- This topic has 317 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 2 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 18 2011,20:39) Adam, Spirit of righteousness is the driving force of the soul. Compare it to the spirit of arogance, or rebellion, etc. Since true righteousness comes from God the spirit of true righteousness also comes from God.
The last I knew Jews teach the same. I will check though.
The spirit of man is no longer righteous as he went in search of many schemes.
That last is a paraphrase of a scripture from the Old Testiment. Do you know which one?
Can you please quote verses from O.T to support your views on Spirit of righteousness required for obedience to God's Laws?Adam: Thanks for your response. As I meditate on the “origin” of sin it is conspicuous by its absense. Since in the KJV Bible the word sin is not used until the forth chapter it tends to fall short as an original sin being in the Garden of Eden or as a disobedience unto God. Was the word sin used in the Garden of Eden story of the Hebrew Bible! If God is love he doesnt command as the english word would suggest.
Bid, give suggestion would be more in line with love. Love never forces. If you take the force out of Gods teaching to Adam you find like now what was set before Adam was good and evil and a choice. I believe all mankind has the same choice. Believe in good or believe in evil/death/destruction etc. But you will reap what you sow!“Sin” is the crux of the entire religious world. It was used at chapter four of Genesis and maybe one other place in all of Genesis! The term sin used in Ch.4 was not the effort of the offerings, it was not the offerings themselves, it was not the presentation of the offerings it seems to me to be the attitude of Cain for his wrothful feelings against Abel because his was accepted. The lord said, to cain, “sin is at the door”. I personally think he was referring to the “door” of Cains heart. Cain was holding anger/hate against Abel. The key here is what was the sin. He had not done anything right or wrong as a “sin”! Yet sin was at the door of his heart.
I tend to believe that sin has always been contemplating in the mind a hurt against someone else. An intended hurt will eventually manifest as a hurt. Jesus said the most important thing is to make ammends with forgiveness to clear the mind for free flowing energy of love once again. Any form of destructive thinking blocks love flowing freely and causes dis-ease within. That why it is more important to clear the mind of all evil than to try to stop evil actions that started in the mind first. Along this line is this truth. If we see ourselves and sinfree through Jesus(for whatever reason) and purified, cleansed, worthy, righteous through his work then our minds are completely clear of any obsticals or blockages of love energy which is all purifying and cleansing, healing, absolute life. Then we would sow love and peace and harmony into the world and the world would love in return. Hence, heaven on earth! IMO, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 18 2011,22:10) Adam: Thanks for your response. As I meditate on the “origin” of sin it is conspicuous by its absense. Since in the KJV Bible the word sin is not used until the forth chapter it tends to fall short as an original sin being in the Garden of Eden or as a disobedience unto God. Was the word sin used in the Garden of Eden story of the Hebrew Bible! If God is love he doesnt command as the english word would suggest.
Bid, give suggestion would be more in line with love. Love never forces. If you take the force out of Gods teaching to Adam you find like now what was set before Adam was good and evil and a choice. I believe all mankind has the same choice. Believe in good or believe in evil/death/destruction etc. But you will reap what you sow!“Sin” is the crux of the entire religious world. It was used at chapter four of Genesis and maybe one other place in all of Genesis! The term sin used in Ch.4 was not the effort of the offerings, it was not the offerings themselves, it was not the presentation of the offerings it seems to me to be the attitude of Cain for his wrothful feelings against Abel because his was accepted. The lord said, to cain, “sin is at the door”. I personally think he was referring to the “door” of Cains heart. Cain was holding anger/hate against Abel. The key here is what was the sin. He had not done anything right or wrong as a “sin”! Yet sin was at the door of his heart.
