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This is in my best “valley girl” accent:
I just don't gettit.
What are you saying to me, Nick Jr?
mike
Hi MB,
Do you agree with the Jews who said about Jesus
“A great prophet has come”
“God has visited his people.”Both are true.
God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself[2Cor5] .
Jesus taught Thomas about this in Jn14 and it stuck.Nick jnr, I gettit!
Do you not do cryptic crossword puzzles?
With a stick to beat: Cane
Old soldier in armour: Knight
Before the end of the day: Day Gone
“Cane” with “knight”… Canannite,
Day Gone…Dagon.
The Cannannites called someone other than YHVH …or Jesus, their God.
Note that WJ was drawing you in by including 'Jesus' here.
Your response should only include YHVH, don't reply as asked because it is a crafted question!
Ok, strictly speaking, Dagon wasn't a Person, but if he is claiming that the Holy Spirit is a Person, then
'Touché',
I say,
let it stay,
cos in every way,
it's a winner, eh!Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2010,06:57) No, Keith. A mediator cannot mediate between one party. A mediator is someone who mediates BETWEEN two parties, and therefore CANNOT be one of the two parties.
If you're going to consistently apply your logic then Yeshua could not mediate on behalf of man either, because He is a man….
Actually Yeshua is perfectly equipped to mediate between the two parties as he is both God and man…..
Hi Is !.18,
Did God die on calvary?
Jesus is begotten of God in the Spirit and as the head of his body is qualified to speak for his brothers with his God.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 27 2010,08:23) Quote (t8 @ May 26 2010,21:29) Some more trinities. And you thought there was only one. Enjoy.
Peter, James, and John are a trinity because they are listed together in Luke 9:28.
1 Timothy 5:21 says: “I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels.” So that is a subset of the Trinity (The Binity) plus the elect angles with the Holy Spirit not mentioned in this trinity. Yeah, why would you need to do that?
Wait a minute, maybe we shouldn't be trying to create a doctrine at the mere mention of things or people that are mentioned in the same sentence.
Just a diversionary tactic designed to distract.Jack
No it was a valid point.If you see God, Jesus, Spirit, mentioned in the same sentence, then turning that reference into a trinity should also be equally valid for other mentions of three. Unless you are biased.
Trinitarians ignore all mentions of three except God, Jesus, Spirit. That is when they go, “there it is, the Trinity”.
In other words, they see what they want to see.
I am constantly amazed out how brainwashing and indoctrination works. It makes men do the silliest things and also makes them ignore the most simplest things.
I guess there is a lesson there for those who want to learn. Do not let your own understanding and bias take control. Rather, be humble and teachable. Empty yourself of yourself, and let Christ live in you. He is the truth and the truth will set you free.
Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Do not let men's traditions control your mind. If you do that, you will be bound up. The truth sets us free. Be open to the truth at all times for God has hidden his ways from the proud.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 31 2010,11:50) Actually Yeshua is perfectly equipped to mediate between the two parties as he is both God and man…..
More accurately:He existed in the form of God, emptied himself, took on the form of man, died, rose from the dead, was seated at the right hand of the majesty on high and back to the glory he had in the beginning.
This God/Man thing sounds more like Hercules or something.
Hi t8,
The fear of deception causes men to take the more popular wider path.
What we fear comes upon us.[Jb3.25]Quote (t8 @ May 31 2010,12:59) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 31 2010,11:50) Actually Yeshua is perfectly equipped to mediate between the two parties as he is both God and man…..
More accurately:He existed in the form of God, emptied himself, took on the form of man, died, rose from the dead, was seated at the right hand of the majesty on high and back to the glory he had in the beginning.
This God/Man thing sounds more like Hercules or something.
t8,
Please explain this, PleaseQuote He existed in the form of God,
What are you saying here? what does this mean.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,15:05) Hi WJ, That was the very last time I tackle one of you “million word marches”.
