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I had posted a post on the genetic fallacy. Don’t know what happened to it.
In answer to nicks question and things miia has implied, it doesn’t matter where an idea originates. What matters is if it is true. It is a fallacy to believe something is wrong on the basis of its origin. For example, I don’t just assume that everything nick says is false or inaccurate just because nick said it. To do so would be fallacious.
Hi david,
Many here have told you of the fallacies in JW theology.
Yet you seem to take it personally and attack individuals.
Why is this?
I just checked what Miia just copied and pasted. It seems she is just copying what the watchtower organization is saying. She did what I did!
But I don’t think she read any of it. If she had, I would presume that she would make some sort of rebuttal to the scriptures and reasoning that is used.
I of course go much further than what they said, and have a bit of a different angle because I’ve been a magician for about 30 years and have experience with how people think when it comes to unusual events. How their mind sees what is really not there. How their memory works and how they misremember and reshape the memory each time they play it in their minds. Regardless of what the scriptures say, today, miracles aren’t happening because…there is no compelling evidence for them happening.
But the scriptures give reason to back up this reality. And the articles you quote miia seem to present the strongest case I have seen so far.
Hi david,
You seem to be rather like a mother bird dragging a wing moving away from the nest, feigning vulnerability and drawing the focus to herself rather than her chicks. Then when you get a response you turn on the group in full attack mode.
Do you agree?
Nick,
Why do you think what you think? You know there are those on here who know who I am. You are not one of them. Why do you pretend to be? Given your mad evil world of Warcraft skills I would think you could summon the voodoo magik to get a vision dream and know this. Or have you given it up for God?
Nick, when we met you said you were a doctor. Which doctor I don’t know. But a doctor yes. And that’s all I need to know. I’ll just push every other thought out of my brain and focus on that one sentence from which 12 years ago when you were still a doctor.
You seem to be rather like a mother bird dragging a wing moving away from the nest, feigning vulnerability and drawing the focus to herself rather than her chicks. Then when you get a response you turn on the group in full attack mode.
Nick
It truly disturbed me that a person could be this delusional, this unaware of reality, and still be allowed access to the Internet.
It is only after an average from 25 personal attacks from you that I literally tell you I flipping the switch and doing what you do, that I abandon the actual topic which I started and actually do want to discuss, and behave like you, like an infant baboon. This bothers me so greatly because I truly hate myself for doing it. It bothers me to the core. I hate myself for stop popping to your witch doctor level. I put up with it for years and years hoping you would begin to understand common courtesy, or how communication works, or any hint of interest in discussing actual topics.
If you had it your way, you would just attack me personally for 10 pages until I leave.
But I actually like discussing the bible and bible topics and would love to do so without your unrelated, illogical, personal attacks.
Where is the petition that I started 5 years ago to have you banned from this site?
I think you should go back and read his post. I believe that god is working in our lives. Life itself is a miracle. No one is saying god does not have power. he does… we said MEN DONT… NOT GOD DONT…
UMB5, so if a man told you that God cured him of an illness or disability, who would you attribute that miracle to?
And are you a J.W?
No. Just a clear thinker.
I think you should go back and read his post. I believe that god is working in our lives. Life itself is a miracle. No one is saying god does not have power. he does… we said MEN DONT… NOT GOD DONT…
UMB5, so if a man told you that God cured him of an illness or disability, who would you attribute that miracle to?
And are you a J.W?
No. Just a clear thinker.Miia
Let me ask you: if a Muslim told you that Allah cured him of an illness or disability, who would you attribute that miracle to?Whether I am or am not, is irrelevant to this discussion and practically all discussions on here, unless you are prone to fallacious thinking and need to make such attacks to feel right somehow. I think you should go back and re-read the post. I was answering for that other guy–the guy that actually read the original posts and understood what was being said and rather than attacking religious groups he focused on what was said and wasn’t said.
Miia
Let me ask you: if a Muslim told you that Allah cured him of an illness or disability, who would you attribute that miracle to?David, we are talking about Christianity here.
If a Christian man told you God had cured him of something, who would you attribute that healing to?