I tend to believe that sin has always been contemplating in the mind a hurt against someone else. An intended hurt will eventually manifest as a hurt. Jesus said the most important thing is to make ammends with forgiveness to clear the mind for free flowing energy of love once again. Any form of destructive thinking blocks love flowing freely and causes dis-ease within. That why it is more important to clear the mind of all evil than to try to stop evil actions that started in the mind first. Along this line is this truth. If we see ourselves and sinfree through Jesus(for whatever reason) and purified, cleansed, worthy, righteous through his work then our minds are completely clear of any obsticals or blockages of love energy which is all purifying and cleansing, healing, absolute life. Then we would sow love and peace and harmony into the world and the world would love in return. Hence, heaven on earth! IMO, TK
Amazing post it is brother Tim. I can only say Amen to that excellent interpretation on Sin. There you are again there was no Original sin involved here. Yes you are absolutely right in saying that Sin is some thing to with mind and thinking before it actually becomes an act. Therefore it is defined by a Jew that sin is not condition but an action. An action first takes birth in the mind of a man. I hope there is much to come from youPeace to you again
AdamAdam: Thanks again for the love. I would love to further my opinion of the original fall of man. Knowing that sin originates within the minds of individuals. It seems to me that man never fell away from God, he only believed that he did. God is everywhere, where would he go? Man created his own sin, judged himself as guilty and left God (though by illusion not truth) An illusion of God truth is something a man believes is true but is not truth from God. If for whatever reason, as individual uses his free flowing God/Love in his mind to stop flowing/ as thoughts of anger or evil have instantly blocked the power, surging, energy force of love/God within.
The person yells, curses, blowes out discordant backing up energy, sighs and is temporarilly relieved of any further form of destructive energy. Perhaps this is what happens when we stub our toe or hammer our thumb or any mistake that causes pain. If we relieve ourselves by unblocking the plug of discordant energy and quickly as possible forget the problem we heal the mistake and relieve the pain as love flows again. If we hold a grudge against someone or even something and ponder it and intend it destroyed or harmed or see it
corrected of its wrong and not yours, your powerful mind sends those powerful discordant energies out into the ether only to return even more powerful having attracted more like energy toward you, not the other person. He has his own energy field to deal with. His Kingdom within. He is not hurt from your evil projections. YOU are hurt to a degree by the very projections you project forth(sow) to hurt another, returning to you stronger than they were. This is the classic truth of sowing and reaping.
Jesus said when an evil spirit(hurtfull words) is cast out(sent forth) a his house/person, it goes through dry/loveless places and finds seven more evil spirits, worse than itself, and they return to the temple/house and find it clean, but go in and make it worse than it was before. This is what I believe happens when people don't recognize their God given power of love. When they don't know that evil, hate and discord that you project comes back even worse than before then they end up destroying themselves and the rest of the world too!
Jesus worked with clearing and cleansing the mind/heart of the people. Every truth to be believed without an action. The old covenant tried to do good deeds first and then be good in their own eyes. The new Covenant says you are made perfect and clean and righteous through the words of Jesus. If you baptize away(brain wash) the works way with physical water and emmerse youself with the Holy spirit/water of the word of God, to the point of recognizing your perfection, that will produce fruit of itself. In other words peace and love within will produce peace and love outside. Thats the good fruit produced by a good tree with good in it. IMO, Thank you for reading, TK
Tim Kraft…………….Good Post brother, we are indeed renewed by the renewing of our minds, “being transformed by the renewing of our minds”.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene
Quote (Baker @ Jan. 18 2011,21:20) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 18 2011,15:00) Adam, Man is born with a spirit. Is that spirit the spirit of righteousness?
Have you studied these things in scripture or do you instead choose to take the opinions of others as true without testing them?
I have asked you to look up things in scripture and yet to receive evidence you have.
kerwinMan is NOT born with a spirit, only with the ability to develop a spirit/mind.
Zec 12:1 ¶ The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and “”formeth the spirit of man”” within him.
Georg
bump for kerwinQuote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 19 2011,00:30) Adam: Thanks again for the love. I would love to further my opinion of the original fall of man. Knowing that sin originates within the minds of individuals. It seems to me that man never fell away from God, he only believed that he did. God is everywhere, where would he go? Man created his own sin, judged himself as guilty and left God (though by illusion not truth) An illusion of God truth is something a man believes is true but is not truth from God. If for whatever reason, as individual uses his free flowing God/Love in his mind to stop flowing/ as thoughts of anger or evil have instantly blocked the power, surging, energy force of love/God within. The person yells, curses, blowes out discordant backing up energy, sighs and is temporarilly relieved of any further form of destructive energy. Perhaps this is what happens when we stub our toe or hammer our thumb or any mistake that causes pain. If we relieve ourselves by unblocking the plug of discordant energy and quickly as possible forget the problem we heal the mistake and relieve the pain as love flows again. If we hold a grudge against someone or even something and ponder it and intend it destroyed or harmed or see it
corrected of its wrong and not yours, your powerful mind sends those powerful discordant energies out into the ether only to return even more powerful having attracted more like energy toward you, not the other person. He has his own energy field to deal with. His Kingdom within. He is not hurt from your evil projections. YOU are hurt to a degree by the very projections you project forth(sow) to hurt another, returning to you stronger than they were. This is the classic truth of sowing and reaping.
