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Hi Bo,
you said:Quote Knowing what would happen to him doesn't include his approval, do you not recall he considered the act of Judas as betrayal?
The act of Judas was betrayal and another instance where Jesus proclaimed what would take place before it took place.
Knowing what would happen to Him (Jesus), gave Him great credibility that He was from God the Father and you are right that knowing ahead does not in and of itself mean that He approved of what was about to happen but it also doesn't mean that He didn't approve of what was about to happen.Read this to see that Jesus had a 'bring it on' kind of attitude to His crucifixion:
Isaiah 50
4The Sovereign Lord has given me a well-instructed tongue,to know the word that sustains the weary.
He wakens me morning by morning,
wakens my ear to listen like one being instructed.
5The Sovereign Lord has opened my ears;
I have not been rebellious,
I have not turned away.
6I offered my back to those who beat me,
my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard;
I did not hide my face
from mocking and spitting.
7Because the Sovereign Lord helps me,
I will not be disgraced.
Therefore have I set my face like flint,
and I know I will not be put to shame.
8He who vindicates me is near.
Who then will bring charges against me?
Let us face each other!
Who is my accuser?
Let him confront me!
9It is the Sovereign Lord who helps me.
Who will condemn me?
They will all wear out like a garment;
the moths will eat them up.
Quote Plus he said he had only come to the lost sheep of Israel an to not go to th gentiles, is that correct? At that time He was going to the lost sheep of Israel, true, but later He sent the gospel to all nations. The plan to provide salvation to all men was God's plan before the foundation of the world.
Paul’s Ministry to the Church:
Col 1:24Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, 25of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, 26the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. 27To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. 29For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.
Regarding Matthew 15:24, here is what Gill says in his commentary on the verse:
But he answered, and said,…. To his disciples, who knew how limited their commission was, that they were not to go into the way of the Gentiles, not to preach to them, nor perform miracles among them; and therefore could not reasonably expect that either the woman, or they, on her behalf, should succeed in this matter.
I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel; as a priest, or as a Saviour and Redeemer, he was sent to make satisfaction and atonement for the sins of all God's elect, and to obtain eternal redemption and salvation for all of them, whether Jews or Gentiles; but as a prophet, in the discharge of his own personal ministry, he was sent by his Father only to the Jews; he was the “minister of the circumcision”, Romans 15:8 that is, a minister to the circumcised Jews; he was sent only to preach the Gospel to them, and work miracles among them, in proof of his Messiahship; and upon their rejection of him, then his apostles were to be sent among the Gentiles; but he himself was sent only to the Jews, here styled “the lost sheep of the house of Israel”: by “the house of Israel”, is meant the whole body of the Jewish nation, so called from Israel, the name of Jacob their father, from whom they sprung; and by the “lost sheep” of that house, are more especially designed the elect of God among them: for though all the individuals of that house were “lost” persons, considered in Adam, and in themselves, as the rest of mankind, and Christ, in the external ministry of the word, was sent to preach to them all; yet the elect of God are only “sheep”: they are the sheep of Christ, of his pasture, and of his hand, whom he has the particular care and charge of; and who, in their natural state, are lost and straying, and could never find their way, or recover themselves from their lost state in Adam, and by their own transgressions; but he came to seek, and to save them, and to these his ministry was powerful and efficacious.
Quote
and again did he ask that “this cup be taken from me”?You keep asking this, read Isaiah 50 in this post and see that He ultimately had a 'bring it on' attitude with this 'cup.'
Quote (Lightenup @ June 18 2013,05:33) Hi Bo,
you said:Quote Knowing what would happen to him doesn't include his approval, do you not recall he considered the act of Judas as betrayal?
The act of Judas was betrayal and another instance where Jesus proclaimed what would take place before it took place.
Knowing what would happen to Him (Jesus), gave Him great credibility that He was from God the Father and you are right that knowing ahead does not in and of itself mean that He approved of what was about to happen but it also doesn't mean that He didn't approve of what was about to happen.Read this to see that Jesus had a 'bring it on' kind of attitude to His crucifixion:
Isaiah 50
4The Sovereign Lord has given me a well-instructed tongue,to know the word that sustains the weary.
