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John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?Apparently Jesus was making the point that it would be blasphemy to be saying that He was God-the Father, but not blasphemy to be implying that He is God the Son since in scripture, God called some group referred to as 'sons of God' as 'gods.' God, the Father didn't call them 'God the Father' but gods as 'sons of God.' Jesus goes on to say that He is a Son in a unique way compared to those 'sons of God' referred to in that passage. He claims to be the Father's very own son.
Ok, gotta go…
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 13 2013,02:29) John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?Apparently Jesus was making the point that it would be blasphemy to be saying that He was God-the Father, but not blasphemy to be implying that He is God the Son since in scripture, God called some group referred to as 'sons of God' as 'gods.' God, the Father didn't call them 'God the Father' but gods as 'sons of God.' Jesus goes on to say that He is a Son in a unique way compared to those 'sons of God' referred to in that passage. He claims to be the Father's very own son.
Ok, gotta go…
Actually Jesus didn't seperate or confuse the idea that God orthe Father were different ideas so he simply said”God” where do you read in the bible anywhere the phrase “God the Father” just interestedHi Bo,
You asked:
Quote Actually Jesus didn't seperate or confuse the idea that God orthe Father were different ideas so he simply said”God” where do you read in the bible anywhere the phrase “God the Father” just interested These are just some of the many for you to look at:
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
1 Thess 1:1 Paul, Silas and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace and peace to you.
2 John 1:3 Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father's Son, will be with us in truth and love
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle–sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead–
2 Thes 1:2 Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Tim 1:2 To Timothy, my dear son: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Col 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
1 Pet 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
2 Pet 1:17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
Eph 6:23 Peace to the brothers, and love with faith from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Titus 1:4 To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Philippians 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father .
Ephesians 5:20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
Jude 1:1 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 13 2013,15:24) Hi Bo, You asked:
Quote Actually Jesus didn't seperate or confuse the idea that God orthe Father were different ideas so he simply said”God” where do you read in the bible anywhere the phrase “God the Father” just interested These are just some of the many for you to look at:
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
1 Thess 1:1 Paul, Silas and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace and peace to you.
2 John 1:3 Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father's Son, will be with us in truth and love
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle–sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead–
2 Thes 1:2 Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Tim 1:2 To Timothy, my dear son: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Col 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
1 Pet 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
2 Pet 1:17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
Eph 6:23 Peace to the brothers, and love with faith from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Titus 1:4 To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Philippians 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father .
Ephesians 5:20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
Jude 1:1 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
I guess what I meant was where do you find the conyext in which you are using it such as saying “God the Father and God the Son”Many of the verses you listed are not saying what you think it is saying especially when you see a comma.
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
This verse alone goes completely against your MULTIGOD theory, but you will try to spin it again into something it doesn't mean or say.
Bo,
Is our one Lord Jesus Christ called God by the Father in this passage:
Heb 1:8
But about the Son he says,“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”f
Bo,
Quote I guess what I meant was where do you find the conyext in which you are using it such as saying “God the Father and God the Son” Many of the verses you listed are not saying what you think it is saying especially when you see a comma.
What difference does the comma make between:
God the Father
and
God, the Father
??NONE!!
As to your other question…context quite frequently combines the Father with the Son in the NT. I don't think that it is written just as you have asked about where they are both called God in the same verse except in Heb 1. Jesus is usually called Lord and the Father is usually called God in the NT. That doesn't mean that the Father is not Lord or the Jesus is not God in those passages. They are given those appellations elsewhere.
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2013,07:13) Bo,
Is our one Lord Jesus Christ called God by the Father in this passage:
Heb 1:8
But about the Son he says,“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”f
You bring up Hebrews 1:8but look at this:
Psalm 45:5-7
New International Version (NIV)
5 Let your sharp arrows pierce the hearts of the king’s enemies;
let the nations fall beneath your feet.
6 Your throne, O God,will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.Is this also referring to Jesus? You simply do not understand the scriptural usage of language, poetics, metaphor and analogy but that's okay I love you still
Hi Bo,
you asked:Quote Psalm 45:5-7 New International Version (NIV)
5 Let your sharp arrows pierce the hearts of the king’s enemies;
let the nations fall beneath your feet.
6 Your throne, O God,will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.Is this also referring to Jesus?
Yes, this is also referring to Jesus.
Quote You simply do not understand the scriptural usage of language, poetics, metaphor and analogy but that's okay I love you still Well, you have made a bold statement there. Please substantiate that I do not understand the scriptural usage of language, poetics, metaphor and analogy. Back up your opinion with real examples. Thanks!
