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Quote (Lightenup @ May 11 2013,16:42) That is correct but Jesus tells us in Revelations that He was both the Root and Offspring of David.
So you believe he is the offspring of David?Yes, Jesus is an 'offspring of David' as a descendant. David is a Great, Great, Great…Grandfather of Jesus.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 13 2013,16:18) Yes, Jesus is an 'offspring of David' as a descendant. David is a Great, Great, Great…Grandfather of Jesus.
Why does Jess disagree that heis the Son of David? The scriptures do call him the son of David, is he the son of David?Is David his Father?
Hi Bo,
Where does Jesus “DISAGREE” that He is the Son of David? I believe you are confused about this.Quote (Lightenup @ May 23 2013,18:29) Hi Bo,
Where does Jesus “DISAGREE” that He is the Son of David? I believe you are confused about this.
Mark 12:35-38New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
The Question about David’s Son
35 While Jesus was teaching in the temple, he said, “How can the scribes say that the Messiah[a] is the son of David? 36 David himself, by the Holy Spirit, declared,
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet.”’37 David himself calls him Lord; so how can he be his son?” And the large crowd was listening to him with delight.
Jesus Denounces the Scribes
38 As he taught, he said, “Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces,
Hi Bo,
He is not denying that He is the Son of David, He is just getting the Pharisees to wonder how He can be both the Son of David and the Lord of David. See Gill's comments in this regards:Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And Jesus answered and said,…. To the Pharisees that were gathered together about him; See Gill on Matthew 22:41.
While he taught in the temple; Whilst he was in the temple, and as he was teaching the people there; among other things in his doctrine, he put this question,
how say the Scribes, that Christ is the son of David? Not that Christ meant to deny or invalidate the truth of this; for the Messiah was certainly to be the son of David, and was; but he wanted to know, inasmuch as they commonly said, and instructed the people to believe, and it was in general believed by them, that he was David's son, how they could reconcile this to his being the Lord of David: or how they could give out, that he was only and merely the Son of David, when he was David's Lord. Matthew relates the matter thus; that Christ first put these questions to them, what they thought of the Messiah, and whose son he was; and that they immediately replied, he was the son of David: wherefore this question seems to be put upon that, with another along with it,
how then doth David in spirit call him Lord?
Quote (Lightenup @ May 24 2013,12:39) Hi Bo,
He is not denying that He is the Son of David, He is just getting the Pharisees to wonder how He can be both the Son of David and the Lord of David. See Gill's comments in this regards:Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And Jesus answered and said,…. To the Pharisees that were gathered together about him; See Gill on Matthew 22:41.
While he taught in the temple; Whilst he was in the temple, and as he was teaching the people there; among other things in his doctrine, he put this question,
how say the Scribes, that Christ is the son of David? Not that Christ meant to deny or invalidate the truth of this; for the Messiah was certainly to be the son of David, and was; but he wanted to know, inasmuch as they commonly said, and instructed the people to believe, and it was in general believed by them, that he was David's son, how they could reconcile this to his being the Lord of David: or how they could give out, that he was only and merely the Son of David, when he was David's Lord. Matthew relates the matter thus; that Christ first put these questions to them, what they thought of the Messiah, and whose son he was; and that they immediately replied, he was the son of David: wherefore this question seems to be put upon that, with another along with it,
how then doth David in spirit call him Lord?
Nice try, But the scriptures when wanting to explain Christ challenging someone plainly says so in scripture. The scripture is not open to special interpretation:2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.But if you say that Jesus is the son of David is David then the Son of God?
Bo,
you said:Quote But if you say that Jesus is the son of David is David then the Son of God? Jesus is the Son of David according to His flesh which He received through the conception in Mary. Jesus was the eternal Son of God according to the Spirit long before He became also the Son of David. David and all created beings are also sons of God but not in the same sense of a son who is truly begotten from within the eternal Father. David is also declared to be God's firstborn but David wasn't begotten as God the Father's Firstborn like the only begotten Son was. Jesus was eternally the Son of God long before David came along. In fact, scripture says that the Son of God is the root of David because all things were created through Him.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 24 2013,14:59) Bo,
you said:Quote But if you say that Jesus is the son of David is David then the Son of God? Jesus is the Son of David according to His flesh which He received through the conception in Mary. Jesus was the eternal Son of God according to the Spirit long before He became also the Son of David. David and all created beings are also sons of God but not in the same sense of a son who is truly begotten from within the eternal Father. David is also declared to be God's firstborn but David wasn't begotten as God the Father's Firstborn like the only begotten Son was. Jesus was eternally the Son of God long before David came along. In fact, scripture says that the Son of God is the root of David because all things were created through Him.
So you say th Bible saysthat David is the Firstborn but you then say but in a different sense. let me ask you this, which do you believe below:Proverbs 26:4
New International Version (NIV)
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like himor
Proverbs 26:5
New International Version (NIV)
5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.Which of the two is correct?
Hi Bo,
From first appearance those two seem to contradict each other. I think the NASB has a clearer translation:
Prov 264Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Or you will also be like him.5Answer a fool as his folly deserves,
That he not be wise in his own eyes.I believe the message is to shut the fool up by speaking words of wisdom that destroys his foolishness, don't respond in a manner like him…use wisdom, not more foolishness. Hopefully that would help him rethink his foolish position.
Good question!
