Matthew 28:19–what does it prove?

[Is 1:18]

bump.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,14:22)

My only God is YHWH.

But Jesus says his God is the Father.  Paul also says this.  

YHWH is the name of the Father.  YHWH is ONE, not three.

First your trinitarian brethren try to emasculate the divine name by saying neither Jesus nor the apostles ever used it.  They say it “translates into” Lord and God and no one even knows how to pronounce it anyway.

But now you choose to use it as your strong tower?  I don't think that is what is meant when it says you can seek refuge in the name of Jehovah.

You are hiding, man.  Is the Father your only God?  Yes or No.

(man I miss Ed J around here to remind me that it's really YHVH)

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Hi Paul,

I said:  But is there any scripture that straight out says, “YHWH is three”?

You said:

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Answered.

Where?  And is it a yes or no answer?  Because that is all the question requires, not a bunch of word play or conjecture.

You said:

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No. Satan is a “false” god beause he is part of creation and not the Creator. This is the Bible's criteria for true deity, not mine. Jeremiah 10:10-12 But the LORD is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King At His wrath the earth quakes, And the nations cannot endure His indignation. 11Thus you shall say to them, “The gods that did not make the heavens and the earth will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.” 12It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom; And by His understanding He has stretched out the heavens.

Then the Holy Spirit is a false God?

You said:

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False dichotomy. Use a biblical analogy.

Okay.  King David was a “good” king, therefore a true king.  King Sennacherub was a “bad” king.  Was he therefore a “false king”?

You said:

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He is a Son. He is also Almighty God.

So God Almighty has someone he calls “my God”?  And he equalizes his God as the same as our God.  His God is the Father.  Our God is the Father, whether you want to believe it or not.  These are Jesus' words, not mine.

peace and love,
mike

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
So Jesus is the Son of God and also that God??

[Is 1:18]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,14:44)

But Jesus says his God is the Father.  Paul also says this.

Yeshua is also a man. Born of a woman and under the law (Gal 4:4). As a man He is subject to the law, ALL of it. So yes, in His humanity His Father is also His God – lest He transgress the law. Moreover, had He not had His Father as His God He would not have been the perfect sacrifice and the whole point of His coming would have been nullified.

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YHWH is the name of the Father. YHWH is ONE, not three.

One what?

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First your trinitarian brethren try to emasculate the divine name by saying neither Jesus nor the apostles ever used it. They say it “translates into” Lord and God and no one even knows how to pronounce it anyway.

What have they said that is factually incorrect? Deal in facts Mike….

Quote

You are hiding, man. Is the Father your only God? Yes or No.

Yes (along with the Son and Holy Spirit).

See how easy it is to answer questions Mike. You should give it a go….

[Is 1:18]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,14:58)

Then the Holy Spirit is a false God?

Do you deny that the Holy Spirit was involved in the Creation? Read Genesis 1:2.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
Yes he is a man.
His divinity? God IN him.[Col1.19]

[Is 1:18]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,14:58)

Okay.  King David was a “good” king, therefore a true king.  King Sennacherub was a “bad” king.  Was he therefore a “false king”?

I gave you an explicit scriptural definition. Maybe you should use that as your framework for dismantling my argument.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,14:58)

So God Almighty has someone he calls “my God”?  And he equalizes his God as the same as our God.  His God is the Father.  Our God is the Father, whether you want to believe it or not.  These are Jesus' words, not mine.

Thomas emphatically declared in John 20:28 that Yeshua was his God. Was Thomas correct in his appraisal?

Yes or no?

[Is 1:18]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,14:58)

Hi Paul, I said:  But is there any scripture that straight out says, “YHWH is three”? You said: Quote Answered. Where?  And is it a yes or no answer?  Because that is all the question requires, not a bunch of word play or conjecture.

I wrote something a few years ago in answer to this. Sort of a prima facie document. It's too long to post here (10,000+ words, i think). I'm happy to email it to you. Let me know.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
Are you sure that is what he meant?
Would it mean he was no longer Lord but God??

[Is 1:18]

Anyone got anything sensible to say?….

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
Is that defined by agreement?

