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SimplyForgiven,
I have a number of debates with Nick on certain subjects. I chose to debate with him to share my understanding and to see if he can, either purposely or not, shed more understanding on the topics we touch on. There is a point when a debate become fruitless and then it should be abandoned to go elsewhere.
I do find his posts vague and non-informing in some cases. I am sure he has his reasons for such posts. I use what I can to serve my purpose of learning about God and sharing what I have learned or am learning.
As for where this post belongs. There is not really a place to discuss the tactics used in debating. The best fit I think would be truth and traditions as this forum is more to address what we find in scripture.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,07:45) As I am seeing more and more, that Nick Hassan has questioned every single point mentioned, and than judges one and than thats it. Answering one question from Nick, leads to a rebuttle of another question from nick which becomes the unending cycle of questions and more questions.
For those who call themselves anti-trins, do ya has a community i guess, accpet Nick arguements, or do ya enjoy
his riducule of other peoples ideas? Do you think its fair the way he argues, without expressing ideas to also argue back. Its like saying the sky is blue, and he answeres why? and i say because of this and that, and he says why? but? if?Do you see his points as a valid arguement?
Do you see him as part of the anti trinitarion view?Here is a small study on Nick
1) He will always say hi
2)He will than ask a question,
3) He will ignore arguements, and points that are directly at him, and pick and choose qoutes
4) He rarely expresses his ideas
5) when he does he never brings claims for his ideas
6) He claims that are those that are lost
7) but he doesnt care enough to show them the way to truth
8) He is willing to only take parts of scripture
9) He has never expressed a full idea in a thread
10) If he is right, does he care that he believes that im going to hell?I guess this goes back to my basic point, not that im condemning him in any way, I have much love for the brother,
but it makes me think, lets say im wrong, and im believed to go to hell,
Why doesnt Nick care? If he says that He loves God, and has a communion with God and the holy scriptures, why isnt he willing to come help me?
The reason there are debates here, because everyone is scared for there very soul, because if they are wrong about a truth that they held as the center of their life, than there is a chance of Hell.
And if everyone is right than that too is also wrong, because not all contradicting statments can be true,
What if everyone is wrong and only God is right, and we only believe in him, and we humble ourselves to His Truth.
Jesus said for us to denie ourselves, Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.follow Christ….
What do ya think,
With much love, i really hope im not insulting everyone.
I pray that God can help us all. Because he loves everysingle one of us.
You have to understand, Nick is only here to stir the pot.Georg
Hi Dennison,
I think you have added things said by someone else to my post.
You said:
Quote But if im asking for the help, would you jsut leave it at that? No. That was the gist of my post.
You said:
Quote How do you know that i didnt read my bible? I never said you didn't.
You said:
Quote even thuogh i have it in front of me and been reading consistently, espeacially sinced i have joined the forum. That's great. Me too. And because of this site, I have to delve deeper into understanding what the Bible really says.
You said:
Quote How can you say my bible is dusty? I didn't say that.
You said:
Quote And please note: I have asked many times if you love me? why have you not answered this question? You have never asked me that before. I love everyone, including you. You were created by God, and therefore loved by God, and therefore loved by me.
You said:
Quote im not faulting anyone, im asking for an explianation,
if anything, according to him who believe he is right, im at fault, so correct it.You have received many explanations and opinions in this thread, including mine. If you don't like what Nick posts to you, ignore it. Nick, like everyone else on this site, hasn't been correct in everything he says. He interprets Scripture the best he can, and sometimes his intepretations do not agree with mine. I'm okay with that. I try not to let others have control of my emotions… and sometimes it even works.
And Nick is also learning as he goes just like the rest of us. In fact, he just said that in a post to WJ a couple of days ago. You said:
Quote Please do not call me a Trinitarian.
and neither am i a lukeworm.Okay, I won't. I assumed since the title of this thread asks what the “anti-trinitarians” thought, that you were a trinitarian. I shouldn't have made that assumption based on the little info I have about your beliefs. But I never called anyone a “lukeworm”. I said in one post that RokkaMan's views on the trinity were lukewarm. Is that what you are referring to?
peace and LOVE,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 16 2010,10:36) Hi Dennison, I think you have added things said by someone else to my post.