When the posts are so long, to much gets overlooked. I just can't do it anymore, sorry.
You don't have to respond at all, but if you do, please pick one point. I'm happy to discuss anything and everything with you, but not all at once.
I will not respond to a huge post again. I will pick one point and respond. So if you write a huge post, it will be mostly ignored by me. I don't say that your thoughts aren't important, just that I don't have the strength to answer every thought you have in one post.
I have saved one of the questions from the bottom of your last post to try and start a point by point discussion. I will answer it shortly.
I do enjoy discussing scripture with you – just not all of them at once.
peace and love,
mike
MikeYou say it is my million word post, but my post is in answer to all your points!
But if anyone wants to take the time and look they will see how you pick and choose and chop up my post and leave out certain points and speak only on what you want and in fact mislead, for example when you completely left out my response to you concerning Jesus granting to those who overcome to sit in his throne!
My post are long because I am fair enough to let the reader see your full response that I am responding to.
They are not just seeing me chop out parts of your post to give me an advantage!
WJ
Hey Mike,
The revision you asked for.You said:
Quote I agree somewhat. But how do we know what a certain scripture means? At some point, we have to stop straddling the fence and take a leap of faith, IMO. It's like your “angels were sons of god” point against Roo. Scripture doesn't actually say it, but the brain that God gave you is smart enough to reason, “This is day three… men weren't around until day six…THEREFORE, it must have been heavenly creatures that were spoken of as sons of God. I think it is for doing that very thing that you are warning me. But if I ever say something like I know it for a fact, don't hesitate to call me on it. I will happily explain the scripture(s) that lead me to believe that way.
Im going to be very short for once lol.
The Angel point you metioned, is not that we are smart, when i was younger i thought it was the literal sons of God coming up to God because they all were doing something. obviously i was wrong. I know what I Know, for one i studied Hebrew, i learned what they meant by the Word, i notice other places in scripture that metnions bene-elohim to compare. I have seen the point you made about day three to six. and obvousily studying in the BIble how heaven works, with the order of angels also helps understand who has a right to be in the presence of God. Satan somehow was part fo that group, than i had to study what a cheribum is. So on and so forth, to understand one scripture. its not because i was smart, its becuase the answer was within the entire bible. How can i understand the end if i dont understand the Beggining. Its like a story between God and Man, that we are trying to understand. There are open times to sepculate, but to dispute/debate/or discuss while interpreting scripture cannot be based on what is not written. You and I can think whatever we want to think, but scripture is clear. If we focus on that, than what you and i think is irrevalent.trust me when i say that i didnt know for a long time that the sons of God were the angels. KJ has just discovered this. you see.. our very mind is a ant compared to God. we really have to get closer to understand. To Examine the word, and ourselves. Our own thuoghts.
I said i was going to be short right? oh well im not..!!!
You said:Quote Okay, fair enough. Let's change my analogy to Phaoah just sitting on the sidelines and watching how Joseph does for a while instead of leaving town. Does it change the rest of my analogy?
lol you changed the Analogy? lol ya it does bro. Why do i say this, you make Jesus sound like a God in training.
You said:Quote Yes. Remember He said He was installing a King that would rule with righteousness? Did God Almighty install God Almighty as King on Zion? Didn't He sit back and let David take the wheel in Israel?
lol did david really ever take the Wheel? or did he hang out with the neighbors wife, as her husband was being killed. (did i get that story right?) God wants to be the very center of our lives. lets analyze God for a second. how did he react to the jews who wanted a King. didnt God tell the Judge that they didnt reject the Judge but were rejecting God himself for asking for a king? God felt rejected.
You said:Quote When does scripture say that He does? Jesus has his own glory, just like the glory Jesus spoke of Solomon having. To my knowledge, scripture never tells of God sharing His glory with another. Does it?
But thats my point!! hey dont steal my point.
Im saying he doesnt, beacuse you make it seem Jesus does!
your basicallying singing that Cari underwood song, Jesus take the Wheel.