He wakens me morning by morning,
wakens my ear to listen like one being instructed.
5The Sovereign Lord has opened my ears;
I have not been rebellious,
I have not turned away.
6I offered my back to those who beat me,
my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard;
I did not hide my face
from mocking and spitting.
7Because the Sovereign Lord helps me,
I will not be disgraced.
Therefore have I set my face like flint,
and I know I will not be put to shame.
8He who vindicates me is near.
Who then will bring charges against me?
Let us face each other!
Who is my accuser?
Let him confront me!
9It is the Sovereign Lord who helps me.
Who will condemn me?
They will all wear out like a garment;
the moths will eat them up.
Quote Plus he said he had only come to the lost sheep of Israel an to not go to th gentiles, is that correct? At that time He was going to the lost sheep of Israel, true, but later He sent the gospel to all nations. The plan to provide salvation to all men was God's plan before the foundation of the world.
Paul’s Ministry to the Church:
Col 1:24Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, 25of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, 26the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. 27To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. 29For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.
Regarding Matthew 15:24, here is what Gill says in his commentary on the verse:
But he answered, and said,…. To his disciples, who knew how limited their commission was, that they were not to go into the way of the Gentiles, not to preach to them, nor perform miracles among them; and therefore could not reasonably expect that either the woman, or they, on her behalf, should succeed in this matter.
I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel; as a priest, or as a Saviour and Redeemer, he was sent to make satisfaction and atonement for the sins of all God's elect, and to obtain eternal redemption and salvation for all of them, whether Jews or Gentiles; but as a prophet, in the discharge of his own personal ministry, he was sent by his Father only to the Jews; he was the “minister of the circumcision”, Romans 15:8 that is, a minister to the circumcised Jews; he was sent only to preach the Gospel to them, and work miracles among them, in proof of his Messiahship; and upon their rejection of him, then his apostles were to be sent among the Gentiles; but he himself was sent only to the Jews, here styled “the lost sheep of the house of Israel”: by “the house of Israel”, is meant the whole body of the Jewish nation, so called from Israel, the name of Jacob their father, from whom they sprung; and by the “lost sheep” of that house, are more especially designed the elect of God among them: for though all the individuals of that house were “lost” persons, considered in Adam, and in themselves, as the rest of mankind, and Christ, in the external ministry of the word, was sent to preach to them all; yet the elect of God are only “sheep”: they are the sheep of Christ, of his pasture, and of his hand, whom he has the particular care and charge of; and who, in their natural state, are lost and straying, and could never find their way, or recover themselves from their lost state in Adam, and by their own transgressions; but he came to seek, and to save them, and to these his ministry was powerful and efficacious.
Quote
and again did he ask that “this cup be taken from me”?You keep asking this, read Isaiah 50 in this post and see that He ultimately had a 'bring it on' attitude with this 'cup.'
“He who vindicates me is near”Jesus asked the cup to be taken from him and we believe it was taken from him as Jesus suggested it would be.
You believe that Jesus was shamed dying the death of one CURSED on the cross. You believe Jesus bcame a CURSE for you
Without that sacrifice that Jesus made we have no salvation. Because of His death on the cross our sins are paid for and the church has been redeemed. The curse that He willingly took upon Himself is our way to freedom from that curse. What a saviour, Jesus Christ…
Jesus wins BECAUSE HE WAS SHAMED DYING THE DEATH OF ONE CURSED ON THE CROSS! He receives blessing and honor, wisdom, wealth, glory, praise and strength now and forevermore!
Rev 5
“You are worthy to take the scrolland to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”
11Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12In a loud voice they were saying:
“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power
Quote Jesus asked the cup to be taken from him and we believe it was taken from him as Jesus suggested it would be. Then you do not believe in the Bible or the gospel message, fyi.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 18 2013,15:36) Without that sacrifice that Jesus made we have no salvation. Because of His death on the cross our sins are paid for and the church has been redeemed. The curse that He willingly took upon Himself is our way to freedom from that curse. What a saviour, Jesus Christ… Jesus wins BECAUSE HE WAS SHAMED DYING THE DEATH OF ONE CURSED ON THE CROSS! He receives blessing and honor, wisdom, wealth, glory, praise and strength now and forevermore!
