- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 09 2010,21:22) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2010,22:12) WJ you did not read all my scriptures so that make you,a twister of truth ,
because it is well explained ,but i do believe Jesus was and is a god as per the class of moses at the burning bush.
PierreWhat in my words are twisted? You said “God created a God”, right?
If Jesus is “a God”, then is he your God? If not, then whose God is he?
There is nothing twisted about those questions are there?
Does God demand absolute devotion toward him, and only toward him? Is he a jealous God?
Do you serve Jesus with absolute devotion? If not why not?
Is he your only Master and Lord? Jude 1:4.
WJ
WJwen scripture says IN THE BEGINNING WAS ;THE WORD;
NOW;Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
this is also the beginning ,but of creating the heaven and the earth as a planet(not what will fallow lather )
so the beginning talk about in JoH;1;1 is the same than this one
so THE WORD IS BEFORE THAT POINT,BECAUSE SCRIPTURES SHOWS US THAT CHRIST IS THE FIRST OF ALL CREATION,
AND THAT ALL WAS CREATED TROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM.
SO THE BEGINNING AS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WORD(JESUS)BESIDE TO SAY THAT HE WAS THERE BEFORE THAT POINT.
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,16:31) Quote (Ed J @ April 30 2010,21:43) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,12:13) Hi Marty Trinitarians do not believe the Holy Spirit is a seperate being.
But there was a whole lot of wasted words if the Holy Spirit is the Father. Jesus said the Father and himself would send the Holy Spirit. Did Jesus send the Father or did the Father send himself?
WJ
Hi WJ,Did you send this Post or did someone else have to Post it for you?
Can you not send yourself and someone with you to “Disney World”? (Luke 1:37)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDDoesn't work.
The Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus. John 16:12-15
I mentioned verse 12 because apparantly many cannot bear the things that Jesus said and what was revealed later.
But your logic does not solve the problem presented to you in Matthew 28:19.
One singular name for three indentities or persons all written by Matthew under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit with the definite article.
WJ
WJ The Holy Spirit in the trinity is a person. I know I used to teach our four children that wrong doctrine, and I am so sorry for doing it. We also belonged to the Catholic Church who is big on that one….. I was very ignoring at that time. Now we have no excuse, plenty of Scriptures other then Math. 28:19 shows it wrong. Show me another Scripture that says that the Holy Spirit of God is a person. Is He God's Father? And please answer that question…..if you can…..
Peace IreneHi:
The following scripture also suggests that Matthew 28:19 is a scripture that has been doctored.
Quote Luke 24:46-47 (King James Version) 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Mar. 03 2011,08:00) Hi: The following scripture also suggests that Matthew 28:19 is a scripture that has been doctored.
Quote Luke 24:46-47 (King James Version) 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,I personally don't believe there is any doctoring of Matt.28:19,
but I still fail to see how Luke 24:46-47 adds clarity for you?
Could you explain exactly what it is that you mean by this?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Baker @ Oct. 14 2010,18:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,16:31) Quote (Ed J @ April 30 2010,21:43) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,12:13) Hi Marty Trinitarians do not believe the Holy Spirit is a seperate being.
But there was a whole lot of wasted words if the Holy Spirit is the Father. Jesus said the Father and himself would send the Holy Spirit. Did Jesus send the Father or did the Father send himself?
WJ
Hi WJ,Did you send this Post or did someone else have to Post it for you?
Can you not send yourself and someone with you to “Disney World”? (Luke 1:37)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDDoesn't work.
The Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus. John 16:12-15
I mentioned verse 12 because apparantly many cannot bear the things that Jesus said and what was revealed later.
But your logic does not solve the problem presented to you in Matthew 28:19.
One singular name for three indentities or persons all written by Matthew under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit with the definite article.
WJ
WJ The Holy Spirit in the trinity is a person. I know I used to teach our four children that wrong doctrine, and I am so sorry for doing it. We also belonged to the Catholic Church who is big on that one….. I was very ignoring at that time. Now we have no excuse, plenty of Scriptures other then Math. 28:19 shows it wrong. Show me another Scripture that says that the Holy Spirit of God is a person. Is He God's Father? And please answer that question…..if you can…..
Peace Irene
IreneDo you think your kids feel sorry for you for giving up the Jesus you once knew for another Jesus?
WJ
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 02 2011,16:00) Hi: The following scripture also suggests that Matthew 28:19 is a scripture that has been doctored.
Quote Luke 24:46-47 (King James Version) 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyHa Ha. You lose for claiming the scriptures are corrupt. Check real hard Marty because Mattew 28:19 is an inspired scripture and found in all of the extant manuscripts.
Let me know how it goes when members of your church start asking you about it when you are teaching about it.
WJ
Really Keith? What about 1 John 5:8? Wasn't that found to be a “corrupt scripture”? How about the word “God” in Jude 1:4? Wasn't that scripture WITH the word “God” in it found to be “corrupt”? Are you seeing a pattern here? It seems to me that trinitarians have been trying to “doctor” the Good Book for centuries.
