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Constitutionalist ,
I was trying to see why the different reaction of believers to Gentile coverts to Judaism as compared to Gentiles that had not converted to Judaism when either decided to become disciples of the Anointed One.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 06 2009,19:53) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 05 2009,20:46) Irene……….The issue here is Not the covenant, it is what is LAW, a LAW is (NOT) a Covenant , a covenant is a agreement, a law is Used for the enforcement of the agreement. Law works through the power to extract a penalty, for violating it. It is exactly the same as our present Law in our country, Our laws are not covenants the are laws and if you violate them then a penalty is extracted from you, even to the point of death penalties is need be. Irene You keep running into all kinds of things that is missing the subject of (LAW) NOT COVENANTS (A LAW) IS (NOT) A COVENANT. LAW is a requirement and is not arbitrary by those it is forced upon. The ten commandments were turned in to (LAW) when Penalties were enforced on the violators of them. This forced compliance is what Paul was talking about by saying the (WORKS OF LAW) another words Law works, but a person is not made right by the way LAW WORKS. This is Paul's point when saying “no flesh shall be (justified) before GOD by (WORKS) OF THE LAW,” Get it, law produces a obedience to the commandments but not the right way, because the heart of the person is still the same even if they are (obeying the commandments by fear that comes through the WORKS of LAW. As i said before we are not made right by (works of Law) but by the Works of GOD'S Spirit which changes our hearts and minds to Naturally do the commandments of GOD. SO then the commandments are not done away with at all, but fulfilled by the Spirit of GOD, This is a creation process that only GOD himself can perform in Us, by his Spirit. But it is never against his commandments. IMO
peace and love to you and Georg………………………..gene
Gene, I understand exactly what your'e saying, it is pretty simple knowing the difference between the two.
Gene you don't understand or don't want to understand is that the Ten Commandments is the Law. And that Law is the Ten Commandments. The Sabbath is a sign between the Children of Israel and God. You don't understand that Jesus fulfilled that Law and magnified it on the Sermon on the Mount and made it Holy. Paul tells is in Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day above another, another esteems every day alike. Let each be convinced in His own mind,
I have convinced in my mind that every day to me is to the LORD, because I have God”s Holy Spirit in me, and I am the Temple of God. That is what Scripture has told me.
You CA especially have been rather unkind to me, and to me you are judging me. If you want to keep the Old Covenant Law, that is up to you, but don't through your weight around and think you know it all. Making long post, that I know not all read.
I consider myself under grace by Faith, and salvation is a gift from God, so nobody can boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9-10
Gene you think that the Ten Commandments is not a Covenant, and you are wrong.
Do you even read Exodus 34:27-28
verse 28 So He was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights, he neither ate bread or drank water, And He wrote on the tablets the words OF THE COVENANT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. You believe that the Ten Commandments is the Law, but yet deny that it is also a covenant that God made with Israel. I am giving you the Law. In Leviticus 27:34 tells you that it is the Law that God gave to the children of Israel, on Mount Sinai. All the ordinances etc; are listed there.
Also Galatia 5:3 And i testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole Law.
verse 4 You have been stranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law;'you have fallen fom grace.
If you read on Paul tells us that we are in Christ.
In Galatians4:23-26 tells us of the two covennts(I know you don't think a covenant is the Law,but it is) PLease read it.
Peace and Love Irene
CA since you read my Post, I want ot say to you, you don't like when Nick comes inbetween you and others, but you have done the some to me,and I don't appreciate your negative statements.
Peace nd Love IreneIrene………If covenant and Law are the same thing why have the two words then. A covenant is a agreement between two or more persons. A law is the (enforcement) of that covenant. You see they are (NOT) the same thing. Paul was addressing (LAW) and How it worked (BY WORKS) OF LAW, He was not addressing the ten commandments themself but how the were inforced . Basically saying by forcing a person to obey by a LAW, he would (NOT) be (JUSTIFIED) before GOD. Paul was (NOT) addressing if we should Keep the commandments or NOT. That was not HIS POINT. His Point was (HOW) we Keep them , not if we should or not Keep them. That is all my point was.
peace and love to you and Georg……………………….gene
terrarica………Law is the (enforcement) of the covenant The ten commandments were turned into LAW by the act of enforcement, and attached to the covenant, The commandment became the terms of the covenant. And the Law added to it became its enforcement. Law is (NOT) law without enforcement. Because it would have no power unless it was enforced. So the Law was the enforcement of the covenant.