Rev 5
“You are worthy to take the scrolland to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”
11Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12In a loud voice they were saying:
“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power
Quote Jesus asked the cup to be taken from him and we believe it was taken from him as Jesus suggested it would be. Then you do not believe in the Bible or the gospel message, fyi.
I believe what Jesus said:Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.This is what you do everyday calling Jesus a Curse
May God Forgive you.
Bo,
you have completely taken something said in one context and use it to manipulate guilt on me in a completely different context. This is something the Pharisees were doing also.you said:
Quote
Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.You ought to read about what the LORD thinks about Jesus and His sacrifice.
Isaiah 53
6We all, like sheep, have gone astray,each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11After he has suffered,
he will see the light of lifed and be satisfiede ;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,g
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,h
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 19 2013,14:26) Bo,
you have completely taken something said in one context and use it to manipulate guilt on me in a completely different context. This is something the Pharisees were doing also.you said:
Quote
Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.You ought to read about what the LORD thinks about Jesus and His sacrifice.
Isaiah 53
6We all, like sheep, have gone astray,each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11After he has suffered,
he will see the light of lifed and be satisfiede ;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,g
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,h
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
If that was about Jesus how is it you do not see:Quote 10Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
Prolong his days does not mean end his days.
Quote 11After he has suffered, he will see the light of lifed and be satisfiede ;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
After he has suffered does not mean afte he has died and risen from death
Bo,
Quote If that was about Jesus how is it you do not see: His offspring are those He gives eternal life to, His church.
Quote Prolong his days does not mean end his days. His days did not end…He lives now and forevermore.
Quote After he has suffered does not mean after he has died and risen from death Sure it does!
Gal 3:13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 23 2013,15:55) Bo, Quote If that was about Jesus how is it you do not see: His offspring are those He gives eternal life to, His church.
Quote Prolong his days does not mean end his days. His days did not end…He lives now and forevermore.
Quote After he has suffered does not mean after he has died and risen from death Sure it does!
Gal 3:13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Deuteronomy 21:23“Cursed is Anyone Hung on a Tree”
22And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and you hang him on a tree: 23His body shall not remain all night on the tree, but you shall in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that your land be not defiled, which the LORD your God gives you for an inheritance.
What sin did Jesus do worthy of death? This also states God's curse is on that man who commited a SIN worthy of DEATH
Did Jesus commit such a sin? What does Jesus say?
Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.So once again why is he proclaiming his innocence and you making him accursed?
In Islam it would be blasphemous to call th Messiah “cursed” or any other prophet “cursed”. No, Jesus asked to be saved and God delivered him although they thought the killed Messiah, Christ Jesus he was Raised up to Allah alive.
Seeing they did not perceive and hearing they di not understand.
Matthew 6:3 NIV
But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doingJesus did not do any sin. He was accused falsely of blasphemy which was part of the plan of God. His death fulfilled prophecy and paid the price to redeem the church. If you don't believe Jesus died and that by His blood we are healed, then you do not believe the Bible and the gospel of Jesus Christ. You deny Him the very purpose for which He came.
If Jesus truly wanted to be saved from the cross, He could have had myriads of angels come to His aid to deliver Him, but He didn't.
Matt 26:47While he was still speaking, Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a great crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, “The one I will kiss is the man; seize him.” 49And he came up to Jesus at once and said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” And he kissed him. 50Jesus said to him, “Friend, do what you came to do.”f Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. 51And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servantg of the high priest and cut off his ear. 52Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?” 55At that hour Jesus said to the crowds, “Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs to capture me? Day after day I sat in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me. 56But all this has taken place that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples left him and fled.
Think about it Bo, if satan didn't want the message of the gospel of Christ to include His death and resurrection, which btw was the very act that defeated satan, then he would have a religion that teaches that He did not die.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 25 2013,09:14) Jesus did not do any sin. He was accused falsely of blasphemy which was part of the plan of God. His death fulfilled prophecy and paid the price to redeem the church. If you don't believe Jesus died and that by His blood we are healed, then you do not believe the Bible and the gospel of Jesus Christ. You deny Him the very purpose for which He came. If Jesus truly wanted to be saved from the cross, He could have had myriads of angels come to His aid to deliver Him, but He didn't.
