Laying on of Hands

[NickHassan]

Hi,
This subject has been discussed today.
The implication was of the use of the laying on of hands for anointing men for leadership roles in the church.
Did Peter ever have hands laid on him to be a substitute leader of the church in the place of the Living Lord?
Was he appointed as THE leader or given tasks as a pastor in Jn 21.15f?

[NickHassan]

This is topical.

[NickHassan]

This is topical

[NickHassan]

topical

[NickHassan]

topical

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2006,14:32)

Hi, This subject has been discussed today. The implication was of the use of the laying on of hands for anointing men for leadership roles in the church. Did Peter ever have hands laid on him to be a substitute leader of the church in the place of the Living Lord? Was he appointed as THE leader or given tasks as a pastor in Jn 21.15f?

Hi All:

Unless I have missed something, Jesus did not lay hands on any of the Apostles, but told them not to leave Jerusalem until they received the Holy Ghost.  He did not lay hands on them perhaps because he was baptizing them from on high, but he had taught them and ordained (qualified) them for the ministry.  (Acts ch 1& 2)

It also appears that Christians preached the Word of God, but they called the Apostles or others such as Phillip who were ordained ministers to baptize those who had received the Word of God.  Laying on of the hands was done by the Apostles and or some one ordained by them not just any Christian.  Also, they could lay hands on those that were to receive the Holy Ghost, but in the case of Cornelius the Holy Ghost fell on him and on those who believed the Word of God as the Apostle Peter preached.  (Acts 10:42-45)

As for qualifing someone for the ministry, there was a warning not to lay hands suddenly on any one because by doing so you were qualifying that person for the minstry and if he was not prepared, essentially you were responsible for his sins since you said he was qualified before he actually was.  This instruction was given to Timothy by the Apostle Paul in 1 Ti 5:22.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Not all the apostles laid on hands. Phillip does not seem to have done so.

[Oxy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 09 2004,17:24)

The Bible teaches clearly that we need to be born again of the Holy Spirit. This is one of the basic teachings of our faith as outlined in Heb 6.2. It is also clear that this was imparted usually by the Laying on of Hands by fellow believers Acts 8.17,9.17,19.6,. Why is it not part of your salvation teaching? God chose to pour out His Spirit without human agency too as at Jesus's baptism,Acts 2.2,!0.47. Hands were also laid on christians for specific purposes.

Hi, Salvation is not received through the laying on of hands. It is a free gift, there for the asking upon repentance. The Holy Spirit was given through the laying on of hands, although the laying on of hands isn't the only way the Holy Spirit can be received.

[NickHassan]

topical

[NickHassan]

4 mk

[meerkat]

I believe that the laying on of hands was a symbol of something that was spiritual, and that to some it has been elevated to a requirement and ritual, where it is originally only a symbol not to become an ordinance.

Nick will disagree with this but I believe that that is what happened in the Catholic church with baptism, eucharist, communion, etc

Passages seem to say that ordinances were only required until Christ Eph 2:15 Col 2:20 Heb 9

but somehow new physical ordinances replaced the old.

Notice Heb 9:8-12

Quote

Hbr 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Hbr 9:9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Hbr 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings]/b], and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation. Hbr 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Hbr 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us]. Hbr 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

Nick, notice that the word for washings is G909
βαπτισμός
baptismos
bap-tis-mos'
From G907; ablution (ceremonially or Christian): – baptism, washing.

Which is described as a carnal ordinance only applicable while the old temple is still standing – the old temple stood until 70AD so baptism was still done until final judgement was completed and the temple destroyed.

[NickHassan]

Hi mk,
Acts 8
14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

But also
Lk11
11If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

[meerkat]

Yes Nick – we will receive the Holy Spirit when we ask (repent) the ritual does nothing – the first temple with physical ordinances has been destroyed 70AD

[meerkat]

To be baptised you need to go to a institutional church to receive that rite and you need to imbibe their doctrine to be made ready to received the rite – the mark of the beast – no can buy or sell unless has the mark – beliefs (forehead) rituals (hands)??

[meerkat]

Acts was before 70AD – they were transitioning

[GeneBalthrop]

meerkat…..Amen sis, there truly was and is, a difference between (Spiritual things) and (Carnal things) or Commandments. John the Baptist Knew that when He said to Jesus “I have need to be Baptised BY YOU”. He was referencing the baptism of fire/spirit. The baptism of Christ is what counts.

love and peace to you and yours………………..gene

[NickHassan]

Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 15 2008,09:52)

Yes Nick – we will receive the Holy Spirit when we ask (repent)  the ritual does nothing – the first temple with physical ordinances has been destroyed  70AD

Hi mk,
Is this written?
Acts is eternally true and does not show this order.

[meerkat]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 15 2008,10:35)

Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 15 2008,09:52) Yes Nick – we will receive the Holy Spirit when we ask (repent) the ritual does nothing – the first temple with physical ordinances has been destroyed 70AD Hi mk, Is this written? Acts is eternally true and does not show this order.

Read Hebrews 9:8-13 and tell me what you think it is saying exactly, specially when it says that “washings” are carnal ordinances.

There are other scriptures that says we are under the grace of God and not bound to the Law and ordinances – that we have freedom.

[NickHassan]

Hi mk,
Heb 9
8The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

So hebrews is speaking of the OT which was in force till the time of John.
No direct relevance to the washings of the NT.

Lk16
16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Now we enter the kingdom by water and the Spirit.
Jn3
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

[meerkat]

It says while the first tabernacle was still standing and it was still standing UNTIL 70AD

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