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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,19:39) Hi T,
I am glad you are not an appointed judge.
Nif ever i be one you would be glad because i will use truth and not shy away from it .
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,18:51) Hi MB,
Your idea is to force us to put answers in your greek pigeonholes so you can foist on us your ideas. But your foundations are so far shown to be rather weak and nonspiritual. You always fall back on logic rather than giving the Spirit more time.However I believe despite your bluster you are openminded to some degree and will grow in wisdom.
Blessings
Nick, SCRIPTURALLY SPEAKING, ARE THERE “LESSER GODS” IN EXISTENCE OR NOT?
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 25 2012,19:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,18:51) Hi MB,
Your idea is to force us to put answers in your greek pigeonholes so you can foist on us your ideas. But your foundations are so far shown to be rather weak and nonspiritual. You always fall back on logic rather than giving the Spirit more time.However I believe despite your bluster you are openminded to some degree and will grow in wisdom.
Blessings
Nno answer is better than making one that prove your error right ??
Right on, Pierre!Hi MB,
Are you acting as a moderator here?
Shouting does you no favours either.The point was whether or not Jesus the nazarene was a lesser god.
No evidence in scripture
But there is the WORD OF LIFE[1jn1]
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,19:55) Hi MB,
Are you acting as a moderator here?
Shouting does you no favours either.The point was whether or not Jesus the nazarene was a lesser god.
No evidence in scripture
But there is the WORD OF LIFE[1jn1]
Nyou have a hard time of seeing it ;or do yeah ??
the word of live THAT JOHN HEARD IS DIFFERENT OF THE WORD HE TOUCHED
Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh (THIS IS JESUS HE TOUCHED)and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth (THIS ARE THE WORD SAID THAT HE HEARD).
JN 3:34 “For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure
JN 5:47 “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
JN 8:47 “ He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”
JN 14:24 “He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.
JN 15:7 “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,19:55) No evidence in scripture
Hmmmmm…………..So there's no evidence in scripture of what you just posted an hour ago?
Remember the part about men and angels being called gods?
I'll ask again (and I'm not shouting, but making sure you see the question this time):
Nick, SCRIPTURALLY SPEAKING, are there lesser gods in existence? YES or NO?
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 25 2012,20:01) the word of live THAT JOHN HEARD IS DIFFERENT OF THE WORD HE TOUCHED
1 John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.Nick, what possible “Word” could they have heard, seen, and touched with their hands?
Think it out.
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 26 2012,13:01) the word of live THAT JOHN HEARD IS DIFFERENT OF THE WORD HE TOUCHED JN 15:7 “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
Hi Pierre,So, you admit that “the word” doesn't mean Jesus then, right?
Ezek 12:26-28 “The Word of the LORD came to me, saying,
Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision
that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the
times that are far off. Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2012,20:57) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 26 2012,13:01) the word of live THAT JOHN HEARD IS DIFFERENT OF THE WORD HE TOUCHED JN 15:7 “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
Hi Pierre,So, you admit that “the word” doesn't mean Jesus then, right?
Ezek 12:26-28 “The Word of the LORD came to me, saying,
Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision
that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the
times that are far off. Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjtwo years now we be chic chat and you do not know
you have a hard time of seeing it ;or do yeah ??
the word of live THAT JOHN HEARD IS DIFFERENT OF THE WORD HE TOUCHED
Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh (THIS IS JESUS HE TOUCHED)and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth (THIS ARE THE WORD SAID THAT HE HEARD).
JN 3:34 “For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure
JN 5:47 “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
JN 8:47 “ He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”
JN 14:24 “He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.
JN 15:7 “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2012,20:57) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 26 2012,13:01) the word of live THAT JOHN HEARD IS DIFFERENT OF THE WORD HE TOUCHED JN 15:7 “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
Hi Pierre,So, you admit that “the word” doesn't mean Jesus then, right?
Ezek 12:26-28 “The Word of the LORD came to me, saying,
Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision
that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the
times that are far off. Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjare you asking me if I believe the THE WORD mention in Ezekiel 12
is the same WORD OF GOD in John 1;14 or verse one
if so the answer is YES.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,06:49) Hi Mb,
So to you he is a lesser god and an angel[pass the scriptures please]
Are all angels gods?
Nick, who do you think ps 8:5 refers to, if not angels?Quote (toby @ Mar. 26 2012,08:48) Hi David, Nick, and all, thanks for the info. David,
While I don't disagree with your possible interpretation of '1 Thess 4:16', I would like you to clarify and satisfy yourself and me, that the text could not mean that the shout was:
'Like that of An ArchAngel'
and not necessarily that the shout was:
'That of THE ArchAngel'.
Hi Toby,
Not precisely sure what you are asking of me.Broken down in Greek (but translating the words into English):
“because very (one) the lord in command, in voice of archangel and in trumpet of God, he will come down from heaven, and the dead (ones) in Christ will stand up first
I know certain apocraphyl books do have archangel in plural.
Can there even be many “chief” (arch) angels?I'm not terrific in Greek, but I do know that Greek has definite articles–“the”. (and no indefinite articles–“a” or “an”)
Since no definite article is used here, it could really go either way, I believe. If a translator believes there are many archangels in existence, and feels like putting an “an” in front of “archangel” then he can do so. But that wouldn't prove anything. And yes, if the definite article “the” appeared before 'archangel,' it would make this belief more believable.
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2012,09:28) Quote (david @ Mar. 26 2012,04:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,06:13) i David,
Yes the JWs do promote many errors.
