Moon god?

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ June 17 2010,13:34)

Quote (Ed J @ June 17 2010,14:32)

Quote (karmarie @ June 17 2010,11:18)

Eg, here..
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/index.htm

Hi Karmarie,

Sweet!

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

hah , yeah, I havent finished with you yet either Ed.

I wouldn't agree with that, it's like your putty

June 17, 2010 at 2:52 am#197536

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ June 17 2010,13:32)

Karmarie,

I thought you were only oing to let the Spirit of God guide you to say something useful. God didn't guide you to post what you did and not only that you just threw out some garbage without any explanation or any reason why you would suggest what you did.

I'm not trying to be funny but you may be bipolar you can't seem to stay grounded or know what you actually believe.

As far as ED is concerned why would you not be “finished with him either” If you believe what ED believes which I would imagine you for the most part do why be opposed to him at all.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Revelation 3:15-17

For God's sake BELIEVE in SOMETHING and stop your DOUBLEMINDEDNESS

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
James 1:7-9

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
James 4:7-9

ED,

This is one thing you need to agree with me on

June 17, 2010 at 3:14 am#197547

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2010,02:23)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,00:28)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 16 2010,18:04)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2010,15:08)

Bod, doesnt pre-islamic concept of “allah” comes from the moon god of the arabs?

No, In-fact Christian Arabs and Jewish Arabs were already calling God “ALLAH” before the revelation came down to Muhammad and that is because ALLAH is Arabic for “THE GOD”

now there have bben pagans in the past who jave thought that Allah or Yahweh was simply another god or a certain god but that was out of ignorance

Bod,

If my history serves me correct, Arab nations originaly called a certain moon god -Al'lah who marrried the sun god and what not and than had children. What warrents do you have to say that early christians called God allah.

Wasnt the father and grandfather of Muhammed have allah within their names?

Allah was not a universal term for God.
You seem to beleive that everyone spoke arabic.
Espeacily in the roman empire.

Pagan practices may have allowed for such a thing just like the pagans view of Yahweh the God of Israel but clearly in The Quran and The Bible these things simply don't exist one of the main things Muhammad is known for is destroying all the false idols that the Pagans and polytheists worshipped.

Historians of the ancient near east offer viewpoints that describe worship of Yahweh as originating in pre-Israelite peoples of the Levant and evolving gradually from polytheism to monolatry to monotheism rather than the traditional view that worship of Yahweh was monotheistic from its beginning with the revelation to Moses at the burning bush.[112] Theophoric names, names of local gods similar to Yahweh, and archaeological evidence are used along with the Biblical source texts to build theories regarding pre-Israel origins of Yahweh worship, the relationship of Yahweh with local gods, and the manner in which polytheistic worship of Yahweh worship evolved into Jewish monotheism.[113]

In pre-Islamic Arabia, gods or goddesses were viewed as protectors of individual tribes, their spirits being associated with sacred trees, stones, springs and wells. As well as being the site of an annual pilgrimage, the Kaaba shrine in Mecca housed 360 idol statues of tribal patron deities. Aside from these gods, the Arabs shared a common belief in a supreme deity called Allah (literally “the god”), who was remote from their everyday concerns and thus not the object of cult or ritual. Three goddesses were associated with Allah as his daughters: Allāt, Manāt and al-‘Uzzá. Monotheistic communities existed in Arabia, including Christians and Jews.[36] Hanifs – native pre-Islamic Arab monotheists – are also sometimes listed alongside Jews and Christians in pre-Islamic Arabia, although their historicity is disputed amongst scholars.[37][38] According to Muslim tradition, Muhammad himself was a Hanif and one of the descendants of Ishmael, son of Abraham.[39]

Essentially when you have those who believe in many “gods” it usually includes the knowledge of God Almighty but not understood that God Almighty actually really is God.

Bod,

no, no, no,

The history i have view has stated that Allah was referred to the Moon God, that most of all as you stated earlier in the thread that many worshiped the Moon God.

Allah was firstly represented that.
Also, that would make since why muslims have the cercent moon everywhere.
Most scholars believe that Muhammed grew up in a pagan religion. His fathers names had allah in it.

what do you think/

June 17, 2010 at 3:44 am#197559

Participant

Bod, thats the funniest excuse , your avoiding what I said. No im not, ask anyone who actually knows me, so, the only thing that confuses me is all the debates here. Im new to this, others have been reading the bible 40 years or more, your just saying that because I used to believe Allah is the same God but then learnt it couldnt be.

