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Thanks brother Theodorej for your positive response on my post. But Jews don't accept Jesus as their Messiah since he did not fulfill any major prophecies of Messiah. In fact there is no concept of second coming for Messiah in Jewish belief neither it is supported by Hebrew Bible.
Thanks and peace to you
AdamQuote (theodorej @ Dec. 14 2010,00:03) Greetings G…. You are absolutely correct in your assertions and the closer we examine the Jewish phenomonon the more evident it becomes that the law has never changed and was never done away with…The first mention of the term Jew showed up in the book of kings…Most modernday christians do not realize that the kingdom of Israel and the kingdom of Judah very often fought with each other…The tribe of Judah to this day still holds the septre right and this will be revealed in the end times when Jesus who is a decendent of the tribe of judah will come to rule as King of Kings and Lord of Lords….The Jews are indeed living proof that the law as so designated by the eternal is for generation to generation even until forever…
Hi Theodore J,Jesus came back in spirit form on “Pentecost”! (Click Here)
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words:
and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them
that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.Here is what Jesus said to the elders, the chief priests and the scribes…
Luke 22:69: Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand
of the power of God. THIS OCCURRED ON PENTECOST DAY!The “HolySpirit” is KING of Kings and LORD of Lords (Click Here)
and he continues to RULE as God in his Kingdom. (Rev.19:11-21)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgSince nobody has given all of the Scriptures that show we are under grace and the new covenant I will.
first the old in
Exd 34:27 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Exd 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY…
Exd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.
Exd 31:17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
God made this covenant the ten commandment with the Children of Israel as a perceptual covenant, meaning forever.
IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN GOD AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.
Now to the new
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.
Jesus then gave us the great commandment in
Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Jesus also magnified the Law and made it Spiritual….Now if you are angry with your brother, you have already committed murder in your hearth.
We are also under grace in
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Rom 4:8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
If any of you want to keep the Sabbath, that is fine. However if you come and say that it is still binding under Sin, then I say you are unjustly judging any that do not keep the Sabbath……
Peace and love IreneTo all,
Laurel brought up these three scriptures on the Jewish Messiah thread and I am repeating them here for us to meditate on.
Quote Exo. 12:49 “There is one Torah for the native-born and for the stranger who sojourns among you.” and
Numbers 15: 14 ‘And when a stranger sojourns with you, or whoever is among you throughout your generations, and would make an offering made by fire, a sweet fragrance to יהוה, as you do, so he does. 15 ‘One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. 16 ‘One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.’ ”
and
Numbers 15: 27 ‘And if a being sins by mistake, then he shall bring a female goat a year old as a sin offering. 28 ‘And the priest shall make atonement for the being who strays by mistake, when he sins by mistake before יהוה, to make atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him. 29 ‘For him who does [whatever] by mistake there is one Torah, both for him who is native among the children of Yisra’ĕl and for the stranger who sojourns in their midst.
30 ‘But the being who does [whatever] defiantly, whether he is native or a stranger, he reviles יהוה, and that being shall be cut off from among his people. 31 ‘Because he has despised the word of יהוה, and has broken His command, that being shall certainly be cut off, his crookedness is upon him.’ ”Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2010,09:46) To all, Laurel brought up these three scriptures on the Jewish Messiah thread and I am repeating them here for us to meditate on.
Quote Exo. 12:49 “There is one Torah for the native-born and for the stranger who sojourns among you.” and
Numbers 15: 14 ‘And when a stranger sojourns with you, or whoever is among you throughout your generations, and would make an offering made by fire, a sweet fragrance to יהוה, as you do, so he does. 15 ‘One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. 16 ‘One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.’ ”
and
Numbers 15: 27 ‘And if a being sins by mistake, then he shall bring a female goat a year old as a sin offering. 28 ‘And the priest shall make atonement for the being who strays by mistake, when he sins by mistake before יהוה, to make atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him. 29 ‘For him who does [whatever] by mistake there is one Torah, both for him who is native among the children of Yisra’ĕl and for the stranger who sojourns in their midst.
30 ‘But the being who does [whatever] defiantly, whether he is native or a stranger, he reviles יהוה, and that being shall be cut off from among his people. 31 ‘Because he has despised the word of יהוה, and has broken His command, that being shall certainly be cut off, his crookedness is upon him.’ ”
Kerwin. that still is the Old covenant God made with Israel. Unless you consider yourself a Jew, for them it is a perpetual covenant, meaning forever. So it also was for the stranger that was among them, that walked among them. Those that did not where among them did not. We however go by the new covenant in Jesus blood, and what Jesus did on the Sermon on the Mount, and the great commandment, it still was only for the Children of Israel, a sign for them……….all Scriptures given..Let me give you an example. Years ago our Son owned a Jewish Bakery, and we did what they did when we walked among them. We went to eat lunch at a Kosher Restaurant. I could not even use a S.O.S. pad to clean in the Bakery. The Rabbi had to turn the Oven on when they had to use it etc.boy am I glad that is over with….