They just haven't yet been SOLIDLY caught about 28:19 yet. What will you say when an older ms is found that has “in my name” in 28:19, like the one Eusebius claimed to have read?
Will you then cease to be a trinitarian and join the side of truth? (Hint: Neither translation says ANYTHING about a “trinity Godhead”. But you go ahead and hold on to this one for dear life, as if it proves something.
)mike
Matthew 28:19–“scriptural proof a trinity exists”
Or, perhaps proof that we can now count to 3?
I did not find any proof of a trinity in the first post. I found proof of the ability to count to 3.Does 2 listed together repeatedly prove anything?
1 CORINTHIANS 1:3
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
2 CORINTHIANS 1:2
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
GALATIANS 1:3
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
EPHESIANS 1:2
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
PHILIPPIANS 1:2
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
COLOSSIANS 1:2
“to the holy ones and faithful brothers in union with Christ at Co·lośsae: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father.”
1 TIMOTHY 1:2
“to Timothy, a genuine child in the faith: May there be undeserved kindness, mercy, peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.”
2 TIMOTHY 1:2
“May there be undeserved kindness, mercy, peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.”
TITUS 1:4
“May there be undeserved kindness and peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.”If the Father and Son repeatedly being mentioned together does not prove anything, other than there are a Father and Son, what does the additon of the holy spirit being mentioned in Matthew 28:19 prove exactly? (As a side point, where is the holy spirit in the above verses?)
James said he was “a slave of God and of [the] Lord Jesus Christ.” (James 1:1)
John also said: “….with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.” (I John 1:3)
Peter’s: “….an accurate knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,” (2 Pet 1:2)If the holy spirit being included once proves a trinity, what does the holy spirit not being included several other times prove? Does either prove anything?
If 3 listed together once proves a trinity then does 2 listed together many times prove a bi-nity?
MATTHEW 28:19–WHAT DOESN’T IT SAY?
This text does not say that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are coequal or coeternal or that all are God. All it proves is one’s ability to count to three. “Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob” or “Peter, James and John” are mentioned together in groups of three many times, way more than the supposed trinity.The phrase: “Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob” appears in the Bible 15 times that I can see.
In view of this, the fact that the Father, Son and holy spirit are found mentioned in the same place only once or twice is almost an argument against the trinity!
McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, though advocating the Trinity doctrine, acknowledges regarding Matthew 28:18-20:
“This text, however, taken by itself, would not prove decisively either the personality of the three subjects mentioned, or their equality or divinity.” (1981 reprint, Vol. X, p. 552)If it doesn’t prove any of these things, what does it prove? 1, 2…Yes, you can count to 3. I’ll give you that. Regarding other texts that also mention the three together, this Cyclopedia, which advocates the trinity, admits that taken by themselves, they are “insufficient” to prove the Trinity.
Quote (david @ Mar. 03 2011,14:28) In view of this, the fact that the Father, Son and holy spirit are found mentioned in the same place only once or twice is almost an argument against the trinity!
Agreed.WJ, do you admit that the Johannine Comma (a Trinitarian support verse) is fraudulent?
If so, then are you open to the possibility that other verses including Matthew 28:19 could be of dubious origin?If the answer is yes, then we can discuss the evidence.
If the answer is no, then what is the single biggest piece of evidence that makes you say it is original?Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 03 2011,09:25) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 03 2011,08:00) Hi: The following scripture also suggests that Matthew 28:19 is a scripture that has been doctored.
Quote Luke 24:46-47 (King James Version) 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,I personally don't believe there is any doctoring of Matt.28:19,
but I still fail to see how Luke 24:46-47 adds clarity for you?
Could you explain exactly what it is that you mean by this?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed:When Jesus was addressing the disciples after he was resurrected from the dead, he said “All power over heaven and earth has been given unto me”. It is therefore, highly unlikely that he would say to the disciples, now go and baptize in the “name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”.
The scripture that I posted from Luke states: “that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in “his name” which is more than likely what Jesus actually said relative to baptism in Matthew 28:19. The Apostles only baptized in the name of Jesus.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 03 2011,10:01) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 02 2011,16:00) Hi: The following scripture also suggests that Matthew 28:19 is a scripture that has been doctored.
Quote Luke 24:46-47 (King James Version) 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyHa Ha. You lose for claiming the scriptures are corrupt. Check real hard Marty because Mattew 28:19 is an inspired scripture and found in all of the extant manuscripts.
Let me know how it goes when members of your church start asking you about it when you are teaching about it.
WJ
Hi Keith:I already showed you by the scriptures that the Holy Ghost is not “a Third person of a Tri-une God”, but is the Spirit of God my Father, and so, without any further evidence this would show that Matthew 28:19 as stated is not what Jesus actually said.
I have already given the pastors of the church where I currently worship the same scriptures that I have given you, and they say “that they won't change”, and so, I have done what I can do to show you the truth by the scriptures. If you or they won't change, it is between you and they and God.