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
Jesus is Lord and to see him is to see God at work in and through him.
Jesus explained this to Thomas in Jn14

God is at work is us to will and to do too.[Phil2]

[mikeboll64]

Hi Paul,

You said:

Quote

Yeshua is also a man. Born of a woman and under the law (Gal 4:4). As a man He is subject to the law, ALL of it.

Even the Sabbath?  Or was he Lord of the Sabbath?

You said:

Quote

So yes, in His humanity His Father is also His God – lest He transgress the law.

So why does he still call the Father “my God” in Rev, after he has been raised?

You said:

Quote

One what?

One God.  One Spirit.  One Almighty.  Is Jesus ever said to be Almighty?

You said:

Quote

What have they said that is factually incorrect? Deal in facts Mike….

For one, that YHWH “translates into” LORD.  It most certainly does not.  For another, they have no idea whether or not Jesus and the apostles used the divine name.  And finally, because they know of no one who knows how to pronounce the name, should they assume that no one does?  Those ARE facts, Paul….

I said:  Is the Father your only God?  Yes or No.

You said:

Quote

Yes (along with the Son and Holy Spirit).

You make a point of saying you believe the Father to be a separate person.  So is that person, the Father, your ONLY God?  Yes or No.

You said:

Quote

See how easy it is to answer questions Mike. You should give it a go….

  I see that it is easy for you to try to avoid answering questions.  What question did I not answer?

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,15:03)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,14:58) Then the Holy Spirit is a false God? Do you deny that the Holy Spirit was involved in the Creation? Read Genesis 1:2.

Really? Gen 1:2 doesn't say the Holy Spirit was involved in the creation any more than the water was.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,15:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,14:58) Okay.  King David was a “good” king, therefore a true king.  King Sennacherub was a “bad” king.  Was he therefore a “false king”? I gave you an explicit scriptural definition. Maybe you should use that as your framework for dismantling my argument.

Okay. Then explicitly explain to me how the Holy Spirit was involved in the creation. If not, “He” is a false god, right?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,15:11)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,14:58) So God Almighty has someone he calls “my God”?  And he equalizes his God as the same as our God.  His God is the Father.  Our God is the Father, whether you want to believe it or not.  These are Jesus' words, not mine. Thomas emphatically declared in John 20:28 that Yeshua was his God. Was Thomas correct in his appraisal? Yes or no?

You got me on that one for now. I can't explain why he said what he did and why the non-reaction from Jesus and John. I think with the mountains of evidence against the trinity though, I wouldn't hang my hat on one sentence in the Bible that was said by someone we know very little about.

Don't forget, though, that these were also imperfect men. John tried to worship an angel twice. And also don't forget that a couple of verses after Thomas said that, John made clear that he knew Jesus to be the Son of God, not God.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,15:25)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,14:58) Hi Paul, I said:  But is there any scripture that straight out says, “YHWH is three”? You said: Quote Answered. Where?  And is it a yes or no answer?  Because that is all the question requires, not a bunch of word play or conjecture. I wrote something a few years ago in answer to this. Sort of a prima facie document. It's too long to post here (10,000+ words, i think). I'm happy to email it to you. Let me know.

Really? And because of a paper you wrote that I didn't even know about, you answer my question with “Answered”. As if you actually had given me an answer that I missed?

peace and love,
mike

[Is 1:18]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,15:53)

Even the Sabbath?  Or was he Lord of the Sabbath?

I didn't say He was not Lord, did I?

Quote

So why does he still call the Father “my God” in Rev, after he has been raised?

Because when He became a man it was an irrevokable decision. He didn't unbecome a man at the ascention Mike.

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One God. One Spirit…..

That right, NOT one person!

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You make a point of saying you believe the Father to be a separate person. So is that person, the Father, your ONLY God? Yes or No.

As I said my only God is YHWH. So my God is the seperate persons of the Father, Son and Spirit. You're trying to trap me in a logical dilemma but you're not going to be able to do that. Your argument has the premise that God is unipersonal. Your argument has a false premise.

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I see that it is easy for you to try to avoid answering questions. What question did I not answer?

I should start a list….

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