IMO
peace and love……………gene
Yall are arguing over semantics now…
If you want to keep the “Law”..fine there is nothing to say that you can't..so as long as you don't judge as “wrong” those who don't…As long as you remember that “Grace” and More importantly “LOVE & Faith”…are ultimately what we live by…
Paul spoke about those who “wanted to be under Law”..
Galatians 4… 21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written:
“Be glad, O barren woman,
who bears no children;
break forth and cry aloud,
you who have no labor pains;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son.”[c] 31Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.
Why you would want to be under the burden of the Law…i don't know
James 2:10 (New International Version)10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
jUST SOMETHING ELSE TO CONSIDER
DK…..The subject Paul is addressing is not if we should keep the commandments or not it is (HOW) we keep them , is it like a slave who is (forced) to obey his master, or is it through a desire to do right by the effectual working of the Spirit of GOD. For the Gentiles who have (NOT) the LAW, but do the things contained in them, are showing the (LAW ) of GOD written on there Heart (BY) the hand of GOD. So are the laws (commandments) of GOD done away with (NO) they are keep in a different and living way. Paul's issue was (HOW) they are Kept not if we should keep them. One is by the way Law (WORKS) forced compliance (like slavery) they other by a new and living way through the spirit of GOD. But we still keep the commandments of GOD. Paul plainly said “what do we nullify the law then, GOD forbid we (ESTABLISH) it”> IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 20 2009,02:50) DK…..The subject Paul is addressing is not if we should keep the commandments or not it is (WHO) we keep them , is it laike a slave who is (forced) to obey his master, or is it through a desire to do right by the effectual working of the Spirit of GOD. For the Gentiles who have (NOT) the LAW, but do the things contained in them, are showing the (LAW ) of GOD written on there Heart (BY) the hand of GOD. Sp are the laws (commandments) of GOD done away with (NO) they are keep in a different and living way. Pauls issue was (HOW) the are Kept not that they were done away with. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
i agree..again…its semantics..we are saying the same thing at the core…….As the bible says, “the was a tutor”
Now we should be able to “Live” the law..not be subject to it…its impossible to keep all to the letter anyway..that was the point of it
DK………Sorry for the errors i have edited and corrected the spelling and add so to it.
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Quote (dirtyknections @ Nov. 19 2009,07:53) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 20 2009,02:50) DK…..The subject Paul is addressing is not if we should keep the commandments or not it is (WHO) we keep them , is it laike a slave who is (forced) to obey his master, or is it through a desire to do right by the effectual working of the Spirit of GOD. For the Gentiles who have (NOT) the LAW, but do the things contained in them, are showing the (LAW ) of GOD written on there Heart (BY) the hand of GOD. Sp are the laws (commandments) of GOD done away with (NO) they are keep in a different and living way. Pauls issue was (HOW) the are Kept not that they were done away with. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
i agree..again…its semantics..we are saying the same thing at the core…….As the bible says, “the was a tutor”
Now we should be able to “Live” the law..not be subject to it…its impossible to keep all to the letter anyway..that was the point of it
Why is it “impossible”? Did not the Messiah show that it in fact could be kept? Is it not a defeatist view saying you cannot do something, especially something as simple loving Yahweh and fellow man with all thy heart, might, mind and strength?When the Messiah stated go and sin no more, was he joling?
