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Today a remarkable phenomenon has hit my understanding, which came through divine revelation.
I asked God to show me and he did in a remarkable way.
Is Jesus God?
The answer is no, he is a reflection of God. Yet as the Sun shines in the sky, we experience it's rays.
So as if God is The Sun, Jesus is his Rays. (Please this is not a literal interpretation, it is a parable.)
And since Jesus is his rays, Jesus too can be worshipped in the same glory as The Father. For Jesus IS the glory of The Father like the Sun's Rays is the Glory of The Sun.
So is the trinity true? It would be foolish for man to understand God's being. God is beyond a trinity. He is everything…the only thing he is not, is sin….Because sin by definition is the opposite of God. But without God, sin could not exist…for it is his opposite.
The Holy Spirit is God's wisdom and intellect…it is a part of him. So when you worship through The Father, Son and Spirit…what you are praising in…is God, his glory, and his wisdom.
Jesus is God's literal Son, and has been made to be our our kin. So we are now related to God The Father because we share a common relation….Jesus. He is God to all things, but not the supreme God himself…Although he is a part of that supremecy, he is not entirely supreme himself…Only The Father is.
Amen.
The word was with God, was God, and was Made flesh.
The glory was with God, was God, and was made flesh.
Jesus is The Glory of God
——————————————————-
There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three are one.
There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, his Glory, and his Wisdom…and these three are one.
Trinitarian when you understand it from a human perspective…but understanding that The Glory is not God himself, and the wisdom is not God himself…should help you understand Jesus and The Holy Spirit's position. That these two are PART of God but do not MAKE UP GOD.
Yes Jesus pre-existed, this isn't a trinitarian view…this is a christian view…and it is established in The Bible.
Creation was made through and by Jesus' Hand which as authored and issued by The Father…They both are and should be credited with creation.
Anti-trinitarians you should esteem Jesus and The Holy Spirit as you do The Father, for they are one in in purpose and being.
Trinitarians you should not take trinitarianism as a stance that Jesus is God himself in a human identity…Jesus is God's glory. And is a part of God.
So when Jesus died on the cross, it was not God himself who died…but his glory…which the world was fashioned from.
So it is equally as important and devastating that his Glory died on The Cross for the worlds were made from this Glory.
Amen.
RM…………better understanding would be GOD is the SUN and Jesus the Moon, and the Saints the Stars all reflect the light from the SUN (GOD) ONE GOD WHO ENLIGHTENS THE WHOLE WORLD and us ALL. IMO
gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,03:38) RM…………better understanding would be GOD is the SUN and Jesus the Moon, and the Saints the Stars all reflect the light from the SUN (GOD) ONE GOD WHO ENLIGHTENS THE WHOLE WORLD and us ALL. IMO gene
If that were the case then any death on the cross would have sufficed for payment for our sins.Gene I will not let you seperate Jesus' special place with God…The Glory of any father is his children.
Jesus is The only begotten Son of God…his place is above all things except his Father…Don't forget, stars are greater than the moon for the Sun is a star, and the Sun analogy wasn't a literal representation for all things, only God's Relationship with his Son.
RM…….There is (ONLY) ONE TRUE source of enlightenment and that is GOD the FATHER, Jesus was His (IMAGE) go and look up that word and you will find (REFLECTION, or MIRROR) Even as the Moon reflects the (SUNS LIGHT). Jesus IMAGED THE FATHER TO US AND SO DO THE SAINTS OF GOD. Your moving Jesus to GOD”S EQUAL is in error, Honoring Jesus is one thing making His Equal to GOD is another. IMO
gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,03:58) RM…….There is (ONLY) ONE TRUE source of enlightenment and that is GOD the FATHER, Jesus was His (IMAGE) go and look up that word and you will find (REFLECTION, or MIRROR) Even as the Moon reflects the (SUNS LIGHT). Jesus IMAGED THE FATHER TO US AND SO DO THE SAINTS OF GOD. Your moving Jesus to GOD”S EQUAL is in error, Honoring Jesus is one thing making His Equal to GOD is another. IMO gene
Gene stop, we're agreeing…I'm not arguing that Jesus is God's reflection.So don't try and argue with me.