Jesus said when an evil spirit(hurtfull words) is cast out(sent forth) a his house/person, it goes through dry/loveless places and finds seven more evil spirits, worse than itself, and they return to the temple/house and find it clean, but go in and make it worse than it was before. This is what I believe happens when people don't recognize their God given power of love. When they don't know that evil, hate and discord that you project comes back even worse than before then they end up destroying themselves and the rest of the world too!
Jesus worked with clearing and cleansing the mind/heart of the people. Every truth to be believed without an action. The old covenant tried to do good deeds first and then be good in their own eyes. The new Covenant says you are made perfect and clean and righteous through the words of Jesus. If you baptize away(brain wash) the works way with physical water and emmerse youself with the Holy spirit/water of the word of God, to the point of recognizing your perfection, that will produce fruit of itself. In other words peace and love within will produce peace and love outside. Thats the good fruit produced by a good tree with good in it. IMO, Thank you for reading, TK
Hi brother Tim,
I could not understand the logics behind your post above. I know in the New Covenant God promised to write His laws on the hearts of people of Israel. There is nothing said about Jesus involvement in that process. This is where I differ with Christian New Covenant. I can agree with you on the explanation of sin having the mental beginning. I look forward for more on how Jesus' death become an atonement for sin.Peace and love to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Jan. 18 2011,14:41)
Yes you are right Adamic sin is not Original neither Lucifer's sin as you claim. All individual sins should require repentance before God. Atonement was not demanded always. In fact there was no atonement done for Adamic sin either. Only in the Law of God given through Moses God intended atonement for sin through blood as well as non-blood sacrifices for unintentional sins. It is purely the Christian interpretation that Vicarious atonement of Jesus was required for sin atonement which is not supported by Hebrew Bible. Rom 5 is purely Paul's interpretation. Some Scholars still feel that there is no Original sin mentioned in Rom 5. Paul simply says sin entered the world through first man Adam but not that his sin caused all to sin. Man is born innocent even today just like first man and he has been given a freedom (but not Free Will) to choose good and evil similar to what Adam was given. God forgave sins of exiled Jews even without any sacrifice or offering even today He forgives His people who are without Temple and sacrifices. I don't agree with the logics of NT writers on Vicarious atonement of Jesus.Peace to you
Adam
Hi Adam,We been through this before; do you remember?
I asked how God got the animal skins which were Given to Adam,
and you replied: (in essence) God killed the animals and skinned their hides off.
So the “FACT” of the matter is: the animals provided 'atonement' for Adam's sin; do you agree?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Baker @ Jan. 18 2011,21:20) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 18 2011,15:00) Adam, Man is born with a spirit. Is that spirit the spirit of righteousness?
Have you studied these things in scripture or do you instead choose to take the opinions of others as true without testing them?
I have asked you to look up things in scripture and yet to receive evidence you have.
kerwinMan is NOT born with a spirit, only with the ability to develop a spirit/mind.
Zec 12:1 ¶ The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and ““formeth the spirit of man”” within him.
Georg
Hi Dr. Georg,This is another way of saying YHVH is the potter and we are his clay.
What you have posted here does (in no way) indicate that God didn't
(according to Georg) give us our spirit at our conception in the womb!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2011,14:42) Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 18 2011,14:41)
Yes you are right Adamic sin is not Original neither Lucifer's sin as you claim. All individual sins should require repentance before God. Atonement was not demanded always. In fact there was no atonement done for Adamic sin either. Only in the Law of God given through Moses God intended atonement for sin through blood as well as non-blood sacrifices for unintentional sins. It is purely the Christian interpretation that Vicarious atonement of Jesus was required for sin atonement which is not supported by Hebrew Bible. Rom 5 is purely Paul's interpretation. Some Scholars still feel that there is no Original sin mentioned in Rom 5. Paul simply says sin entered the world through first man Adam but not that his sin caused all to sin. Man is born innocent even today just like first man and he has been given a freedom (but not Free Will) to choose good and evil similar to what Adam was given. God forgave sins of exiled Jews even without any sacrifice or offering even today He forgives His people who are without Temple and sacrifices. I don't agree with the logics of NT writers on Vicarious atonement of Jesus.Peace to you
Adam
Hi Adam,We been through this before; do you remember?
