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Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 26 2010,13:10) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 26 2010,10:30) Hi Jack Nah, I think the JWs would be proud to have him in the Kingdom hall, after all his theology perfectly lines up with theirs. Actually it seems pretty obvious that at one time he was one of them. I am not sure why he left because it doesn't seem like he has changed his theology at all!
If I am wrong about what I say above Mike please tell us!
You are mostly wrong. My mom became a Jehovah's Witness when I was 3. I was 12 or 13 when I rebelled so badly against God and going to church that she no longer made me go to the meetings. I spent most of the next 32 years in and out of rehabs and drug houses. I think I've effectively wiped out any memories of what I might have learned back then. But who knows, maybe it's my subconscience. Either way, I got a whole lot of family that would absolutely love it if I went to the meetings. But I am as honest with them as I am with you – I can't get on board with everything they teach. They do provide a great translation and data base of info that I use, though. But rest assured, my infant understanding of the Scriptures is all mine, not theirs. The arguments I make are my thoughts, although once in a rare while, I'll post JW info about a subject.peace and love,
mike
I didnt realize how old you were lol……No offense….
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 26 2010,11:10) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 25 2010,12:37) mike, Whats your opinion when Revelation speaks of a new name?
Hi Dennison,My opinion is that Jesus recieved a new name. No one knows that name right now except for him.
That leads me to believe it is not any of the names we already know him by. And it cannot be YHWH because of the was 3:21 is worded. It talks about the the name of his God AND his new name. Compare with 14:1,
Revelation 14:1 NIV
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheadsAnd compare with 19:12
Revelation 19:12 NIV
His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.It seems to me that doesn't share a name with the Father, and none of the names we already know him by would fit in with “no one knows but he himself”.
peace and love,
mike
So the Father doesnt know the name either?
How would this fit in the theology that you believe, if you can make a connection with it idk, because idk what you believe.
And isnt Theology always changing bc its based on what we learn? so the more me learn the more our Theology changes?It seems everyone is calling u a JW, but you say u are not so…. ya…its just awkrad. I have just realized that everyone disagrees in this forum. Yet lol we all say we have the truth… yet everyone disagrees…..
isnt that ironic mike?
Some more trinities. And you thought there was only one.
Enjoy.
Peter, James, and John are a trinity because they are listed together in Luke 9:28.
1 Timothy 5:21 says: “I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels.” So that is a subset of the Trinity (The Binity) plus the elect angles with the Holy Spirit not mentioned in this trinity. Yeah, why would you need to do that?
Wait a minute, maybe we shouldn't be trying to create a doctrine at the mere mention of things or people that are mentioned in the same sentence.
Quote (t8 @ May 26 2010,05:29) Some more trinities. And you thought there was only one. Enjoy.
Peter, James, and John are a trinity because they are listed together in Luke 9:28.
1 Timothy 5:21 says: “I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels.” So that is a subset of the Trinity (The Binity) plus the elect angles with the Holy Spirit not mentioned in this trinity. Yeah, why would you need to do that?
Wait a minute, maybe we shouldn't be trying to create a doctrine at the mere mention of things or people that are mentioned in the same sentence.
t8Your examples do not compare!
They do not share the same name, in a divine manadate which is a basic Biblical doctrine given to us by Jesus!
Try again, you guys only look silly by making such comparisons to Matt 28:18, 19.
WJ
BTW, I might add that it is a mockery of Jesus own words IMO, because it makes his words as if speaking of the “Trinity”, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, is not important or have no significance or like David says “They don't prove anything”.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 26 2010,13:10) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 26 2010,10:30) Hi Jack Nah, I think the JWs would be proud to have him in the Kingdom hall, after all his theology perfectly lines up with theirs. Actually it seems pretty obvious that at one time he was one of them. I am not sure why he left because it doesn't seem like he has changed his theology at all!
If I am wrong about what I say above Mike please tell us!
