No god, no atheist

[terraricca]

Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,08:27)

Quote (terraricca @ May 23 2013,13:20) Quote (Colter @ May 22 2013,17:47) Quote (terraricca @ May 22 2013,12:17) Quote (Colter @ May 21 2013,19:30) Atheism is Faith in the doctrines of doubt. Lucifer became and atheist, he also lost Faith in the unseen Father. Colter colter you are a dreamer ; Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Jas 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. terraricca, You are limited by Bible worship, if only you could think outside of your idol. Being so limited, even if Jesus were to appear to you today, you would probubly think he was Satan just as the Jews did.? Job is a parable. Colter Colter You are so self center in your freedom, that you have become a slave to it, it does not matter what we quote you ,you will not agree with it unless it fits your person , Jealous of my freedom in Christ? That's a good example of how they hated Jesus without  a cause. Colter

I am rolling on the floor ;FREEDOM IN CHRIST you do not even know the man nor the son of God ,you deny them both ,

YOUR FREEDOM IS THE CHOICE YOU HAVE MADE TO SERVE YOURSELF THE BEST WAY YOU CAN ;

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Colter @ May 24 2013,00:22)

Neither does the Book of Job claim to be the word of God, or ANY of the other books which the Roman's used to create a document of controlling authority. Church authorities knew this very truth then, and they know it know, but they are moral cowards. They are afraid of loosing control of the flock, for you can't possibly think for yourself. You might grab a butter knife and saw your arm off if someone wasn't there to tell you not to. Rescue Jesus from the Bible. Colter

Jesus exploits and recognition is from the Bible.

If you could travel back in time and rescue Jesus from the Bible by destroying it, when you came back, there would probably be no Jesus.

These things were written down for us and every generation.

I see you hate the Bible. So does Satan who you believe does not exist.

[kerwin]

Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,16:34)

Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,14:53) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,06:07) Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,10:41) Job is a parable? Where does that book claim that? Isn't it obvious? It's considered a “didactic poem” or parable within Jewish scholarship. It also shows signs of editing. See the wiki on it, also Jewish Encyclopedia. The Book of Job Jewish Encyclopedia, Job, book of Colter Coltier, I find such experts to be non-creditable. Well naturally, you are a teacher of Bible idolatry, it is a safe refuge. Keeps the talent under a rock, safe and protected, so when the mater returns you can give it back to him, adding no interest. Colter

Colter,

It is a soft science subject to opinion and short sightedness.

Quote

The significance of this breakthrough relates to the fact that at least some of the biblical scriptures were composed hundreds of years before the dates presented today in research and that the Kingdom of Israel already existed at that time.

Note: From Most Ancient Biblical Inscriptions

[Spock]

Quote (t8 @ May 24 2013,13:25)

Quote (Colter @ May 24 2013,00:22) Neither does the Book of Job claim to be the word of God, or ANY of the other books which the Roman's used to create a document of controlling authority. Church authorities knew this very truth then, and they know it know, but they are moral cowards. They are afraid of loosing control of the flock, for you can't possibly think for yourself. You might grab a butter knife and saw your arm off if someone wasn't there to tell you not to. Rescue Jesus from the Bible. Colter Jesus exploits and recognition is from the Bible. If you could travel back in time and rescue Jesus from the Bible by destroying it, when you came back, there would probably be no Jesus. These things were written down for us and every generation. I see you hate the Bible. So does Satan who you believe does not exist.

Rescuing Jesus means reestablishing his original Gospel before Paganized Christianity combined all the books to form the Bible idol.

[Spock]

Quote (kerwin @ May 24 2013,14:02)

Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,16:34) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,14:53) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,06:07) Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,10:41) Job is a parable? Where does that book claim that? Isn't it obvious? It's considered a “didactic poem” or parable within Jewish scholarship. It also shows signs of editing. See the wiki on it, also Jewish Encyclopedia. The Book of Job Jewish Encyclopedia, Job, book of Colter Coltier, I find such experts to be non-creditable. Well naturally, you are a teacher of Bible idolatry, it is a safe refuge. Keeps the talent under a rock, safe and protected, so when the mater returns you can give it back to him, adding no interest. Colter Colter, It is a soft science subject to opinion and short sightedness. Quote The significance of this breakthrough relates to the fact that at least some of the biblical scriptures were composed hundreds of years before the dates presented today in research and that the Kingdom of Israel already existed at that time. Note: From Most Ancient Biblical Inscriptions

The Bible has been chopped up and redacted many times, some of it surely dates back to 1,000 BC

[kerwin]

Quote (Colter @ May 25 2013,08:07)

Quote (kerwin @ May 24 2013,14:02) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,16:34) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,14:53) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,06:07) Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,10:41) Job is a parable? Where does that book claim that? Isn't it obvious? It's considered a “didactic poem” or parable within Jewish scholarship. It also shows signs of editing. See the wiki on it, also Jewish Encyclopedia. The Book of Job Jewish Encyclopedia, Job, book of Colter Coltier, I find such experts to be non-creditable. Well naturally, you are a teacher of Bible idolatry, it is a safe refuge. Keeps the talent under a rock, safe and protected, so when the mater returns you can give it back to him, adding no interest. Colter Colter, It is a soft science subject to opinion and short sightedness. Quote The significance of this breakthrough relates to the fact that at least some of the biblical scriptures were composed hundreds of years before the dates presented today in research and that the Kingdom of Israel already existed at that time. Note: From Most Ancient Biblical Inscriptions The Bible has been chopped up and redacted many times, some of it surely dates back to 1,000 BC

Colter,

The piece states the previous opinion of researchers on the matter was mistaken.

