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TO ALL:
Today on the “Arain dissenter's” thread I said that Christ became the “only Master and Lord.”
I said:
Quote Jesus Christ was exalted to God's right hand and in that position He enjoys the title “only Master and Lord” of men (Jude vs. 4-5). Nick replied:
Quote You have just suggested he BECAME GOD. Then I said:
Quote Aahhhhhhhhhh! I said that Jesus became the “only Master and Lord.” You say that I suggest that He became God. I thought the terms “Lord” and “God” were not equal terms in your thinking? Anti-trinitarian insincerity is exposed! Many of you including Nick have insisted that the terms “Lord” in reference to Jesus and “God” are not equal terms. Jesus is “Lord” you say but He is not “God.”
Yet Nick says that I suggest that Christ became God when I never used the word “God” in reference to Jesus in that post. I said that Jesus became the “only Master and Lord.” So Nick himself infers that the terms “Lord” and “God” are equal.
Okay, if the term “Lord” in reference to Jesus and the term “God” are not equal terms, then let all of you who deny that Jesus is God PUBLICALLY confess Him as the “only Master and Lord” (Jude vss. 4-5). As many of you who fail to PUBLICALLY confess Jesus as the “only Master and Lord” are by your silence admitting that the term “Lord” in reference to Jesus and the term “God” are equal.
Nicky just dug a deep hole for himself. He must hope that his Arain buddies can dig him out.
thinker
Hi TT,
“There are many gods and many lords” as 1 Cor 8 says but there should be no confusion for US as you seem to be experiencing as “FOR US there is One God the Father, and One Lord Jesus Christ' as the verse explains.Where did you go wrong and leave US?
Do you yet KNOW GOD?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2010,05:14) Hi TT,
“There are many gods and many lords” as 1 Cor 8 says but there should be no confusion for US as you seem to be experiencing as “FOR US there is One God the Father, and One Lord Jesus Christ' as the verse explains.Where did you go wrong and leave US?
Do you yet KNOW GOD?
So Jesus Christ is not the “only Master and Lord?”I'm lovin this Nick. Come on Nicky. If the term “Lord” in reference to Jesus is not equal to the term “God”, then for you to confess Him as the “only Master and Lord” should not be a problem.
But if you do confess that Jesus is the “only Master and Lord”, then you will have to explain why you think that this title suggests that He is God.
Quite a conundrum for you isn't it Nick?
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2010,06:03) Hi TT,
Would you try to turn scripture against itself for the sake of catholic dogmas?
1Cor8
Do you deny that Jesus is the “only Master and Lord?”thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2010,06:16) Hi TT,
If Jesus was your Lord you would be less confused about WHO your God is.
1Cor8
I Jesus your “only Master and Lord?”thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 02 2010,17:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2010,06:16) Hi TT,
If Jesus was your Lord you would be less confused about WHO your God is.
1Cor8
I Jesus your “only Master and Lord?”thinker
Hey JackI am not ashamed of who Jesus is!
Yes according to Jude 1:4, 5 Jesus is my only “Master and Lord” and according to John 20:28 and Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 he is my “Great God and Savour”.
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deut 6:4
No man can say that Jesus is Lord (YHWH) but by the Holy Spirit! 1 Cor 12:3
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 05 2010,09:45) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 02 2010,17:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2010,06:16) Hi TT,
If Jesus was your Lord you would be less confused about WHO your God is.
1Cor8
I Jesus your “only Master and Lord?”thinker
Hey JackI am not ashamed of who Jesus is!
Yes according to Jude 1:4, 5 Jesus is my only “Master and Lord” and according to John 20:28 and Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 he is my “Great God and Savour”.
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deut 6:4
No man can say that Jesus is Lord (YHWH) but by the Holy Spirit! 1 Cor 12:3
WJ
Amen Keith,I know that you are not ashammed to confess Jesus as your Lord. But the many here who claim they have the truth are ashamed. Paul said,
“For if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.”
