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Hi 94,
A most unusual VISION if it is seen by many and where one of the participants speaks with those seen.I do not believe it was in the nature of a mirage.
Hi:
The name Michael is defined as “who is like God” and could be referring to Joshua the High Priest in the following verses of scripture:
Quote 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: [is] not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
And the disputation to which Jude refers would then be Zec 3:2. The body of Moses would be “Jerusalem whom the Lord has chosen”.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 23 2012,07:54) Hi 94,
A most unusual VISION if it is seen by many and where one of the participants speaks with those seen.I do not believe it was in the nature of a mirage.
Hi Nick:But Jesus said it was a “vision”, and after it, Jesus was still in his flesh and blood body.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Gene Balthrop @ April 22 2012,21:35) Quote (kerwin @ April 22 2012,18:04) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 21 2012,20:06)
Kerwin………..Cant you see how you are adding another perspective to what i said and have not dealt with what i have wrote brother. Jesus could not have been the first raised from the dead to eternal life if others were already. IMOpeace and love to you and yours Kerwin…………………………..gene
Gene,Jesus is not the first raised to raised to eternal life; he is the one by whom all others are raised to life. A few, like the angels, entered beforehand by faith in him, and then subjected themselves to Jesus when he came into the world.
God decided to that mercy to those few, just as he showed it later to Jesus. Their purpose is demonstrate that whether alive or dead; those that please God inherit eternal life.
Kerwin……….Brother cant you see that if Jesus was the firstborn from the dead into eternal life as scriptures say he was , then no other human being could have been raised from the grave before him? this is simple to understand brother. IMOpeace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………………gene
Gene,When he died it is written:
Matthew 27
King James Version (KJV)52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.How do you account for this passage; especially as there is no mention of these saints after they appeared to many?
Quote (kerwin @ April 23 2012,08:12) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 22 2012,21:35) Quote (kerwin @ April 22 2012,18:04) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 21 2012,20:06)
Kerwin………..Cant you see how you are adding another perspective to what i said and have not dealt with what i have wrote brother. Jesus could not have been the first raised from the dead to eternal life if others were already. IMOpeace and love to you and yours Kerwin…………………………..gene
Gene,Jesus is not the first raised to raised to eternal life; he is the one by whom all others are raised to life. A few, like the angels, entered beforehand by faith in him, and then subjected themselves to Jesus when he came into the world.
God decided to that mercy to those few, just as he showed it later to Jesus. Their purpose is demonstrate that whether alive or dead; those that please God inherit eternal life.
Kerwin……….Brother cant you see that if Jesus was the firstborn from the dead into eternal life as scriptures say he was , then no other human being could have been raised from the grave before him? this is simple to understand brother. IMOpeace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………………gene
Gene,When he died it is written:
Matthew 27
King James Version (KJV)52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.How do you account for this passage; especially as there is no mention of these saints after they appeared to many?
Hi Kerwin:This may have been those saints who had recently passed away. The resurrection of the body similar to what happened when Lazarus was raised from the dead. He was raised with a mortal body because the scripture states:
Quote 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 23 2012,08:20) Hi 94,
A vision is something seen.
Not 1 witness but 4
I Know Nick, isn't our God amazing who can show us things to come in groups of one or four or more if he desires to do so.If I read the scriptures correctly, no one, except for Jesus, has at this point has been raised from the dead with a spiritual body.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ April 23 2012,02:48) Hi:
But Jesus also stated that this was a vision, and so, to show that Moses, who represents those under the Law, and Elijah who represents era of the prophets would be transfigured along with him after the resurrection? This was not something that had already occured.He said:
Quote Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. I am not sure what Jude is referring when he speaks about the disputation concerning the body of Moses. There does not seem to be enough scripture to draw any firm conclusions.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Acts 7
King James Version (KJV)30And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
31When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the LORD came unto him,
32Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.
33Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.
34I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.The word translated “vision” is the same word that is translated “sight” in verse 31 above.
Quote (942767 @ April 23 2012,08:30) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 23 2012,08:20) Hi 94,
A vision is something seen.
Not 1 witness but 4
I Know Nick, isn't our God amazing who can show us things to come in groups of one or four or more if he desires to do so.If I read the scriptures correctly, no one, except for Jesus, has at this point has been raised from the dead with a spiritual body.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi 94,
No he was filled with light.
The same is promised for us.2.Matthew 6:22
“ The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light.
3.Matthew 6:23
But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
4.Luke 11:34
The eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is clear, your whole body also is full of light; but when it is bad, your body also is full of darkness.