[Spock]

Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,17:26)

Quote (Colter @ May 25 2013,08:07) Quote (kerwin @ May 24 2013,14:02) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,16:34) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,14:53) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,06:07) Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,10:41) Job is a parable? Where does that book claim that? Isn't it obvious? It's considered a “didactic poem” or parable within Jewish scholarship. It also shows signs of editing. See the wiki on it, also Jewish Encyclopedia. The Book of Job Jewish Encyclopedia, Job, book of Colter Coltier, I find such experts to be non-creditable. Well naturally, you are a teacher of Bible idolatry, it is a safe refuge. Keeps the talent under a rock, safe and protected, so when the mater returns you can give it back to him, adding no interest. Colter Colter, It is a soft science subject to opinion and short sightedness. Quote The significance of this breakthrough relates to the fact that at least some of the biblical scriptures were composed hundreds of years before the dates presented today in research and that the Kingdom of Israel already existed at that time. Note: From Most Ancient Biblical Inscriptions The Bible has been chopped up and redacted many times, some of it surely dates back to 1,000 BC Colter, The piece states the previous opinion of researchers on the matter was mistaken.

Kerwin, I respect your faith that God wrote a perfect book as a guide for you. I just don't agree. I would defend your faith against Atheist attacks where I feel truth is within.

The piece you provided says that “at least some” of the Hebrew writings would predate the generally established scholarship of the 600 bc dates of the Torah. I already agree with that, it is consistent with the enmass redactions beloved to have occurred during the captivity.

Gods living Word is true in all ages, it is here now between us, spiritual truth is a living reality, regardless of the possible errors in mans biased, imperfect, political, time specific so called scriptures.

Colter

[kerwin]

Quote (Colter @ May 25 2013,19:33)

Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,17:26) Quote (Colter @ May 25 2013,08:07) Quote (kerwin @ May 24 2013,14:02) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,16:34) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,14:53) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,06:07) Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,10:41) Job is a parable? Where does that book claim that? Isn't it obvious? It's considered a “didactic poem” or parable within Jewish scholarship. It also shows signs of editing. See the wiki on it, also Jewish Encyclopedia. The Book of Job Jewish Encyclopedia, Job, book of Colter Coltier, I find such experts to be non-creditable. Well naturally, you are a teacher of Bible idolatry, it is a safe refuge. Keeps the talent under a rock, safe and protected, so when the mater returns you can give it back to him, adding no interest. Colter Colter, It is a soft science subject to opinion and short sightedness. Quote The significance of this breakthrough relates to the fact that at least some of the biblical scriptures were composed hundreds of years before the dates presented today in research and that the Kingdom of Israel already existed at that time. Note: From Most Ancient Biblical Inscriptions The Bible has been chopped up and redacted many times, some of it surely dates back to 1,000 BC Colter, The piece states the previous opinion of researchers on the matter was mistaken. Kerwin, I respect your faith that God wrote a perfect book as a guide for you. I just don't agree. I would defend your faith against Atheist attacks where I feel truth is within. The piece you provided says that “at least some” of the Hebrew writings would predate the generally established scholarship of the 600 bc dates of the Torah. I already agree with that, it is consistent with the enmass redactions beloved to have occurred during the captivity. Gods living Word is true in all ages, it is here now between us, spiritual truth is a living reality, regardless of the possible errors in mans biased, imperfect, political, time specific so called scriptures. Colter

Colter,

The 600BC may be correct for a particular version of the Torah, just like the 1600's is correct for the KJV. You are aware Scriptures were around before the 1600 and that languages change. The Hebrew language changed between the time of King David and the time of the Second Temple.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Colter @ May 25 2013,16:02)

Rescuing Jesus means reestablishing his original Gospel before Paganized Christianity combined all the books to form the Bible idol.

No doubt there is a huge amount of paganism in Christian tradition as well as many false teachings.

But replacing the Bible with your one is not the solution, it only adds to the problem.

Most cults use a similar argument that you have. That they are the needed correction. This shows carnal mindedness because it is not about the right religion or the right brand of spirituality, no it is about God and the testimony that he sent his son into the world to save the world.

We have scripture rather than cleverly devised fables and oral traditions.