Also, thanks for loving me still…:)
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 17 2013,04:36) Hi Bo,
you asked:Quote Psalm 45:5-7 New International Version (NIV)
5 Let your sharp arrows pierce the hearts of the king’s enemies;
let the nations fall beneath your feet.
6 Your throne, O God,will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.Is this also referring to Jesus?
Yes, this is also referring to Jesus.
Quote You simply do not understand the scriptural usage of language, poetics, metaphor and analogy but that's okay I love you still Well, you have made a bold statement there. Please substantiate that I do not understand the scriptural usage of language, poetics, metaphor and analogy. Back up your opinion with real examples. Thanks!
Also, thanks for loving me still…:)
So you attribute Psalm 45 to Jesu 450 years before his birth?Who did the people of that day attribute it to?
Hi Bo,
You will see in this Targum of the Psalms translation that v. 3 speaks of the beauty of 'King Messiah' in Psalm 45, and therefore shows that the Rabbi's applied this passage to be about the Messiah. The dating of the Targum of the Psalms is uncertain.Psalm 45
1. For praise; concerning those who sit in the Sanhedrin of Moses, which was spoken in prophecy by the sons of Korah; a good lesson, and a psalm, and a thanksgiving.
2. My heart desires fine speech; I will speak my work to the king; the utterance of my tongue is quick, like the pen of a fluent scribe.
3. Your beauty, O King Messiah, is greater than the sons of men; the spirit of prophecy has been placed on your lips; because of this the Lord[25] has blessed you forever.
4. Gird your sword on your thigh, O champion;[26] your glory[27] and your brilliance is to kill kings as well as rulers.
5. And your brilliance is great; therefore you will succeed in mounting the horse[28] of the kingdom, by reason of faithfulness and truth and humility and righteousness; and the Lord will teach you to do fearful things with your right hand.
6. Your arrows are drawn to kill Gentile hordes; beneath you they will fall; and the sons[29] of your bow will be released into the heart of the enemies of the king.
7. The throne of your glory, O Lord,[30] lasts forever and ever; the scepter of your kingdom is an upright scepter.
8. Because you[31] have loved righteousness and hated wickedness – because of this the Lord your God has anointed you with the oil of gladness more than your fellows.
9. Pure myrrh and aloe-wood and cassia – your garments are perfected, from the palaces paved with ivory below;[32] from me they will make you glad.
from here: http://targum.info/pss/ps2.htmCompare to:
This is Psalms 45 in the NIV
1My heart is stirred by a noble theme
as I recite my verses for the king;
my tongue is the pen of a skillful writer.
2You are the most excellent of men
and your lips have been anointed with grace,
since God has blessed you forever.
3Gird your sword upon your side, O mighty one;
clothe yourself with splendor and majesty.
4In your majesty ride forth victoriously
in behalf of truth, humility and righteousness;
let your right hand display awesome deeds.
5Let your sharp arrows pierce the hearts of the king’s enemies;
let the nations fall beneath your feet.
6Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
7You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.
8All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia;
from palaces adorned with ivory
the music of the strings makes you glad.
9Daughters of kings are among your honored women;
at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir.
Have you heard of Messianic prophecies, Bo? This is an example of that.
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 19 2013,15:28) Hi Bo,
You will see in this Targum of the Psalms translation that v. 3 speaks of the beauty of 'King Messiah' in Psalm 45, and therefore shows that the Rabbi's applied this passage to be about the Messiah. The dating of the Targum of the Psalms is uncertain.Psalm 45
1. For praise; concerning those who sit in the Sanhedrin of Moses, which was spoken in prophecy by the sons of Korah; a good lesson, and a psalm, and a thanksgiving.
2. My heart desires fine speech; I will speak my work to the king; the utterance of my tongue is quick, like the pen of a fluent scribe.
3. Your beauty, O King Messiah, is greater than the sons of men; the spirit of prophecy has been placed on your lips; because of this the Lord[25] has blessed you forever.
4. Gird your sword on your thigh, O champion;[26] your glory[27] and your brilliance is to kill kings as well as rulers.
5. And your brilliance is great; therefore you will succeed in mounting the horse[28] of the kingdom, by reason of faithfulness and truth and humility and righteousness; and the Lord will teach you to do fearful things with your right hand.
6. Your arrows are drawn to kill Gentile hordes; beneath you they will fall; and the sons[29] of your bow will be released into the heart of the enemies of the king.