You are mostly wrong. My mom became a Jehovah's Witness when I was 3. I was 12 or 13 when I rebelled so badly against God and going to church that she no longer made me go to the meetings. I spent most of the next 32 years in and out of rehabs and drug houses. I think I've effectively wiped out any memories of what I might have learned back then. But who knows, maybe it's my subconscience. Either way, I got a whole lot of family that would absolutely love it if I went to the meetings. But I am as honest with them as I am with you – I can't get on board with everything they teach. They do provide a great translation and data base of info that I use, though. But rest assured, my infant understanding of the Scriptures is all mine, not theirs. The arguments I make are my thoughts, although once in a rare while, I'll post JW info about a subject.peace and love,
mike
Mike I am really so sorry that you went through so much. I can relate to that coming from Germany and was there when the Bombs fell lost my Father never met Him, and all i did for the first years of my life lived it up. No drinks or alcohol but never came Home until 2A.M. i did go to Night School and learn first English and Bookkeeping etc. I missed having a Father so bad…and I missed my friends in Germany. As far as the trinity goes I agree with what you have written about it. The first Christians never kept the trinity. So much changed that no one wants to acknowledge at all. Georg and I are labeled by W.J. in one of His post. He also was quit for the longest time until the new members came here. Now we are not only debating Scriptures but ourselves also.
Bless you and I am happy that you turned out so good. Jesus said my Father has given you to me, and I am not going to loose you…..I am looking forward to a new body this one is getting to old and painful….May God be with you always, IreneMike, you ok now.
God saw your plight and brought you round to his way of thinking…do you understand what I just said to you … Like Onesimus?
Quote (t8 @ May 26 2010,21:29) Some more trinities. And you thought there was only one. Enjoy.
Peter, James, and John are a trinity because they are listed together in Luke 9:28.
1 Timothy 5:21 says: “I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels.” So that is a subset of the Trinity (The Binity) plus the elect angles with the Holy Spirit not mentioned in this trinity. Yeah, why would you need to do that?
Wait a minute, maybe we shouldn't be trying to create a doctrine at the mere mention of things or people that are mentioned in the same sentence.
Just a diversionary tactic designed to distract.Jack
Quote (JustAskin @ May 27 2010,08:16) Mike, you ok now. God saw your plight and brought you round to his way of thinking…do you understand what I just said to you … Like Onesimus?
Yeah right JA….God just hit Mike on the head and said, “My Son is a god like satan.”
KJ
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 26 2010,17:08) I didnt realize how old you were lol……
No offense….
Hi Dennison, 
Doesn't Proverbs say gray hair is like a throne or something else good? Getting older sure beats the alternative! 
You said:
Quote So the Father doesnt know the name either? I've always read that scripture with a inferred disclaimer like Paul gives in 1 Cor: “when it says everything, it is clear that doesn't include God…”
We have brains just like Paul. We can be smart enough to know when it says “all power and authority”, it doesn't mean “all” to the point that the Father has none.
Same here. We can infer that he means no one but the Lamb [and his God who knows everything] knows his new name.
You said:
Quote It seems everyone is calling u a JW, but you say u are not so…. ya…its just awkrad. I have just realized that everyone disagrees in this forum. Yet lol we all say we have the truth… yet everyone disagrees….. It seems rare that any two people agree on one thing, let alone two or more things.
I am here to learn, and it has been working wonderfully.Calling someone a JW is the way some of us blow off the very plausible point someone just made because they can't refute it. It is the equivalent to a racial slur. As if the color of someone's skin or their religious affiliations have any bearing on the scripture they just quoted or the argument they just made. Just deal with the scriptures, man. Right?
It's childish and counterproductive, but I've learned to ignore it like you would a screaming kid on an airplane.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Arnold @ May 27 2010,05:00) Mike I am really so sorry that you went through so much. I can relate to that coming from Germany and was there when the Bombs fell lost my Father never met Him, and all i did for the first years of my life lived it up. No drinks or alcohol but never came Home until 2A.M. i did go to Night School and learn first English and Bookkeeping etc. I missed having a Father so bad…and I missed my friends in Germany. As far as the trinity goes I agree with what you have written about it. The first Christians never kept the trinity. So much changed that no one wants to acknowledge at all. Georg and I are labeled by W.J. in one of His post. He also was quit for the longest time until the new members came here. Now we are not only debating Scriptures but ourselves also.
Bless you and I am happy that you turned out so good. Jesus said my Father has given you to me, and I am not going to loose you…..I am looking forward to a new body this one is getting to old and painful….May God be with you always, Irene
Hi Irene,I always like your and Georg's posts. Unlike most people on this site (including me) you rarely seem to get caught up in the name calling and other silliness. You stick mostly to scripture to make your points, and I've learned alot from you both.