Peace and Love IreneIrene,
I assume by Jew you mean either those descended from Israel or those adopted into that bloodline whether they are Christian or not. If I am correct then I do not believe we are in disagreement.
Ed. J,
The Ten Commandments are part of the everlasting covenant God made with the children of Israel and thus are still binding to the Twelve Tribes and those aliens who journey among them. That covenant was never binding to the Gentiles who lived in their own nations.
The law of God has always existed and is binding to all of God’s creations.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2010,17:17) Irene, I assume by Jew you mean either those descended from Israel or those adopted into that bloodline whether they are Christian or not. If I am correct then I do not believe we are in disagreement.
Hi brother Kerwin,
Paul differs with your views on Laws of God in reference to Jews as perRomans 10:4
“Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.”
and
Gal 3:
23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.So do you think Paul got the approval of Hebrew Bible?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2010,17:18) Ed. J, The Ten Commandments are part of the everlasting covenant God made with the children of Israel and thus are still binding to the Twelve Tribes and those aliens who journey among them. That covenant was never binding to the Gentiles who lived in their own nations.
The law of God has always existed and is binding to all of God’s creations.
Hi Kerwin,Do you really believe “The Law”(the 10 commandments) have no bearing?
Deut.5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
Matt.5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman
to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.Deut.5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
1John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer:
and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.Matt.19:16-19 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master,
what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto
him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
but if thou will enter into life, keep the commandments.
He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt
not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgAdam,
I know that some of Paul’s word’s are hard to understand and his purpose it to convince people to live a righteous life by walking according Holy Spirit and not by using human effort, Galatians 3:3. So the Law did in fact end as far as using human effort to please God as a Jew now has access to living according to the spirit of righteousness and thus fulfilling the righteous requirements of the Law, Romans 8:4.
Paul indeed did give approval of the Old Testament and the Law of Mosses, Romans 7:12 testified within its pages. The Law of God is older than the Law of Mosses and all mankind are called to obey it while only the children of Israel and the Gentile who lived among them are called to obey the Law of Mosses. This is true even under the new covenant as the Jerusalem Council decided in Acts. Paul agrees with their decision and later stated it was nothing he was not already teaching, Galatians 2.
Ed J.
Consider what I have written. If you love your neighbor as yourself in the way God intends then you will keep the righteous requirements of the Law of Mosses. The righteous requirements are not just restricted to the Ten Commandments but also include other laws such as not committing homosexual acts, incest, and more. Some parts of the Law of Mosses are not part of the righteous requirements; such as the Sabbath Day which is a holy day for the Childtren of Israel and the Gentiles that live among them.
To fulfill the Holy Law of Love, which is and has always been the Law of God, one must walk according to the spirit.
In doing so the Law does not apply as you are not violating it.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 15 2010,17:52) Adam, I know that some of Paul’s word’s are hard to understand and his purpose it to convince people to live a righteous life by walking according Holy Spirit and not by using human effort, Galatians 3:3. So the Law did in fact end as far as using human effort to please God as a Jew now has access to living according to the spirit of righteousness and thus fulfilling the righteous requirements of the Law, Romans 8:4.
Paul indeed did give approval of the Old Testament and the Law of Mosses, Romans 7:12 testified within its pages. The Law of God is older than the Law of Mosses and all mankind are called to obey it while only the children of Israel and the Gentile who lived among them are called to obey the Law of Mosses. This is true even under the new covenant as the Jerusalem Council decided in Acts. Paul agrees with their decision and later stated it was nothing he was not already teaching, Galatians 2.
Hi brother Kerwin,
Paul did not have right to change God's Laws which you think as Mosac laws. Moses had not given any Laws to Israel but God alone gave them writing on the tablets of stone. You can see my post on such arguments put forth by a Jew quoting scriptures from Hebrew Bible. Acts differs much with Epistles of Paul on following or not following Law. Author of Acts cleverly nullifies the differences of Paul with Jewish Christians. This is where I cautioned not to be biased in your reading of scriptures. Here are such differences;The Council of Jerusalem: Differences between Paul's and Luke's versions
PAUL (Gal 2:1-10) VsLUKE (Acts 15):
1. When? 14 years after Paul's first visit to the Jerusalem apostles (Gal 2:1a)……In fact he visits immediately after his conversion to see Ananias and also some time after Barnabas & Paul had returned to Antioch from their first missionary journey (Acts 9, 13-14).
