Matthew 28:19 authentic or not?

[JustAskin]

So what happened to the king when his son …also became king… Were there two kings then? I can't make head nor tail of your jestering…

I guess you and WJ are so far out of your depth that you can only use low grade distractions and plainly false reasoning to try and maintain some semblence of personal dignity,'stiff upper lip', the British upper …muddle… …crass… call it!

[KangarooJack]

Quote (JustAskin @ May 29 2010,09:00)

Kj, King in the fathers place…ha ha, you are so funny. So, which son became king in his fathers place while the king was still in place? David and one of his sons,…I don't know anything near what you mention…. I'm eager to hear your answer… You really are a sadly funny one!

JA,

Did Jesus ride into Jerusalem as the King of Israel or not?

roo

[KangarooJack]

Quote (JustAskin @ May 29 2010,09:08)

So what happened to the king when his son …also became king… Were there two kings then? I can't make head nor tail of your jestering… I guess you and WJ are so far out of your depth that you can only use low grade distractions and plainly false reasoning to try and maintain some semblence of personal dignity,'stiff upper lip', the British upper …muddle… …crass… call it!

Did Jesus ride into Jerusalem as Israel's King or not?

roo

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,16:51)

WJ, What is wrong with Truth. Have you decided to put it to bed. It is then no wonder that you lack wisdom. In fact, I don't detect that you lack wisdom. You are not unwise, you are just abusing your wisdom, and, ironically, is not wise!

JA

I knew you couldn't answer without “ad hominems”.  

Here is the question again, lets see what you will do?

So tell us JA, how do you compare Jesus and the Holy Spirit to other spirits since other spirits cannot be every where at the same time?  

Hello? Please stop all your spin and explain this without a bunch of “ad hominems”!

WJ

[JustAskin]

WJ,

Did you just quote me responding to you and cut out the very response that you are begging me for… Because you want me to answer in some other way, ..way No… No way…

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2010,09:59)

Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,16:51) WJ, What is wrong with Truth. Have you decided to put it to bed. It is then no wonder that you lack wisdom. In fact, I don't detect that you lack wisdom. You are not unwise, you are just abusing your wisdom, and, ironically, is not wise! JA I knew you couldn't answer without “ad hominems”.   Here is the question again, lets see what you will do? So tell us JA, how do you compare Jesus and the Holy Spirit to other spirits since other spirits cannot be every where at the same time?   Hello? Please stop all your spin and explain this without a bunch of “ad hominems”! WJ

Keith,

I have asked JA at least five times if Jesus rode into Jerusalem as the King of Israel and he won't directly answer this question.

btw, That is one of the funniest emoticons I have seen.

Jack

[JustAskin]

KJ,

When did Jesus become 'King of Israel'.

Is that what the Scriptures say, or what the People said.

Let's see, what did Jesus say,'My Kingdom is NOT of this World…for if it were, my father would send legions of angels to fight for me' (my paraphrase)

So, which 'Israel' are you talking about, which king-dom are you talking about?

Did not the Jews want to tear down Pontius Pilates plaque which read, 'King of the Jews'. The people, the power of the people.

Jesus became King IN, Within, his Father's Kingdom, under his Father, as Joseph was 'Ruler' under Pharoah, in, within, Pharoah's kingdom.

KK,

You need to get this idea of Complete Power of a subordinate out of your head, then all will become clear on that point.

ALL power does not mean Power over the one that Gave him that Power.
The Scripture verse is clear, unambiguous, and commonsense.
Even as 'king'…ruler…he, whomever, is still, UNDER the authority of Him who gave him that authority…it has to be so or else all manner of havocs could and would ensue.
How was Haman removed by King Ahesereus…if he was EQUAL to King Ahesreus?

KJ,

That story was written FOR YOU and others like you….'All Scriptures is for our edification'

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Now the Lord is the Spirit.

Did you imagine the Spirit of God and Christ was another person??

[KangarooJack]

JustAskin said:

Quote

When did Jesus become 'King of Israel'. Is that what the Scriptures say, or what the People said.

Your question is pathetic sir! Jesus rode into Jerusalem as Israel's King according to prophecy. Jesus was fulfilling the scriptures.