You said:
Quote But if im asking for the help, would you jsut leave it at that? No. That was the gist of my post.
You said:
Quote How do you know that i didnt read my bible? I never said you didn't.
You said:
Quote even thuogh i have it in front of me and been reading consistently, espeacially sinced i have joined the forum. That's great. Me too. And because of this site, I have to delve deeper into understanding what the Bible really says.
You said:
Quote How can you say my bible is dusty? I didn't say that.
You said:
Quote And please note: I have asked many times if you love me? why have you not answered this question? You have never asked me that before. I love everyone, including you. You were created by God, and therefore loved by God, and therefore loved by me.
You said:
Quote im not faulting anyone, im asking for an explianation,
if anything, according to him who believe he is right, im at fault, so correct it.You have received many explanations and opinions in this thread, including mine. If you don't like what Nick posts to you, ignore it. Nick, like everyone else on this site, hasn't been correct in everything he says. He interprets Scripture the best he can, and sometimes his intepretations do not agree with mine. I'm okay with that. I try not to let others have control of my emotions… and sometimes it even works.
And Nick is also learning as he goes just like the rest of us. In fact, he just said that in a post to WJ a couple of days ago. You said:
Quote Please do not call me a Trinitarian.
and neither am i a lukeworm.Okay, I won't. I assumed since the title of this thread asks what the “anti-trinitarians” thought, that you were a trinitarian. I shouldn't have made that assumption based on the little info I have about your beliefs. But I never called anyone a “lukeworm”. I said in one post that RokkaMan's views on the trinity were lukewarm. Is that what you are referring to?
peace and LOVE,
mike
Hey mike!you have to understand that i write most of my posts at 3am. so im kind of out of it.
When i wrote those comments, i was refferring to nick.
like the whole dusty bible comment.I wasnt realyl pertaining it to you, i was kindof generalizing, but i was more focused Nick.
lol sorryi think i was trying to publically demonstrate an example of what i was trying to prove.
Its cool,
and i know you didnt say that i was lukeworm, that was a just-in-case addition not being a trinitarian.lol probably i dont remember i was being defensive.
Sorry about the confusion!
Much love bro!!
Quote (kerwin @ May 14 2010,21:29) SimplyForgiven, I have a number of debates with Nick on certain subjects. I chose to debate with him to share my understanding and to see if he can, either purposely or not, shed more understanding on the topics we touch on. There is a point when a debate become fruitless and then it should be abandoned to go elsewhere.
I do find his posts vague and non-informing in some cases. I am sure he has his reasons for such posts. I use what I can to serve my purpose of learning about God and sharing what I have learned or am learning.
As for where this post belongs. There is not really a place to discuss the tactics used in debating. The best fit I think would be truth and traditions as this forum is more to address what we find in scripture.
Hi KW,
It is human nature and healthy to learn more deeply by your own study and to be skeptical about what comes from others.So we point in directions and let the joy of discovery be yours…hopefully.
It's true, if somehow Nick actually agrees with what you are saying, he will ignore what you are saying, and accuse you of being a JW. Well, that's my experience.
Quote (david @ May 20 2010,16:35) It's true, if somehow Nick actually agrees with what you are saying, he will ignore what you are saying, and accuse you of being a JW. Well, that's my experience.
Wow thats just too funny.
thats what im talking about, should we really hold his points as valid, yet others do… whatever.. its all good.actualy t8 makes very good arguements and actualy contributes more. from what i see.
arnt they both moderators?
i actually lost track of this thread, i didnt see that it was moved but im glad it still exists!
i think Terrarica is starting to follow the footsteps of Nick but in a more confusing manner.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 21 2010,20:51) Quote (david @ May 20 2010,16:35) It's true, if somehow Nick actually agrees with what you are saying, he will ignore what you are saying, and accuse you of being a JW. Well, that's my experience.
