- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Dirtyknections wrote:
Quote Have you ever seen this happen?
Again you fail to understand reason. Since you cannot prove that anything is real but your own thought process you cannot prove what you see is real. So why does it care what I have witnessed as my perception of the reality of what I see is based on my faith that it is real.
Dirtyknections wrote:
Quote Yet you have faith that this will happen…without having ever seen this?
I choose to put my faith in quite a bit that I have not experienced firsthand. For instance I do not jump off a plane 2 miles in the air to find out if I will really spatter as I have been told and consider myself wise for not experiencing that event first hand.
I choose to put my faith in God because His command to love yourself and your neighbor is good for me and not ill just like not jumping out of that plane without a parachute is good for me and not ill.
The dead are recorded as coming back to life. It is called the Lazarus syndrome. The accounts I read are of them being briefly dead well short of the time Jesus was dead. It does not care since with sufficient power and knowledge, which God has in plenty, the dead can be raised to life. Or don’t you believe in the miracles accomplished by technology.
Quote (SEEKING @ Feb. 28 2009,01:03) These passages hold much meaning for me – If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. (1C0r.13:1-8)
Seeking,Love is patient…..yes. I love this!!
I am especially grateful that God knows our hearts. If we continue to love Him, he will help us love each other.
Thank you for your constant encouragement!
Love,
MandyQuote (dirtyknections @ Feb. 28 2009,02:09) Lemme give you an easy to follow example…you are married correct….Well say your husband tells you that he loves you.. then he goes about doing NOTHING to prove it…he just says have “Faith” that I do….or as the bible says “hope for it, tho not beholding it”
Would your “faith” that he loves you be able to sustain you…or would action on his part have to be involved in order to provide you with the “proof” which conversely provides you with the “knowledge” of his love….
be needed to sustain you, and assure you?
DK,I had to kind of laugh at your example…. You may not be aware that my husband and I are having some problems right now. We're working on them, and I have seen some tremendous giving on both of our parts. Love will prevail.
But I have had to take his love for me on faith many a time!! So that is why I laughed at your example.
I believe in faith. I love faith. Faith gets me by…helps me hang on….gives me hope. I dig faith. I guess I don't need a ton of proof, ya know? I have that “thing” in my soul…call it whatever you wish….the “still, small voice” whatever….that let's me know I am His. I know God is there. I just don't hear Him right now. For me, there seems to be nothing out there right now……I've wondered if I've made the whole bloody thing up….but I know in my heart that that is not true.
God is true. I have faith, even if it is very tiny right now. Tiny faith is still faith.
I've been told that it only takes a little faith….
I pray that yours is restored, if need be.Love you,
MandyQuote (Gene @ Feb. 28 2009,03:05) Mandy………..Your love and Reliance on God is Known by Him, and is far more important then Scripture Knowledge
Thanks, Gene.I have to rely on my love for God, and for simple faith (albeit wavering at the moment). As much as I have studied, I've never received any huge revelation or deep insight. Perhaps there is a reason. Whatever the case may be…..I'll be content bringing the chips and dip for now.
Much love,
MandyMandy……….Your going to be fine , i know that in my Heart, Your understanding and Honesty is a great encouragement to us all Sis.
love and peace to you and yours………………………………………….gene
Hi texas,
As gentiles we have never been under the OT law.Rom3
19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.Hi,
You cannot walk in the law of freedom of the Spirit, the law of love, if you hope for salvation by obedience to every detail of the OT law.
That Law was given to the Jews and not the gentiles.
The essence of the OT law was also love.I was reading the Law today and I discovered that it does in part apply to Gentiles. In the NIV they are refers to as “Aliens” while the KJV refers to them as “strangers”.
Don't forget Jesus claimed not one stitch would be removed from the law until heaven and earth disappear.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 17 2009,15:12) I was reading the Law today and I discovered that it does in part apply to Gentiles. In the NIV they are refers to as “Aliens” while the KJV refers to them as “strangers”. Don't forget Jesus claimed not one stitch would be removed from the law until heaven and earth disappear.
YupHi K,
So the strangers among the Jewish people who submitted themselves to the Law became as one with the chosen people.
But of course that is the very much exception and not the rule.
Those without Law perished without that Law.
