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Hi WJ,
You love rolling in the mud of confusion.
Why are you so desperate to build any such a platform for your trinity theory?If you knew God and His son you would not be so distracted.
No reward for leading others away from simplicity is offered by God.
Come out of her lest you suffer for her sins.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 31 2010,18:27) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,04:56) Hi thinker, and WJ: Jesus told us who was “his” God as well as “ours”. Don't you believe him?
Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “
I am not trying to bail Nick but you out.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThe scriptures call Jesus God, do you believe this?
Interesting, the scripture you quote, for in the same chapter Jesus didn't correct Thomas and give him the same information but instead blessed him when…
Thomas *said unto him*, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28, 29
Notice the Narrator John the witness says clearly “Thomas *said unto him*“, there is no wiggle room for any other interpretation.
You can say there is but that would only be inference the very thing that Trinitarians are accused of!
John also is the one that wrote John 1:1 clearly showing Jesus the Word that was with God is God!
You do not have to believe it, but you have no proof that what I say is not true.
The scriptures call Jesus God, and if he is not God then it would be Idolatry, or blasphemy to do so.
If he is “a god” in any sense and not the “True God” (1 John 5:20) then according to the Mosaic Law that would be Idolatry!
Tell me Marty if I call Jesus “my Lord and my God”, am I breaking the scriptures?
Blessings WJ
Hi Brother:Isn't the following scripture plain to you? It is to me. Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God. The is only “One God”.
Quote Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ Jesus is the express image of God's person. God made man in His onw image, and Jesus is the last Adam. The first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam is like God in that he is also a spirit of love. He is God in this sense. We have seen God through the works of obedience that he did to His God and our God and His Father and our Father.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 01 2010,07:42) Hi WJ,
You love rolling in the mud of confusion.
Why are you so desperate to build any such a platform for your trinity theory?If you knew God and His son you would not be so distracted.
No reward for leading others away from simplicity is offered by God.
Come out of her lest you suffer for her sins.
Nick,
It is you who is rolling in the mud of confusion. You consistently asserted that the trems “Lord' and “God” are not equal terms. Then when I pointed out that Christ became our “only Master and Lord” you replied saying, “You have suggested that Jesus became God.”Are you not equating the two terms? WJ says that Jesus is our “Lord” and you accuse him of rolling in the mud of confusion. It has been shown that anti-trinitarians really deny Christ's Lordship to their own destruction.
thinker
Hi TT,
So do tell us how the words are interchangeable in 1Cor 8.
Or should we just trust your insights?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 02 2010,05:14) Hi TT,
So do tell us how the words are interchangeable in 1Cor 8.
Or should we just trust your insights?
Nick,What does it matter? Jesus Christ is YOUR “only Master and Lord.”
Yet you cannot confess Him as such to the Father's glory. Why?
thinker
Hello All.
Why are you guys getting so confused over simple issues. Jesus is NOT our ONLY Lord and Saviour.
The Lordship and the Saving are both by means of God's Holy Spirit.
Jesus has been enpowered by the Holy Spirit to carry out the task that has been assigned to him.
Everything perculates upwards back to God because it is HIS Holy Spirit.
Jesus is Lord because he has the Holy Spirit
Jesus is Saviour because he has the Holy SpiritGod is Lord because it is His Holy Spirit
God is Saviour because it is His Holy SpiritContextually, we refer to Jesus as ['The' or 'Our'] Lord and Saviour because he is the focus concerning the issued being discussed.
How many analogies can be given to illustrate this: A very dangerous, arduous, delicate, … rescue attempt is required to be made.
The Supreme Expert cannot [for good reason] be the one to carry it out, so another – one who has already proved himself capable a hero) is trained by the expert to the highest degree and empowered with all knowledge required (Note: 'ALL' does not mean the SUM Total of God's knowledge but 'aLL THAT IS REQUIRED')
With the empowering knowledge, skill, dynamics, directions, etc (The SPIRIT(s) of the Expert) that hero carries out the rescue perfectly and is rightfully praised, glorified, honored, given wealth, power and a seat next to the Expert.