[Spock]

Quote (t8 @ May 26 2013,20:12)

Quote (Colter @ May 25 2013,16:02) Rescuing Jesus means reestablishing his original Gospel before Paganized Christianity combined all the books to form the Bible idol. No doubt there is a huge amount of paganism in Christian tradition as well as many false teachings. But replacing the Bible with your one is not the solution, it only adds to the problem. Most cults use a similar argument that you have. That they are the needed correction. This shows carnal mindedness because it is not about the right religion or the right brand of spirituality, no it is about God and the testimony that he sent his son into the world to save the world. We have scripture rather than cleverly devised fables and oral traditions.

If you were correct, then if Jesus did send you an advanced revelation of truth, your “technique” for assessing truth would deny you the opportunity simply because God doesn't do things your way.

Just so you are aware, the Jews very much considered Christianity to be a fringe cult of followers of a “clever” carpenter, familiar to many in the lower class neighborhood of Nazereth. They just see the cult as having grown much larger, breaking up into many pieces, fighting amongst themselves.

Just like you t8, the Jews have self satisfying, scripture based arguments as to why Jesus was a cult leader, a false Messiah, cleverly misleading gullible people into new age, strange teachings.

Colter

[Spock]

Quote (kerwin @ May 26 2013,18:34)

Quote (Colter @ May 25 2013,19:33) Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,17:26) Quote (Colter @ May 25 2013,08:07) Quote (kerwin @ May 24 2013,14:02) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,16:34) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,14:53) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,06:07) Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,10:41) Job is a parable? Where does that book claim that? Isn't it obvious? It's considered a “didactic poem” or parable within Jewish scholarship. It also shows signs of editing. See the wiki on it, also Jewish Encyclopedia. The Book of Job Jewish Encyclopedia, Job, book of Colter Coltier, I find such experts to be non-creditable. Well naturally, you are a teacher of Bible idolatry, it is a safe refuge. Keeps the talent under a rock, safe and protected, so when the mater returns you can give it back to him, adding no interest. Colter Colter, It is a soft science subject to opinion and short sightedness. Quote The significance of this breakthrough relates to the fact that at least some of the biblical scriptures were composed hundreds of years before the dates presented today in research and that the Kingdom of Israel already existed at that time. Note: From Most Ancient Biblical Inscriptions The Bible has been chopped up and redacted many times, some of it surely dates back to 1,000 BC Colter, The piece states the previous opinion of researchers on the matter was mistaken. Kerwin, I respect your faith that God wrote a perfect book as a guide for you. I just don't agree. I would defend your faith against Atheist attacks where I feel truth is within. The piece you provided says that “at least some” of the Hebrew writings would predate the generally established scholarship of the 600 bc dates of the Torah. I already agree with that, it is consistent with the enmass redactions beloved to have occurred during the captivity. Gods living Word is true in all ages, it is here now between us, spiritual truth is a living reality, regardless of the possible errors in mans biased, imperfect, political, time specific so called scriptures. Colter Colter, The 600BC may be correct for a particular version of the Torah, just like the 1600's is correct for the KJV.  You are aware Scriptures were around before the 1600 and that languages change.   The Hebrew language changed between the time of King David and the time of the Second Temple.

Yes, I am aware, the Hebrew language dates to about 900 bc, it was derived from the Philisteans. The OT books were retrospectives, written long after the events depicted within them and for the common people. They did not claim to be writing the “Word of God”, they were writing phsudobiographical stories for the guidance and consumption of the Israelite community. It was only after the return to Jerusalem that the claim of Mosses authorship was taught.

We now have the actual history of the Hebrews minus the exagerations.

Colter

[kerwin]

Quote (Colter @ May 26 2013,16:53)

Quote (kerwin @ May 26 2013,18:34) Quote (Colter @ May 25 2013,19:33) Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,17:26) Quote (Colter @ May 25 2013,08:07) Quote (kerwin @ May 24 2013,14:02) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,16:34) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,14:53) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,06:07) Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,10:41) Job is a parable? Where does that book claim that? Isn't it obvious? It's considered a “didactic poem” or parable within Jewish scholarship. It also shows signs of editing. See the wiki on it, also Jewish Encyclopedia. The Book of Job Jewish Encyclopedia, Job, book of Colter Coltier, I find such experts to be non-creditable. Well naturally, you are a teacher of Bible idolatry, it is a safe refuge. Keeps the talent under a rock, safe and protected, so when the mater returns you can give it back to him, adding no interest. Colter Colter, It is a soft science subject to opinion and short sightedness. Quote The significance of this breakthrough relates to the fact that at least some of the biblical scriptures were composed hundreds of years before the dates presented today in research and that the Kingdom of Israel already existed at that time. Note: From Most Ancient Biblical Inscriptions The Bible has been chopped up and redacted many times, some of it surely dates back to 1,000 BC Colter, The piece states the previous opinion of researchers on the matter was mistaken. Kerwin, I respect your faith that God wrote a perfect book as a guide for you. I just don't agree. I would defend your faith against Atheist attacks where I feel truth is within. The piece you provided says that “at least some” of the Hebrew writings would predate the generally established scholarship of the 600 bc dates of the Torah. I already agree with that, it is consistent with the enmass redactions beloved to have occurred during the captivity. Gods living Word is true in all ages, it is here now between us, spiritual truth is a living reality, regardless of the possible errors in mans biased, imperfect, political, time specific so called scriptures. Colter Colter, The 600BC may be correct for a particular version of the Torah, just like the 1600's is correct for the KJV.  You are aware Scriptures were around before the 1600 and that languages change.   The Hebrew language changed between the time of King David and the time of the Second Temple. Yes, I am aware, the Hebrew language dates to about 900 bc, it was derived from the Philisteans.  The OT books were retrospectives, written long after the events depicted within them and for the common people. They did not claim to be writing the “Word of God”, they were writing phsudobiographical stories for the guidance and consumption of the Israelite community. It was only after the return to Jerusalem that the claim of Mosses authorship was taught. We now have the actual history of the Hebrews minus the exagerations. Colter