If he doesnt share glory, whats up with Jesus having to rule everything, even our hearts.
and Solomon,…. well his glory wasnt all of that. It was based on God, and his reputation ended with… having to many cucubines.
You said:Quote Not exactly, no. But consider this:
Hebrews 1:4 NIV
So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Though the scripture doesn't spell it out, I can reasonably assume that I cannot “inherit” a name from you that you do not know. And consider this:
Revelation 2:17 NIV
To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.
Can Jesus GIVE to someone a name that he himself does not even know? So now, the scripture in question:
Revelation 19:12 NIV
His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
God sees all. The name is written on him. Therefore God sees the name. He inherited the name. From whom? But what if, as you have suggested, Jesus IS God. Then this will all work, right? But you only have to read verse 15 to know this one with the new name is not God Almighty.
He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
He (someone other than God Almighty) treads the winepress of the wrath of God Almighty. Make sense?
Revelatinos 2:17– i thought this was referring to Us. ill go back and check again later.
Unless Jesus is God, that scripture doesnt make sense, just because God sees all. ACtually he cant, doesnt Habbuk state that his eyes are to pure to see evil or wickness?
Whats the point to having a new name?
I see that God has a fettish with names. The hebrews also find it very important to name their kids with something specific in mind.
Winepress: isnt that the cup that Jesus drank from that he didnt want? the Wrath of God? if you agree, than i will extend after you next reply.
You said:Quote Yes. But do you have any scripture at all that supports this? That would be a far cry from me speculating that Mount Zion doesn't have a uterus, don't you think?
We are speculating, we are stating what is not said. why does scripture say that Jesus is the same yesturday, today and tomorow? than in revelations states that he says he is the Alpha and the Omega?
You said:Quote I didn't post very much in that thread – too crowded at the time, and you had everyone throwing everything at you all at once. I will be happy to dis
cuss it with you now, though.
The first problem I find with it is this: The trinitarians like to say it means John knew him to be equal to God. But then they explain away John 14:28 by saying Jesus was “in a limited state” when he said the Father was greater. I saw you post that yourself. But you can't have it both ways. Either he was in a limited state and therefore the Father really was greater, or he was equal to the Father. Which is it?
Thank you so much! very considerate! i did feel a bit overwhelmed. it was too many people at once. =)
When i first claimed the “Limited State” Card, i was reffering to the next chapters. as the debate continued, i try to kindof keep the focus on John 10, by also mentioning that before Jesus said that the Father and himself are one, that he said that the Father is greater than everything. Yet the Jews still took it wrong what he said. they understood because, they ask for him to speak Plainly. Which Jesus has every ability too. Everytime he did, they wanted to kill him.To add to your questions. We know that Angels are like crazy molded beings. We know there are not two alike. they are not even a race, they are individual creatures each with its tasks. Question? How do the angels who have mighty powers, and are even mentioned to be the lesser light, can limit there very powers to a humanlike form? How is it that angels came as visitors many times. how about the visitor from Joseph about his brother whereabouts. how about the guys who came to visit Abraham, and one was unto the like of the Son of God. (I think, i could be wrong) and the many other times angels were mentioned taking human form. they are known as strangers, visitors, however you like.
the ultimate question: If God wanted to, can he limit his state to become physically human, yet at the same time still be omnipresent spiritualy. To say that God cannot be physical means he is not omnipresent.
Tell me what you think brother,
Much love,
nice talking to you too.(Rewind: Sorry about yesturday, i hope this organization helps you understand to what im referring to Mike, Much love my brother.)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,01:48) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 30 2010,05:49) This is only partly true. Because the Bible says we are not to even “serve them”, yet we see men in the Bible dying for Jesus and serving him with absolute unreserved devotion.