Jack
thinker…….But wait you believe Jesus raised himself, now your changing it to GOD raised Him, interesting, another flip flop.
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 05 2010,13:06) thinker…….But wait you believe Jesus raised himself, now your changing it to GOD raised Him, interesting, another flip flop.
pok,In the past I have said that Jesus was raised by the triune God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). No “flip flop” as you accuse me.
thinker
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 05 2010,13:06) thinker…….But wait you believe Jesus raised himself, now your changing it to GOD raised Him, interesting, another flip flop.
But wait Gene. I have also said that Jesus was raised by the Father and by the Spirit. You are avoiding that you must confess Him as Lord in order to be saved.thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 05 2010,09:45) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 02 2010,17:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2010,06:16) Hi TT,
If Jesus was your Lord you would be less confused about WHO your God is.
1Cor8
I Jesus your “only Master and Lord?”thinker
Hey JackI am not ashamed of who Jesus is!
Yes according to Jude 1:4, 5 Jesus is my only “Master and Lord” and according to John 20:28 and Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 he is my “Great God and Savour”.
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deut 6:4
No man can say that Jesus is Lord (YHWH) but by the Holy Spirit! 1 Cor 12:3
WJ
The LORD in this Scripture is God the Father. Any time you see LORD written in Capital Letters it is always the Father. Jesus or Lord and King is written this way. I am not denying Jesus His place next to the Father. However Jesus is not the Father and is not equal to the Father. By His own Words. I know thinker wants to believe that He was that way only when He was on earth and not in Heaven. That is not so. No where in the Scriptures does that say anywhere. When you understand that God is a title one has no problems. There are many Gods in Ancient times. Even Satan is called the God of this world. He has deceived many.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (thethinker @ Jan. 02 2010,10:07) TO ALL: Today on the “Arain dissenter's” thread I said that Christ became the “only Master and Lord.”
I said:
Quote Jesus Christ was exalted to God's right hand and in that position He enjoys the title “only Master and Lord” of men (Jude vs. 4-5). Nick replied:
Quote You have just suggested he BECAME GOD. Then I said:
Quote Aahhhhhhhhhh! I said that Jesus became the “only Master and Lord.” You say that I suggest that He became God. I thought the terms “Lord” and “God” were not equal terms in your thinking? Anti-trinitarian insincerity is exposed! Many of you including Nick have insisted that the terms “Lord” in reference to Jesus and “God” are not equal terms. Jesus is “Lord” you say but He is not “God.”
Yet Nick says that I suggest that Christ became God when I never used the word “God” in reference to Jesus in that post. I said that Jesus became the “only Master and Lord.” So Nick himself infers that the terms “Lord” and “God” are equal.
Okay, if the term “Lord” in reference to Jesus and the term “God” are not equal terms, then let all of you who deny that Jesus is God PUBLICALLY confess Him as the “only Master and Lord” (Jude vss. 4-5). As many of you who fail to PUBLICALLY confess Jesus as the “only Master and Lord” are by your silence admitting that the term “Lord” in reference to Jesus and the term “God” are equal.
Nicky just dug a deep hole for himself. He must hope that his Arain buddies can dig him out.
thinker
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our Yahuweh into lasciviousness, and denying the only [despotēs] Yahuweh 'Elohim, and our [kyrios] Lord Yashuw'ah HaMoshiach.Despotēs: Master, Lord.
Relates only to a slave and denotes absolute ownership and uncontrolled power.
Kyrios: [1] He to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord. [2] The possessor and disposer of a thing. [3] The owner; one who has control of the person, the master. [4] In the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor. [5] Is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master. [6] This title [kyriosis] given to: Yahuweh, the Messiah, Angels, Patriarchs, Prophets, Teachers, Masters, Sirs.
Has a wider meaning, applicable to the various ranks and relations of life and not suggestive of either property or of absolutism.
TT your straining at a gnat.