7. The throne of your glory, O Lord,[30] lasts forever and ever; the scepter of your kingdom is an upright scepter.
8. Because you[31] have loved righteousness and hated wickedness – because of this the Lord your God has anointed you with the oil of gladness more than your fellows.
9. Pure myrrh and aloe-wood and cassia – your garments are perfected, from the palaces paved with ivory below;[32] from me they will make you glad.
from here: http://targum.info/pss/ps2.htmCompare to:
This is Psalms 45 in the NIV
1My heart is stirred by a noble theme
as I recite my verses for the king;
my tongue is the pen of a skillful writer.
2You are the most excellent of men
and your lips have been anointed with grace,
since God has blessed you forever.
3Gird your sword upon your side, O mighty one;
clothe yourself with splendor and majesty.
4In your majesty ride forth victoriously
in behalf of truth, humility and righteousness;
let your right hand display awesome deeds.
5Let your sharp arrows pierce the hearts of the king’s enemies;
let the nations fall beneath your feet.
6Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
7You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.
8All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia;
from palaces adorned with ivory
the music of the strings makes you glad.
9Daughters of kings are among your honored women;
at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir.
Have you heard of Messianic prophecies, Bo? This is an example of that.
450 years before the fact would be a prophecy not fulfilled in a life time which is usually the measurement of prophetic success in general. For instance explained here:Deuteronomy 18:22
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.Based upon that verse how would you know unless the prophecy occured in your lifetime or at least the life of your generation?
Hi Bo,
you asked:Quote 450 years before the fact would be a prophecy not fulfilled in a life time which is usually the measurement of prophetic success in general. For instance explained here: Deuteronomy 18:22
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.Based upon that verse how would you know unless the prophecy occured in your lifetime or at least the life of your generation?
Take a look at this excerpt from a web site article showing all the prophecies about the Messiah in the Psalms:
For now, so that the reader may have an idea how vast and detailed are the prophecies about the Messiah in the psalms, we will cite a list of these prophecies in the order of their content: About the coming of the Messiah — psalms 17, 49, 67, 95-97. About the Kingdom of the Messiah — 2, 17, 19, 20, 45, 65, 72, 110, 132. About the priesthood of the Messiah — 110. About the sufferings, death and resurrection of the Messiah — 16, 22, 31, 41, 41, 65, 68, 98. In psalms 41, 55 and 109 — about Judas the traitor. About the ascension of Christ to Heaven — 68. Christ — the foundation of the Church — 118. About the glory of the Messiah — 8. About the last judgment — 97. About the inheritance of the righteous eternal peace — 94.In order to understand the prophetic psalms one must remember that David, like other great righteous men in the Old Testament, represented the prototype of Christ. For this reason often, when he writes in the first person, as if about himself, for example, about sufferings (Psalm 22), or about glory (about the resurrection from the dead in Psalm 16), they refer not to David, but to Christ.
Obviously these prophecies weren't fulfilled during the life of those people that were told these prophecies about the Messiah originally, nevertheless most of them have been fulfilled over time and some are yet to be fulfilled. A prophecy is not considered false if it doesn't happen during the hearer's lifetime unless it was meant to happen during the hearer's lifetime. The Deuteronomy verse doesn't limit a prophecy to be fulfilled during the hearer's lifetime in order to be true. Some prophecies are fulfilled during the lifetime of the hearer and some are yet to be fulfilled many generations later.
In regards to Heb 1 and Psalms 45…Heb 1 is confirming the fulfillment of Psalms 45 as applied to the Son.
I haven't looked at all those prophecies listed in Psalms but it would be interesting to do so. It is from this website:
http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/messiah/david.shtmlQuote (Lightenup @ Jan. 21 2013,08:19) Hi Bo,
you asked:Quote 450 years before the fact would be a prophecy not fulfilled in a life time which is usually the measurement of prophetic success in general. For instance explained here: Deuteronomy 18:22
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.Based upon that verse how would you know unless the prophecy occured in your lifetime or at least the life of your generation?
Take a look at this excerpt from a web site article showing all the prophecies about the Messiah in the Psalms:
For now, so that the reader may have an idea how vast and detailed are the prophecies about the Messiah in the psalms, we will cite a list of these prophecies in the order of their content: About the coming of the Messiah — psalms 17, 49, 67, 95-97. About the Kingdom of the Messiah — 2, 17, 19, 20, 45, 65, 72, 110, 132. About the priesthood of the Messiah — 110. About the sufferings, death and resurrection of the Messiah — 16, 22, 31, 41, 41, 65, 68, 98. In psalms 41, 55 and 109 — about Judas the traitor. About the ascension of Christ to Heaven — 68. Christ — the foundation of the Church — 118. About the glory of the Messiah — 8. About the last judgment — 97. About the inheritance of the righteous eternal peace — 94.In order to understand the prophetic psalms one must remember that David, like other great righteous men in the Old Testament, represented the prototype of Christ. For this reason often, when he writes in the first person, as if about himself, for example, about sufferings (Psalm 22), or about glory (about the resurrection from the dead in Psalm 16), they refer not to David, but to Christ.