Avoidance of what I said Bod. Bad tactic.

Regarding my disagreements with Ed, I was asked by Ed to make any disagreement public not private, as happens in believers place. (which is where we should of taken it) me and Ed believe in the same thing but just have different opinions, thats all.

June 17, 2010 at 4:29 am#197570

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,14:14)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2010,02:23)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,00:28)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 16 2010,18:04)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2010,15:08)

Bod, doesnt pre-islamic concept of “allah” comes from the moon god of the arabs?

No, In-fact Christian Arabs and Jewish Arabs were already calling God “ALLAH” before the revelation came down to Muhammad and that is because ALLAH is Arabic for “THE GOD”

now there have bben pagans in the past who jave thought that Allah or Yahweh was simply another god or a certain god but that was out of ignorance

Bod,

Wasnt the father and grandfather of Muhammed have allah within their names?

Allah was not a universal term for God.
You seem to beleive that everyone spoke arabic.
Espeacily in the roman empire.

Essentially when you have those who believe in many “gods” it usually includes the knowledge of God Almighty but not understood that God Almighty actually really is God.

Bod,

no, no, no,

The history i have view has stated that Allah was referred to the Moon God, that most of all as you stated earlier in the thread that many worshiped the Moon God.

what do you think/

You are incorrect.

the crescent was originally a secular symbol of authority for Muslim rulers, it is now often used to symbolize the Islamic faith. However, it should be noted that the crescent was not a symbol used for Islam by Muhammad or any other early Muslim rulers, as the Islamic religion is, in fact, against appointing “Holy Symbols” (so that during the early centuries of Islam, Muslim authorities simply didn't want any geometric symbols to be used to symbolize Islam, in the way that the cross symbolizes Christianity, the menorah was a commonly-occurring symbol of Judaism, etc.). This is why early Islamic coins were covered with Arabic writing, but contained no visual symbols.

Quote

His fathers names had allah in it.

You mean like Elijah, Jesus, and many others?

June 17, 2010 at 4:34 am#197571

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ June 17 2010,14:44)

Avoidance of what I said Bod. Bad tactic.

Then you should respect ED and not assume he needs to be “fixed” If you agree with me that's fine I would rather know where you stand.

I have no respect at this time for ED because he has cursed God so for you to be floating between us is absolutely unacceptable to me, now I love your heart and intentions and I will not repent or change me mind about that but don't play this sick game.

If you totally are against Islam then do the homework and prove it to be wrong don't just throw any garbage in the conversation.

June 17, 2010 at 5:08 am#197581

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2010,15:29)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,14:14)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2010,02:23)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,00:28)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 16 2010,18:04)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2010,15:08)

Bod, doesnt pre-islamic concept of “allah” comes from the moon god of the arabs?

No, In-fact Christian Arabs and Jewish Arabs were already calling God “ALLAH” before the revelation came down to Muhammad and that is because ALLAH is Arabic for “THE GOD”

now there have bben pagans in the past who jave thought that Allah or Yahweh was simply another god or a certain god but that was out of ignorance

Bod,

Wasnt the father and grandfather of Muhammed have allah within their names?

Allah was not a universal term for God.
You seem to beleive that everyone spoke arabic.
Espeacily in the roman empire.

Essentially when you have those who believe in many “gods” it usually includes the knowledge of God Almighty but not understood that God Almighty actually really is God.

Bod,

no, no, no,

The history i have view has stated that Allah was referred to the Moon God, that most of all as you stated earlier in the thread that many worshiped the Moon God.

what do you think/

You are incorrect.

Quote

His fathers names had allah in it.

You mean like Elijah, Jesus, and many others?

what does this have to do with what i stated.

you just refuted what i said abuot teh crecent moon, how about everything else i said.

The fact is the crecent moon is used as a religous symbol of the muslims, its on every mosque, and even in the dome of rock has a full moon in the center.

the crecent moon has been used for MANY YEARS AS A SYMBOL FOR FALSE GODS. unlike the star of david or the cross. which i believe the cross shouldnt be the symbol for christiantiy but oh well. these symbols were not used to refer to pagan gods but the Moon has been.

and wikipedia is a horrible source by the way.