Zechariah 9:9:

9 “ Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
     Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
     Behold, YOUR KING is coming to you;
     He is just and having salvation,
     Lowly and RIDING ON A DONKEY,
     A colt, the foal of a donkey.

This was fulfilled by Jesus Himself:

14 Then Jesus, when He had found a young donkey, sat on it; AS IT IS WRITTEN:
      15 “ Fear not, daughter of Zion;
     Behold, YOUR KING is coming,
     Sitting on a donkey’s colt.” John 12:14-15

It CLEARLY said that Jesus took the donkey and rode upon it “AS IT IS WRITTEN: 'fear not, duughter of Zion; Behold YOUR KING is coming….”

Again, your question is pathetic!

Do you confess or deny that Jesus is the King?

roo

[JustAskin]

Nick,

It's ok… They know what they are doing…except, I know what they are doing, too, except, they know that I know, WJ, anyway, that they know what they are doing.

So what they are doing is pointless.

But what can they do when every trinitarian point has been shown to be false, and their pride won't let them admit it?
A:Thrash and hope to catch someone in weakness. That other's weakness gives them, then strength, and 'A new Hope' (Star Wars, ep.2)

Jesus 'becomes king over Israel'… An earthly kingdom,.. Isn't that what Satan was tempting him with?

Jesus, king of Israel… When He is God, by trini view?
Compare…God=Jesus…
God King of Heaven…Jesus, king of dust earth… Yet they are co-equal.

Compare, when does the Holy Spirit Rule?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (JustAskin @ May 29 2010,10:43)

Nick, It's ok… They know what they are doing…except, I know what they are doing, too, except, they know that I know, WJ, anyway, that they know what they are doing. So what they are doing is pointless. But what can they do when every trinitarian point has been shown to be false, and their pride won't let them admit it? A:Thrash and hope to catch someone in weakness. That other's weakness gives them, then strength, and 'A new Hope' (Star Wars, ep.2) Jesus 'becomes king over Israel'… An earthly kingdom,.. Isn't that what Satan was tempting him with? Jesus, king of Israel… When He is God, by trini view? Compare…God=Jesus… God King of Heaven…Jesus, king of dust earth… Yet they are co-equal. Compare, when does the Holy Spirit Rule?

JA,

Do you confess or deny that Jesus is the King? Yes or no?

roo

[JustAskin]

KJ,

Truly, truly, truly, you are not fit to debate anything…

Jesus did not come as an earthly King.
Jesus' own words said this, 'My Kingdom is Not of this World'.

Tell me, Jack, no messing, what does your scholarship allow you to do? Teach? Pastor, Lead?

Seriously, you are a danger to whomever will come to you in their ignorance believing you to be worthy.

Misleading yourself is bad. Misleading others is doubly bad.

[JustAskin]

Jesus is my heavenly king, 'King over earthly kings and Lord over earthly lords'

You didn't ask but I include here for completeness: And the Father, is 'KING of All Kings (Which includes Jesus) and LORD(YHVH) over ALL Lords (Which includes Jesus)'

[KangarooJack]

Quote (JustAskin @ May 29 2010,10:59)

Jesus is my heavenly king, 'King over earthly kings and Lord over earthly lords' You didn't ask but I include here for completeness: And the Father, is 'KING of All Kings (Which includes Jesus) and LORD(YHVH) over ALL Lords (Which includes Jesus)'

The scripture says that Christ is King of kings (Rev. 19). And the fully investitured son is not under His father. Jesus is fully investitured. Therefore, He is “the ONLY Master and Lord” (Jude 4).

Your view that Christ's Father is His King is totally unbiblical and unreal. Your father is not your king is he?

Give one scripture which says that that Christ's Father is His King.

roo

[NickHassan]

Hi KJ,
All puffery and word games.
You even reject God in favour of His son?

[mikeboll64]

Hi Dennison,

You said:

Quote

I would rather accpet it as a theory but not as truth right away.  Becuase we dont know. And lets say we were debating this, i would have to speculate with you in order to meet your arguement.