Hi WJ,Don't you think it means to only worship and serve Jehovah AS GOD? Do you think it really means we cannot serve someone a cup of coffee?
peace and love,
mike
MikeYea sure Mike! But notice I said…
Yet we see men in the Bible dying for Jesus and SERVING him with absolute unreserved devotion.
Jesus is given the highest possible honour and devotion even to the death, and if he is not God then Christianity is committing adultery for exalting him this way!
As Paul has rightly brought out, there is no scripture by any Apostles anywhere that warns believers to be carefull how much honour and devotion we give Jesus!
In fact the same word for worship to Jesus is the word Jesus used for the worship of the Father and nowhere are the believers told never to worship him yet we see men in the Bible doing just that!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 31 2010,15:44) Mike They are not just seeing me chop out parts of your post to give me an advantage!
WJ
Hi WJ,In a civil case he who speaks first plays a larger role than the defense (the reasoning behind long Posts).
However in a criminal case, who speaks first (or has the longest Post) changes NO Facts pertinent to the case.Only “Bible Truth” has the advantage! And is more comparable to a 'criminal case'.
Facts remain facts no matter how they are presented, so stop being such a 'crybaby'!
You have NO advantage, unless you present “Bible Truth”; your opinions DON'T MATTER!Ed J
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2010,19:46) Did JA, just become a moderator?
Im Just Askin?
Hi SF,NOT with me he hasn't! He can be ignored just as easily as others! Click Here
God bless
Ed J (Isaiah 54:17)Quote (Ed J @ June 01 2010,08:57)
You have NO advantage, unless you present “Bible Truth”; your opinions DON'T MATTER!
EdOpinions do matter, because when you get right down to it is every ones opinion of what scriptures say including yours!
So to present “Bible Truth” in a wrong way or to misrepresent someones post is wrong isn't it?
You are a little pissed that Kathi and others have called you out on your tactics aren't you? You need to let it go man, it seems in your post that you are a little bitter! Come on ED, grow up and accept correction!
Yea I can see how you say what you say being that you play the same diversionary games as Mike! Same spirit IMO.
Truth is not known by hiding facts in the case is it ED? No, just a sleezy lawyer who seeks to evade and mislead!
But the best way to deal with people like you is to ignore them because you can't stand it when know one gives attention to you! Thats why you pop in every now and then to throw in a few “ad hominems”, isn't it?
Do you feel better now my little friend that you have spoken your peace and have been given some attention?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 02 2010,02:37) Quote (Ed J @ June 01 2010,08:57)
You have NO advantage, unless you present “Bible Truth”; your opinions DON'T MATTER!
Ed1) Opinions do matter, because when you get right down to it is every ones opinion of what scriptures say including yours!
2) So to present “Bible Truth” in a wrong way or to misrepresent someones post is wrong isn't it?
3) You are a little pissed that Kathi and others have called you out on your tactics aren't you? You need to let it go man, it seems in your post that you are a little bitter! Come on ED, grow up and accept correction!
4) Yea I can see how you say what you say being that you play the same diversionary games as Mike! Same spirit IMO.
5) Truth is not known by hiding facts in the case is it ED? No, just a sleezy lawyer who seeks to evade and mislead!
6) But the best way to deal with people like you is to ignore them because you can't stand it when know one gives attention to you! Thats why you pop in every now and then to throw in a few “ad hominems”, isn't it?
7) Do you feel better now my little friend that you have spoken your peace and have been given some attention?
WJ
Hi WJ,1) Even Atheists? (Prob.26:4)
2) Who made you the Judge? (Matt.7:1)
3) I eliminated anger LONG AGO! (Col.3:8)
4) Cloudy accusations? (Isaiah 54:17)
5) More cloudy accusations? (Rev.12:10)
6) Feel froggy, jump! (Rev.16:13)
7) I “feel great” no matter what you do! (Psalm 118:8 / Prob.3:26)
Ed J
PS> What you say might carry more weight with others if what you said lined up with scriptures!
Because 'your' opinions in and of themselves (as Posted here) mean NOTHING!
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