Wow thats just too funny.
thats what im talking about, should we really hold his points as valid, yet others do… whatever.. its all good.actualy t8 makes very good arguements and actualy contributes more. from what i see.
arnt they both moderators?
i actually lost track of this thread, i didnt see that it was moved but im glad it still exists!
i think Terrarica is starting to follow the footsteps of Nick but in a more confusing manner.
SFjust because you are still guided by men views, and not by the spirit of Christ,everything as to be spelled out to you in words clearly laid out.
and i also see that you never take in account the things you have already learn or that you really know,this will bring you back all the time to the beginning of all things and no progress can be made that way.
so tell me what do you really believe in the bible that you know for sure??
Quote arnt they both moderators? T8 (aka, "heaven") runs this joint.
He has allowed Nick (who generally believes the same things as T8) to moderate. Nick is on here a lot more, but T8 is on here a lot more regularly, steady.)They are both moderators.
T8 and Nick differ on certain subjects:
T8 believes that Jesus is a malakh (angel/messenger) Nick thinks that's essentially blasphemy, despite the fact that the Bible plainly says this.
T8 believes that God does not torture people in a firey hell for all eternity. Nick does.
T8 spends more time on the evolution, science stuff. Nick spends more time asking questions and not answering them. They both have their strong suits, medicine, being Nicks.SimplyForgiven! Why is it so important that you ask about Nick and make even a new topic about Him….I respect both Nick and t8. They are our Authority, and we need to respect them. If He stirs the pot or not, it makes no difference to me. The only think is what I object to with anybody is when they go on and on about a subject, and make a statement, without given Scriptures to prove it. 1 Thees. 21 tells us to prove all things. And if I am wrong and someone can prove it to me, I will say
so…..I have read some of your post and you give little or no Scriptures. All you do is say but, but….
The Bereans in Ancient times did so, and so should we…..
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Arnold @ May 22 2010,14:06) SimplyForgiven! Why is it so important that you ask about Nick and make even a new topic about Him….I respect both Nick and t8. They are our Authority, and we need to respect them. If He stirs the pot or not, it makes no difference to me. The only think is what I object to with anybody is when they go on and on about a subject, and make a statement, without given Scriptures to prove it. 1 Thees. 21 tells us to prove all things. And if I am wrong and someone can prove it to me, I will say
so…..I have read some of your post and you give little or no Scriptures. All you do is say but, but….
The Bereans in Ancient times did so, and so should we…..
Peace and Love Irene
welll if you read the topic,The point is whether i should actualy put time to responding to his post. Thats the point.
I respect, him, i just dont GET him
And actually i use alot so scripture, i yesturday and this mourning, i was just stating scripture all day. and i did the john 10 analysis verse by verse.
This is not a debate, i just wanted to know if anti-trins take his comments seriousily as a point.
actually i say AND more than but.
and my threads are always super long, including scripture.
Im not tryin to insult no one,
im new here, and at first seeing nick responses kindof bothered me.
and i saw how ppl wasted time debating him, and how ppl held his points.
so again. that was my point and intent.
I do respect him.
I just dont know him.
Quote (david @ May 22 2010,13:27) Quote arnt they both moderators? T8 (aka, "heaven") runs this joint.
He has allowed Nick (who generally believes the same things as T8) to moderate. Nick is on here a lot more, but T8 is on here a lot more regularly, steady.)They are both moderators.
T8 and Nick differ on certain subjects:
T8 believes that Jesus is a malakh (angel/messenger) Nick thinks that's essentially blasphemy, despite the fact that the Bible plainly says this.
T8 believes that God does not torture people in a firey hell for all eternity. Nick does.
