MIRACLES

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  • #799540
    Miia
    Participant

    After all you read about miracles that happened in the Bible, and do not hear about the other times when there were none.

    ‘Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.’

     

    #799541
    david
    Participant

    The violent family, with the screaming,  think I know who mean because I live just next to them but on the other side.

    I remember that loud night also that made you feel scared for them and yourself, because it scared me too.  Half our neighbors must have been scared.

    When I called the police, this time it seemed different.  They were there longer.  Another neighbor told me that he is bipolar and has tried to kill himself more than once but because of what he did to his wife that night, the court ordered him to receive psychiatric help and he was put on anti depressants, and he was also made aware of what he would lose if he had another violent outburst.

    There was no demon inside of him but he was born with a severe mental disorder and he was beaten as a child and so his brain was messed up.   That very bad night was a turning point.  The police told me they had gotten a couple calls already that night about him.

    What bothers me is, I heard that a very simian family live just one street over but no one called for that family and it ended badly.

    I heard of another family, simular situation, but the mom whose name is Karen,  she is suicidal and an ambulance comes every 6 months because of her trying to kill herself.  My mother in law studied the bible with her.  She lives on my street.  Do you think my mother in law ever prays with her, and for her?

    If you actually could go around praying violence away, you should do this more, and do it everywhere.

    #799542
    david
    Participant

    For autism, there is no cure yet.  Anyone who believes their child was cured of autism, that child didn’t have autism.

    1. What did the doctor day when he was cured of autism?  This must have made history and have been written up.  It was probably on the news.

    Was he Confirmed through tests to have autism.  Do tests now show that he doesn’t?  (This feels so much like the apparent curing of partially blind or partial dead people.  But if he truly was autistic and he now truly isn’t, surely this made history.

    Do you know the child’s name?

    #799543
    david
    Participant

    If you know that God reached this man personally and god touched him,  you should go up to this man and ask him about God.  And then you will actually know.

    If this feels awkward, just pretend to be a jw.  Knock on the door.  Ask him how he is doing and perhaps have any brochure on family life handy.  If he is interested in the bible at all, as him about his own life.  If he then says he had a life changing eye opening god event, then we have the beginning of something.

    But if he hates god or doesn’t believe in god or is angry you want to talk about God or is disinterested in god, then we don’t so much have something interesting.

     

    The other thing that my mind is bothered by in your story is that I know people with severe mental illnesses such as extreme hoarding.   Now you can go in their house and you know their mind has severe problems.   But when you see him walking down the street or talk to him, completely normal.

    E en my father in law has depression and the way he behaves in public is different than the way he behaves at home.  If you only saw him outside of his home, you would get a very different impression than if you were a fly on the wall in his home where he feels relaxed and unstoppable.

    #799565
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi david,

    The fact you have never seen a miracle is proof enough for you that God no longer does them?

    Sounds very weak as an anecdotal proof.

    Who are you?

    #799570
    david
    Participant

    Nick

    me not seeing a miracle isn’t why I don’t think miracles aren’t happening today.  Besides what the Bible says, it’s my study of self deception,  bias, perceprual illusion, mental comfort, congnitive illusions, and how evidence works and where the burden of proof lies that make me wonder.

    It’s not that I have not seen a MiraclE. I’ve seen far more things that many would consider miracles in the past year than most have in a lifetime.  It’s what I do every day.   It’s not that I haven’t seen a miracle.  It’s that no one seems to have.

    You mentioned anecdotal proof.  This is exactly it. I’m not relying on anecdotal proof.  For if you study it,  you will quickly find it is the most unreliable proof there is, despite it being used in the legal system so much.

    Memory is not what people think it is.  It is so maluable.  Creating false memories are incredibly easy in others.  And of course in yourself as well.

     

    Nick if I said that I can levitate, as some yogis believe they can (despite themselves either being delusional or just not understanding what levitate means) would you believe me?  Or would you want to at least see a video.  I would ask for the video as a starting point.  And in this case, it would become obvious to most (except the yogis) that they are not flying, but only bouncing.  Bouncing a bit high, sure.  And in their minds, flying. Maybe. But in reality,  bouncing.  So if I said I could fly and there are stories of other people flying and there are these stories of these yogis, would you believe me?  Or would the burden of proof land on me?