Quote

You mean like Elijah, Jesus, and many others?

i love it, your running away from the question by asking another question. why cant you directly answer the question.
anyways ill go with the flow of your nonsense.
No Elijah was not named allah, show me a warrant that says such a thing, nor Jesus, nor any others within the bible.

your assuming back than the bible was written only in arabic, when you know it was mostly hebrew.

stop mixing things togethor you have no warrants.

June 17, 2010 at 5:10 am#197582

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2010,15:34)

Quote (karmarie @ June 17 2010,14:44)

Avoidance of what I said Bod. Bad tactic.

Then you should respect ED and not assume he needs to be “fixed” If you agree with me that's fine I would rather know where you stand.

If you totally are against Islam then do the homework and prove it to be wrong don't just throw any garbage in the conversation.

you mean the same garbage you use?
ironic.

proving islam by using the bible.
which you say is corrupted.

nonsense.

June 17, 2010 at 5:31 am#197588

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/index.htm

Participant

Bod, firstly, your avoiding this

Second, what on earth are you talking about – sick game?

Bod, all I did was CARE. About you, about anyone who may be reading here. Im defending what I believe. Im defending the Son of God. I will never be a Muslim, did I not make myself clear on that? You would have to kill me.

The beast of revelation?
How about talking about that instead of avoiding it.?

Bod, I was going to start a thread on this in believers place but decided to bring it up here instead so you could participate.

June 17, 2010 at 11:18 am#197609

Participant

Bod, my faith is strong, though I may get confused, God understands.

You talk about this…

“So — because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am about to vomit thee out of my mouth;”

ok, so why are they vomited out? The next verse says..

“Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,

You cant love God and Money.

When Jesus said he will vomit them out of his mouth, does it sound familiar? Didnt Jonah get vomited out of the fish's mouth?

God speaks, do you listen? Do you pray, then rush away, or stay a while just in case God has something to say also?

June 17, 2010 at 3:02 pm#197624

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,16:08)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2010,15:29)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,14:14)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2010,02:23)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,00:28)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 16 2010,18:04)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2010,15:08)

Bod, doesnt pre-islamic concept of “allah” comes from the moon god of the arabs?

No, In-fact Christian Arabs and Jewish Arabs were already calling God “ALLAH” before the revelation came down to Muhammad and that is because ALLAH is Arabic for “THE GOD”

now there have bben pagans in the past who jave thought that Allah or Yahweh was simply another god or a certain god but that was out of ignorance

Bod,

Wasnt the father and grandfather of Muhammed have allah within their names?

Allah was not a universal term for God.
You seem to beleive that everyone spoke arabic.
Espeacily in the roman empire.

Essentially when you have those who believe in many “gods” it usually includes the knowledge of God Almighty but not understood that God Almighty actually really is God.

Bod,

no, no, no,

The history i have view has stated that Allah was referred to the Moon God, that most of all as you stated earlier in the thread that many worshiped the Moon God.

what do you think/

You are incorrect.

Quote

His fathers names had allah in it.

You mean like Elijah, Jesus, and many others?

what does this have to do with what i stated.

you just refuted what i said abuot teh crecent moon, how about everything else i said.

The fact is the crecent moon is used as a religous symbol of the muslims, its on every mosque, and even in the dome of rock has a full moon in the center.

and wikipedia is a horrible source by the way.

Quote

You mean like Elijah, Jesus, and many others?

your assuming back than the bible was written only in arabic, when you know it was mostly hebrew.

stop mixing things togethor you have no warrants.

The problem is yo keep creating issues that do not apply if the Religion of Islam is in The Quran and The Quran does not support your “moon Go
d” claim then it cannot apply.

If I said to you Christians believe that Jesus was 8 feet tall and you tell me that is not true and that I could easily pick up the gospels and see if he is that tall or even if it is mentioned. If there would be no reference to his height at all I shouldn't pursue an illogical course of assumption.

You will not find the phrase “Moon God” in the Quran if ALLAH had been some sort of moon god don't you think it would have been mentioned in The Quran?

June 17, 2010 at 5:18 pm#197647

Ed J

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2010,02:02)

The Quran does not support your “moon God” claim then it cannot apply.

Hi BD,

Click Here

June 17, 2010 at 7:57 pm#197661

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2010,02:02)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,16:08)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2010,15:29)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,14:14)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 17 2010,02:23)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,00:28)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 16 2010,18:04)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2010,15:08)

Bod, doesnt pre-islamic concept of “allah” comes from the moon god of the arabs?