Obviously these prophecies weren't fulfilled during the life of those people that were told these prophecies about the Messiah originally, nevertheless most of them have been fulfilled over time and some are yet to be fulfilled. A prophecy is not considered false if it doesn't happen during the hearer's lifetime unless it was meant to happen during the hearer's lifetime. The Deuteronomy verse doesn't limit a prophecy to be fulfilled during the hearer's lifetime in order to be true. Some prophecies are fulfilled during the lifetime of the hearer and some are yet to be fulfilled many generations later.
In regards to Heb 1 and Psalms 45…Heb 1 is confirming the fulfillment of Psalms 45 as applied to the Son.
I haven't looked at all those prophecies listed in Psalms but it would be interesting to do so. It is from this website:
http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/messiah/david.shtml
I guess you missed my point, If I told you I was a prophet how would you know it was true unless a prophecy of mine came true during my life and more explicitly during your life if the prophecy was told to you?When hundreds of years go by you can claim anything was the result of this prophecy. For instance if the prophecy is about an everlasting King how do you declare this to be Christ when at the moment on earth Christ is not the reining King of the world in earthly terms?
Bo,
you asked:Quote
I guess you missed my point, If I told you I was a prophet how would you know it was true unless a prophecy of mine came true during my life and more explicitly during your life if the prophecy was told to you?If you only declared one prophecy and didn't declare it to happen in yours or my lifetime, then I wouldn't know but that alone wouldn't make you not a prophet. If you had declared several prophecies that did occur in my lifetime and some that hadn't occured but were supposed to according to you, in my lifetime, then you would be unreliable to trust completely as a prophet.
Quote When hundreds of years go by you can claim anything was the result of this prophecy. For instance if the prophecy is about an everlasting King how do you declare this to be Christ when at the moment on earth Christ is not the reining King of the world in earthly terms? As I showed you, Jewish understanding was that this was a Messianic prophecy before Jesus became a man. Many Jews did not believe Jesus was the Messiah but as time went on, more and more prophecies were pointing to Jesus and these fulfilled prophecies gave Jesus credibility as the Messiah especially after He conquered the grave and came back with all authority.
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 23 2013,12:28) Bo,
you asked:Quote
I guess you missed my point, If I told you I was a prophet how would you know it was true unless a prophecy of mine came true during my life and more explicitly during your life if the prophecy was told to you?If you only declared one prophecy and didn't declare it to happen in yours or my lifetime, then I wouldn't know but that alone wouldn't make you not a prophet. If you had declared several prophecies that did occur in my lifetime and some that hadn't occured but were supposed to according to you, in my lifetime, then you would be unreliable to trust completely as a prophet.
Quote When hundreds of years go by you can claim anything was the result of this prophecy. For instance if the prophecy is about an everlasting King how do you declare this to be Christ when at the moment on earth Christ is not the reining King of the world in earthly terms? As I showed you, Jewish understanding was that this was a Messianic prophecy before Jesus became a man. Many Jews did not believe Jesus was the Messiah but as time went on, more and more prophecies were pointing to Jesus and these fulfilled prophecies gave Jesus credibility as the Messiah especially after He conquered the grave and came back with all authority.
In the Quran Jesus is not mentioned to have risen from the dead or crucified. Historically Jesus never appeared to any of those who rejected him after he “rose” why do you believe Jesus did not appear to the non-believing Jews and Romans?Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 24 2013,02:41) Bo,
He did appear to a non-believing Jew…Paul.
He didn't appear to Paul right after his resurrection, did he?Jesus appeared to Saul/Paul after Pentecost which was after His ascension when the church was beginning to be established and Saul was taking part in having the Christians stoned/killed for speaking in the name of Jesus.
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 24 2013,20:45) Jesus appeared to Saul/Paul after Pentecost which was after His ascension when the church was beginning to be established and Saul was taking part in having the Christians stoned/killed for speaking in the name of Jesus.
Why do you think no showing for Pontious Pilate or the Sanhedrin and also with Paul no “PHYSICAL” Jesus was shown at all which is odd since Jesus ascended in the flesh, right?
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