T8 spends more time on the evolution, science stuff. Nick spends more time asking questions and not answering them. They both have their strong suits, medicine, being Nicks.
t8 believes that Jesus is a prophesied messenger along with John the Baptist. t8 doesn't believe that Jesus is a Seraph or Cherub.Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, behold, he comes, says Jehovah of host
The word 'messenger' and 'angel' are the same word. Not all angels (messengers) are cherubs or seraphs.
Quote (terraricca @ May 22 2010,11:16) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 21 2010,20:51) Quote (david @ May 20 2010,16:35) It's true, if somehow Nick actually agrees with what you are saying, he will ignore what you are saying, and accuse you of being a JW. Well, that's my experience.
Wow thats just too funny.
thats what im talking about, should we really hold his points as valid, yet others do… whatever.. its all good.actualy t8 makes very good arguements and actualy contributes more. from what i see.
arnt they both moderators?
i actually lost track of this thread, i didnt see that it was moved but im glad it still exists!
i think Terrarica is starting to follow the footsteps of Nick but in a more confusing manner.
SFjust because you are still guided by men views, and not by the spirit of Christ,everything as to be spelled out to you in words clearly laid out.
and i also see that you never take in account the things you have already learn or that you really know,this will bring you back all the time to the beginning of all things and no progress can be made that way.
so tell me what do you really believe in the bible that you know for sure??
I think your turning into Nick in a broader sense.You make assumptions with no claims.
and your last question makes no sense.
unlike you, i will explain why. because discussin with you is also like talking in circles.
i know my grammer is horrible at times, and i have alot of spellling errors but there are times that i just dont get what your saying. are you american? what country are you from?
maybe im just misunderstanding things. idk.First thing you said: you state i am guided by mens view. this is a opinion not a fact. Why dont you ask the Spirit whether this is true or not.
You say im not guided by the Spirit of Christ. ok tell me how.
Again how are you helping me?lets say you are right. are you helping me in anyway, if anything your judgeing me. which i am not doing.
I do not judge your intelligence, or personality, i dont know if you are good person or a bad person. I do not say that you do have Christ spirit or not.
such claims are personal comments, you should refrain from that. Thats my point of the whole thread, should i really consider such comments if you are in some way insulting me, makeing my comments and opinon less based on your perception of me?
I never take account? "I never" is a dangerous claim and accusation. Are you really sure about that. Your not God, you shouldnt be able to say such things, without having fear in your very soul for claiming to know me and my life when you do not. You can only judge me by what i have written, so you shuldnt judge at all. You should also speak to the Spirit about that.
notice how you say YOU SEE, and not what the spirit sees… intresting. what does scripture tell you about that.
and again your last questions makes no sense
What do i really blieve in the bible? that i know for sure?
I do believe in the Bible, and everything that it says. so whats your point?
Let me give you my analysis on you:
You speak in circles,
argue points that i clearly agree on you on,
and use verses on points that you disagree on but have nothing to do with the subject.
You want to tell people to only believe what the Spirit interprets but not on our own understanding.
here is what i feel about you:
I feel that when you read my posts, you first already take a defensive position to everything i write, so you dont consider anything i say.
in other words, when you read my points, i feel that you automaticaly thinks its wrong.
Dennisons Post: alfjaskjdflsk
qoute"askjlflaskdj
adfjlaskj qouetewrong, wrong, wrong wrong, becaue of this verse, yet i wont explain it. but its wrong.
Spirit he is wrong, show him he is wrong, how do i show him he is wrong, Spirit he does not rely on you but on mans knowledge.
im not trying to insult you, im telling you how i feel about how you react to my responses. I could be wrong, how would i know, im not you. you tell me.
Communication is the key here.
If i were to make what i feel, true, than thats me trying to judge you. Note: that i said feel/ my perception of you.
I dont know, it seems you just want battle with me if anything.
thats ok,
I realy dont need that, i want to grow and understand just like everyone else. so you should stop with your personal assumtions and acusations of me.
You could actually hurt my feelings one of these days.
Much love for you fertile land/ Pierre
SF
you say;I think your turning into Nick in a broader sense.