Jesus is salvation for Jew and gentileQuote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2009,09:36) Gene said: Quote Notice the definite articles are not in the original Greek translations. This does greatly alter the texts, because the Definite Article is specific to a set of Laws (the ten commandments) but when it is removed, then Law by it self is in a general sense and means the way law works and law works through forced compliance through the medium of fear of the consequences of disobedience to it. Fear gives the law its power and if a person is driven to obey through fear they are not made right in their heart, they can have an outward appearance of righteousness, but inwardly are not right and therefore are not Justified before GOD. I believe this is what Paul was driving at. It had nothing to do with the Ten Commandments being done away with at all but just they (WAY) we Keep them. IMO Brother Gene,
Don't get too tripped up about the presence or absence of definite articles. Paul was saying that we cannot be justified by any law including the ten commandments.Quote Tell me you who desire to be justified under law (no definite article), do you not hear the law? (Gal. 4:21) The definite article in the first part of the statement is absent. But in the second part of the statement the article is present. And we know that Paul was referring to the law which came from Sinai,
Quote For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage….(4:24) The Mosaic code in its entirety has been abolished in reference to our justification before God.
Then Paul goes on to say that circumcision has been abolished which was pre-Sinai (5:11). Therefore, all law whether Sinatic or pre-Sinatic has been abolished. We are not under any of the old covenant dispensations today. We are under grace!
thinker
So these these commandments are abolished, destroyed, put away, no longer in use, not required?G-d
1] To know that G-d exists (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6).
2] Not to entertain the idea that there is any god but the Eternal (Ex. 20:3).
3] Not to blaspheme (Ex. 22:27; in Christian texts, Ex. 22:28), the penalty for which is death (Lev. 24:16).
4] To hallow G-d's name (Lev. 22:32).
5] Not to profane G-d's name (Lev. 22:32).
6] To know that G-d is One (Deut. 6:4).
7] To love G-d (Deut. 6:5).
8] To fear Him reverently (Deut. 6:13; 10:20).
9] Not to put the word of G-d to the test (Deut. 6:16).
10] To imitate His good and upright ways (Deut. 28:9).Torah
11] To honor the old and the wise (Lev. 19:32).
12] To learn Torah and to teach it (Deut. 6:7).
13] To cleave to those who know Him (Deut. 10:20).
14] Not to add to the commandments of the Torah, whether in the Written Law or in its interpretation received by tradition (Deut. 13:1).
15] Not to take away from the commandments of the Torah (Deut. 13:1).
16] That every person shall write a scroll of the Torah for himself (Deut. 31:19).Signs and Symbols
17] To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3).
18] To put tzitzit on the corners of clothing (Num. 15:38).
19] To bind tefillin on the head (Deut. 6:8).
20] To bind tefillin on the arm (Deut. 6:8).
21] To affix the mezuzah to the doorposts and gates of your house (Deut. 6:9).Prayer and Blessings
22] To pray to G-d (Ex. 23:25; Deut. 6:13).
23] To read the Shema in the morning and at night (Deut. 6:7).
24] To recite grace after meals (Deut. 8:10).
25] Not to lay down a stone for worship (Lev. 26:1).Love and Brotherhood
26] To love all human beings who are of the covenant (Lev. 19:18).
27] Not to stand by idly when a human life is in danger (Lev. 19:16).
28] Not to wrong any one in speech (Lev. 25:17).
29] Not to carry tales (Lev. 19:16).
30] Not to cherish hatred in one's heart (Lev. 19:17).
31] Not to take revenge (Lev. 19:18).
32] Not to bear a grudge (Lev. 19:18).
33] Not to put any Jew to shame (Lev. 19:17).
34] Not to curse any other Israelite (Lev. 19:14) (by implication: if you may not curse those who cannot hear, you certainly may not curse those who can).
35] Not to give occasion to the simple-minded to stumble on the road (Lev. 19:14) (this includes doing anything that will cause another to sin).
36] To rebuke the sinner (Lev. 19:17).
37] To relieve a neighbor of his burden and help to unload his beast (Ex. 23:5).
38]To assist in replacing the load upon a neighbor's beast (Deut. 22:4).
39] Not to leave a beast, that has fallen down beneath its burden, unaided (Deut. 22:4).Hi CON.