Unlike the hardships you've endured, mine were all self-inflicted. I hope for you to know your father again in the reserrection. The English and bookkeeping classes along with other choices you've made along the way are what made you who you are today. And you seem to be blessed and content from what little I know about you from your posts.
There is a saying I like: “Based on the choices I've made, I couldn't possibly expect to find myself anywhere else but where I am.”
I now have the knowledge and faith to make my choices based on God's will, not my own. I fall short every day, but I'm at least striving. Because I still remember how far I sank, I truly know how much higher God has lifted me. I love my life now. And that's a big contrast to waking up almost every morning with thoughts of suicide.
Thank you for your nice words.We just can't seem to get the trinitarians to look into the dark past of how it began, can we? I know you've posted many times about Tertillian?, and the bloodshed. I've recently posted info on Eusebius, who WJ claims as a trinity supporter. It turns out he only faked belief under threat of excommunication. (It's a few pages back in this thread – look for a lot of blue print) I've explained to Is 1:18 how the Holy Spirit wasn't even added as a member of the godhead until 55 years after the Nicene Creed was created. They don't care, and I don't know why.
You and Georg hang in there. Getting old ain't for sissies, is it?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ May 27 2010,08:16) Mike, you ok now. God saw your plight and brought you round to his way of thinking…do you understand what I just said to you … Like Onesimus?
Hello my brother JA!I hear ya and consider myself genao
peace and love to you and even the chit chatters in the office
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,16:26) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 26 2010,17:08) I didnt realize how old you were lol……
No offense….
Hi Dennison, Doesn't Proverbs say gray hair is like a throne or something else good? Getting older sure beats the alternative! You said:
Quote So the Father doesnt know the name either? I've always read that scripture with a inferred disclaimer like Paul gives in 1 Cor: “when it says everything, it is clear that doesn't include God…”
We have brains just like Paul. We can be smart enough to know when it says “all power and authority”, it doesn't mean “all” to the point that the Father has none.
Same here. We can infer that he means no one but the Lamb [and his God who knows everything] knows his new name.
You said:
Quote It seems everyone is calling u a JW, but you say u are not so…. ya…its just awkrad. I have just realized that everyone disagrees in this forum. Yet lol we all say we have the truth… yet everyone disagrees….. It seems rare that any two people agree on one thing, let alone two or more things.
I am here to learn, and it has been working wonderfully.Calling someone a JW is the way some of us blow off the very plausible point someone just made because they can't refute it. It is the equivalent to a racial slur. As if the color of someone's skin or their religious affiliations have any bearing on the scripture they just quoted or the argument they just made. Just deal with the scriptures, man. Right?
It's childish and counterproductive, but I've learned to ignore it like you would a screaming kid on an airplane.
peace and love,
mike
hmmmmm lol
I wouldnt want to tell you how old I am.
I wonder if one can tell?anyways back to the topic man with grey hair,
Your style of conclusions are similiar to kerwins at times.Most of the time you stick with scripture, but i do observe that in others you state what scripture does not say.
You said:Quote We have brains just like Paul. We can be smart enough to know when it says “all power and authority”, it doesn't mean “all” to the point that the Father has none.
You first statement about Paul. I dont know if he had a brain, i never met him. (im trying to tickle you old man) Can we be smart enough…. to understand scripture i doubt it becasue God is smarter than the genius of this world. so im going to have to disregard your comment there. “All Power and Authority”
Corinthians 15:24 “Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”Idk about your conclusion. How do you intepret this verse? In spanish God and father are not seperated. just a observation. Who shall put down all rule and all authority and power.
Again if your sticking to your last comment about that it didnt include God. It didnt say, so we couldnt say it did or didnt. It said all. whatever that means in greek. ill look it up later. than later in the chapter it says God maybe all in all. Intresting….
You said
Quote Same here. We can infer that he means no one but the Lamb [and his God who knows everything] knows his new name. This is the same problem here. If we assume or speculate what scripture does not say, than i might as well also speculate that the Holy Spirit knows too. If Jesus was God than that wouldnt be a problem. but in this case it is.
lol….jw…. thats funny.
I guess…i know what your talking abuot, it seems many have droped points that cant be refuted. I think mostly everyone is guilty of that lol.