No, In-fact Christian Arabs and Jewish Arabs were already calling God “ALLAH” before the revelation came down to Muhammad and that is because ALLAH is Arabic for “THE GOD”

now there have bben pagans in the past who jave thought that Allah or Yahweh was simply another god or a certain god but that was out of ignorance

Bod,

Wasnt the father and grandfather of Muhammed have allah within their names?

Allah was not a universal term for God.
You seem to beleive that everyone spoke arabic.
Espeacily in the roman empire.

Essentially when you have those who believe in many “gods” it usually includes the knowledge of God Almighty but not understood that God Almighty actually really is God.

Bod,

no, no, no,

The history i have view has stated that Allah was referred to the Moon God, that most of all as you stated earlier in the thread that many worshiped the Moon God.

what do you think/

You are incorrect.

Quote

His fathers names had allah in it.

You mean like Elijah, Jesus, and many others?

what does this have to do with what i stated.

you just refuted what i said abuot teh crecent moon, how about everything else i said.

The fact is the crecent moon is used as a religous symbol of the muslims, its on every mosque, and even in the dome of rock has a full moon in the center.

and wikipedia is a horrible source by the way.

Quote

You mean like Elijah, Jesus, and many others?

your assuming back than the bible was written only in arabic, when you know it was mostly hebrew.

stop mixing things togethor you have no warra
nts.

The problem is yo keep creating issues that do not apply if the Religion of Islam is in The Quran and The Quran does not support your “moon God” claim then it cannot apply.

You will not find the phrase “Moon God” in the Quran if ALLAH had been some sort of moon god don't you think it would have been mentioned in The Quran?

Bod,

This is ridiculous!! we are not talking about height here we are talking about orgin!!!

I can easily say that Jesus at some point in his life was 3 feet tall! why because he grew older and he was human. he wasnt a giant. so i can only assume.

the differense here is im takling about islams people, or the muslims people orgin of faith or religion.
You stated these points against christianity, im countering it by saying that Muslims have ties to this moon god.

THE QURAN TALKS ABOUT THIS MOON GOD BECAUSE IT MENTIONS ALLAH,

we are talking about the orgins of allah, pre-islamic.
here is the points you avoided.

1)there is enough proof before muhammed that his fathers names had alllah in it!
2)Allah was used as a pagan God
3) was the God of the moon.
4) the symbol of islam is a crecent moon.
5) every mosque has a moon
6) Muhammed already worshiped this God before gabriel apperanced.
7) Muhammed conveintly changed the deity of the Moon God to be the only God.

June 17, 2010 at 8:30 pm#197667

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2010,04:18)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 18 2010,02:02)

The Quran does not support your “moon God” claim then it cannot apply.

Hi BD,

Click Here

How is that a link to Quranic evidence? It doesn't matter if pagans had heard of ALLAH or not pagans had also heard of YHVH or Yahweh. Abraham had heard of many gods and this is what you need to learn from:

Sura #19 Mary

41 (Also mention in the Book (the story of) Abraham: He was a man of Truth, a prophet.
42 Behold, he said to his father: “O my father! why worship that which heareth not and seeth not, and can profit thee nothing?
43 “O my father! to me hath come knowledge which hath not reached thee: so follow me: I will guide thee to a way that is even and straight.
44 “O my father! serve not Satan: for Satan is a rebel against ((Allah)) Most Gracious.
45 “O my father! I fear lest a Penalty afflict thee from ((Allah)) Most Gracious, so that thou become to Satan a friend.”
46 (The father) replied: “Dost thou hate my gods, O Abraham? If thou forbear not, I will indeed stone thee: Now get away from me for a good long while!”
47 Abraham said: “Peace be on thee: I will pray to my Lord for thy forgiveness: for He is to me Most Gracious.
48 “And I will turn away from you (all) and from those whom ye invoke besides Allah. I will call on my Lord: perhaps, by my prayer to my Lord, I shall be not unblest.”
49 When he had turned away from them and from those whom they worshipped besides Allah, We bestowed on him Isaac and Jacob, and each one of them We made a prophet.
50 And We bestowed of Our Mercy on them, and We granted them lofty honour on the tongue of truth.
51 Also mention in the Book (the story of) Moses: for he was specially chosen, and he was an apostle (and) a prophet.
52 And we called him from the right side of Mount (Sinai), and made him draw near to Us, for mystic (converse).
53 And, out of Our Mercy, We gave him his brother Aaron, (also) a prophet.
54 Also mention in the Book (the story of) Isma'il: He was (strictly) true to what he promised, and he was an apostle (and) a prophet.
55 He used to enjoin on his people Prayer and Charity, and he was most acceptable in the sight of his Lord.
56 Also mention in the Book the case of Idris: He was a man of truth (and sincerity), (and) a prophet:
57 And We raised him to a lofty station.
58 Those were some of the prophets on whom Allah did bestow His Grace,- of the posterity of Adam, and of those who We carried (in the Ark) with Noah, and of the posterity of Abraham and Israel of those whom We guided and chose. Whenever the Signs of ((Allah)) Most Gracious were rehearsed to them, they would fall down in prostrate adoration and in tears.