I asked how God got the animal skins which were Given to Adam,
and you replied: (in essence) God killed the animals and skinned their hides off.
So the “FACT” of the matter is: the animals provided 'atonement' for Adam's sin; do you agree?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I am sorry I don't see any atonement in Genesis for Adamic sin. God made clothes of animal skin that doesn't prove any atonement for sin. It is purely Christian imagination which is not supported by Hebrew Bible.Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 19 2011,14:58) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2011,14:42) Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 18 2011,14:41)
Yes you are right Adamic sin is not Original neither Lucifer's sin as you claim. All individual sins should require repentance before God. Atonement was not demanded always. In fact there was no atonement done for Adamic sin either. Only in the Law of God given through Moses God intended atonement for sin through blood as well as non-blood sacrifices for unintentional sins. It is purely the Christian interpretation that Vicarious atonement of Jesus was required for sin atonement which is not supported by Hebrew Bible. Rom 5 is purely Paul's interpretation. Some Scholars still feel that there is no Original sin mentioned in Rom 5. Paul simply says sin entered the world through first man Adam but not that his sin caused all to sin. Man is born innocent even today just like first man and he has been given a freedom (but not Free Will) to choose good and evil similar to what Adam was given. God forgave sins of exiled Jews even without any sacrifice or offering even today He forgives His people who are without Temple and sacrifices. I don't agree with the logics of NT writers on Vicarious atonement of Jesus.Peace to you
Adam
Hi Adam,We been through this before; do you remember?
I asked how God got the animal skins which were Given to Adam,
and you replied: (in essence) God killed the animals and skinned their hides off.
So the “FACT” of the matter is: the animals provided 'atonement' for Adam's sin; do you agree?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I am sorry I don't see any atonement in Genesis for Adamic sin. God made clothes of animal skin that doesn't prove any atonement for sin. It is purely Christian imagination which is not supported by Hebrew Bible.
Hi Adam,Was it merely a coincidence that Abel (Adam's son) slew a lamb? Please answer?
This is exactly what YHVH did concerning Jesus; do you not see?
You still have not addressed another “Shadow Picture”:
God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac?Gen.22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb
for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. (Gen.22:2-14)Jehovah-jireh: “The LORD will see” or “The LORD will provide”
YHVH saw the sin (of the world), and provided vicarious atonement for it!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgPlease don't teach these age old myths of Christianity which I learnt from my childhood. There was no sin atonement mentioned in all those examples you quoted above. Please change the direction of your concentration and quote your views on Original sin and vicarious atonement instead of putting questions to me.
Peace to you
AdamHi Adam,
I offer “proofs' from the “Hebrew Scriptures”,
why are you unwilling to discuss these thing?Hi Adam,
I offer “proofs' from the “Hebrew Scriptures”,
why are you unwilling to discuss these things?Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Edit: For grammatical error.Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 19 2011,14:54) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 18 2011,21:20) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 18 2011,15:00) Adam, Man is born with a spirit. Is that spirit the spirit of righteousness?
Have you studied these things in scripture or do you instead choose to take the opinions of others as true without testing them?
I have asked you to look up things in scripture and yet to receive evidence you have.
kerwinMan is NOT born with a spirit, only with the ability to develop a spirit/mind.
Zec 12:1 ¶ The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and ““formeth the spirit of man”” within him.
Georg
Hi Dr. Georg,This is another way of saying YHVH is the potter and we are his clay.
What you have posted here does (in no way) indicate that God didn't
(according to Georg) give us our spirit at our conception in the womb!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Give it time, yours is still forming.Georg
Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 19 2011,15:50) They are no proofs for sin atonement at all.
Lev 9:7 And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the LORD commanded.Lev 16:6 ¶ And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.
Georg
Quote (Baker @ Jan. 19 2011,16:11) Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 19 2011,15:50) They are no proofs for sin atonement at all.
Lev 9:7 And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the LORD commanded.Lev 16:6 ¶ And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.
Georg
Hi brother Georg,
I know that is about the atonement for (unintentional) sins. But there was no vicarious atonement for Original (Adamic) sin as Christianity claims and God did not allow human blood for sin atonement at all in the whole of Hebrew Bible.Peace to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Jan. 19 2011,15:50) They are no proofs for sin atonement at all.
Hi Adam,It would seem you need to study the Hebrew Scriptures a bit more; no?
Lev.17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given
it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls:
for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