John 5:14 Afterward Yeshua HaMoshiach findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Sin is and always will be Repugnant to Yahweh:
Gen 6:6,7; Num 22:32; Deu 25:16; 32:19; 2Sa 11:27; 1Ki 14:22; Psa 5:4-6; 10:3; 11:5; 78:59; 95:10; 106:40; Pro 3:32; 6:16-19; 11:20; 15:8,9,26; 21:27; Isa 43:24; Jer 25:7; 44:4,21,22; Hab 1:13; Zec 8:17; Luk 16:15; Rev 2:6,15
Sin is and always will be Repugnant to Righteous People:
Gen 39:7-9; Deu 7:26; Job 1:1; 21:16; 22:18; Psa 26:5,9; 84:10; 101:3,4,7; 119:104,113,128,163; 120:2,5-7; 139:19-22; Pro 18:13; 29:27; Jer 9:2; Rom 7:15,19,23,24; 2Pe 2:7,8; Jud 1:23; Rev 2:2
So are you a repugnant thing to your brethren and Yahweh?
Sin separates from Yahweh:
Deu 31:17,18; Jos 7:12; 2Ch 24:20; Job 13:24; 23:3,8,9; Psa 78:59-61; Isa 59:1,2; 64:7; Eze 23:18; Hsa 9:12; Amo 3:2,3; Mic 3:4; Mat 7:23; 25:41; Luk 13:27; Rom 8:7; Hbr 12:14
Sin:
Is the Transgression of the Law 1Jo 3:4
Is of the Devil 1Jo 3:8; Jhn 8:44
Whatever Is Not of Faith Is Rom 14:23, so you have no faith?
If you are a saint:
Made free from Rom 6:18
Dead to Rom 6:2,11; 1Pe 2:24
Profess to have ceased from 1Pe 4:1
Cannot live in 1Jo 3:9; 5:18
Resolve against Job 34:32
The Word of 'Elohim Keeps From Psa 17:4; 119:11
To refrain from sinning is not impossible.
Nothing is impossible with the Lord.
But if you do sin it can be dealt with.
Hi,
Do we really know what sin is?
In the psalms we pray for forgiveness of our UNKNOWN sins.But is RELEVANT sin not also defined Jn16.8-9?
Studying ourselves too much can be an unhealthy habit.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 19 2009,18:25) Hi,
Do we really know what sin is?
In the psalms we pray for forgiveness of our UNKNOWN sins.But is RELEVANT sin not also defined Jn16.8-9?
Studying ourselves too much can be an unhealthy habit.
Sins of CommissionSinful actions
Violating God's law (Ex 20:1-17)
Sinful words
Corrupt talk, filthy talk, foolish talk, jesting, cursing (Mt 12:36,37, Eph 4:29, Eph 5:4, Col 3:8, Jas 3:10)
Gossip, slander, lying (Ex 20:16 9th commandment, Ps 101:5, Pr 10:18, Pr 17:9, Rev 22:15)
Sinful attitudes (Jer 6:19)
Lust is adultery. (Mt 5:28, 2Pe 2:14)
Hatred is murder. (1Jn 3:11-15) (compare Lev 19:17,18, Mt 5:43-48, Gal 5:19-21)
Coveting (Ex 20:17 10th commandment)
Sins of Omission
Sins of omission (1Sa 12:23, Mt 25:14-30, Jas 4:17)
Nick……….I have heard it said Sin simply means to miss the Mark of GOD. One thing for sure it is a killer and does stock everyone like a lion stocking it prey. It can sneak in easily through lusts (in ordinate desires) and Pride, God said Sin Crouched at CAIN'S Door (of his heart),seeking to devour him, and that he must master it. God help us all to master this deadly thing that can and seeks to destory us. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
hi nick
it does not matter how many laws there are Christ sumup in two,if you can come up with anything wath would not be included in those two commendement ,
please let me know it willbe inlightning to meHi,
Their resurrection is described in Ez 37.
Dying bereft of the Spirit they are raised alive in the Spirit to also fulfill Jl2, Is 59, 60, 65 etcTo all………the word (LAW) simply put, means (FORCED COMPLIANCE) and works through the medium of FEAR, and (NO ONE) will be JUSTIFIED before GOD by OBEDIENCE brought about by the (WORKS) of LAW (the way law works). That is clearly Paul's POINT. Forced compliance (working of law) can not change a person Heart and therefore is not acceptable to GOD for Justification. IMO
peace and love to all……………….gene
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