(6) because they are not of the world; as I also am not of the world.
(7)16They are not of the world, as I also am not of the world.
AND AS I SAID; SINCE GOD GIVE TOTAL FREEDOM TO HIS CREATURES TO JUSTIFY THEMSELVES THAT THEY IN REALITY LOVE GOD, THEY WILL NOT BE AWARE OF IT UNTILL THE APPROPRIATE TIME! PENTECOST
NOW REFLECT:
John 16:12 I have yet many things to say to you: but you cannot bear them now. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL TRUTH!……………
YES I AM CONVINCED THAT THE ENTIRE HEAVENLY HOSTS, SINCE GOD HIMSELF CAME DOWN TO EARTH IN JESUS CHRIST,WOULD EVENTUALLY ACQUIRE THE FLESH BODY THROUGH THE SAME SYSTEM WHICH WE TOOK, IN ORDER TO DEMONSTRATE GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS, TO JUSTIFY THEMSELVES THAT THEY REALLY LOVE GOD, AND BE AN EXAMPLE TO US !
I GAVE SUFFICIENT SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT MY BELIEFE. NO ONE POSTED ANY SCRIPTURE WHICH SUPPORT THAT ANGELS WOULD NEVER BECOME HUMANS LIKE US!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
First, only the Bible is the inspired word of God. There were believers that wrote other books, but God did not see fit to include them in the Bible, did He?Jacob's Ladder. Well, I am not sure what you want to know. It was a vision by Jacob. It represents the connection between Heaven and Earth. The angels are the messengers of God interceding on behalf of His chosen. We then learn that the ladder was a symbol of the Christ to come. He will link us to Heaven and our Father as Mediator. (John 1:51)
The generation of Heaven…
John 8:23And he said to them: You are from beneath, (HELL) I am from above. ( HEAVEN)You are of this world, I am not of this worldThis was directed to the nonbelievers, NOT to the disciples. So I am not sure what your point is here.
The birth of Seth….
Eve saw Seth as a replacement for her slain son, Abel. Seth means “granted” as in God granted another son to Eve. Children were seen as a blessing, at least back then. What is meant by “another seed for Abel” It means that Abel was killed and God gave Eve another seed, Seth.John 4:24-42
How are they white already?? Because THEY, the Samaritans that gathered, are ready for the harvest already!! The disciples have the benefit of the work put in by the Prophets and forefathers as to the Jews, but to the Gentiles..the message has yet to come.As for the 7 statements of “whom you hast given me”…
Again, this is not speaking of the Apostles only!! We are all God's!! NONE of the true believers are to be “of this world.” This is not to say that we are angels from heaven. It is to say we are to not be concerned with worldly things.1 John 2:15-17
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.Now notice that the disciples were from this world…
John 17:6
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.They did not come FROM out of this world…they came OUT of this world!!!
I am sure you know Bible verses. You clearly show that!! I disagree with your interpretation of said verses. You seem to read a lot more into verses that are not there. Again, the knowledge of God is immense in deed; however, the basic concept…the simplicity of Christ as spoken of by Paul…is easy to understand.
2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.God did not want it to be so difficult to understand Him, to know Him. God wants us all to know Him, even those with a lower intelligence.
The thing is…I know the difference between the Son of God and God. God knows that we know and understand the Father/Son relationship. That is why He uses such language. It is not meant to confuse us. Jesus made it very clear that He was not God. He never claimed to be God, and His
disciples never claimed that He was God. And yet, because some men that misinterpreted the Bible 2,000 years ago, you expect me to go against the word of God. For the word of God, itself, never says that Jesus is God. It clearly says that He is the Son of God and that in the end, He will turn everything over to the Father so that He may be..all in all!!!
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