Colter,

The language evolved as languages do and Scripture was updated appropriately.

[Spock]

Quote (kerwin @ May 26 2013,23:09)

Quote (Colter @ May 26 2013,16:53) Quote (kerwin @ May 26 2013,18:34) Quote (Colter @ May 25 2013,19:33) Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2013,17:26) Quote (Colter @ May 25 2013,08:07) Quote (kerwin @ May 24 2013,14:02) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,16:34) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,14:53) Quote (Colter @ May 23 2013,06:07) Quote (t8 @ May 23 2013,10:41) Job is a parable? Where does that book claim that? Isn't it obvious? It's considered a “didactic poem” or parable within Jewish scholarship. It also shows signs of editing. See the wiki on it, also Jewish Encyclopedia. The Book of Job Jewish Encyclopedia, Job, book of Colter Coltier, I find such experts to be non-creditable. Well naturally, you are a teacher of Bible idolatry, it is a safe refuge. Keeps the talent under a rock, safe and protected, so when the mater returns you can give it back to him, adding no interest. Colter Colter, It is a soft science subject to opinion and short sightedness. Quote The significance of this breakthrough relates to the fact that at least some of the biblical scriptures were composed hundreds of years before the dates presented today in research and that the Kingdom of Israel already existed at that time. Note: From Most Ancient Biblical Inscriptions The Bible has been chopped up and redacted many times, some of it surely dates back to 1,000 BC Colter, The piece states the previous opinion of researchers on the matter was mistaken. Kerwin, I respect your faith that God wrote a perfect book as a guide for you. I just don't agree. I would defend your faith against Atheist attacks where I feel truth is within. The piece you provided says that “at least some” of the Hebrew writings would predate the generally established scholarship of the 600 bc dates of the Torah. I already agree with that, it is consistent with the enmass redactions beloved to have occurred during the captivity. Gods living Word is true in all ages, it is here now between us, spiritual truth is a living reality, regardless of the possible errors in mans biased, imperfect, political, time specific so called scriptures. Colter Colter, The 600BC may be correct for a particular version of the Torah, just like the 1600's is correct for the KJV.  You are aware Scriptures were around before the 1600 and that languages change.   The Hebrew language changed between the time of King David and the time of the Second Temple. Yes, I am aware, the Hebrew language dates to about 900 bc, it was derived from the Philisteans.  The OT books were retrospectives, written long after the events depicted within them and for the common people. They did not claim to be writing the “Word of God”, they were writing phsudobiographical stories for the guidance and consumption of the Israelite community. It was only after the return to Jerusalem that the claim of Mosses authorship was taught. We now have the actual history of the Hebrews minus the exagerations. Colter Colter, The language evolved as languages do and Scripture was updated appropriately.

“updated” , that's a good word. The individual bible books have been updated by very human minds, multiple times. Minds of the elite preists class, whose activities were binding and unquestionable, enforced routinely by torture and death.

Colter

[Spock]

Jesus explained it best in his discussion with Nathanial, it leaves our faith in the living God intact while conceding the need for critical thinking, the updating of religion:

(1767.3) 159:4.1 And then went Jesus over to Abila, where Nathaniel and his associates labored. Nathaniel was much bothered by some of Jesus’ pronouncements which seemed to detract from the authority of the recognized Hebrew scriptures. Accordingly, on this night, after the usual period of questions and answers, Nathaniel took Jesus away from the others and asked: “Master, could you trust me to know the truth about the Scriptures? I observe that you teach us only a portion of the sacred writings — the best as I view it — and I infer that you reject the teachings of the rabbis to the effect that the words of the law are the very words of God, having been with God in heaven even before the times of Abraham and Moses. What is the truth about the Scriptures?” When Jesus heard the question of his bewildered apostle, he answered:

(1767.4) 159:4.2 “Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching. The words of the law of Moses and the teachings of the Scriptures were not in existence before Abraham. Only in recent times have the Scriptures been gathered together as we now have them. While they contain the best of the higher thoughts and longings of the Jewish people, they also contain much that is far from being representative of the character and teachings of the Father in heaven; wherefore must I choose from among the better teachings those truths which are to be gleaned for the gospel of the kingdom.