Yes, Nick, I agree with you that you are mostly wrong all the time. Well said. Also, I like it when you start a post to me saying “yes” as though you are agreeing with something i said.Nick, this tactic, which you have done roughly 300 times over the past 7 years is deceptive and misleading.
Yes, Nick, come out of her. Buy and then embrace the Bible. And learn how to stay on Topic. You are at least supposed to pretend to be a moderator, after all.
Hi David,(Do you know all about being deceptive and misleading?)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, why did you direct me to a wealth building site?Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2012,09:31) Quote (david @ Mar. 26 2012,05:17) Michael is said to be the Captain of the Angel host of God
Hi David, are you suggesting that is Michael the Archangel in this verse?…(Josh 5:13-14) “And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked,
and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him,
and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come.”God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, are you quoting Toby or me? It doesn't seem like my words. I know Toby said those words on the second page.Quote (david @ Mar. 26 2012,17:18) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2012,09:31) Quote (david @ Mar. 26 2012,05:17) Michael is said to be the Captain of the Angel host of God
Hi David, are you suggesting that is Michael the Archangel in this verse?…(Josh 5:13-14) “And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked,
and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him,
and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come.”God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, are you quoting Toby or me? It doesn't seem like my words. I know Toby said those words on the second page.
Hi David,Sorry, I didn't realize it was Toby's words as it was in your quote; again sorry.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote Jesus CAN'T be Michael! Hebrews 1:4-5 [Jesus] Being made so much better than the angels,
as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I
begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?Hebrews 1:5 – “For to what angel did God ever say, ‘Thou art my Son…’”
Hebrews 1:13 – “But to what angel has he ever said, ‘Sit at my right hand…’”
Hebrews 2:5 – “For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come…”
(Revised Standard Version)Since God said to Jesus ‘Thou art my Son’, ‘Sit at my right hand’ and subjected the coming world to him, then it would appear Jesus is not an angel, UNLESS JESUS IS AN ANGEL IN A WAY THAT DIFFERENTIATES HIM FROM OTHERS.
HEBREWS 1 AND 2 COULD JUST AS EASILY BE DIFFERENTIATING JESUS AS AN ANGEL FROM OTHER ANGELS AS IT COULD MEAN THAT HE IS NOT AN ANGEL.
EXAMPLE 1
To illustrate this point, look at Psalm 82:7, where Jehovah said to Israelite judges:
“Nevertheless, you shall die like men and fall like any prince.” (Revised Standard Version)
Does the expression “you shall die like men” mean that those judges were not men? Or does it mean that they were being differentiated from ordinary men? In a similar way, the Hebrew passages could be complying with this same idea, that is, that Jesus though an angel, is to be distinguished from “ordinary” angels.EXAMPLE 2
Another example might be brought forth to demonstrate this thinking. The account at Acts 23:9 reads:
“And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees’ part arose, and strove, saying we find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.” (KJV)
Some scholars understand that the “spirit” referred to here is a demon while the “angel” referred to one of the faithful holy angels. But does that mean that “angels” are not “spirits” since the passage reads “spirit or an angel”? No, the Scriptures are plain that angels are spirits. (See Psalm 104:1, 4; Hebrew 1:7; 1 Kings 22:20-22.) Notwithstanding that fact, angels are differentiated from spirits at Acts 23:9. Could this same principle apply with respect to the citations from Hebrews 1:5, 13 and 2:5 and the question of Jesus’ status as an angel?“He [Jesus] has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.” (Hebrews 1:4; Philippians 2:9, 10)
However, this describes his situation after his having been here on earth. He was still the archangel and “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Revelation 3:14) But he became better than the angels. The ‘more excellent name’ or position is something he did not possess before coming to earth.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,11:39) Hi MB,
Jesus was born in Bethlehem and named after birth.
Did you mean the WORD OF LIFE?[1jn1]Definitions of beings in heaven is worse than a wild guess.
I just want to be clear on this.Did nick become a trinitarian while he was away?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,06:49) Hi Mb,
So to you he is a lesser god and an angel[pass the scriptures please]
Are all angels gods?Quote Hi MB,
Scripture calls angels and men gods.–Nick, several pages later.
F JESUS IS AN ANGEL, HOW COULD HE HAVE ANGELS UNDER SUBJECTION?
If Michael the Archangel is an angel (and no one disputes this) how could he have angels under subjection? (which he clearly does: Rev 12:17)
It is a common argument: ‘Jesus can’t be an angel, because he is the leader of the angels.’ That’s like saying “George Bush can’t be a man because he is chief of the men.” It’s not logical.….
HEBREWS 2:8
“All things you subjected under his feet.” For in that he subjected all things to him [God] left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him;”
We know that the scripture quoted says that God subjected all things (including angels) under Jesus feet, and that nothing was not subject to him. Some could take this extremely literally and close your eyes to logic and say that this includes God. But obviously, as 1 Cor 15:27 points out, it is with the obvious exception of the one who subjected all things to him.
1 CORINTHIANS 15:27
“For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ IT IS EVIDENT THAT IT IS WITH THE EXCEPTION of the one who subjected all things to him.”
So God is the exception to this and it should have been obvious and evident. Similarly, although no scripture says it, when we are told that both Jesus is, and Michael (THE ARCHANGEL) is the leader of angels, it should be “evident that it is with the exception” of Jesus or Michael himself.
Yes, Michael has “his angels” under him. DOES THIS MEAN THAT MICHAEL CAN NOT BE AN ANGEL? Ridiculous. It is “evident” although not stated, that Michael’s angels under his control do not include himself. It is just as “evident” that Jesus could have angels under his subjection and be himself an angel, just as a ruler could have men under his subjection and still himself be a man.
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