You make assumptions with no claims.
and your last question makes no sense.
unlike you, i will explain why. because discussin with you is also like talking in circles.
my last question to you;;so tell me what do you really believe in the bible that you know for sure??
this question does not make sense to you,and yet should be of the most importance,this establish things you know for sure,we as students of the scriptures have learn many things the scriptures are saying to us,and believe to be true ,not because they have been taught to us by others but because we have study them,and so become ours,
like is god a trinity or not,or is Jesus God or his Son,or can we trust the scriptures or not,how can we be save or condemned,what is the way to God or to the world,what is the spirit of Christ and the spirit of the world,what is a righteous and what is an unrighteous in God sight,what is the difference between the OT and the NT,if someone believe in the scriptures of God would this imply he also believe in the true God,can someone have faith without the deeds of that faith,are we to accept the scriptures over our religion denomination or the other way around,is opinion in some subject mean truth or just opinions,should all our believe be in line with the scriptures if we claim to be true Christians?these are some of my question in that question i would see you to answer ,but you say it did not make sense to you,does it make sense now??
there are more question than those i have mention ,were the answer becomes the foundation of our faith in the true God or some other God as a look a like.
Quote (t8 @ May 22 2010,16:17) Quote (david @ May 22 2010,13:27) Quote arnt they both moderators? T8 (aka, "heaven") runs this joint.
He has allowed Nick (who generally believes the same things as T8) to moderate. Nick is on here a lot more, but T8 is on here a lot more regularly, steady.)They are both moderators.
T8 and Nick differ on certain subjects:
T8 believes that Jesus is a malakh (angel/messenger) Nick thinks that's essentially blasphemy, despite the fact that the Bible plainly says this.
T8 believes that God does not torture people in a firey hell for all eternity. Nick does.
T8 spends more time on the evolution, science stuff. Nick spends more time asking questions and not answering them. They both have their strong suits, medicine, being Nicks.
t8 believes that Jesus is a prophesied messenger along with John the Baptist. t8 doesn't believe that Jesus is a Seraph or Cherub.Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, behold, he comes, says Jehovah of host
The word 'messenger' and 'angel' are the same word. Not all angels (messengers) are cherubs or seraphs.
Just for the sake of reference, this is where I got what you believe:https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=520
In the pages before, Kerwin had said:
“We know that Jesus is not and angel because we are told just that in Hebrews.”T8, you responded:
"Actually that is an assumption on your part.First off, it says to which of the angels, and then points to the son. This can equally be read as him not being an angel and being an angel too. Try reading it with the understanding that he is an angel and it also makes sense."
Nick will not even let that idea enter his mind. This is the difference I was referring to. I'm sure you have other differences, but the hellfire, and this are the only two real ones that have been discussed at any length, as far as I can tell.
Quote (terraricca @ May 23 2010,04:25) SF you say;I think your turning into Nick in a broader sense.
You make assumptions with no claims.
and your last question makes no sense.
unlike you, i will explain why. because discussin with you is also like talking in circles.
my last question to you;;so tell me what do you really believe in the bible that you know for sure??
this question does not make sense to you,and yet should be of the most importance,this establish things you know for sure,we as students of the scriptures have learn many things the scriptures are saying to us,and believe to be true ,not because they have been taught to us by others but because we have study them,and so become ours,
like is god a trinity or not,or is Jesus God or his Son,or can we trust the scriptures or not,how can we be save or condemned,what is the way to God or to the world,what is the spirit of Christ and the spirit of the world,what is a righteous and what is an unrighteous in God sight,what is the difference between the OT and the NT,if someone believe in the scriptures of God would this imply he also believe in the true God,can someone have faith without the deeds of that faith,are we to accept the scriptures over our religion denomination or the other way around,is opinion in some subject mean truth or just opinions,should all our believe be in line with the scriptures if we claim to be true Christians?these are some of my question in that question i would see you to answer ,but you say it did not make sense to you,does it make sense now??
there are more question than those i have mention ,were the answer becomes the foundation of our faith in the true God or some other God as a look a like.