Just deal with the scriptures, exactly, Your a cool old guy, (immature moment)
anyways!!! IT does seem that no one agrees lol. if no one agrees yet we say we have truth, whats the point of being right? I do not understand the logic…of being right…
Much love,
Mucho amor senor,
Mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) I have claimed that Jesus speaks of “a trinity” in response to your statement “there is not even a hint of a trinity found in the Bible”. You were wrong Mike! Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 25 2010,11:49) Is that all it will take? Okay, I'll rephrase what I said, even though you know full well what I meant.
Yes Mike I knew exactly what you meant, and that was “there was not even a hint of a trinity in the Bible”. Matt 28:18, 19 is more than a hint isn't it?Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) There is not even a hint of a trinity godhead that is made up of three separate yet equal persons in the Bible.
That is your opinion yet you cannot answer the questions I have presented to you to show what attributes the Father has that Jesus and the Holy Spirit does not have!Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) Now where is your “one plain, easy to understand Scripture” to prove me wrong? Preferrably one that says, “God is three persons inside one godhead”.
And where is your one plain scripture that specifically says Jesus and the Holy Spirit is not “Theos” aka God?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 25 2010,11:49) You completely ran away from my post on that and didn't address the scriptures clearly showing the Holy Spirit having authority over the Apostles in the book of Acts! Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) I didn't run away. Maybe you missed my answer. I said that any time you read about the Holy Spirit having any kind of authority, remember that means God's authority is being enforced THROUGH His Holy Spirit.
This is double talk Mike and an attempt for you to weasel out of your original statement! In you’re your statements above you are saying “…that any time you read about the Holy Spirit having any kind of authority…”So you admit the Holy Spirit has authority even if it is as you say given to him by the Father, (though I do not see how you can claim an amorphous force or power or impersonal it can receive anything). But here is your original statement again…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 12 2010,21:56) One last point: You mentioned to Marty that the Holy Spirit had power and authority. Where does Scripture say that the Holy Spirit has authority over anything?
But now once again you are changing your statement to “…that any time you read about THE HOLY SPIRIT HAVING ANY KIND OF AUTHORITY remember that means God's authority is being enforced THROUGH His Holy Spirit ”This is more of your word games Mike! This is the same kind of word games and dance you play with Jesus having “all authority and power”, but Mike says he doesn’t reign now or have any real authority or power of his own because it was given to him by the Father!
Your logic says a Police officer who is given the authority and power to execute the law really doesn’t have any authority or power. Try resisting arrest one time or breaking the law and see what kind of authority or power the Officer has.
If the Holy Spirit has authority as a separate person, then what does this mean?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) Matt 10: 19But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
The question you have to ask yourself Mike is why Jesus said the “Spirit of your Father” is “Speaking”? Things, its, forces, powers do not speak through people. God does!So why did Jesus say the “Spirit of your Father” if it is the Father? Why didn’t Jesus simply say “it is your Father who is speaking through you?
You think that because it says “The Spirit of” means the Holy Spirit is not a person! But only persons speak Mike. Jesus is the Son of God and he is a person, Angels are referred to as Angels of God, but they are persons, so why do you think the Holy Spirit is not a person? Why all the extra Biblical language if the Holy Spirit is the Father?
So if the Holy Spirit is not a person then how do you explain this verse?
”NOW THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT”: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 1 Cor 3:17
Notice Paul is calling the Spirit, Lord! How do you explain this Mike?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) Now you probably think the Spirit will actually tell them what to say. But compare to this verse,
No it clearly says it is the Spirit that is doing the Speaking! Hello!!!… 20 FOR IT WILL NOT BE YOU SPEAKING, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) John 16:13 NIV
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.Hears from whom? When is God ever said to speak only what He hears, or is taught? And look at this,
Why not say “he hears from whom”. Only persons can hear and speak! Think about what you just said, you said…When is God ever said to speak only what He hears, or is taught?
First of all
you are implying something that is not in the verse. The verse does not say the Holy Spirit is being taught does it Mike? Secondly, you are now admitting that the Holy Spirit is “another” who “hears and speaks what he hears”. Hello!!! Thirdly who is the Holy Spirit hearing from? Could it be that the Holy Spirit of God is subservient to Jesus here (after the resurrection and his Glorification of course), yep that is the context, the Holy Spirit is taking from Jesus and giving to us? So Jesus has the “Authority” to tell the Holy Spirit what to say who in turn has the “Authority” to teach us and tell us what to do! Get the picture Mike. The three are One working in perfect harmony with each other!So let’s continue with the scripture in its context…
HE SHALL GLORIFY ME: FOR HE SHALL RECEIVE OF MINE, AND SHALL SHEW IT UNTO YOU. John 16:14
Do things or an “it” Glorify anyone? Do things or an “it” receive anything? Do things or an it shew to others what it receives”? Get the picture Mikey?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) John 3:34 NIV
For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.Is it beginning to make sense to you? Jesus didn't speak the words of “God the Spirit”, but the words of God which were given him THROUGH God's Spirit.