Matt 26:47While he was still speaking, Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a great crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, “The one I will kiss is the man; seize him.” 49And he came up to Jesus at once and said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” And he kissed him. 50Jesus said to him, “Friend, do what you came to do.”f Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. 51And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servantg of the high priest and cut off his ear. 52Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?” 55At that hour Jesus said to the crowds, “Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs to capture me? Day after day I sat in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me. 56But all this has taken place that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples left him and fled.
Think about it Bo, if satan didn't want the message of the gospel of Christ to include His death and resurrection, which btw was the very act that defeated satan, then he would have a religion that teaches that He did not die.
You sa Satan has been defeated if that were the case how is it the scripture says:1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:So the truth is Satan is still very much active and leading many to misery in this life and hell in th next.
Actually if Jesus truly wanted to be saved from th cross he would have got on his knees and prayed and ask that “This cup be taken from me” That is what he did
Look at this scripture:
Jonah 1:14
Therefore they cried out to the Lord and said, “We pray, O Lord, please do not let us perish for this man’s life, and do not charge us with innocent blood; for You, O Lord, have done as it pleased You.”“Innocent Blood” but I ask you was Jonah dead any of those 3 days and 3 nights? (God gave that to me to ask you)
Bo,
Quote You say Satan has been defeated if that were the case how is it the scripture says: 1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:So the truth is Satan is still very much active and leading many to misery in this life and hell in the next.
Because Jesus laid down His life we can have victory over the devil, we pass from death to life.
Satan is disarmed but is not locked up yet. The cross disarmed him. We still need to put on the armor to stand against him. Someday he won't be allowed to seek whom he may devour because he will be locked up and eventually caste into the lake of fire for eternal destruction.
1 John 3:8
8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.Col 2
1For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face, 2that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God’s mystery, which is Christ, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4I say this in order that no one may delude you with plausible arguments. 5For though I am absent in body, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.
Alive in Christ6Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spiritsa of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
Rev 20:10
10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.Quote Jonah 1:14
Therefore they cried out to the Lord and said, “We pray, O Lord, please do not let us perish for this man’s life, and do not charge us with innocent blood; for You, O Lord, have done as it pleased You.”“Innocent Blood” but I ask you was Jonah dead any of those 3 days and 3 nights? (God gave that to me to ask you)
Was Johah innocent? He did disobey God, didn't he? Was he dead, well, I have heard that he died and was brought to life and also that he was not dead. We aren't told. Jesus compares how long He will be in the earth to the length of time that Jonah was in the belly of the whale. The length of time is the only comparison between Jesus and Jonah.
Bo, many innocent people die, even daily. Think about the children in the school massacres. Think about the disciples death and the martyrs.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 26 2013,06:08) Bo, Quote You say Satan has been defeated if that were the case how is it the scripture says: 1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:So the truth is Satan is still very much active and leading many to misery in this life and hell in the next.
Because Jesus laid down His life we can have victory over the devil, we pass from death to life.
Satan is disarmed but is not locked up yet. The cross disarmed him. We still need to put on the armor to stand against him. Someday he won't be allowed to seek whom he may devour because he will be locked up and eventually caste into the lake of fire for eternal destruction.
1 John 3:8
8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.Col 2
1For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face, 2that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God’s mystery, which is Christ, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4I say this in order that no one may delude you with plausible arguments. 5For though I am absent in body, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.
Alive in Christ6Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spiritsa of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
Rev 20:10
10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.Quote Jonah 1:14
Therefore they cried out to the Lord and said, “We pray, O Lord, please do not let us perish for this man’s life, and do not charge us with innocent blood; for You, O Lord, have done as it pleased You.”“Innocent Blood” but I ask you was Jonah dead any of those 3 days and 3 nights? (God gave that to me to ask you)
Was Johah innocent? He did disobey God, didn't he? Was he dead, well, I have heard that he died and was brought to life and also that he was not dead. We aren't told. Jesus compares how long He will be in the earth to the length of time that Jonah was in the belly of the whale. The length of time is the only comparison between Jesus and Jonah.
Bo, many innocent people die, even daily. Think about the children in the school massacres. Think about the disciples death and the martyrs.