Matthew 23:24
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Jan. 05 2010,00:01) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 02 2010,10:07) TO ALL: Today on the “Arain dissenter's” thread I said that Christ became the “only Master and Lord.”
I said:
Quote Jesus Christ was exalted to God's right hand and in that position He enjoys the title “only Master and Lord” of men (Jude vs. 4-5). Nick replied:
Quote You have just suggested he BECAME GOD. Then I said:
Quote Aahhhhhhhhhh! I said that Jesus became the “only Master and Lord.” You say that I suggest that He became God. I thought the terms “Lord” and “God” were not equal terms in your thinking? Anti-trinitarian insincerity is exposed! Many of you including Nick have insisted that the terms “Lord” in reference to Jesus and “God” are not equal terms. Jesus is “Lord” you say but He is not “God.”
Yet Nick says that I suggest that Christ became God when I never used the word “God” in reference to Jesus in that post. I said that Jesus became the “only Master and Lord.” So Nick himself infers that the terms “Lord” and “God” are equal.
Okay, if the term “Lord” in reference to Jesus and the term “God” are not equal terms, then let all of you who deny that Jesus is God PUBLICALLY confess Him as the “only Master and Lord” (Jude vss. 4-5). As many of you who fail to PUBLICALLY confess Jesus as the “only Master and Lord” are by your silence admitting that the term “Lord” in reference to Jesus and the term “God” are equal.
Nicky just dug a deep hole for himself. He must hope that his Arain buddies can dig him out.
thinker
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our Yahuweh into lasciviousness, and denying the only [despotēs] Yahuweh 'Elohim, and our [kyrios] Lord Yashuw'ah HaMoshiach.Despotēs: Master, Lord.
Relates only to a slave and denotes absolute ownership and uncontrolled power.
Kyrios: [1] He to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord. [2] The possessor and disposer of a thing. [3] The owner; one who has control of the person, the master. [4] In the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor. [5] Is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master. [6] This title [kyriosis] given to: Yahuweh, the Messiah, Angels, Patriarchs, Prophets, Teachers, Masters, Sirs.
Has a wider meaning, applicable to the various ranks and relations of life and not suggestive of either property or of absolutism.
TT your straining at a gnat.
Matthew 23:24
ConNo you guys are straining at a gnat.
For the scriptures says Jesus is our “ONLY” Master and Lord!
You guys play games with the words “Theos”, “despotēs” and “kyrios”!
Do you see the word “ONLY” (kyrios) in Jude 1:4, it means “alone, without a companion”? Therefore Jude 1:5 cannot mean a different Lord than verse 4.
Have you shut your eyes to this truth?
This means that the Arians have a conundrum, for they must swallow a camel and say that the Father is not Master and Lord, or they have to admit that they serve 2 Lords and 2 Masters!
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deut 6:4
Now before you go on about the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, YHWH in Deut 6:4, remember that the LXX translates the Hebrew YHWH into “kyrios” the same Greek word used for Lord in Jude 1:4, 5 which states…
…how that the Lord (kyrios), having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. (Jude 1:5) in speaking of the same Lord (kyrios) in Jude 1:4 which is Jesus!
So how many Masters and Lords do you have or serve?
My Bible says there is only “One Lord” that we serve. (1 Cor 8:6, Eph 4:5, Deut 6:4, Mk 12:29)
Jesus said you cannot serve 2 Masters, whether it be money or anything you make first in your life. The scriptures tell us that Jesus is to be “first” in our lives. Paul said he was a “Bond slave” to Jesus and a Prisoner of Jesus. In the Hebrew world if Jesus was not God, that kind of devotion would be Idolatry and the breaking of the Shema the first commandment (Deut 6:4 Mk 12:29).
Jesus demands that men “lay down their lives” even to the point of death for “HIM”, (Mk 8:34-38) No one but God can make those kind of claims on a mans life!
The Hypocrisy of the Arians is they would not dare say that the Father is not Lord though the Bible says there is “ONLY ONE Lord” and that is Jesus, while at the same time they claim only One God “Theos” and condemn the Trinitarians for claiming Jesus is God also!