Terrarica, im coming to the point where im going to start ignoring your post if i see that they do not make sense.and my advice, so that i can clearly see what i wrote and what you wrote, start qouting what i said.
you do that by clicking the qoute buttoen and than click it again, annd put what i said in between. i didnt get it either until someone told me how too.
If your going to attack, or make claims, the burden of proof is on you to tell me what you said is valid.
YES THE QUESTION MAKES SENSE NOW!!
wow we are progressing, i believe im starting to see hope.lol Im not going to answer those questions. its too many.
Thats the point of the forum. If you want to know my exact position in belief, than make a thread about it, and ASK EVERYONE about their position. I was actually thinking last night abotu doing that. But it seems your ideas, and mine are one yet we agree again!! is this like the fourth or fifth time already?again, im not going to put myself out there, and being attacked by you and others, just becuase you asked. Why dont you be the example, and start off the topic with yoru own testimony, and than let others share. And maybe ill include mine.
to continue
Im only asking for the burden of proof for validation of claim and reponses. as in explantions that make sense, doesnt mean you have to agree with me. just make sense.and even though your word choice, and the way you asked your questions kindof making it confusing for me to understand you. Finaly you do make some sense. not your words your intent. like this sentance doesnt make sense.
Quote these are some of my question in that question i would see you to answer ,but you say it did not make sense to you,does it make sense now??
How do you have many questions in a question? how was i suppose to understand that by the first questioned that you posted? and how would you SEE me to answer?are you trying to be preachy with all your word chocies or something? I do not understand why you write like that, i hope you do not speak in this manner in person.
Good night.
God blessBelieve it or not,
I love you,
and if you dont like what i said,
Forgive me.But I love you.
Quote (t8 @ May 22 2010,16:17) Quote (david @ May 22 2010,13:27) Quote arnt they both moderators? T8 (aka, "heaven") runs this joint.
He has allowed Nick (who generally believes the same things as T8) to moderate. Nick is on here a lot more, but T8 is on here a lot more regularly, steady.)They are both moderators.
T8 and Nick differ on certain subjects:
T8 believes that Jesus is a malakh (angel/messenger) Nick thinks that's essentially blasphemy, despite the fact that the Bible plainly says this.
T8 believes that God does not torture people in a firey hell for all eternity. Nick does.
T8 spends more time on the evolution, science stuff. Nick spends more time asking questions and not answering them. They both have their strong suits, medicine, being Nicks.
t8 believes that Jesus is a prophesied messenger along with John the Baptist. t8 doesn't believe that Jesus is a Seraph or Cherub.Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, behold, he comes, says Jehovah of host
The word 'messenger' and 'angel' are the same word. Not all angels (messengers) are cherubs or seraphs.
hi t8,I see that you disagree with Mikes referense with you.
Maybe we should make a thread or profile that can show eachother exactly what we believe?
Do you think that is a good idea?
or is it bad?
It could help with our understanding.I see a big problem is because we dont know eachother, we are reacting to eachother as strangers and cant seem to get close enough. The only way to understand eachother, is to get to know eachother.
what do you think?
I think i need to apologize to Nick Hassan,
Apparently there are other people that are worse.
I rather pick whats less complicated.
Quote (david @ May 22 2010,13:27) Quote arnt they both moderators? T8 (aka, "heaven") runs this joint.
He has allowed Nick (who generally believes the same things as T8) to moderate. Nick is on here a lot more, but T8 is on here a lot more regularly, steady.)They are both moderators.
T8 and Nick differ on certain subjects:
T8 believes that Jesus is a malakh (angel/messenger) Nick thinks that's essentially blasphemy, despite the fact that the Bible plainly says this.
T8 believes that God does not torture people in a firey hell for all eternity. Nick does.
T8 spends more time on the evolution, science stuff. Nick spends more time asking questions and not answering them. They both have their strong suits, medicine, being Nicks.
Thanks for the explanation, now i can understand them better.
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