Where do the scriptures say that Jesus spoke the words of God that were given him through the Holy Spirit? Why the extra Biblical language if it is the Father speaking? God is Spirit and Jesus said with his own words that the Father was in him, but we also know that the Holy Spirit was in him. Why doesn’t the writer say the Father in him speaks, Oh that’s right he did! Yet we know that the Holy Spirit is “another” by Jesus own words and by Johns words that it is the “Spirit of the Father that speaks”.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) The Spirit is not another god, but something the only God gives to whomever He chooses…
You are right; the Holy Spirit is not another god, the Holy Spirit is God, one with the Father and Jesus! When are you going to get it Mike? When the Father speaks it is God speaking, when Jesus speaks it is God speaking, when the Holy Spirit speaks it is God speaking!Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) One more, John 8:28 NIV
So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.How did the Father “teach” your co-equal god? Through His Spirit that speaks ONLY what God speaks THROUGH it.
First of all the Holy Spirit is not mentioned in the verse, and secondly the fact that Jesus “ONLY” does and speaks what the Father shows him is proof that he is God and One with the Father, for we have the Holy Spirit also yet we fail to “Always” do and speak what the Father says. Secondly you once again are ignoring Phil 2:6-8 where Jesus emptied himself and came in the likeness of sinful flesh. John 1:1, 14, 18.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) You're a smart man, WJ. This shouldn't be so hard for you.
Thank you! It isn’t hard for me because I do not have to dance and jump through hoops to explain away scriptures so I can hang on to my manmade doctrines!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 25 2010,11:49) However in your example you have shown nothing and have failed to show us how the Throne in Revelations is two thrones when there is only “One River” flowing out of it! Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) Is there one or are there two thrones? Does God have one and the Lamb have another? Isn't that what Rev says?
In the New Heavens and the New earth there is “ONE” throne with One River flowing from it.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 25 2010,11:49) Do you know how many tributary rivers the Mississippi river flows “out of”? Well, neither do I, but there's a lot of them. Can a river not flow out of two separate streams?
Yadayadayada. The problem you have is Revelations 22:1-3 does not have the word “Rivers” or “streams”, there is only “One river of Life”! Look again Mike…Then the angel showed me the RIVER (potamov – Singular masculine noun) of the water (uèdwr – singular Neuter noun) of life”, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne (qro/nov – Singular masculine noun ) of God and of the Lamb. Rev 22
Check the Greek Mike, the words “River” and “Throne” are not in the plural form! There is only one Throne Mike! Jesus is sharing the throne with the Father!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) So it is not my point, but yours that is moot. Rev tells of a throne for God and a throne for the Lamb. Later John words it to say, “the throne of God and of the Lamb”.
No Mike your point is moot because you again deny the Greek text and read into whatever you want. Revelations 22 is after the New Creation Mike! Besides Mike there are other scriptures that say Jesus is sitting or standing in the Fathers throne! Pharaoh didn’t allow Joseph to share that Glory, but the Father does, imagine that!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 25 2010,11:49) But your contention is that the Apostles disobeyed the mandate or that the scriptures are corrupt. You lose Mike when you claim the scriptures are corrupt because the debates are about what is written in the scriptures which are the inspired wo
rd of God.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) And as I said, it is not because you think it proves your trinity God that I wonder about the authenticity of the scripture in question, but because none of the disciples are shown to have baptized this way.
So in order to support your doctrine it has to be either the Apostles disobeyed the Lord or Jesus never spoke the words and the scriptures are corrupt? How convenient Mike? What if I said that 1 Cor 8:6 was corrupt because Paul also calls Jesus his Great God and Savour so it can’t be right in order to support my doctrine? I would be crucified for saying your proof text is corrupt wouldn’t I? You loose Mike by claiming the scriptures are corrupt or contradictory!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 25 2010,11:49) You mean “YHWH” the Tetragammation which know one knows the exact pronunciation of? Here is what many believe Jesus was meaning in using a singular name for three distinct identities.