Whilst the Hero is carrying out the rescue he is hailed as Lord, Saviour the rescuer of those to whom the rescue is targetted
That hero is satisfied with the occolade and never for amoment thinks: I am equal to him who taught me, him who guided me, directed, supported, encouraged, and gave me of himself to enable me to carry out this noble act. He is My God! and I am proud to be seated next to My God.
Those whom were rescued because they listened and were themselves empowered, guided, supported, directed and encouraged by the hero rightly recognise his status but above all that it was by MEANS of the Spirit of the Expert working through the Hero that their salvation came and rightly call the expert God, because without HIM, the hero could not have performed as he did – by himself teh Hero could not have prevailed – and for this reason, again, the hero does not sek to usrp the Worship tightly directed towards the Expert.
How can the Hero say “I did it by myself” I deserve the Worship of those whom 'I' rescued…(Remind you of anybody?)
Ja
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 01 2010,14:55) Jesus is Lord because he has the Holy Spirit
Jesus is Saviour because he has the Holy SpiritGod is Lord because it is His Holy Spirit
God is Saviour because it is His Holy Spirit
Really? Does that mean that we are Lords and Savours because we have the Holy Spirit?Blessings WJ
To all,
I am amazed that ones like WJ …and TT can engage in tit-for-tat petty arguements over the defniton of the titles “LORD”, “Lord” and 'lord'.
Same of others here too. Nick, for instance.
What is it that you guys can't settle on – Give a definition and stick to it – it is not hard to work out.
Don't faff around trying to redefine the terms for your own benefit, it can't work – you will come unstuckk somewhere down the line (usally sooner than you think).'LORD' is a title used as a substitute for the name of God because noone wanted to say it and f your write 'YHWH' how do you read it out loud (..and not offend God with your mispronounciation!?)
'Lord' is a more general term/title meaning 'Powerful one', 'one in high authority', “The greater amongst the many”, “a King” and such like.
'lord' is a lesser title for common usage generally meaning 'the head' (e.g. Of a family, School, a master in an art) or it can be used as part of a sentence denoting betterage ('He lorded over the his companions in the foot race')
It seems that many in the forums are just looking to argue than to be seeking knowledge of God – and you know who you are?
Concede on a point if you can't come up with positive, valid, points. How do you feel when you do this – do you believe that you are scoring points ecause of your cleverness in deception – To me you are fools – you are like a little children who thinks he is hiding something behind his back and says to his mother: “Bet you can't guess what I've got behind me?”, The mother can see plainly what it is but the child thinks he has been clever , not realising that th esubject of his game is plainly exposed.
Now when the mother (unwisely for a real child…) tells him that she can see what he has, the child denies it outright and tries to talk his way out of the revelation by claining that the object is something else and therefore the mother is wrong and he WINS!!!.Who is the Foolish one – speak gently to these foolish ones, they have much to learn and fear the truth for the sake of believing their own lies.
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 31 2010,18:27) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,04:56) Hi thinker, and WJ: Jesus told us who was “his” God as well as “ours”. Don't you believe him?
Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “
I am not trying to bail Nick but you out.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThe scriptures call Jesus God, do you believe this?
Interesting, the scripture you quote, for in the same chapter Jesus didn't correct Thomas and give him the same information but instead blessed him when…
Thomas *said unto him*, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28, 29
Notice the Narrator John the witness says clearly “Thomas *said unto him*“, there is no wiggle room for any other interpretation.
You can say there is but that would only be inference the very thing that Trinitarians are accused of!
John also is the one that wrote John 1:1 clearly showing Jesus the Word that was with God is God!
You do not have to believe it, but you have no proof that what I say is not true.
The scriptures call Jesus God, and if he is not God then it would be Idolatry, or blasphemy to do so.
If he is “a god” in any sense and not the “True God” (1 John 5:20) then according to the Mosaic Law that would be Idolatry!
Tell me Marty if I call Jesus “my Lord and my God”, am I breaking the scriptures?