If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, you would attribute that miracle to Satan yes?
Have you read Matthew 12:22
Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
For the purpose of this thread, who I am or even what I stand for aren’t relevant to whether or not miracles are happening today the way people think they are.
Hi David.
I think it is relevant, because you started this thread with Watchtower literature copy and pasted, though did not tell us what it was.
I studied with some JWs years ago and went to their meetings a few times.
Since then I have looked deeper into their doctrines.
1) They attribute all of God’s miracles today (healing, deliverance, gifts, dreams, visions, etc) to Satan – that is wrong.
2) They teach people NOT to speak/ fellowship with Jesus. That is wrong.
They seem now to be creeping onto Internet Forums spreading further their errors and lies, though not always telling people who they are.
Correct me if I am wrong anywhere please David.
Miia
Let me ask you: if a Muslim told you that Allah cured him of an illness or disability, who would you attribute that miracle to?
David, we are talking about Christianity here.If a Christian man told you God had cured him of something, who would you attribute that healing to?
If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, you would attribute that miracle to Satan yes?
Have you read Matthew 12:22
Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Hi miia
Yes we are talking about Christians. But I’m attempting some abstract reasoning. The Flynn effect and the increase in iq in the specific area of abstract thinking which is associated with increased morality– being able to put yourself in the other persons shoes, would seem to be one factor in the development of morality in the past couple hundred years. Being able to hypothesize and step out of your own emotionally charged experience and into a very similar one, so that you can judge your own ideas, seems to me to be important to morality.
The teuth is, of course, people of all religions have the same set of miracles. What I find odd is that often, everyone else that has these miracles are thought to be deluded or deceived or deceiving the self, while the individual is personally being blessed by God.
I’m guessing that if a Muslim told you that he was miraculously cured by Allah, you would not believe him.
The next question is why? Well, you might reason: he had a cold, and despite his prayers to Allah, colds do tend to go away by the self. Oh, but this one went away rather fast. So it was a miracle. Is this reasoning sound? Wouldnt the way to know reality be to do an experiment or test and measure everyone who prayed rather than focus on this one anecdote?
If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, you would attribute that miracle to Satan yes?
Perhaps someone that is a Jehovah’s Witness would. I don’t see what your obsession with this is. You are talking to me, and I, would attribute it to self deception, a misunderstanding of proof and evidence, not looking at the whole, the placebo effect, etc.
There is no need to invoke the miraculous when we know the same thing is so commonly done by the human mind itself.
For the purpose of this thread, who I am or even what I stand for aren’t relevant to whether or not miracles are happening today the way people think they are.
Hi David.I think it is relevant, because you started this thread with Watchtower literature copy and pasted, though did not tell us what it was.
I studied with some JWs years ago and went to their meetings a few times.
Since then I have looked deeper into their doctrines.
1) They attribute all of God’s miracles today (healing, deliverance, gifts, dreams, visions, etc) to Satan – that is wrong.
2) They teach people NOT to speak/ fellowship with Jesus. That is wrong.
They seem now to be creeping onto Internet Forums spreading further their errors and lies, though not always telling people who they are.
Correct me if I am wrong anywhere please David.
I wouldn’t know. I have been on and off on this forum for more than 10 years.
If you think it is relevant, I would have to ask why.
I’ve looked at the genetic fallacy. It really is a fallacy. Where information originates from does not intrinsically make it true or false. It being true or false does.
If satan himself were to tell you that you should read the bible….is it false that you should read the bible?
That statement would be true or false regardless of what he said.I have also sometimes noticed jehochas witnesses in YouTube comment sections. Sometimes they say who they are. Other times they don’t.
Miia, I don’t particularly care what skin colour you are or what religion you re or how tall you are. None of that impresses me or concern me. For the purposes of this forum, I am only looking for and establishing truth. If you were to tell me you were an X, and then I disregarded anything you said about a topic and focused on your religion or IQ or anything else, it would not be intellectually honest in my opinion. A person may belong to a religion and be completely deluded. But if he is deluded about a topic, use reason and evidence to show him he is wrong about that topic. Do not use ad hominem type of unrelated distractions.
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