(1767.5) 159:4.3 “These writings are the work of men, some of them holy men, others not so holy. The teachings of these books represent the views and extent of enlightenment of the times in which they had their origin. As a revelation of truth, the last are more dependable than the first. The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin, but mistake not, they do constitute the best collection of religious wisdom and spiritual truth to be found in all the world at this time.

(1767.6) 159:4.4 “Many of these books were not written by the persons whose names they bear, but that in no way detracts from the value of the truths which they contain. If the story of Jonah should not be a fact, even if Jonah had never lived, still would the profound truth of this narrative, the love of God for Nineveh and the so-called heathen, be none the less precious in the eyes of all those who love their fellow men. The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds.

(1768.1) 159:4.5 “Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies — men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God. The Scriptures always have, and always will, reflect the intellectual, moral, and spiritual status of those who create them. Have you not noted that the concepts of Yahweh grow in beauty and glory as the prophets make their records from Samuel to Isaiah? And you should remember that the Scriptures are intended for religious instruction and spiritual guidance. They are not the works of either historians or philosophers.

(1768.2) 159:4.6 “The thing most deplorable is not merely this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings, but rather the confusing misinterpretation of these sacred writings by the tradition-enslaved scribes and Pharisees at Jerusalem. And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures.

(1768.3) 159:4.7 “The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records.

(1768.4) 159:4.8 “Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.

(1768.5) 159:4.9 “But the greatest error of the teaching about the Scriptures is the doctrine of their being sealed books of mystery and wisdom which only the wise minds of the nation dare to interpret. The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow-minded intolerance. The light of the Scriptures is only dimmed by prejudice and darkened by superstition. A false fear of sacredness has prevented religion from being safeguarded by common sense. The fear of the authority of the sacred writings of the past effectively prevents the honest souls of today from accepting the new light of the gospel, the light which these very God-knowing men of another generation so intensely longed to see.

(1769.1) 159:4.10 “But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest. They know the truth regarding the sacred writings, but they prefer to withhold such disturbing facts from the people. And thus do they pervert and distort the Scriptures, making them the guide to slavish details of the daily life and an authority in things nonspiritual instead of appealing to the sacred writings as the repository of the moral wisdom, religious inspiration, and the spiritual teaching of the God-knowing men of other generations.”

(1769.2) 159:4.11 Nathaniel was enlightened, and shocked, by the Master’s pronouncement. He long pondered this talk in the depths of his soul, but he told no man concerning this conference until after Jesus’ ascension; and even then he feared to impart the full story of the Master’s instruction.

Colter

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Colter @ May 26 2013,09:28)

(1767.4) 159:4.2 “Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching.”

What does that bolded part mean, Colter?  What exactly would make Nathaniel prepared to receive the teaching, but no one else?

And why, in 1955, was it deemed that any of us who were capable of reading the UB were now, all of a sudden, “prepared to receive this teaching”?  Why us, but not the majority of Jesus' original 12 Apostles?  Weren't these the ones Jesus sent into the world as a light for the rest of us?  Surely he would have told them all the truth of the matter, right?

And if Nathaniel was the enlightened one of the group, why was Simon the rock upon which Jesus built the church?  Why was Simon the one to whom Jesus said, “Feed my sheep”?

Quote (Colter @ May 26 2013,09:28)

(1768.1) 159:4.5 “Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies — men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God.

I have to admit that I've personally wondered about this stuff myself.  It's hard for me to imagine God Himself commanding certain men to brutally murder little boys and girls.

But we are told in scripture that Saul was ousted as king because he didn't totally annihilate the Amalekites as directed by God through Samuel.  What does the UB say about that?  How did David end up being the chosen king over Saul – according to the UB?

[Spock]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2013,03:17)

Quote (Colter @ May 26 2013,09:28) (1767.4) 159:4.2 “Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching.” What does that bolded part mean, Colter?  What exactly would make Nathaniel prepared to receive the teaching, but no one else? And why, in 1955, was it deemed that any of us who were capable of reading the UB were now, all of a sudden, “prepared to receive this teaching”?  Why us, but not the majority of Jesus' original 12 Apostles?  Weren't these the ones Jesus sent into the world as a light for the rest of us?  Surely he would have told them all the truth of the matter, right? And if Nathaniel was the enlightened one of the group, why was Simon the rock upon which Jesus built the church?  Why was Simon the one to whom Jesus said, “Feed my sheep”? Quote (Colter @ May 26 2013,09:28) (1768.1) 159:4.5 “Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies — men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God. I have to admit that I've personally wondered about this stuff myself.  It's hard for me to imagine God Himself commanding certain men to brutally murder little boys and girls. But we are told in scripture that Saul was ousted as king because he didn't totally annihilate the Amalekites as directed by God through Samuel.  What does the UB say about that?  How did David end up being the chosen king over Saul – according to the UB?

