Mt 15

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  • #117457
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Co,
    Have you heard of other gospels?
    Would you listen to them?

    #117490
    martian
    Participant

    From the Ancient Hebrew Research Center —–

    The Aliens

    Is God's covenant then a restricted membership to Israel only? Absolutely not. Any foreigner who wishes to join the community of Israel may do so, by accepting the covenant and taking on the sign of the covenant, circumcision. These foreigners are now considered aliens
    (ger in Hebrew) and are to be treated as one native-born. Continually throughout the Torah, God reminds Israel that they were once aliens in another land and that they are to treat aliens properly.

    The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 19:34)

    In the Exodus 12 passage above we see that an alien must be circumcised, and they are considered as part of the community of Israel.
    The aliens are not only to be treated as a native-born but are also expected to obey God and his Torah just as Israel.

    “You are to have the same laws (mishpat) for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 24:22)

    “The community is to have the same rules (huqah) for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD: The same Torah and regulations (mishpat) will apply both to you and to the alien living among you.” (Numbers 15:15,16)

    Israel Is A Light to the Nations

    Going back to the promise which God made with Abraham, he said, “All the peoples on earth will be blessed through you” (Genesis 12:3). God desires that all people on the earth come to him through his covenant with Israel.

    “I, the LORD, have called you [Israel] in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles”. (Isaiah 42:6)

    “I will also make [Israel] a light for the Gentiles that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth.” (Isaiah 49:6)

    The Hebrew word for Gentiles is “goy” and means nations. God is telling Israel that his redemptive plan for the salvation of all nations will come through them. Throughout the First Covenant, we see some Gentiles entering the assembly, but it is not until many years later where we see Israel bringing in the Gentiles by the thousands in the New Testament fulfilling this prophecy. This will be discussed in part two of this book.

    What Is the Light?

    See, I have taught you decrees (chok – Hebrew word related to huqah) and laws (mitzvot) as the LORD my God commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it. Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to the nations, who will hear about all these decrees (choq) and say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.” What other nation is so great as the have their gods near them the way the LORD our God is near us whenever we pray to him? And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees (choq) and laws (mitzvot) as this body of Torah I am setting before you today? (Deuteronomy 4:5-8)

    As mentioned previously, Israel shows their love to God by keeping his Torah. When the other nations see this love of God and his Torah, they will be marveled at their close relationship, which of course they do not have with their false gods, and they will desire to have that same relationship with the God of Israel.

    And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the LORD Almighty and to entreat him.” This is what the LORD Almighty says: “In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.” (Zechariah 8:22-23)

    Aliens Entering the Community of Israel

    Previously we looked at the “other nations” which joined Israel at Mount Sinai. Throughout the First Covenant we see people of “other nations” joining Israel in the covenant with God. Let us look at one of these examples.
    Ruth, a Moabite, is the daughter-in-law of Naomi, an Israelite. Naomi has lived in Moab with her husband and sons all of whom have passed away, and Naomi decides to leave for her home, Israel. Ruth follows her mother-in-law and tells her.

    “Don't urge me to leave you [Naomi] or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. (Ruth 1:16)

    Once in Israel, Ruth meets Boaz, who is to become her husband. He tells her'

    “May the LORD repay you for what you have done. May you be richly rewarded by the LORD, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to take refuge.” (Ruth 2:12)

    Ruth was not only an alien who has joined Israel but she becomes the grandmother of King David and her descendant is the Messiah Yeshua.

    God's Love and Grace to the Aliens

    Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, “The LORD will surely exclude me from his people.”… For this is what the LORD says:… “foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant – these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.” (Isaiah 56:3,6)

    There is no exclusion from God or his covenant, but equality for those willing to follow him and obey his Torah.

    end quote —

    #117498
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi martian,
    And the Torah points to salvation of Jew and gentile as one in Jesus Christ

    #117508
    martian
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2009,06:55)
    Hi martian,
    And the Torah points to salvation of Jew and gentile as one in Jesus Christ


    exactly right

    #117557
    chosenone
    Participant

    Quote (martian @ Jan. 14 2009,09:29)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2009,06:55)
    Hi martian,
    And the Torah points to salvation of Jew and gentile as one in Jesus Christ


    exactly right


    Hi Martin.
    I am not too familiar with the Torah, but I don't think that it would say that. Jew and Gentile, chosen into the “body of Christ” was not declared until revealed by Paul in His epistles.

    The book of Eph.2:11-12 …11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh — who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands —
    12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.

    The “body of Christ”, and those chosen into it, did not exist until after the death and ressurrection of Christ Jesus.

    Blessings.

    #117696
    martian
    Participant

    If you will – please read the verses I posted such as —
    “The community is to have the same rules (huqah) for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD: The same Torah and regulations (mishpat) will apply both to you and to the alien living among you.” (Numbers 15:15,16)

    It ws the teaching of the Torah that enabled our fathers like Abraham Issaic nd Jacob to die in the Faith. Those not of the nation of Israel who commited themselves to be circymsized and follow the other tennents of the Torah were equal to the native born members of Abraham.
    All being of the circumcision were types and shadows of thoise in the body Christ. It is true they could not “pfficially” be caleed of that body untill Christ but they died in hopes of the savior and with faith toward same.

    #117700
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Martian and Chosenone…………..good posts.

    love and peace to you both………………….gene

    #118289
    NickHassan
    Participant

    CO,
    Where did you dervive the idea that because Jesus was sent to Israel then his teachings were only for them. This is a nonsequitor so presumably you have some other authority for such a strange idea?

    ” His (Jesus) message was to Israel, and them only. “

    #118293
    NickHassan
    Participant

    CO,
    Acts 3:26
    When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

    Even after his resurrection Jesus first went to the Jews
    No prohibition on that gospel being for others.
    Just God's order of priorities

    #118376
    chosenone
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 20 2009,07:03)
    CO,
    Where did you dervive the idea that because Jesus was sent to Israel then his teachings were only for them. This is a nonsequitor so presumably you have some other authority for such a strange idea?

    ”  His (Jesus) message was to Israel, and them only. “


    NH.
    Matt.15:24 … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    You say you follow His teaching, yet you don't believe His word.

    WHAT KIND OF FOLLOWER ARE YOU???

    #118393
    NickHassan
    Participant

    CO,
    So does that mean his teachings are only for Israel?
    Why?

    #118402
    chosenone
    Participant

    NH.
    Read the scripture!

    #118414
    NickHassan
    Participant

    CO,
    We have and it is not written that way is it?
    So why do you play games with the sacred words?

    #118417
    NickHassan
    Participant

    CO,
    Mt 15
    “24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. “

    What sort of glasses do we need to buy for this to also say

    “The teachings of Jesus Christ are only for Israel”?

    #118444
    chosenone
    Participant

    NH.
    Read Matt.15:24.

    #118449
    NickHassan
    Participant

    CO.
    Here it is
    Mt15

    “24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    The message is not even mentioned.
    you are kidding us.

    #118455
    NickHassan
    Participant

    CO,
    Unless you can explain how Mt15.24 confines the teachings of Jesus to Israel
    then fairness demands you should desist from disrupting here the growth of others.

    #118459
    chosenone
    Participant

    NH.
    Just because you don't understand, you shouldn't hinder others from growing in the truth.

    #118460
    NickHassan
    Participant

    CO,
    There are 19 words in the verse and we can all understand each one.
    So which of thopse words limits the message of Jesus to Israel?
    If none do why continue to waste everyone's time here?

    #118464
    chosenone
    Participant

    NH.
    I can't keep explaining to one who can't understand the written word. Get help elsewhere!!!

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