2. Paul went with Barnabas, and took Titus along (Gal 2:1b)…..Paul, Barnabas, “and some others” from the Church at Antioch (Acts 15:2).
3. He went in response to a “revelation” (Gal 2:2a)……They were sent by the Antioch Church after some people from Judea had caused a disturbance, preaching the necessity of circumcision (Acts 15:1-3).
4. He presents his gospel “privately to those of repute” (Gal 2:2b)………They are welcomed by and report to the whole Jerusalem Church (Acts 15:4).
5. Titus, a Greek, was not compelled to be circumcised (Gal 2:3).[Paul supposedly has Timothy circumcised “on account of the Jews,” because “all knew that his father was a Greek” – Acts 16:3] ……….Paul refused to submit to “false brothers” who wanted to take away the Gentile converts' freedom and to enslave them (Gal 2:4-5).Some Pharisees insist on the necessity of circumcision and observance of the whole Mosaic law (Acts 15:5).
6. The Christian leaders in Jerusalem made Paul “add nothing” (Gal 2:6)……The apostles & elders long debate the issues, with speeches by Peter and James (Acts 15:6-18); to conclude, James decides they should “stop troubling” the Gentile converts, but also write a letter telling them to avoid idolatry, fornication, meat from strangled animals, and blood (Acts 15:19-21, 28-29).
7. These leaders (James & Cephas & John) recognized that
Paul was sent (by God) to preach to the circircumcised/Gentiles, just as Peter was sent to preach to the circumcised/Jews (Gal 2:7-9)……..[Acts never mentions this division of labor; on the contrary, both Peter & Paul preach to both Jews & Gentiles; see Acts 2; 10–11; 13–14; 15:7; etc.]
8. These “reputed pillars” of the Jerusalem community gave
Paul & Barnabas “their right hands in partnership” (Gal 2:9b)……The Jerusalem leaders send two representatives with Paul & Barnabas to Antioch to deliver their letter, which is gratefully received (Acts 15:22-31).9. The only request: They were “to be mindful of the poor” (Gal 2:10).[Remember the poor is not in Acts 15].
Acts says Jews not barred from following Law of God given to Moses but Paul says Law has no bearing on both Jew and Gentile. Romans 10:4 & Gal 3:19 clearly say Law is not required by Jews which contradicts your own views on this thread. Even Paul contradicted Jesus own views on the Law of God. He preached some strange doctrine, in fact different Gospel than what was preached by Jesus himself. You claim you are more led by God than anybody. Does it justify Paul and yourself?
Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 15 2010,19:39) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 15 2010,17:52) Adam, I know that some of Paul’s word’s are hard to understand and his purpose it to convince people to live a righteous life by walking according Holy Spirit and not by using human effort, Galatians 3:3. So the Law did in fact end as far as using human effort to please God as a Jew now has access to living according to the spirit of righteousness and thus fulfilling the righteous requirements of the Law, Romans 8:4.
Paul indeed did give approval of the Old Testament and the Law of Mosses, Romans 7:12 testified within its pages. The Law of God is older than the Law of Mosses and all mankind are called to obey it while only the children of Israel and the Gentile who lived among them are called to obey the Law of Mosses. This is true even under the new covenant as the Jerusalem Council decided in Acts. Paul agrees with their decision and later stated it was nothing he was not already teaching, Galatians 2.
Hi brother Kerwin,
Paul did not have right to change God's Laws which you think as Mosac laws. Moses had not given any Laws to Israel but God alone gave them writing on the tablets of stone. You can see my post on such arguments put forth by a Jew quoting scriptures from Hebrew Bible. Acts differs much with Epistles of Paul on following or not following Law. Author of Acts cleverly nullifies the differences of Paul with Jewish Christians. This is where I cautioned not to be biased in your reading of scriptures. Here are such differences;The Council of Jerusalem: Differences between Paul's and Luke's versions
PAUL (Gal 2:1-10) VsLUKE (Acts 15):
1. When? 14 years after Paul's first visit to the Jerusalem apostles (Gal 2:1a)……In fact he visits immediately after his conversion to see Ananias and also some time after Barnabas & Paul had returned to Antioch from their first missionary journey (Acts 9, 13-14).