1)The answer is frankly that sometimes the truth would be so devastating that it would be detrimental. Jesus was saying to
Nathanial that he was mature enough to handle the truth.

2) The rock wasn't Peter, if you read the context of that exchange known as ” Peters confession” you can see that the Rock was the fact that it was the Father within the hearts of the apostles that bore witness to the identity of Jesus, not a church built on Peter. Jesus established his kingdom on faith in the Father. We are to live according to the will of the Father just as Jesus did, not the will of a substitute church.

Christians don't seem to have an appreciation for the fact that the revolutionary teachings of Jesus were very different than Judaism.

Colter

[Spock]

Mike asked about making David king, the UB revelation contains the true History of the Hebrews prior to the en mass editing during the Babylonion captivity. It's not pretty if you have been lead to believe that the scripture is the word of God.

9. Hebrew History

(1071.6) 97:9.1 There never were twelve tribes of the Israelites — only three or four tribes settled in Palestine. The Hebrew nation came into being as the result of the union of the so-called Israelites and the Canaanites. “And the children of Israel dwelt among the Canaanites. And they took their daughters to be their wives and gave their daughters to the sons of the Canaanites.” The Hebrews never drove the Canaanites out of Palestine, notwithstanding that the priests’ record of these things unhesitatingly declared that they did.

(1071.7) 97:9.2 The Israelitish consciousness took origin in the hill country of Ephraim; the later Jewish consciousness originated in the southern clan of Judah. The Jews (Judahites) always sought to defame and blacken the record of the northern Israelites (Ephraimites).

(1072.1) 97:9.3 Pretentious Hebrew history begins with Saul’s rallying the northern clans to withstand an attack by the Ammonites upon their fellow tribesmen — the Gileadites — east of the Jordan. With an army of a little more than three thousand he defeated the enemy, and it was this exploit that led the hill tribes to make him king. When the exiled priests rewrote this story, they raised Saul’s army to 330,000 and added “Judah” to the list of tribes participating in the battle.

(1072.2) 97:9.4 Immediately following the defeat of the Ammonites, Saul was made king by popular election by his troops. No priest or prophet participated in this affair. But the priests later on put it in the record that Saul was crowned king by the prophet Samuel in accordance with divine directions. This they did in order to establish a “divine line of descent” for David’s Judahite kingship.

(1072.3) 97:9.5 The greatest of all distortions of Jewish history had to do with David. After Saul’s victory over the Ammonites (which he ascribed to Yahweh) the Philistines became alarmed and began attacks on the northern clans. David and Saul never could agree. David with six hundred men entered into a Philistine alliance and marched up the coast to Esdraelon. At Gath the Philistines ordered David off the field; they feared he might go over to Saul. David retired; the Philistines attacked and defeated Saul. They could not have done this had David been loyal to Israel. David’s army was a polyglot assortment of malcontents, being for the most part made up of social misfits and fugitives from justice.

(1072.4) 97:9.6 Saul’s tragic defeat at Gilboa by the Philistines brought Yahweh to a low point among the gods in the eyes of the surrounding Canaanites. Ordinarily, Saul’s defeat would have been ascribed to apostasy from Yahweh, but this time the Judahite editors attributed it to ritual errors. They required the tradition of Saul and Samuel as a background for the kingship of David.

(1072.5) 97:9.7 David with his small army made his headquarters at the non-Hebrew city of Hebron. Presently his compatriots proclaimed him king of the new kingdom of Judah. Judah was made up mostly of non-Hebrew elements — Kenites, Calebites, Jebusites, and other Canaanites. They were nomads — herders — and so were devoted to the Hebrew idea of land ownership. They held the ideologies of the desert clans.

(1072.6) 97:9.8 The difference between sacred and profane history is well illustrated by the two differing stories concerning making David king as they are found in the Old Testament. A part of the secular story of how his immediate followers (his army) made him king was inadvertently left in the record by the priests who subsequently prepared the lengthy and prosaic account of the sacred history wherein is depicted how the prophet Samuel, by divine direction, selected David from among his brethren and proceeded formally and by elaborate and solemn ceremonies to anoint him king over the Hebrews and then to proclaim him Saul’s successor.

(1072.7) 97:9.9 So many times did the priests, after preparing their fictitious narratives of God’s miraculous dealings with Israel, fail fully to delete the plain and matter-of-fact statements which already rested in the records.

(1072.8) 97:9.10 David sought to build himself up politically by first marrying Saul’s daughter, then the widow of Nabal the rich Edomite, and then the daughter of Talmai, the king of Geshur. He took six wives from the women of Jebus, not to mention Bathsheba, the wife of the Hittite.

(1073.1) 97:9.11 And it was by such methods and out of such people that David built up the fiction of a divine kingdom of Judah as the successor of the heritage and traditions of the vanishing northern kingdom of Ephraimite Israel. David’s cosmopolitan tribe of Judah was more gentile than Jewish; nevertheless the oppressed elders of Ephraim came down and “anointed him king of Israel.” After a military threat, David then made a compact with the Jebusites and established his capital of the united kingdom at Jebus (Jerusalem), which was a strong-walled city midway between Judah and Israel. The Philistines were aroused and soon attacked David. After a fierce battle they were defeated, and once more Yahweh was established as “The Lord God of Hosts.”