Jesus's reflection of God, is God's glory…
His glory to mankind is that he reflected himself to creation in the form of a human being…reconciling Mankind's Bridge with God, from creation to now bretheren.
There is no arguement…I am not putting Jesus in equality with God because just like Paul stated…Jesus's equality with God is not something to be grasped…which means, as men…we cannot say if Jesus is equal to God or not for that understanding is beyond us.
Don't argue with me or scripture, I am not disagreeing with you…you're picking a fight based on my wording, not my meaning…so don't waste my or your time.
If you take a look at me and admire my teeth, it doesn't matter if you are looking directly at me, or looking at me from a mirror…You still admire my teeth.
So whether you worship Jesus or God The Father…you are still worshiping God.
That doesn't mean Jesus is God, but Jesus is God's reflection.
Wrap your mind around that.
Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 14 2009,03:13) The word was with God, was God, and was Made flesh. The glory was with God, was God, and was made flesh.
Jesus is The Glory of God
——————————————————-
There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three are one.
There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, his Glory, and his Wisdom…and these three are one.
Trinitarian when you understand it from a human perspective…but understanding that The Glory is not God himself, and the wisdom is not God himself…should help you understand Jesus and The Holy Spirit's position. That these two are PART of God but do not MAKE UP GOD.
Yes Jesus pre-existed, this isn't a trinitarian view…this is a christian view…and it is established in The Bible.
Creation was made through and by Jesus' Hand which as authored and issued by The Father…They both are and should be credited with creation.
Anti-trinitarians you should esteem Jesus and The Holy Spirit as you do The Father, for they are one in in purpose and being.
Trinitarians you should not take trinitarianism as a stance that Jesus is God himself in a human identity…Jesus is God's glory. And is a part of God.
So when Jesus died on the cross, it was not God himself who died…but his glory…which the world was fashioned from.
So it is equally as important and devastating that his Glory died on The Cross for the worlds were made from this Glory.
Amen.
Hi RM,
God is showing you stuff and 1 Cor 15 may add to that understanding.
But you quote from the KJV in 1 jn5“There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three are one.”
This verse was added to scripture by an overzealous monk in the 1500s desperate to give trinity theory some substance..
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 14 2009,05:41) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 14 2009,03:13) The word was with God, was God, and was Made flesh. The glory was with God, was God, and was made flesh.
Jesus is The Glory of God
——————————————————-
There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three are one.
There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, his Glory, and his Wisdom…and these three are one.
Trinitarian when you understand it from a human perspective…but understanding that The Glory is not God himself, and the wisdom is not God himself…should help you understand Jesus and The Holy Spirit's position. That these two are PART of God but do not MAKE UP GOD.
Yes Jesus pre-existed, this isn't a trinitarian view…this is a christian view…and it is established in The Bible.
Creation was made through and by Jesus' Hand which as authored and issued by The Father…They both are and should be credited with creation.
Anti-trinitarians you should esteem Jesus and The Holy Spirit as you do The Father, for they are one in in purpose and being.
Trinitarians you should not take trinitarianism as a stance that Jesus is God himself in a human identity…Jesus is God's glory. And is a part of God.
So when Jesus died on the cross, it was not God himself who died…but his glory…which the world was fashioned from.
So it is equally as important and devastating that his Glory died on The Cross for the worlds were made from this Glory.
Amen.
Hi RM,
God is showing you stuff and 1 Cor 15 may add to that understanding.
But you quote from the KJV in 1 jn5“There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three are one.”
This verse was added to scripture by an overzealous monk in the 1500s desperate to give trinity theory some substance..
And that is fine and dandy but if you understand who Jesus is, then it doesn't matter what follies anyone tries to create.I personally do not believe anyone could tain scripture in that manner…if God is all-powerful he would not let his word be corrupted.