Quote (Lightenup @ May 27 2013,16:15) Hi Bo,
From first appearance those two seem to contradict each other. I think the NASB has a clearer translation:
Prov 264Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Or you will also be like him.5Answer a fool as his folly deserves,
That he not be wise in his own eyes.I believe the message is to shut the fool up by speaking words of wisdom that destroys his foolishness, don't respond in a manner like him…use wisdom, not more foolishness. Hopefully that would help him rethink his foolish position.
Good question!
If you answer a fool as his folly deserves it would be according to his own folly because the fool is wise in his own eyes. So do you answer a fool or not?They do contradict each other but again
The book of John says that Jesus says:
John 12:27
“Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour.But Matthew says Jesus says:
Matthew 26:39
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”Which is true? Did he asked to be saved or not?
Bo,
Quote If you answer a fool as his folly deserves it would be according to his own folly because the fool is wise in his own eyes. So do you answer a fool or not? Sometimes I don't answer a fool and sometimes I do with the intent to get them to realize they are NOT wise in their own eyes so they may be humbled and hopefully be open to learning the truth.
Regarding the question about Jesus and His prayer, both writers are showing that Jesus does ultimately want to finish what He came for and do the Father's will but at the same time He is struggling with all the horrible things He is about to face in order to do so. Both are true. Jesus is wrestling with his emotions as He is about to face great torture. Ultimately He chooses to face it because of the will of the Father.
I see this event as being very, very hard for Jesus to face and we need to appreciate it all the more that He did face it and He faced it courageously when the soldiers finally came and arrested Him, then tortured Him.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 29 2013,15:49) Bo, Quote If you answer a fool as his folly deserves it would be according to his own folly because the fool is wise in his own eyes. So do you answer a fool or not? Sometimes I don't answer a fool and sometimes I do with the intent to get them to realize they are NOT wise in their own eyes so they may be humbled and hopefully be open to learning the truth.
Regarding the question about Jesus and His prayer, both writers are showing that Jesus does ultimately want to finish what He came for and do the Father's will but at the same time He is struggling with all the horrible things He is about to face in order to do so. Both are true. Jesus is wrestling with his emotions as He is about to face great torture. Ultimately He chooses to face it because of the will of the Father.
I see this event as being very, very hard for Jesus to face and we need to appreciate it all the more that He did face it and He faced it courageously when the soldiers finally came and arrested Him, then tortured Him.
Which is true? Did he asked to be saved or not?Quote (Lightenup @ May 31 2013,04:49) Bo, ultimately, He did not ask to be saved from His Father's will.
Did he say it was not “his will”?He said:
Luke 22:42
New International Version (NIV)
42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
So again did he asked to be saved regarding his own will?
He is just clarifying whose will He is allowing to ultimately lead Him.
John 6:38
“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.He is not saying that He does not will to save those who are His own. Jesus' will IS to save them and that is clear in the NT.
See John 17 to know just some of what Jesus' will is:
. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.13“I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
Jesus Prays for All Believers
20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”
Quote (Lightenup @ June 11 2013,04:33) He is just clarifying whose will He is allowing to ultimately lead Him. John 6:38
“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.He is not saying that He does not will to save those who are His own. Jesus' will IS to save them and that is clear in the NT.
See John 17 to know just some of what Jesus' will is:
. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.13“I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
Jesus Prays for All Believers
20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”
So you agree that Jesus doesn't want to save everyone right?Still you haven't admitted that Jesus asked to be saved did or did not Jesus ask that “this cup be taken from me” 3 times?
Wanting to save your own is natural but you preach thi was a plan to save the world and that Jesus knew this plan and was a willing sacrifice. This is false
Quote
So you agree that Jesus doesn't want to save everyone right?
He came to save both the Jew and the Gentile, not just the Jew and not just His disciples.
His sacrifice was a willing sacrifice, I don't know why you think otherwise. Jesus did know the plan. Jesus foretold His death and resurrection. This plan was brought forth before creation.Mark 10:
Jesus Foretells His Death a Third Time32And they were on the road, going up to Jerusalem, and Jesus was walking ahead of them. And they were amazed, and those who followed were afraid. And taking the twelve again, he began to tell them what was to happen to him, 33saying, “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death and deliver him over to the Gentiles. 34And they will mock him and spit on him, and flog him and kill him. And after three days he will rise.”
Quote (Lightenup @ June 11 2013,10:54) Quote
So you agree that Jesus doesn't want to save everyone right?
He came to save both the Jew and the Gentile, not just the Jew and not just His disciples.
His sacrifice was a willing sacrifice, I don't know why you think otherwise. Jesus did know the plan. Jesus foretold His death and resurrection. This plan was brought forth before creation.Mark 10:
Jesus Foretells His Death a Third Time32And they were on the road, going up to Jerusalem, and Jesus was walking ahead of them. And they were amazed, and those who followed were afraid. And taking the twelve again, he began to tell them what was to happen to him, 33saying, “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death and deliver him over to the Gentiles. 34And they will mock him and spit on him, and flog him and kill him. And after three days he will rise.”
Knowing what would happen to him doesn't iclude his approval, do you not recall he considered the act of Judas as betrayal?Plus he said he had only come to the lost sheep of Israel an to not go to th gentiles, is that correct?
Matthew 10:5-7
New International Version (NIV)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’
Matthew 15:24
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”Is Matthew 15:24 correct?
and again did he ask that “this cup be taken from me”?
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