(1073.2) 97:9.12 But Yahweh must, perforce, share some of this glory with the Canaanite gods, for the bulk of David’s army was non-Hebrew. And so there appears in your record (overlooked by the Judahite editors) this telltale statement: “Yahweh has broken my enemies before me. Therefore he called the name of the place Baal-Perazim.” And they did this because eighty per cent of David’s soldiers were Baalites.

(1073.3) 97:9.13 David explained Saul’s defeat at Gilboa by pointing out that Saul had attacked a Canaanite city, Gibeon, whose people had a peace treaty with the Ephraimites. Because of this, Yahweh forsook him. Even in Saul’s time David had defended the Canaanite city of Keilah against the Philistines, and then he located his capital in a Canaanite city. In keeping with the policy of compromise with the Canaanites, David turned seven of Saul’s descendants over to the Gibeonites to be hanged.

(1073.4) 97:9.14 After the defeat of the Philistines, David gained possession of the “ark of Yahweh,” brought it to Jerusalem, and made the worship of Yahweh official for his kingdom. He next laid heavy tribute on the neighboring tribes — the Edomites, Moabites, Ammonites, and Syrians.

(1073.5) 97:9.15 David’s corrupt political machine began to get personal possession of land in the north in violation of the Hebrew mores and presently gained control of the caravan tariffs formerly collected by the Philistines. And then came a series of atrocities climaxed by the murder of Uriah. All judicial appeals were adjudicated at Jerusalem; no longer could “the elders” mete out justice. No wonder rebellion broke out. Today, Absalom might be called a demagogue; his mother was a Canaanite. There were a half dozen contenders for the throne besides the son of Bathsheba — Solomon.

(1073.6) 97:9.16 After David’s death Solomon purged the political machine of all northern influences but continued all of the tyranny and taxation of his father’s regime. Solomon bankrupted the nation by his lavish court and by his elaborate building program: There was the house of Lebanon, the palace of Pharaoh’s daughter, the temple of Yahweh, the king’s palace, and the restoration of the walls of many cities. Solomon created a vast Hebrew navy, operated by Syrian sailors and trading with all the world. His harem numbered almost one thousand.

(1073.7) 97:9.17 By this time Yahweh’s temple at Shiloh was discredited, and all the worship of the nation was centered at Jebus in the gorgeous royal chapel. The norther
n kingdom returned more to the worship of Elohim. They enjoyed the favor of the Pharaohs, who later enslaved Judah, putting the southern kingdom under tribute.

(1073.8) 97:9.18 There were ups and downs — wars between Israel and Judah. After four years of civil war and three dynasties, Israel fell under the rule of city despots who began to trade in land. Even King Omri attempted to buy Shemer’s estate. But the end drew on apace when Shalmaneser III decided to control the Mediterranean coast. King Ahab of Ephraim gathered ten other groups and resisted at Karkar; the battle was a draw. The Assyrian was stopped but the allies were decimated. This great fight is not even mentioned in the Old Testament.

(1074.1) 97:9.19 New trouble started when King Ahab tried to buy land from Naboth. His Phoenician wife forged Ahab’s name to papers directing that Naboth’s land be confiscated on the charge that he had blasphemed the names of “Elohim and the king.” He and his sons were promptly executed. The vigorous Elijah appeared on the scene denouncing Ahab for the murder of the Naboths. Thus Elijah, one of the greatest of the prophets, began his teaching as a defender of the old land mores as against the land-selling attitude of the Baalim, against the attempt of the cities to dominate the country. But the reform did not succeed until the country landlord Jehu joined forces with the gypsy chieftain Jehonadab to destroy the prophets (real estate agents) of Baal at Samaria.

(1074.2) 97:9.20 New life appeared as Jehoash and his son Jeroboam delivered Israel from its enemies. But by this time there ruled in Samaria a gangster-nobility whose depredations rivaled those of the Davidic dynasty of olden days. State and church went along hand in hand. The attempt to suppress freedom of speech led Elijah, Amos, and Hosea to begin their secret writing, and this was the real beginning of the Jewish and Christian Bibles.

(1074.3) 97:9.21 But the northern kingdom did not vanish from history until the king of Israel conspired with the king of Egypt and refused to pay further tribute to Assyria. Then began the three years’ siege followed by the total dispersion of the northern kingdom. Ephraim (Israel) thus vanished. Judah — the Jews, the “remnant of Israel” — had begun the concentration of land in the hands of the few, as Isaiah said, “Adding house to house and field to field.” Presently there was in Jerusalem a temple of Baal alongside the temple of Yahweh. This reign of terror was ended by a monotheistic revolt led by the boy king Joash, who crusaded for Yahweh for thirty-five years.