5.Luke 11:36
If therefore your whole body is full of light, with no dark part in it, it will be wholly illumined, as when the lamp illumines you with its rays.”Hi 94,
We are to become like our Master, full of lightMatthew 5:14
“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;Philippians 2:15
so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world,Quote (kerwin @ April 23 2012,08:38) Marty, It also states they came out of their graves after his resurrection.
Hi Kerwin:True, but it does not say with what body they were raised, and it does not say that they ascended into heaven.
Lazarus also came out of the grave.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 23 2012,08:47) Hi 94,
We are to become like our Master, full of lightMatthew 5:14
“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;Philippians 2:15
so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world,
True.Quote Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Love in Christ,
MartyTo all;
Here are five major facts to be gleaned from Matthew 27:52-53
1) graves were opened when he died
2) many bodies of the saints which slept arose
3) And came out of the graves after his resurrection
4) and went into the holy city
5) and appeared(made report) unto many.These next facts are gleaned from the rest of Scripture
6) It is the only mention of this event.
7) There is no further mention of the risen saints.
8) There is a resurrection in continuation of the mortal life
9) There is a resurrection into eternal life.What reasonable conclusions can be derived by these and other facts gleaned from Scripture.
Kerwin………..Here is a reasonable conclusion .
Psa 104:29……> Thou hidest they face, they are troubled: thou takest away their Breath, they die and return to dust
Ecc 9:5 …..> For the living know that they shall die: but the dead Know not anything, neither have any more a reward: for the memory of them is forgotten [/B V 6….> Also their love, and there hatred, and their envy, is now perished Neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun..
Ecc 9:10…..> Whatsoever thy hand finds to do , do it with thy might: for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, where you go.
This is the conclusion of the matter of a person that has died he has neither root nor branch in the grave where he goes, the ONLY HOPE is in a Resurrection from the GRAVE where we all go when we die, a resurrection that will witness the redemption of our “BODIES”. Just as it say Kerwin. IMO brother
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Hi GB,
Indeed death frees men from their lusts and imaginations and deprives them of any more opportunities.
If they are not safe in Jesus Christ they await the measuring of their lives at judgementGene,
As you quoted; it is written:
Psalm 104:29
New American Standard Bible (NASB)29 You hide Your face, they are dismayed;
You take away their [a]spirit, they expire
And return to their dust.Footnotes:
a.Psalm 104:29 Or breathAnother verse that speaks of the separation of the soul(spirit) from the body at death.
Genesis 35:18
New American Standard Bible (NASB)18 It came about as her soul was departing (for she died), that she named him [a]Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.
Footnotes:
a.Genesis 35:18 I.e. the son of my sorrow
b.Genesis 35:18 I.e. the son of the right handThe body of man is dust; their spirit is breath. It is breath that remains while the body dies and turns to dust. It is the breath that is spoken of in Ecclesiastes 9 for it is written:
Ecclesiastes 9
New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.
It is the body that rots in the ground and the soul that goes to Sheol.
Psalm 89:48
New American Standard Bible (NASB)48 What man can live and not see death?
Can he deliver his soul from the [a]power of Sheol?
Selah.Footnotes:
a.Psalm 89:48 Lit hand
b.Psalm 89:48 I.e. the nether worldAnd
Psalm 16:10
New American Standard Bible (NASB)10 For You will not abandon my soul to [a]Sheol;
Nor will You allow Your [c]Holy One to [d]undergo decay.Footnotes:
a.Psalm 16:10 I.e. the nether world
b.Psalm 16:10 Lit give
c.Psalm 16:10 Or godly one
d.Psalm 16:10 Or see corruption or the pitThe soul is called living only if encased in living flesh. Jesus already used logical reasoning to demonstrate that the souls in Sheol are living.
This is enough to address for now except for the question, “why would Satan and Michael have a dispute over a dead body that would rot?”
Hi KW,
Your foundations are very weak“The soul is called living only if encased in living flesh. Jesus already used logical reasoning to demonstrate that the souls in Sheol are living. “
Written?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2012,02:49) Hi KW,
Your foundations are very weak“The soul is called living only if encased in living flesh. Jesus already used logical reasoning to demonstrate that the souls in Sheol are living. “
Written?
Nick,Do you know of any Scripture that calls the soul a living soul when not encased in living flesh?
Here is one place Jesus is inspired to use logical reasoning in order to teach by the Spirit.
Mark 12
King James Version (KJV)26And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
28And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
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