No Jesus said as Jonah was and Jonah was never dead nor if you are just comparing time was Jesus missing for 3 days and 3 nights.I told you before your belief is fine and acceptable because it is out of faith and devotion to God and self preservation that you will not see or hear what I am saying and that is 100% okay.
If you just want to win the debate then you win, stay strong in what you already have but I certainly am not lying to you or trying to mislead you. So you can have this debate write now, close it and we are still very much friends, okay?
Bo,
This is a discussion not a debate. Ideally we would come to an agreement on what is true and that would be a win-win for both of us. I don't think of you as trying to mislead me, don't worry about that. I think you have sincere questions and I am happy to answer them with scripture, give you my understanding, and show you a perspective that maybe you haven't thought about before. I truly care about you and your relationship with the LORD. If you want to be done for now, that is fine. I still may post things that you might be interested in if you ever decide to look. I am perfectly content to continue discussing things with you if you desire. I enjoy your questions and your friendship. You are very respectful now that it is just you and I here in this discussion, and I like that very much about you.
Let's look at Jonah…
Matt 12
38Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” 39But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.Bo, this is just talking about a time period, that is all. The time period is what is similar.
Was Jesus missing for 3 days and 3 nights you ask. Well, yes, I believe He was. Some say that He died on a Thursday with Friday being the First Day of Unleavened Bread and a sabbath but not a seventh day sabbath. It was a sabbath because it was the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. There are differing opinions about what day Jesus died. A part of a day is counted as one day.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 26 2013,16:59) Let's look at Jonah… Matt 12
38Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” 39But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.Bo, this is just talking about a time period, that is all. The time period is what is similar.
Was Jesus missing for 3 days and 3 nights you ask. Well, yes, I believe He was. Some say that He died on a Thursday with Friday being the First Day of Unleavened Bread and a sabbath but not a seventh day sabbath. It was a sabbath because it was the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. There are differing opinions about what day Jesus died. A part of a day is counted as one day.
Okay
But if I make a point an you honestly see it as true will you please acknowledge it and I will do thesame that way we can be held accountable in the discussion to what we agree on and get somewhere.Now, 3 Days and 3 Nights if that statement is about time then here is the problem:
Matthew 20:19
and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.”Would you agree that if he rose on the third day that it would be impossible to count it as 3 days and 3 nights?
So which is true? Rise on the third day or rise after 3 days and 3 nights?
Bo,
Agreed, if you make a point that I believe is true and there is not another explanation for it, I will acknowledge it.If He died on a Thursday at 3 pm and was in the tomb before sundown, that is:
day one.
Friday evening begins at sundown on what we call Thursday night, that is:
night one.
Friday day is:
day two.
Saturday evening which is what we call Friday night, that is:
night two.
Saturday day is:
day three.
Sunday evening which is what we call Saturday night, that is:
night three.Since the women find the tomb empty just before dawn, then He is not in the tomb during the day of Sunday…the first day of the week. So that is how three days and three nights can be reckoned.
Now, do you see how it is possible for Jesus to say that He rose on the third day and include three nights?
Quote (Lightenup @ June 27 2013,05:15) Bo,
Agreed, if you make a point that I believe is true and there is not another explanation for it, I will acknowledge it.If He died on a Thursday at 3 pm and was in the tomb before sundown, that is:
day one.
Friday evening begins at sundown on what we call Thursday night, that is:
night one.
Friday day is:
day two.
Saturday evening which is what we call Friday night, that is:
night two.
Saturday day is:
day three.
Sunday evening which is what we call Saturday night, that is:
night three.Since the women find the tomb empty just before dawn, then He is not in the tomb during the day of Sunday…the first day of the week. So that is how three days and three nights can be reckoned.
Now, do you see how it is possible for Jesus to say that He rose on the third day and include three nights?
You must have not rea my previous post.You have “day one” Night one” “day two” “night two” “Day three” “night three”
You said Saturday was “day three”
You sad Saurday night was “night three”But the you called sunday night saurday night
You said he was not in the tomb “sunday” the first day of the week, right?You said Saturday was the third day “Day three” was Jesus risen then?