2. Paul went with Barnabas, and took Titus along (Gal 2:1b)…..Paul, Barnabas, “and some others” from the Church at Antioch (Acts 15:2).
3. He went in response to a “revelation” (Gal 2:2a)……They were sent by the Antioch Church after some people from Judea had caused a disturbance, preaching the necessity of circumcision (Acts 15:1-3).
4. He presents his gospel “privately to those of repute” (Gal 2:2b)………They are welcomed by and report to the whole Jerusalem Church (Acts 15:4).
5. Titus, a Greek, was not compelled to be circumcised (Gal 2:3).[Paul supposedly has Timothy circumcised “on account of the Jews,” because “all knew that his father was a Greek” – Acts 16:3] ……….Paul refused to submit to “false brothers” who wanted to take away the Gentile converts' freedom and to enslave them (Gal 2:4-5).Some Pharisees insist on the necessity of circumcision and observance of the whole Mosaic law (Acts 15:5).
6. The Christian leaders in Jerusalem made Paul “add nothing” (Gal 2:6)……The apostles & elders long debate the issues, with speeches by Peter and James (Acts 15:6-18); to conclude, James decides they should “stop troubling” the Gentile converts, but also write a letter telling them to avoid idolatry, fornication, meat from strangled animals, and blood (Acts 15:19-21, 28-29).
7. These leaders (James & Cephas & John) recognized that
Paul was sent (by God) to preach to the circircumcised/Gentiles, just as Peter was sent to preach to the circumcised/Jews (Gal 2:7-9)……..[Acts never mentions this division of labor; on the contrary, both Peter & Paul preach to both Jews & Gentiles; see Acts 2; 10–11; 13–14; 15:7; etc.]
8. These “reputed pillars” of the Jerusalem community gave
Paul & Barnabas “their right hands in partnership” (Gal 2:9b)……The Jerusalem leaders send two representatives with Paul & Barnabas to Antioch to deliver their letter, which is gratefully received (Acts 15:22-31).9. The only request: They were “to be mindful of the poor” (Gal 2:10).[Remember the poor is not in Acts 15].
Acts says Jews not barred from following Law of God given to Moses but Paul says Law has no bearing on both Jew and Gentile. Romans 10:4 & Gal 3:19 clearly say Law is not required by Jews which contradicts your own views on this thread. Even Paul contradicted Jesus own views on the Law of God. He preached some strange doctrine, in fact different Gospel than what was preached by Jesus himself. You claim you are more led by God than anybody. Does it justify Paul and yourself?
Hi Adam,WHEN IMPORTING OPINIONS …YOU ARE REQUIRED TO GIVE THE SOURCE!
http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Paul-Galatians.htm
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi brother Ed J,
There is nothing in my post which required to be given a source.
I have already given verses to support my views.
Peace to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Dec. 16 2010,00:44) Hi brother Ed J,
There is nothing in my post which required to be given a source.
I have already given verses to support my views.
Peace to you
Adam
Hi Adam,It is deceptive for you to pass off someone else's opinion as your own!
Are you denying that ‘you’ cut and pasted that?
Click on the link and scroll down to the white box,
and you will see EXACTLY what you Posted.
You should give credit to the source!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgIt is not deception even you copy and paste Biblical verses. Nothing wrong in borrowing material which supports your views. You can find million on Net. Every time it doesn't require to be given a source if it is of minor nature. IMO
Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 16 2010,01:23) It is not deception even you copy and paste Biblical verses. Nothing wrong in borrowing material which supports your views. You can find million on Net. Every time it doesn't require to be given a source if it is of minor nature. IMO
Hi Adam,For specificity: Why don't explain (for us) when someone
is required to give a source and when you are not; OK?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgKerwin………Even the Sabbath when seen from a spiritual point of view we must keep, i am not talking about the Physical sabbath. This is what i mean. GOD said the sabbath was a (SIGN) between him and his people, so what sign is it . it is the sign of (HOW) our Salvation works, it work by us ceasing from OUR WORKS driven BY our own captivated WILLS, these wills must be put to REST and GOD”S Will must be done in us all. The sabbath was the picture of the process that necessitates salvation. It is just as important in a spiritual sense as any of the other commandments it is eternal and is fulfilled by LOVE for GOD and our fellow man. IMO
peace and love…………………………………….gene
Hi Gene,
It is the 'ego' that MUST be put to death! (Luke 9:23)
Bur our “Free Will” does live on and on! (Joshua 24:15)Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD,
choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods
which your fathers served that were on the other side of the
flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell:
but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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