June 17, 2010 at 9:05 pm#197676

Participant

Actually from the link you provided, it gives even stronger the evidence that ALLAH is the same God as YHVH

June 17, 2010 at 10:55 pm#197707

Participant

Bod, your avoiding the conversation, this thread is -Moon God?- So im trying to ask you to look at prophecy, where is Islam in the bible? The Bible came first.

June 17, 2010 at 11:05 pm#197714

Participant

The religion of Abraham is ISLAM

They say: “Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation).” Say thou: “Nay! (I would rather) the religion of abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah.”
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #135)

Say: “(Allah) speaketh the Truth: follow the religion of abraham, the sane in faith; he was not of the Pagans.”
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #95)

Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of abraham the true in Faith? For Allah did take abraham for a friend.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #125)

Say: “Verily, my Lord hath guided me to a way that is straight,- a religion of right,- the path (trod) by abraham the true in Faith, and he (certainly) joined not gods with Allah.”
( سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #161)

And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer, give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protector – the Best to protect and the Best to help!
( سورة الحج , Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #78)

June 17, 2010 at 11:07 pm#197715

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ June 18 2010,09:55)

Bod, your avoiding the conversation, this thread is -Moon God?- So im trying to ask you to look at prophecy, where is Islam in the bible? The Bible came first.

By the way the Bible is a collection of books and not a single revelation. There is not one single revelation that incudes both the OT and NT besides The Quran

June 17, 2010 at 11:20 pm#197724

Participant

Bod, Islam became such a huge religeon, it isnt the same religeon as the New testement, its growing faster than Christianity if I remember right, so, in the New and old Testement theres 2 things. The first in Zechariah 12

2… “Lo, I am making Jerusalem a cup of reeling To all the peoples round about, And also against Judah it is, In the siege against Jerusalem. 3 And it hath come to pass, in that day, I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone to all the peoples, All loading it are completely pressed down, And gathered against it have been all nations of the earth.”

10…”And I have poured on the house of David, And on the inhabitant of Jerusalem, A spirit of grace and supplications, And they have looked unto Me whom they pierced, And they have mourned over it, Like a mourning over the only one, And they have been in bitterness for it, Like a bitterness over the first-born.”

New Testement,

Revelations 13:10;
If anyone is to be taken captive,
to captivity he goes;
if anyone is to be slain with the sword,
with the sword must he be slain.
Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.

Revelation 13;16 “He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads”

The Beast is worshiped.

I do know that in the Quran it says the mark of prostration is on the forehead and by this they will either enter Heaven or Hell but I dont feel this is a literal mark spoken of but forehead or right hand means mind and actions. Faith, belief, thoughts, actions,

Revelations 13:16; “..and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast.”

Many countries in the Middle East are using an ID card, on the card it states Religion (M for Muslim, C for Christian or J for Jew) The cards are needed for buying (bank accounts), education, medical care, work. Christians in the Middle East feel they are being denied things with these cards…it can only get worse I think.

The “whole world being decieved” could mean just the Middle East (Maps showing Islam and how it has spread are quite amazing).

Imagine with the expected coming Mahdi what could happen (Irans president already believes he is in 'Talks' with this Mahdi)

Revelations 20:4 The souls of those are seen who were beheaded for their testimony of Jesus Word of God.

What other religion in the World so huge has within its writtings that non Muslims should be beheaded? I know of none.

June 18, 2010 at 12:13 am#197740