You did say sunday evening which we call Saturday Night i night 3 so did he rise after night 3?Bo,
From what I can tell, Jesus rose sometime before dawn on Sunday morning, the first day of the week. When Jesus said three days and three nights, a day was the part of the 24 hour period from dawn to sunset and night was from sunset to dawn. When it was said that He will rise on the third day, that was a day that went from sunset to sunset the next day. That word can mean both either period from sunrise to sunset or a general 24 hour period.I know it can be confusing to call our Thursday night as Friday night but that is how the Jews thought. The sunset began a new day. In Genesis 1 days were said to be “and there was evening and there was morning, the first day.”
Jesus died at 3 pm, from what I can tell on a Thursday.
From 3pm on Thursday to 3pm on Friday was a 24 hour period or day one.
From 3 pm on a Friday to 3 pm on a Saturday was another 24 hour period or day two,
From 3 pm on a Saturday to 3 pm on a Sunday was another 24 hour period or day three. It was during that 3rd 24 hour period that He rose, just like He said.So, in my last post I showed you that He was in the tomb for 3 days (sunrise to sunset) and 3 nights (sunset to sunrise). In this post, I didn't change when He died or when He rose, I just showed you 3-24 hour periods as the meaning of 'days.'
Understand? Both are correct…He was in the tomb for three days and three nights and He rose on the third day.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 28 2013,05:32) Bo,
From what I can tell, Jesus rose sometime before dawn on Sunday morning, the first day of the week. When Jesus said three days and three nights, a day was the part of the 24 hour period from dawn to sunset and night was from sunset to dawn. When it was said that He will rise on the third day, that was a day that went from sunset to sunset the next day. That word can mean both either period from sunrise to sunset or a general 24 hour period.I know it can be confusing to call our Thursday night as Friday night but that is how the Jews thought. The sunset began a new day. In Genesis 1 days were said to be “and there was evening and there was morning, the first day.”
Jesus died at 3 pm, from what I can tell on a Thursday.
From 3pm on Thursday to 3pm on Friday was a 24 hour period or day one.
From 3 pm on a Friday to 3 pm on a Saturday was another 24 hour period or day two,
From 3 pm on a Saturday to 3 pm on a Sunday was another 24 hour period or day three. It was during that 3rd 24 hour period that He rose, just like He said.So, in my last post I showed you that He was in the tomb for 3 days (sunrise to sunset) and 3 nights (sunset to sunrise). In this post, I didn't change when He died or when He rose, I just showed you 3-24 hour periods as the meaning of 'days.'
Understand? Both are correct…He was in the tomb for three days and three nights and He rose on the third day.
So was Jesus in the tomb for 3-24 hour periods?Quote (Lightenup @ June 28 2013,05:32) Quote Bo,
From what I can tell, Jesus rose sometime before dawn on Sunday morning, the first day of the week.Yes, The scripture saysit was still dark
Quote When Jesus said three days and three nights, a day was the part of the 24 hour period from dawn to sunset and night was from sunset to dawn Yes
Quote When it was said that He will rise on the third day, that was a day that went from sunset to sunset the next day. Okay
Quote That word can mean both either period from sunrise to sunset or a general 24 hour period. Yes, the word day can mean either, so he specified 3 days and 3 nights
Quote I know it can be confusing to call our Thursday night as Friday night but that is how the Jews thought. No the Jews don't teach that, The Sabbath fo instance starts Friday evening(sunset) and ends Saturday evening(sunset)
Quote The sunset began a new day. In Genesis 1 days were said to be “and there was evening and there was morning, the first day.” Yes
Quote Jesus died at 3 pm, from what I can tell on a Thursday.
From 3pm on Thursday to 3pm on Friday was a 24 hour period or day one.Okay, one day and one night i.e. ONE ENTIRE DAY
Quote From 3 pm on a Friday to 3 pm on a Saturday was another 24 hour period or day two, Okay, second day and second night i.e. TWO ENTIRE DAYS
Quote From 3 pm on a Saturday to 3 pm on a Sunday was another 24 hour period or day three. Okay, Third day and Third night i.e. THREE ENTIRE DAYS
Quote It was during that 3rd 24 hour period that He rose, just like He said. during and after mean to different things right? If you are in the tomb THREE ENTIRE DAYS you can't be out of the tomb during the time you are in it, right?
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