I agree somewhat.  But how do we know what a certain scripture means?  At some point, we have to stop straddling the fence and take a leap of faith, IMO.  It's like your “angels were sons of god” point against Roo.  Scripture doesn't actually say it, but the brain that God gave you is smart enough to reason, “This is day three… men weren't around until day six…THEREFORE, it must have been heavenly creatures that were spoken of as sons of God.  I think it is for doing  that very thing that you are warning me.   But if I ever say something like I know it for a fact, don't hesitate to call me on it.  I will happily explain the scripture(s) that lead me to believe that way.

You said:

Quote

ARe you saying that we are smart enough to lead off points?

I think we should have scripture to back our interpretations of other scriptures.  

You said:

Quote

So God is not omnipresent… so HE can be absent?

Okay, fair enough.  Let's change my analogy to Phaoah just sitting on the sidelines and watching how Joseph does for a while instead of leaving town.  Does it change the rest of my analogy?

You said:

Quote

What is God doing? sitting back while his Son takes the wheel?

Yes.  Remember He said He was installing a King that would rule with righteousness?  Did God Almighty install God Almighty as King on Zion?  Didn't He sit back and let David take the wheel in Israel?

You said:

Quote

I thought that the Anti-Trin arguement was that God never shared his glory with anyone….

When does scripture say that He does?  Jesus has his own glory, just like the glory Jesus spoke of Solomon having.  To my knowledge, scripture never tells of God sharing His glory with another.  Does it?

You said:

Quote

Who does give Jesus new name? does scripture say?

Not exactly, no.  But consider this:

Hebrews 1:4 NIV
So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

Though the scripture doesn't spell it out, I can reasonably assume that I cannot “inherit” a name from you that you do not know.  And consider this:

Revelation 2:17 NIV
To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.

Can Jesus GIVE to someone a name that he himself does not even know?  So now, the scripture in question:

Revelation 19:12 NIV
His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.

God sees all.  The name is written on him.  Therefore God sees the name.  He inherited the name.  From whom?  But what if, as you have suggested, Jesus IS God.  Then this will all work, right?  But you only have to read verse 15 to know this one with the new name is not God Almighty.

He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

He (someone other than God Almighty) treads the winepress of the wrath of God Almighty.  Make sense?

You said:

Quote

But he has all authority and power like your example about Joseph, i can also speculate that Jesus now knows everything.

Yes.  But do you have any scripture at all that supports this?  That would be a far cry from me speculating that Mount Zion doesn't have a uterus, don't you think?

You said:

Quote

As in the other thread, thats what i was trying to do with everyone referring with John 10.

I didn't post very much in that thread – too crowded at the time, and you had everyone throwing everything at you all at once.  I will be happy to discuss it with you now, though.  

The first problem I find with it is this:  The trinitarians like to say it means John knew him to be equal to God.  But then they explain away John 14:28 by saying Jesus was “in a limited state” when he said the Father was greater.  I saw you post that yourself.  But you can't have it both ways.  Either he was in a limited state and therefore the Father really was greater, or he was equal to the Father.  Which is it?

Nice chattin' with ya,
peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 29 2010,11:06)

Therefore, He is “the ONLY Master and Lord” (Jude 4).

Hi Roo,

Let me turn the tables on you. You guys frequently ask, “Is Jesus your ONLY LORD AND MASTER?”

Is he yours? I assume the answer is yes. So is the Father not your Lord? Is the Holy Spirit not your Lord?

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

And on the same point, what does this mean:

15The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
  “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,

We know the Christ is the Son, right?  And we know that the Son is our only Lord and Master, right?  I wonder who the loud voices in heaven were referring to when they said “our Lord” since it is clear it wasn't the Son.  Hmmm…

What do you make of this Roo?

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Arnold @ May 29 2010,06:52)

I find it so interesting when somebody makes a postto all, and gets ignored.  Is it because there is no way to debate that?  Makes me wonder.  Somebody told me that is what Nick does.  Well consider yourselves with Nick then, cause all of you ignored my post……Irene:laugh:

Hi Irene,

To those of us who agree with it, there is not much to add.

To those of us who don't, there is nothing they can say.

We're not ignoring you, you just did such a good job that we can't improve on it.

peace and love,
mike

[JustAskin]

Mike,

What was it that Arnold said?

I like the way you put it, too.

KJ, this, what Mike said, is worthy of a High-Five…and I don't give them lightly!

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