They have not been abolished but they were never given to gentiles who could have expected the wrath of God.
They still exist and the Jews can still choose to seek righteousness by obedience to them but sadly to no avail.
They have become impossible to fulfill perfectly now and perfection is the only standard God will accept[Jas].No people have now become My people
So these commandments are abolished, destroyed, put away, no longer in use, not required?
The Poor and Unfortunate
40] Not to afflict an orphan or a widow (Ex. 22:21).
41] Not to reap the entire field (Lev. 19:9; Lev. 23:22).
42] To leave the unreaped corner of the field or orchard for the poor (Lev. 19:9).
43] Not to gather gleanings (the ears that have fallen to the ground while reaping) (Lev. 19:9).
44] To leave the gleanings for the poor (Lev. 19:9).
45] Not to gather ol'loth (the imperfect clusters) of the vineyard (Lev. 19:10).
46] To leave ol'loth (the imperfect clusters) of the vineyard for the poor (Lev. 19:10; Deut. 24:21).
47] Not to gather the peret (grapes) that have fallen to the ground (Lev. 19:10).
48] To leave peret (the single grapes) of the vineyard for the poor (Lev. 19:10).
49] Not to return to take a forgotten sheaf (Deut. 24:19) This applies to all fruit trees (Deut. 24:20).
50] To leave the forgotten sheaves for the poor (Deut. 24:19-20).
51] Not to refrain from maintaining a poor man and giving him what he needs (Deut. 15:7). Charity.
52] To give charity according to one's means (Deut. 15:11). Charity.Treatment of Gentiles
53] To love the stranger (Deut. 10:19).
54] Not to wrong the stranger in speech (Ex. 22:20).
55] Not to wrong the stranger in buying or selling (Ex. 22:20).
56] Not to intermarry with gentiles (Deut. 7:3).
57] To exact the debt of an alien (Deut. 15:3).
58] To lend to an alien at interest (Deut. 23:21) According to tradition, this is mandatory.Marriage, Divorce and Family
59] To honor father and mother (Ex. 20:12).
60] Not to smite a father or a mother (Ex. 21:15).
61] Not to curse a father or mother (Ex. 21:17).
62] To reverently fear father and mother (Lev. 19:3).
63] To be fruitful and multiply (Gen. 1:28).
64] That a eunuch shall not marry a daughter of Israel (Deut. 23:2).
65] That a mamzer shall not marry the daughter of a Jew (Deut. 23:3).
66] That an Ammonite or Moabite shall never marry the daughter of an Israelite (Deut. 23:4).
67] Not to exclude a descendant of Esau from the community of Israel for three generations (Deut. 23:8-9).
68] Not to exclude an Egyptian from the community of Israel for three generations (Deut. 23:8-9).
69] That there shall be no harlot (in Israel); that is, that there shall be no intercourse with a woman, without previous marriage with a deed of marriage and formal declaration of marriage (Deut. 23:18).
70] To take a wife by kiddushin, the sacrament of marriage (Deut. 24:1).
71] That the newly married husband shall (be free) for one year to rejoice with his wife (Deut. 24:5).
72] That a bridegroom shall be exempt for a whole year from taking part in any public labor, such as military service, guarding the wall and similar duties (Deut. 24:5).
73] Not to withhold food, clothing or conjugal rights from a wife (Ex. 21:10).
74] That the woman suspected of adultery shall be dealt with as prescribed in the Torah (Num. 5:30).
75] That one who defames his wife's honor (by falsely accusing her of unchastity before marriage) must live with her all his lifetime (Deut. 22:19).
76] That a man may not divorce his wife concerning whom he has published an evil report (about her unchastity before marriage) (Deut. 22:19).
77] To divorce by a formal written document (Deut. 24:1).
78] That one who divorced his wife shall not remarry her, if after the divorce she had been married to another man (Deut. 24:4).
79] That a widow whose husband died childless must not be married to anyone but her deceased husband's brother (Deut. 25:5)(this is only in effect insofar as it requires the procedure of release below).
80] To marry the widow of a brother who has died childless (Deut. 25:5) (this is only in effect insofar as it requires the procedure of release below).
81]That the widow formally release the brother-in-law (if he refuses to marry her) (Deut. 25:7-9).Getting the idea?