     

     

    #799572
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi David,

    Then if you have no faith in these matters and your church agrees with you why should you consider any other options?

    #799575
    kerwin
    Participant

    David,

    I have not seen a miracle and I only know of those that claim to have performed them. I am a doubter by nature so the only miracles I know occur at this time are ones that seem random and are not done by a human instrument.

    Jonah was swallowed by a white shark and the coldness of the water plunged him into human hibernation mode and when the shark got sick and threw him up a few days later near a beach he came out of the hibernation mode. Is this a miracle or a natural occurrence?

    I would call it a miracle but many today would claim it was a natural occurrence as everything I just wrote is theoretically possible.

    #799576
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    You know more about Jonah than scripture reveals?

    #799584
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    I did say it was theoretical.

    Be careful not to be a fault finder.

    #799587
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    So you say that the great white is the fish despite it’s savage ways and relatively small size insufficient for holding any man.

    You say Jonah did not die despite the SIGN OF JONAH being used as an example of the death and resurrection by Jesus.

    You speak of HIBERNATION instead which is a new idea that I am unaware of occurring with any other normal man.

     

    Yet you offer praise to reason and logic though not using it?

    #799589
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    The Great White is the only one that is theoretically capable of swallowing a human whole as they are known to swallow a dusky shark that is a little larger than a human being. It also lives in the Mediterranean as well as other places.

    #799590
    NickHassan
    Participant

    i KW,

    So that is all you need to proclaim it as truth?

    #799591
    david
    Participant

    Something else miia about the type of miracle you suggest. I’m not sure these are miracles as much as answers to prayers. But something else:

    A woman (froline frisa) in Austria was held by her father who for 24 years raped her every day.  Every day, her father raped her. She bore children and he raped them as well.  It was only by accident that she escaped after 24 years.  During the 24 years she prayed every day to God to save her from this torture. 
    If God can listen to her requests every day for 24 years to be freed of this cruelty without intervening, I would have to ask why.

    There are two options the way I see it:
    1. God didn’t answer your prayer about the violent family and he also didn’t answer this girls prayer who was being raped.
    2. God did immediately answer your prayer about the violent family man but didn’t care as much for the girls prayers, the girl who was being raped every day of her life.

    What bothers me and what has bothered many thinkers through time is, why does God care to answer prayers about the mundane things (thank you for blessing us with this sunny day) when he doesn’t seem to care so much for the prayers of the children starving to death or being raped daily.

    They pray also.

    Either a cognitive illusion is at work in some people’s minds or, God doesn’t care for their suffering and prayers nearly as much as he cares for much smaller things.

    #799592
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    Hibernation is what we call it but the person looks dead to the naked eye as well as instruments we use today. They wake up.

    All Jesus states is that Jonah was in the belly of a fish for three days. He does not say he was dead.

    Hibernation would account for him surviving that long with a limited air supply as people have even survived underwater in hypothermia inducing water for half an hour.

    #799593
    david
    Participant

    Hi kerwin

    I’m just focing on today.

    #799594
    kerwin
    Participant

    David,

    Why does God allow evil in this world?

    There are answers but many do not like them.

    1) Because he gives us free choice
    2) Because we chose it by sinning.

    A woman being raped 24 years is the result of sin and of those who freely choose to sin. It would not have happened in Eden.

    God did answer her prayers but why did he wait so long? I do not know. I do know God has a plan and that all things that happen are necessary for that plan.

    I can see one reason in that it brings us to question God’s righteousness and that tests the hearts of human beings.

    What sin did Job do that his children were all killed?
    Why did God allow Satan to kill all of Job’s children?

    #799595
    kerwin
    Participant

    David,

    I realize that but my point is that the definition of a miracle sometimes depends on the interpretation of events.

    #799597
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    It is a theory as God chose whatever method he did to accomplish the same results. I just presented a few things he does today and applied them to what is described in Scripture.

    For all I know he could have formed a whale that had the ability to swallow a human being and then created air for Jonah to breath while he was in the belly of that whale.

    #799602
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Jonah died and went to the home of the dead.

    But as an anointed man of God he was yet alive in the Spirit.

    Like Jesus he found that death for those joined to God is not a big deal.

    Death where is thy sting?

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