Yes they do strain at a gnat and swallow a camel!
WJ
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 03 2010,05:07) Anti-trinitarian insincerity is exposed!
thinker
Hi Thinking man,You are still fighting in a useless battle?
Anti-non-trinitarian insincerity is exposed as well!
God’s Name יהוה is written exactly 6823 times in the Hebrew Masoretic Texts. See how the
Gematria value of Ιησους Χριστоς=2368 Ē-Ā-Soos Chrĭstŏs (Jesus Christ in Greek)
bears a striking resemblance to the number of times God’s Name is used in the Hebrew Masoretic Texts.the wall Jesus died to abolish (Eph.2:14), is illustrate as this dichotomy: [6823] and [2368].
“Trinitarian”? and “non-Trinitarian”!
6823 and 2368“Trinitarian” “non-Trinitarian”
New god=68 † 'i am'=23? 'i am'=23 † NOT JAH=68!
(AKJV Gal.2:20) (AKJV Psalm 68:4-5)This is “Bible Truth”=117.
AKJV Deut.3217 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not,
to (i am) new gods that came newly up (Rev.13:1), whom your fathers feared not.AKJV Rev.13:11 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads (i am) the name of blasphemy.Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he (i am) corrupt by flatteries:
but the people that do know their God (YHVH) shall be strong, and do exploits .'The devil's trick'; 'i am'! (AKJV Psalm 102:11-13)
AKJV Mark 13:6: For many(like thinker) shall come
in my(Christ's) name, saying, I am; and shall deceive many.N.W.T. Romans 7:14: For we know that the law is spiritual:
but I am fleshly, sold under sin.AKJV Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:
but I am carnal, sold under sin.AKJV Romans 8:6: For to be carnally minded is death;
but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.AKJV Psalm 102:11-13 My days are like a shadow that declineth; and I am withered like grass.
But thou, O LORD, shalt endure for ever; and thy remembrance unto all generations.
Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favor her, yea, the set time, is come.PSALM 117 “is” [The Bible's Center], AND the “[smallest chapter]” of the [LARGEST BOOK]!
Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (Luke 18:7-8 / Ecl.9:15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 05 2010,09:45) YHWH?
Hi WJ,YHVH is God's Name transliterated into English. Transliterate means sound pronunciations.
GOD’s most sacred Holy Name [יהוה] was given to us directly from the Hebrew language.
Correctly translating Hebrew into other languages can be difficult however.
Some basic linguistical rules need to be considered when translating Hebrew texts.
These include a lack of spacing between words, as a general rule has no written vowels
and the basic direction in which Hebrew is written (opposite: from right to left).
Hebrew word spacing is a modern advent that distinguishes one word from the next,
aiding both translators and multi-linguists alike. Unwritten “implied” vowel sounds
are a concern because, correct pronunciations of Hebrew words are at risk.GOD’s Name (יהוה) transliterates directly into English as YHVH because the Hebrew alphabet
lacks vowels. Hebrew has No [W] sound, and No [J] sound; the symbol ש, which looks like a “w” is pronounced “Sh”.[יהוה] GOD’s Name [י] Yod [ה] Ha [ו] Vav [ה] Hey is CORRECTLY pronounced YÄ-hä-vā & [יה] YÄ
Strong’s con. Heb. # 3068, 3069 & 3050 should have been used instead of relying on Wikipedia for your “Truth”!
Dr James Strong was a Bible scholar, Wikipedia Paramount's to hearsay; inadmissible in a court of law.The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63.
Until The Bible is looked at as a whole ‘religious deceptions’ will continue.
1Cor. 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ(the body);
and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God(The Father).Jude 1:4(KJV) reads:
Quote For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:4(NIV) reads:
Quote For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
I find it interesting that there is a significant difference between these two scriptures which The Thinker has pointed to. Which if either is the correct translation.
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