Hi CON,
Were these appointed to you in the first covenant?
Are you among the Israelite people?The law of love was also written originally on the heart as some gentiles still manifest that law.[Rom2.14]
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote They have become impossible to fulfill perfectly now and perfection is the only standard God will accept
Do you believe a person can walk according to the ways of the Holy Spirit?
I ask because if you do then you do perfectly fulfill the law. That is real clear from scripture.
Hi K,
To walk humbly with your God…
The will of God is not complicated or difficult.
Just ask every day and He will use you in little ways you don't even realise.To All………..(The) Laws of GOD is being referenced because of the (DEFINITE ARTICLE)(the) identifies it as (the ten commandments) and are Spiritual, are not done away with, If they are (Written) on our hearts then how are the done away with. The whole Problem is in understanding what the Apostle Paul was saying, Paul viewed (LAW) as a forced set of rules and Behaviors on People as shown when GOD Codified them on tables of Stone.
This whole thing was a symbolized act of GOD (forcing) his will on Stone Hard (Hearts) as He wrote them on (tables of Stone). This took pressure to accomplish and that is exactly what God did , He applied pressure and forced obedience (LAW). When a man insomuch as gathered wood on the Sabbath day He was ordered BY GOD to stone Him to death and (FEAR) Struck them all.
Exo 20:19…> And they said unto Moses Speak thou unto Us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us least we die. 20…> And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for GOD is come to prove you, and that his (FEAR) may be before your face, that you sin not.
This (FEAR) force caused them to modify their behavior, but never really changed their hearts. While Fear is a deterrent it never changes the heart, In fact this fear obedience turns to (self) righteousness, and even becomes a worse problem. Paul This fear was forced a form of righteousness (outward) but never really changed one inside. Therefore Paul said BY WORKS (OF LAW) (forced compliance) Shall (NO) flesh be justified before GOD, Why? BECAUSE FORCING SOMEONE TO DO SOMETHING NEVER MEANS HE REALLY WANTS TO DO IT.
So GOD took it upon Himself to recreate His Children by renewing their Hearts, “For i will take out of you the Heart of STONE and give you a Heart of Flesh, (soft and pliable Heart) and write my laws (commandments ) on your heart. So true righteousness is a creation of GOD HIMSELF and (NO) man can recreate HIMSELF it Must be done by GOD HIMSELF. “FOR YOU HAVE BEEN CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS” and again “for He (GOD) works in us Both to (WILL) and do HIS good PLEASURE. True Righteousness is a creation of GOD there is (NO) way we can achieve it by obeying any laws on our own. God does not do away with his commandments He writer them in our Hearts by taking the HARDNESS out and replacing it with SOFTNESS. It all a work of GOD from the start to the finish Folks. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………gene
Gene,
You can fear God because he is more powerful than you or you can fear the results of disobeying him because what he commands is right and the result of disobeying him is harmful to you. The second is the fear God wants as Satan is also more powerful than you.
Kerwin, (FEAR) has nothing to do with it, LOVE DOES, no one is made perfect in fear, for fear has torment, Haven't you read this, and again we have (NOT) come unto that mountain to FEAR as They did. and again, For we have not recieved the spirit of fear , BUT of LOVE and POWER and of a SOUND MIND. Kerwin no one is made right in fear. We are created Right by GOD HIMSELF. The carnal mind fears GOD, but we are commander to LOVE the LORD our GOD, not fear HIM. “NOTHING IS PERFECT IN FEAR'. AND AGAIN LOVE (CAST OUT) FEAR. So why cast it in, Fear also hinders true FAITH, ” for the fearful and unbelieving will have their part in the lake of fire', Fearful people (ARE) unbelieving or they would not be so fearful, I am not saying we should not have reverence and respect for our Heavenly Father, My earthly Father could get angry at me at times, but i never feared HIM , no quite the opposite I loved Him very much with all my heart. I feel the same way about my HEAVENLY FATHER ALSO. David said thy ROD (of correction) and they STAFF (of support) DOTH COMFORT ME. Think about it Kerwin. Why would you fear some one who want to save you and give you eternal life anyway? GOD the FATHER want a real relationship with us as HIS CHILDREN. And if He has to discipline us or even Scourge US so be it, it only is Showing HIS LOVE for US. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
