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Charity wrote:
The Root of John the baptist is Elijah; born again of a woman same soul?
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Charity, thank you for taking time to write such a thoughtful response. I confess, however, it is difficult for me to follow you completely. That is not your fault, but mine. I can see that you completely understand what you are writing, but I am having a hard time making some of the connections. For instance, how is it in all your examples of the “seed” that you can come to an idea of incarnation? Meaning that Elijah was re-born in John the Baptist – same soul? I don't see this theology played out in the various scriptures you shared regarding seeds. Maybe if I am missing the point entirely, you could narrow it down for me in one or two passages. I am pretty simple minded, really.
Nick wrote:
Indeed David is from Christ and Christ is through David.
*****************************I know the scriptures say that Jesus is the Root and the Offspring of David; but, how do you think Jesus is the Root of David – exactly? In other words, is Jesus the “source” of David?
Hi not3,
All creation, including that of Adam, the father of David, came through the work of the monogenes Son of God, who was with God in the beginning.Hi not3,
The soul of Elijah rests in Abraham's bosom.
The Spirit was poured from him into Elisha then John the baptist.Nick writes:
The Spirit was poured from him into Elisha then John the baptist.
*****************************Scripture please?
Hi not3,
2Kings 2
“1And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.2And Elijah said unto Elisha, Tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Bethel. And Elisha said unto him, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel.
3And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.
4And Elijah said unto him, Elisha, tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Jericho. And he said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho.
5And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.
6And Elijah said unto him, Tarry, I pray thee, here; for the LORD hath sent me to Jordan. And he said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. And they two went on.
7And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.
8And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.
9And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
10And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
11And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
12And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.
13He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;
Mal 4
” 5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Mt 11
“14”And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is (Elijah who was to come. “Nick – wow – interesting stuff. I've never really contemplated this before. It sounded like too far fetched of an idea. I mean, really, what we are talking about is reincarntion. That just doesn't seem like a scriptural message. I will ponder this quite a bit. Thanks for taking time to write out the scriptures for me
Hi not3,
Reincarnation is a far fetched idea.
It is the deception of evil spirits that do not die and have inhabited generations of men to speak that they ARE those people.
Man is infested with them.
But man was designed as a vessel to hold the Spirit of God and that Spirit should live in the sons and daughters of God.Nick, then I'm confused (again). Reincarnation is when someone has lived (Elijah), and then is reborn into another person (John the Baptist). Isn't this what you and Charity are saying?
Hi not3,
I believe it is the Holy Spirit that was in Elijah that is in discussion, not Elijah himself.Nick – oh, yes! Of course. That is what I thought. Maybe I misunderstood Charity, then? I had thought she meant the “same soul,” meaning Elijah himself.
Thanks!Hi,
It is interesting that the JWs rightly rebuke others for teaching about God from outside scripture, as with trinity, yet they teach that Jesus is the angel Michael with even a less level of evidence.
Their reliance on their leadership and their own traditions is even stronger than those they rebuke.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 18 2007,10:08) Hi,
It is interesting that the JWs rightly rebuke others for teaching about God from outside scripture, as with trinity, yet they teach that Jesus is the angel Michael with even a less level of evidence.
Their reliance on their leadership and their own traditions is even stronger than those they rebuke.
Unawares Nick
Rightousness Has Entertained Jesus as an AngelSo is this scripture Not The sent christ?
Hbr 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Hbr 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?If we donot except Jesus as first Angel; then perhaps we shall not see those who have come in his Name after Him?
Hbr 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; [and] them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.Hi charity,
It is not written that Jesus is an angel.
that should be enough for us.
Inference alone is folly.Christ is contrasted with the created angels none of whom were begotten sons as Christ is.
Hi,
Heb 2
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.”
So Christ partook of flesh and blood to be made like to us as men. Thus he existed to be able to do so. Likewise he did not take on the nature of angels according to scripture. Well if he was already an angel that would be silly thing to say. So he was never an angel.
Here's another one. I don't think this one is the one I was thinking of either. I think there's a massively large thread out there.
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