But even if it was added…understanding Jesus is God's Glory/Reflection, still keeps that verse true, regardless the scribe's intent.
I was mistaken to believe Jesus was God, I am not mistaken to say Jesus is a part of God.
I am not mistaken to esteem Jesus even as the father, for they share the same glory.
I was mistaken for believing in a trinity to describe God's being.
If anything a trinity describes his personifaction to and how he interacts with creation but when you understand the sovereignty of God you understand God is beyond a trinity.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 14 2009,06:06) Hi RM,
I will bring up the thread.
The sunlight is not the Sun is it?
No it is not, but the glory the sunlight brings is of the sun.
As is the Glory of The Father,is The Son.So like I said, Jesus is not God…he is God's glory. Which is Lord over all creation.
Hi RM,
You will find this verse in very few editions of the KJV.[1Jn5.7]
It is not in other translations and removed from later versions of the KJV when it was shown to be added.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 14 2009,06:13) Hi RM,
You will find this verse in very few editions of the KJV.[1Jn5.7]
It is not in other translations and removed from later versions of the KJV when it was shown to be added.
Thanks Nick,
But the verse is irrelevant to my message =P
So why bother debating on if it was added or not, it doesn't effect the fundemental understanding of Jesus' character unless you use it to prove a trinity.And in itself, it doesn't prove that.
So lets comment on the message i'm delivering people, not my words…I used that verse as an example to how this truthful understanding of Jesus makes sense when applied to various, questionable (interpretable) scripture.
Hi RM.
Jesus is the Son of God not part of God.
God enjoined himself to His Son by sharing His Spirit with him at the Jordan.
We now can enjoy the same amazing eternal blessing by following the Son into his death and resurrection[rom6]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 14 2009,06:25) Hi RM.
Jesus is the Son of God not part of God.
God enjoined himself to His Son by sharing His Spirit with him at the Jordan.
We now can enjoy the same amazing eternal blessing by following the Son into his death and resurrection[rom6]
If you understand God Sovereignty you'd understand that everything is a part of God. Nothing is seperate from God except Sin.I believe the Son is the express image of God, first born of all creation…
Does it matter if you don't believe exactly how I believe?? No
I don't think it's a sin to believe Jesus is a part of God The Father, nor do I believe it is a sin that you think Jesus later became a part of God or enjoined.
It's an unimportant arguement that I personally believe God wouldn't care for us to have.
So lets not waste eachother's time and effort on unimportant miniscule ideas.
Remember an image can be ascribed whatever attributes you desire…but in being an Image of God himself…Jesus already obtained a glory above all creation.
God could of left him with no abilities…but in agreement with you Nick, shared his divine spirit with him at Jordan.
Maybe then Jesus came into realization of his true being…but being in the Image of the invisible God…Jesus was sinless from birth up to the Jordan incident and even after…
So aparently his divine image stood for something and had a significant role in who Jesus is.
Hi RM,
We too can have God in us expressing His nature and abilities[eph3.19]by His Spirit.
But we would be like Jesus, ordinary men made extraordinary by God's anointing and eternally enjoining Spirit.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 14 2009,06:54) Hi RM,
We too can have God in us expressing His nature and abilities[eph3.19]by His Spirit.
But we would be like Jesus, ordinary men made extraordinary by God's anointing and eternally enjoining Spirit.
Virgin birth is not ordinary. Jesus Christ is the most influential man to ever exist and his numbers grow as time passes.Jesus is the only person in the bible that by name alone casted out demons. Everyone else had to perform rituals or use Jesus' name.
I'd like to believe he is of God and Man. He was never ordinary…Ordinary men are not prophesied about thousands of years priory…they do not have virgin birth's…they are not sought out to be killed by kings…they are not sinless…they are not called God's only begotten Sons….they are not used as the penalty for Sin, which grants eternal life in the presence of God…they are not given the power to destroy death…they are not given the power to forgive sins….
My friend, Jesus was not an ordinary man.
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