Blessings WJ
Hi Brother:Isn't the following scripture plain to you? It is to me. Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God. The is only “One God”.
Quote Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ Jesus is the express image of God's person. God made man in His onw image, and Jesus is the last Adam. The first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam is like God in that he is also a spirit of love. He is God in this sense. We have seen God through the works of obedience that he did to His God and our God and His Father and our Father.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyYes it is plain to me that because of Jesus manhood he has a God.
But that does not at all answer the points that I make does it?
You say…
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) He is God in this sense.
There is no such teaching in scriptures. He is either God or he is not at all!To say that anything or any one is a god to you in any sense would be Idolatry unless he is the “True God”. John 20:28, Heb 1:8, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Jude 1:4, 4.
Blessings WJ
WJ,
I expect better from you – I may not agree with your Trinity thing but base comebacks should be beneath you.
Are we infants here. Jesus has the FULL POWER of the holy Spirit. We have only limited amounts and even then sometimes only only a single part of the seven parts of the Spirit.
Further, the Spirit is not ours to Command – Jesus has full command of the Holy Spirit.
Hi WJ,
You would not have to worry about idolatry if you joined with the Lord Jesus and served the God of Israel.The branches in the vine serve the Gardener.
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 01 2010,15:27) To all,
I am amazed that ones like WJ …and TT can engage in tit-for-tat petty arguements over the defniton of the titles “LORD”, “Lord” and 'lord'.
JaCapitalizations are not in the original Hebrew and Greek!
What does the term “One Master and Lord” mean to you? Jude 4, 5
Does it mean that you have a LORD and a Lord?
Even if there are so-called Lords or gods, (1 Cor 8:4-6 NIV) Jesus is the LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS, a title given to God only!
These shall make war with the Lamb, and “THE LAMB SHALL OVERCOME THEM: **FOR HE IS LORD OF LORDS, AND KING OF KINGS**”: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful. Rev 17:14
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS”. Rev 19:16
Notice they are in all caps!
Blessings WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 01 2010,15:34) WJ, I expect better from you – I may not agree with your Trinity thing but base comebacks should be beneath you.
Are we infants here. Jesus has the FULL POWER of the holy Spirit. We have only limited amounts and even then sometimes only only a single part of the seven parts of the Spirit.
Further, the Spirit is not ours to Command – Jesus has full command of the Holy Spirit.
JaWhat are you talking about? Was my question not a legitimate one!
Are we Lords and Savours because we have Gods Holy Spirit?
Blessings WJ
WJ wrote:”Thomas *said unto him*, My Lord and my God.”.
How can you cling to this as “Proof” that Jesus is God.
Do you take Thomas (the doubter) as an an official authority on Christ. Is your 'proof' based on 'ANYTHING' that has the word 'God' in it ('My God said to his God…' how many gods)?
Is it not curious that “The Gospel of St Thomas” has been loudly proclaimed as Not Scriptural!
Is it not curious that none of the other disciples echoed Thomas' astonished outcry?
Is it not curious that Peter, asked explicitly by Jesus, who he thought Jesus was 'only' replied “You are the Christ”?
Is it not curious that no other disciple, apostle, Jew, Gentile, Samarian, women in the order, John the Baptist, Sanhedren,
Saduccee, pharasee or ANYone else, come to think of it, called him God – but “the Son of God” – he himself called himself, not the “Son of God” but “The Son of Man”.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,07:46) Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 01 2010,15:34) WJ, I expect better from you – I may not agree with your Trinity thing but base comebacks should be beneath you.
Are we infants here. Jesus has the FULL POWER of the holy Spirit. We have only limited amounts and even then sometimes only only a single part of the seven parts of the Spirit.
Further, the Spirit is not ours to Command – Jesus has full command of the Holy Spirit.
JaWhat are you talking about? Was my question not a legitimate one!
Are we Lords and Savours because we have Gods Holy Spirit?
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,
The toe or the finger can never be the head.The head controls the body and our only usefulness is in submission to the Lord Jesus.
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