In the name of the President and of the Vise President and of the power plant”
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) How many American vice presidents have you know of that had the same name ( or even “power and authority”) as the President? So the singular “name” would easily be taken by any normal person to actually mean “names”, right? But the sentence still grammatically works.
What in the world did you just say?
At any rate even if you say that each have a “Name” then it still means that the Holy Spirit has a personal name like the Father and Jesus. Jesus didn’t just jump from speaking of two having a “Personal Name” to an “IT” or a “Thing”, especially being that he said “in the name (singular) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit! You are just denying any common sense and doing a dance!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 25 2010,11:49) he also has the Divine name Emmanuel which means “God with us”. Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) Or “God is with us”, right?
Whats the difference, Jesus has the name doesn’t he? Trinitarians by claiming Jesus “is God with us” fulfill this scripture, ATs do not call him by his name which also speaks of his nature!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 25 2010,11:49) YHWH has many names Mike… Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) I disagree. God gave us only one personal name for Himself. “I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be”. He has many titles and many adjectives added to His name.
You are missing my point Mike! You cannot say that YHWH is any more his name than any of the other names I give which depict his nature as well, because the true pronunciation is lost. So again take your pick!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 25 2010,11:49) It is in the name of Jesus that all things are done! Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 25 2010,11:49) Why? Isn't because no one can come to God except THROUGH the name of Jesus? Think about it, Keith. If we cannot approach God directly, but have to approach Him THROUGH His Son, isnt' this enough to tell you that Jesus is NOT God?
No just the opposite! YHWH said…THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME. Ex 20:3
Now has YHWH changed his mind and put a created being before him by telling the creation to serve him with absolute devotion even to the death, especially when he has said you shall not serve other gods?
Would YHWH put a created being between man and himself and say there is no other way to him but through this lesser created being? Not according to the Hebrew scriptures or the Hebrew faith.
This is why the Jew does not accept Jesus as the Messiah, because his claims were that he was equal to God. Still the same today!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2010,20:50) If Jesus is God, then we wouldn't be able to approach him either. But he's not, is he? No – he's the MEDIATOR BETWEEN us and God.
Ok Mike then tell us how Moses and the Patriarchs approached him? Your reasoning is flawed because that is the reason that God came in the flesh is so that man could approach him. God made himself visible by coming in the likeness of sinful flesh and fulfilling his word that he is the Only Savour! When the Patriarchs saw God they were seeing Jesus Mike. Some day you will realize that Jesus is the “Image of the invisible God” or the visible image of God.But the ATs have created for themselves a false image of the invisible God by seeing Jesus as less than God who is the visible image of God and the express image of his person or nature!
Jesus is God made visible or God in the flesh!
WJ
Hi WJ,
Jesus came in the flesh.
God came in the flesh of His Son.
God should be in you in the same way.[Eph3.19]Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2010,08:25) Hi WJ,
Jesus came in the flesh.
God came in the flesh of His Son.
God should be in you in the same way.[Eph3.19]
Nick,Anathema!
KJ
WorshippingJesus said to Mike:
Quote But now once again you are changing your statement to “…that any time you read about THE HOLY SPIRIT HAVING ANY KIND OF AUTHORITY remember that means God's authority is being enforced THROUGH His Holy Spirit ”
WJ,This reflects the frustration that Mike put me through. He flip flops a lot.
Memba this:
On March 30 Mike admitted that he cannot prove scripturally that Jesus was begotten before His creation.
“When was Jesus begotten? While I think it was from his very creation, I cannot Scripturally prove it”. But he wasted a whole lot of his and my time trying to prove it.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=80
On March 31 Mike admitted that the Greek “arche” in reference to Jesus in Revelation 3:14 could be translated “ruler.”
“Now that I know more (thank you for that), I agree that in 3:14 it could be translated as “ruler”.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=80
But on March 26 he outright accused trinitarians of “doctoring the scriptures” for the last 1800 years and “flat out lying” about Revelation 3:14.
“My point to all this is that the Trinitarians have been doctoring the Scriptures and changing the meanings of clearly written Scriptures for 1800 years. Lately, they just keep getting more and more blatant about it. The NIV is the most prominent translation in America today, at least with the younger, post-King James readers, and they are flat out lying about Rev 3:14 and Col 1:15.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=70
roo
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