(1074.4) 97:9.22 The next king, Amaziah, had trouble with the revolting tax-paying Edomites and their neighbors. After a signal victory he turned to attack his northern neighbors and was just as signally defeated. Then the rural folk revolted; they assassinated the king and put his sixteen-year-old son on the throne. This was Azariah, called Uzziah by Isaiah. After Uzziah, things went from bad to worse, and Judah existed for a hundred years by paying tribute to the kings of Assyria. Isaiah the first told them that Jerusalem, being the city of Yahweh, would never fall. But Jeremiah did not hesitate to proclaim its downfall.

(1074.5) 97:9.23 The real undoing of Judah was effected by a corrupt and rich ring of politicians operating under the rule of a boy king, Manasseh. The changing economy favored the return of the worship of Baal, whose private land dealings were against the ideology of Yahweh. The fall of Assyria and the ascendancy of Egypt brought deliverance to Judah for a time, and the country folk took over. Under Josiah they destroyed the Jerusalem ring of corrupt politicians.*

(1074.6) 97:9.24 But this era came to a tragic end when Josiah presumed to go out to intercept Necho’s mighty army as it moved up the coast from Egypt for the aid of Assyria against Babylon. He was wiped out, and Judah went under tribute to Egypt. The Baal political party returned to power in Jerusalem, and thus began the real Egyptian bondage. Then ensued a period in which the Baalim politicians controlled both the courts and the priesthood. Baal worship was an economic and social system dealing with property rights as well as having to do with soil fertility.

(1075.1) 97:9.25 With the overthrow of Necho by Nebuchadnezzar, Judah fell under the rule of Babylon and was given ten years of grace, but soon rebelled. When Nebuchadnezzar came against them, the Judahites started social reforms, such as releasing slaves, to influence Yahweh. When the Babylonian army temporarily withdrew, the Hebrews rejoiced that their magic of reform had delivered them. It was during this period that Jeremiah told them of the impending doom, and presently Nebuchadnezzar returned.

(1075.2) 97:9.26 And so the end of Judah came suddenly. The city was destroyed, and the people were carried away into Babylon. The Yahweh-Baal struggle ended with the captivity. And the captivity shocked the remnant of Israel into monotheism.

(1075.3) 97:9.27 In Babylon the Jews arrived at the conclusion that they could not exist as a small group in Palestine, having their own peculiar social and economic customs, and that, if their ideologies were to prevail, they must convert the gentiles. Thus originated their new concept of destiny — the idea that the Jews must become the chosen servants of Yahweh. The Jewish religion of the Old Testament really evolved in Babylon during the captivity.

(1075.4) 97:9.28 The doctrine of immortality also took form at Babylon. The Jews had thought that the idea of the future life detracted from the emphasis of their gospel of social justice. Now for the first time theology displaced sociology and economics. Religion was taking shape as a system of human thought and conduct more and more to be separated from politics, sociology, and economics.

(1075.5) 97:9.29 And so does the truth about the Jewish people disclose that much which has been regarded as sacred history turns out to be little more than the chronicle of ordinary profane history. Judaism was the soil out of which Christianity grew, but the Jews were not a miraculous people.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Colter @ May 26 2013,15:33)

Jesus was saying to Nathanial that he was mature enough to handle the truth.

And the angels, or whoever, that delivered the UB were saying that ANYONE WHO CAN READ is now “mature enough to handle the truth”?

I'll get to the rest later.  I've read most of your lasted UB quote, but I'm tired now.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Colter @ May 27 2013,00:38)

If you were correct, then if Jesus did send you an advanced revelation of truth, your “technique” for assessing truth would deny you the opportunity simply because God doesn't do things your way. Just so you are aware, the Jews very much considered Christianity to be a fringe cult of followers of a “clever” carpenter, familiar to many in the lower class neighborhood of Nazereth. They just see the cult as having grown much larger, breaking up into many pieces, fighting amongst themselves. Just like you t8, the Jews have self satisfying, scripture based arguments as to why Jesus was a cult leader, a false Messiah, cleverly misleading gullible people into new age, strange teachings. Colter

Colter. It is more to do with the fact that we have had prophets and the son come into the world and give is the word of YHWH over a period of thousands of years. Then your science fiction book comes along and claims these books of the Bible are not true and that this new book is. I mean how gullible do you think we are.

Given that thinking you could equally believe any other book that claims the same thing of which there are many and of which yours in insignificant. Even the Divine Principles is probably more known of than the Uranta or whatever it is called. I mean I don't even know how to spell it.

Your book that claims to be the most truth and persecutes the Bible are in this company:

The Koran
Divine Principles
Book of Mormon

I am sure there are many others that were supposedly inspired by angels, aliens, and demons and I am sure there are many to come and some are probably in progress as I speak.

[Proclaimer]

Don't get me wrong Colter. I am a science fiction fan. Notice the word fiction though.
If your book was a movie, I would probably pay $20 to see it if it was in 3D.
But it would still be fiction.

[Author]

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