It is God's Word, and so, His Word won't return to Him void, but will accomplish what is intended by Him.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (t8 @ Mar. 02 2011,22:49) WJ, do you admit that the Johannine Comma (a Trinitarian support verse) is fraudulent?
If so, then are you open to the possibility that other verses including Matthew 28:19 could be of dubious origin?
t8The Johannine Comma was found in some extant manuscripts but not most.
Mattew 28:19 is in every extant manuscript and is also found in the “Didache” was written around the first century.
Do you want to put up a debate on the “authenticity” of the text?
There is absolutely no evidence what so ever that Matthew 28:19 is an addition to the scriptures.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 02 2011,22:49) If the answer is yes, then we can discuss the evidence.
If the answer is no, then what is the single biggest piece of evidence that makes you say it is original?
The fact that it is found in every extant manuscript (thousands) is proof enough let alone the mention of it in the Didache in its tripart form.So why don't you prove that it is not inspired t8?
WJ
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 03 2011,14:20) I have done what I can do to show you the truth by the scriptures. If you or they won't change, it is between you and they and God.
MartyThat is hillarious!
You say you use scriptures to show me the truth yet you reject the scripture.
This will be the kind of reaction you will get from others who you try to teach the scriptures as being the word of God yet out of the other side of your mouth you will say they are corrupt.
Good luck with that my friend.
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2011,22:01) Really Keith? What about 1 John 5:8? Wasn't that found to be a “corrupt scripture”? How about the word “God” in Jude 1:4? Wasn't that scripture WITH the word “God” in it found to be “corrupt”? Are you seeing a pattern here? It seems to me that trinitarians have been trying to “doctor” the Good Book for centuries. They just haven't yet been SOLIDLY caught about 28:19 yet. What will you say when an older ms is found that has “in my name” in 28:19, like the one Eusebius claimed to have read?
Will you then cease to be a trinitarian and join the side of truth? (Hint: Neither translation says ANYTHING about a “trinity Godhead”. But you go ahead and hold on to this one for dear life, as if it proves something.
)mike
MikeProve it is corrupt big boy!
WJ
Quote (david @ Mar. 02 2011,22:23) If 3 listed together once proves a trinity then does 2 listed together many times prove a bi-nity?
DavidThe point is Jesus mentions “Three” all having the definite article and sharing a “singular name”.
The point of this thread is to prove that Jesus mentions “a trinity”.
Do you disagree with that David.
So rather than plastering the pages with insults, then jump in and prove that Mathew 28:19 is not “a trinity”.
Remember they are shaing a “singular name” with each having the definite article.
Does any of your little “binity” proof text have these facts David?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 04 2011,07:23) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 03 2011,14:20) I have done what I can do to show you the truth by the scriptures. If you or they won't change, it is between you and they and God.
MartyThat is hillarious!
You say you use scriptures to show me the truth yet you reject the scripture.
This will be the kind of reaction you will get from others who you try to teach the scriptures as being the word of God yet out of the other side of your mouth you will say they are corrupt.
Good luck with that my friend.
WJ
Hi Keith:A corrupt scripture cannot possibly give you the truth, and since the Holy Ghost is not a “Third person of a Tri-une God” the scripture has to be corrupt.
Scripture that is given by the inspiration of God is profitable for doctrine for reproof, for correction…
Perhaps you would like to correct the Apostles telling them that they disobeyed Matthew 28:19 since they baptized in the name of Jesus and not in Tri-une formula.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2011,22:01) What will you say when an older ms is found that has “in my name” in 28:19, like the one Eusebius claimed to have read? Will you then cease to be a trinitarian and join the side of truth? (Hint: Neither translation says ANYTHING about a “trinity Godhead”. But you go ahead and hold on to this one for dear life, as if it proves something.
BTW MikeWhy would I throw away “thousands” of manuscripts, and the Didache, that has Matthew 28:19 as well as the writings of many Forefathers that quote it for a “single manuscript”?
WJQuote (942767 @ Mar. 03 2011,15:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 04 2011,07:23) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 03 2011,14:20) I have done what I can do to show you the truth by the scriptures. If you or they won't change, it is between you and they and God.
MartyThat is hillarious!
You say you use scriptures to show me the truth yet you reject the scripture.
This will be the kind of reaction you will get from others who you try to teach the scriptures as being the word of God yet out of the other side of your mouth you will say they are corrupt.
Good luck with that my friend.
WJ
Hi Keith:A corrupt scripture cannot possibly give you the truth, and since the Holy Ghost is not a “Third person of a Tri-une God” the scripture has to be corrupt.
Scripture that is given by the inspiration of God is profitable for doctrine for reproof, for correction…
Perhaps you would like to correct the Apostles telling them that they disobeyed Matthew 28:19 since they baptized in the name of Jesus and not in Tri-une formula.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYou say the scripture is corrupt, but if you are open to correction from the scriptures you would see that Matthew 28:19 in no way contradicts what the Apostles did.
I have already shown you this but you have rejected it and the scripture.
WJ
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
